Yamato 1/60 YF-21 News & Pics

[Scream Man]

im trying to decide if Ill display with the FP's or not. i love the gunpod design, but have never liked the plane with the add ons.

[Kyp Durron]

I think the FP's look fantastic on it in fighter mode, that's how I'm going to display it.

-Kyp

[Maximiria]

When it's sitting on a shelf or in a display case WHO IS GONNA SEE THE BOTTOM OF THE PLANE?! That's right! No-One! Two out of three modes have to look inaccurate just so the LEAST VISIBLE AREA area of one mode can look better? The sacrifice has been too great, especially when you consider the legs are the most critical area for a free-standing poseable figure. The legs should be approximately 1/3 thicker to make it anime/line-art accurate, some scenes and art show the legs TWICE as thick as the world hobby photos I think yamato really could have tried harder on this one I'm not talking about making the fighter _noticeably_ thicker, just that a better compromise could have been made.

*sigh* oh well it's too late now.

[eugimon]

When it's sitting on a shelf or in a display case WHO IS GONNA SEE THE BOTTOM OF THE PLANE?! That's right! No-One! Two out of three modes have to look inaccurate just so the LEAST VISIBLE AREA area of one mode can look better? The sacrifice has been too great, especially when you consider the legs are the most critical area for a free-standing poseable figure. The legs should be approximately 1/3 thicker to make it anime/line-art accurate, some scenes and art show the legs TWICE as thick as the world hobby photos I think yamato really could have tried harder on this one I'm not talking about making the fighter _noticeably_ thicker, just that a better compromise could have been made.

*sigh* oh well it's too late now.

sorry dude, most of us display our valks on stands and the yf-21 is coming with its own stand. And the whole point of a valk is that it is a realistic fighter that turns into a robot, not the other way around. It makes no sense to have an uber cool bot mode that turns into a box with wings in the macross aesthetic. That's fine if that's what you're into, gundam and transformers do a fine job of make robots that transform into approximations of planes. But macross is the only franchise that makes realistic planes.

Besides, you really need to take anime magic into consideration. The animators distort proportions for artistic effect, and those flubs and tweaks just would not work out in real life. The arms on the vf-1 magically got shorter and fatter, the yf-19 magically got wide and stocky all the pre Mac 0 valks magically get thicker legs, not just the yf-21. There are just real world limitations when it comes to translating 2D drawings into 3D objects.

[kensei]

I understand about what you are saying that no one looks at the bottom of the toy, but overall the thicker legs will make the fighter "fatter," and that is what makes is look ridiculous in fighter mode from all angles, not just the bottom, while looking cool in Battroid mode.

What Yamato have done, is create a compromise between both. Personally I myself still hate the smallish wings, but to make them any bigger would distort the shape of the fighter.

Oh well off to work now.

Edited December 27, 2007 by kensei

[Swoosh]

Like this?

[Maximiria]

I hear what you guys are saying but having a transformable figure that looks bad in B and G mode, so bad that everyone will probably display it as a fighter, defeats the purpose of making it variable in the first place.

[David Hingtgen]

If you want a stockier Battroid, then pick up one of the many cheap, used, first or second release Yamato YF-21's. They were sold off by all the people who want a skinnier fighter. There's no need to compromise, buy the version you want. But there will never be one that matches the anime. The YF-21 actually has the most anime magic by far if you really analyze it, surpassing even the YF-21 or most Transformers™ in how much stuff "magically" appears or disappears when transforming.

[eugimon]

I hear what you guys are saying but having a transformable figure that looks bad in B and G mode, so bad that everyone will probably display it as a fighter, defeats the purpose of making it variable in the first place.

please, stop twisting what we're saying so that it fits your narrow definition of what looks good. Also, your insistance of relative size of the legs is pretty much your impression only. Most of the shots in M+ show the legs as being decidedly less robust than the yf-19s and many of the shots are in force percpective with the camera looking up at the mech from below, so of course the legs will look beefy.

Most of us are pretty happy with how it looks in battroid and gerwalk mode. As for defeating the purpose of making it variable... no sir, that's what you keep saying. Making a valkyrie that doesn't have a believable fighter mode just makes it a transformer.

[Maximiria]

please, stop twisting what we're saying so that it fits your narrow definition of what looks good. Also, your insistance of relative size of the legs is pretty much your impression only. Most of the shots in M+ show the legs as being decidedly less robust than the yf-19s and many of the shots are in force percpective with the camera looking up at the mech from below, so of course the legs will look beefy.

Most of us are pretty happy with how it looks in battroid and gerwalk mode. As for defeating the purpose of making it variable... no sir, that's what you keep saying. Making a valkyrie that doesn't have a believable fighter mode just makes it a transformer.

Well you can keep justifying your future purchase to yourself if you want, whatever helps you sleep at night. But please don't pretend to be a representative of the majority of members here, and don't tell me the legs are anime accurate because they're not even close. The 22 has even bigger legs in the lineart.

Edited December 27, 2007 by Maximiria

[eugimon]

yeah buddy, because there's 70 pages of people loving the new sculpt and then there's you, hell, just in the couple of pages you've been whinning on like a 7 year old, how many people have agreed with you?

And lets look at that drawing you posted, one leg is bigger than the rest of the mech. And the main wing is the same size as the tailfin. so you're saying the fighter mode should have to accomdate those obviously distorted proportions? Again, there's a posable yf-21 coming out with those wonky proportions. But if you can't accept that the animators played with the proportions in the various modes for the sake of looks, then that's just sad.

Just because you don't like the design, doesn't mean that people who do have to "justify" anything to themselves.

Edited December 27, 2007 by eugimon

[Maximiria]

That's odd because I went back and read a good portion of this thread last night and I see quite a bit of moaning about the legs and feet.

EDIT: That's not even including the people who were too afraid to say anything because they'd get jumped on by ppl like you.

Also there's a huge difference between liking the design.... and claiming that there'ss nothing wrong with it- probably because you plan to buy it no matter what. Convincing yourself that it's perfect when it's clearly not is just a ruse so you don't feel silly dropping 1-200 bucks on a seriously flawed toy.

Edited December 27, 2007 by Maximiria

[eugimon]

That's odd because I went back and read a good portion of this thread last night and I see quite a bit of moaning about the legs and feet.

EDIT: That's not even including the people who were too afraid to criticize it because they'd get jumped on by ppl like you.

yes, many people said they would like the legs bigger and most of them understand there are limitations when taking anime and making it "real". And most of those people like the proportions just fine after seeing the actual toy.

You on the other hand, have been kicking and screaming like a baby about the legs, even whining about it in a thread that has nothing to do with the yf-21.

And again, please explain to us all how that drawing you posted is supposed to transform. Please explain how and where the legs are supposed to go when one leg is bigger than the whole bot. Please explain why the wings are the same size as the tail fin.

[VF5SS]

All this talk of anime magic is stupid. I've never seen a more loaded phrase other than "kibble" from Transfans. At least say, "I feel there are some inadequacies with the current lineart, which was originally produced on a tight schedule without enough proportion checking."

And isn't the D'Stance kit perfect? Isn't resin wonderful?

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

When it's sitting on a shelf or in a display case WHO IS GONNA SEE THE BOTTOM OF THE PLANE?! That's right! No-One! Two out of three modes have to look inaccurate just so the LEAST VISIBLE AREA area of one mode can look better? The sacrifice has been too great, especially when you consider the legs are the most critical area for a free-standing poseable figure. The legs should be approximately 1/3 thicker to make it anime/line-art accurate, some scenes and art show the legs TWICE as thick as the world hobby photos I think yamato really could have tried harder on this one I'm not talking about making the fighter _noticeably_ thicker, just that a better compromise could have been made.

*sigh* oh well it's too late now.

Considering that Kawamori's approval is needed before production of this toy, and how its already going to be produced, it looks good enough. The old 1/72 is considered by some as monstrosity compared to this one. Least visible area? No. Thats just one area, you are forgetting that the sleek underside contributes to a sleek fighter mode, which everyone wants. For a child's toy the lack of a sleek underside is perfectly acceptable. For a $200 collectors item that blows away the one from 6 years ago, people expect more, a lot more. Hell the legs look skinny in the anime anyways. EVERYONE complained about the chunky jet more the original 1/72 had.

[Vic Mancini]

And the whole point of a valk is that it is a realistic fighter that turns into a robot, not the other way around. It makes no sense to have an uber cool bot mode that turns into a box with wings in the macross aesthetic. That's fine if that's what you're into, gundam and transformers do a fine job of make robots that transform into approximations of planes. But macross is the only franchise that makes realistic planes.

QFT.

F-mode is the only mode that moves around at Mach 20+ and thus needs to be sleek and aerodynamic. If it was a real world mecha the sleekness of F-mode would be more important than having fat legs.

I won't speak for others, but for me a Yamato Valk is supposed to be a perfect transformation interpretation of what the Valk would look like if it existed in real life. So for me, if the skinny legs are a necessary compromise to get that sleek F-mode, so be it. I'm more than glad they made that compromise and I would be disappointed if the F-mode was even 2 milimeters fatter than it already is.

Like this?

The top of that F-mode is so beautiful I don't even notice the bottom!

Maximiria has convinced me.

Just teasing, Maximiria. You're entitled to your opinion, and I respect it, but I think even you can see from Swoosh's post how important the bottom of a fighter mode is even when you are viewing the airplane from above.

Edit: The visible feet in F-mode actually bug me a lot more than the skinny legs in B/G mode. But what can ya do?

Edited December 27, 2007 by Vic Mancini

[ruskiiVFaussie]

*sniff* no one care about my small gunpod whine. :D :D

[Sumdumgai]

The pic you posted maximiria is resized and altered. The legs are not normally that thick in the lineart, and that VF-22 is missing details on the lower legs.

I find nothing wrong with this new version of the YF-21. It has a sleek awesome fighter mode, a great gerwalk for the YF-21, and the battroid is very much like a Q-rau.

Woo it comes with gunpods! One of the issues that made me not get the old 1/72 version, besides the ginormous belly that made the YF-21 look like it was ready to give birth to a litter of joke-machines.

[ruskiiVFaussie]

Found the culprit pic atleast - http://www.steelfalcon.com/Macross/vf22.shtml

Macross Mecha Designs

http://www.steelfalcon.com/Macross/Images/YF21soldier.gif http://www.steelfalcon.com/Macross/Images/VF22soldier.gif

Bit of a laugh really.

Edited December 27, 2007 by ruskiiVFaussie

[Twoducks]

The first complaint about there being kible on the arms of the toy was cute, repeating the rest over and over and over was unnecesary. Maximiria, you want chunky legs, well Yamato is giving you chunky legs:

http://macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?s=&a...st&p=541258

I like the long legs and short body the lineart of the 21 has, but I know perfectly well that the little drawing cannot turn into a beatiful slim plane (just to what dimension do those huge legs fold too???). If you want it to look like the drawing, you get an action figure like the one above, not a variable toy. I'll just get both (and only because the little figure will be cheap; I like a lot more a plausible looking plane that turns into a kick ass robot than an action figure).

Edited December 27, 2007 by Twoducks

[thankheaven]

To me atleast, Macross VF's have always been about fighter/plane first and robot second. VF's are mostly compared to planes then robots so to me atleast the fightermode is the most important.

As an example i just got the Bandai Reissue VF-17S. Now the battroid mode is really good with large bulky legs that look very accurate to the show. However this makes the fightermode look like a brick with wings witch is not cool at all IMO.

[drifand]

Anyone who doesn't like the new YF-21 just follow in my footsteps: I toughed out the entire 1/48 line! You TOO can get your 'perfect' YF-21 if wait long enough. (wink wink)

[ruskiiVFaussie]

lol ;) *Zoik!*

Edited December 27, 2007 by ruskiiVFaussie

[wolfx]

I lol-ed at the flame war. Well fat leg fetish ppl and thin leg ppl aside, I really like the toy's sculpt.

Maximiria: Like most people said, the toys are all about compromise. Sometimes the fighter mode is compromised and sometimes its the battroid....this is part and parcel of transforming toys. Finding the RIGHT compromise is an art form and for the YF-21 now, it seems to be the de-facto transforming version of a YF-21. Heck I'll even say it may be better than the D-stance kit. My only wish for the Yammie YF-21 is that its head (along with the hood) has some kinda articulation like the D-stance kit but it seems like it won't have it. There's no point arguing about "it doesn't look that thin in anime" blablabla. End of the day if you don't like it, you don't have to buy it. MW-ers after all have people who held out on the SV-51s and YF-19s even......so its not like everyone agrees how good a sculpt is.

[eriku]

Maybe one of our skilled customizers here can knit some really hot 1980's style legwarmers for the YF-21. PROBLEM SOLVED.

[Kyp Durron]

That's odd because I went back and read a good portion of this thread last night and I see quite a bit of moaning about the legs and feet.

EDIT: That's not even including the people who were too afraid to say anything because they'd get jumped on by ppl like you.

Also there's a huge difference between liking the design.... and claiming that there'ss nothing wrong with it- probably because you plan to buy it no matter what. Convincing yourself that it's perfect when it's clearly not is just a ruse so you don't feel silly dropping 1-200 bucks on a seriously flawed toy.

Give it a rest, if you don't like it, then don't buy the Goddamn thing. All you've done is whine and complain about how the legs are too skinny, they've sacrificed two out of the three modes for fighter, blah, blah, blah...ad nauseam.

You've long since made your feelings clear on the matter, it's time to move forward and get on with your life already....Jesus.

-Kyp

[sqidd]

MW-ers after all have people who held out on the SV-51s and YF-19s even......so its not like everyone agrees how good a sculpt is.

You mean I don't have to buy all of them?

[eriku]

You mean I don't have to buy all of them?

No, you do have to buy them all eventually. There's actually a "commitment to buy every Yamato Macross toy" contract in the back of the instruction manual for every Yamato toy. You need to fill out at least one and send it back to Yamato within one year or the RFID chip on every toy will notify Yamato Headquarters of your delinquency. Then the Yakuza gets involved and it just gets messy from there.

Edited December 27, 2007 by eriku

[danth]

Wow.

Let me bring this full circle guys. Maximiria is battying, Eugimon is battying about the battying, and now I'm gonna batty about the battying about the battying.

Maximiria has a legitimate complaint: the leg's don't match the lineart. Yeah, I know, it's impossible to make the legs like the lineart, because the lineart is meant to look "cool," instead of having proportions that are actually possible. I personally prefer a sleek fighter mode to a lineart-accurate battroid, so this problem doesn't bug me so much. But I'm not gonna flame Maximiria just because he's found a reason to dislike the 1/60 YF-21. Not only should Maximiria be entitled to his opinion, he should be entitled to voice his complaints without getting flamed. When you accuse someone of battying for voicing their opinion, that's just rude.

Maximiria, you're not alone. Every time a new Yamato toy comes out, there are a few people that voice legitimate concerns, and they are always lynched. I think I've figured out this phenomenon: People who spend thousands of dollars on toys, who's very happiness relies on buying toys, get extremely emotional when you challenge the greatness of a toy they plan on buying. I know it's stupid, but it happens EVERY TIME.

[Mog]

Umm, can we go back to posting pics of Zardoz and calling each other mentally deficient?

(Dante74, stop. It was a JOKE. Leave the Zardoz pic back on your hard drive. )

[ruskiiVFaussie]

ppl complain about my use of feathers in a diorama, and ppl have Zardoz pics on their hardrives... *rubs chin*

[Fatalist]

Wow.

Let me bring this full circle guys. Maximiria is battying, Eugimon is battying about the battying, and now I'm gonna batty about the battying about the battying.

Maximiria has a legitimate complaint: the leg's don't match the lineart. Yeah, I know, it's impossible to make the legs like the lineart, because the lineart is meant to look "cool," instead of having proportions that are actually possible. I personally prefer a sleek fighter mode to a lineart-accurate battroid, so this problem doesn't bug me so much. But I'm not gonna flame Maximiria just because he's found a reason to dislike the 1/60 YF-21. Not only should Maximiria be entitled to his opinion, he should be entitled to voice his complaints without getting flamed. When you accuse someone of battying for voicing their opinion, that's just rude.

Maximiria, you're not alone. Every time a new Yamato toy comes out, there are a few people that voice legitimate concerns, and they are always lynched. I think I've figured out this phenomenon: People who spend thousands of dollars on toys, who's very happiness relies on buying toys, get extremely emotional when you challenge the greatness of a toy they plan on buying. I know it's stupid, but it happens EVERY TIME.

I also remember, and correct me if I'm wrong (which on these boards people have no problem doing), but Graham posted a poll long long ago asking everyone how they preferred their Valks to look. I believe there were 3 options to choose from. Accuracy in all modes using detachable parts, As close as possible in all modes without detachable parts, or ??. I forget what the 3rd option was. But to make a long story short, I believe we are now recieving the fruits of that poll and our answers. Not everything is going to be perfect. And on designs like the 21, there's some sacrifices that need to be made to have it look awesome. Same thing happened on the 19 with the "neck". People complained non-stop about that, but when they recieved the toy, the complaints pretty much dwindled.

Point is everyone can have their opinions, but in the end, we're all going to have a great toy.

/Fin

[Maximiria]

I don't think it's impossible. I think yamato have just been lazy. I'm confident I can modify the legs, fuselage and belly plates etc. to be more anime accurate and keep the sleek look of the fighter, in fact I doubt fighter fanatics would even be able to tell the difference.

When the 1/48 vf1 came out I'm sure alot of poeple thought it couldn't be improved upon, that the skinny arms and long nosecone were unavoidable. Well they were obviously wrong. It was improved, in a smaller scale!

Like I said, the 21 is my favourite and if I have to do yamatos job for them to get a perfect one then I will. I think I'll pick up the first broken or second hand one I see on ebay and have a play around with the dremel and putty. The only part I'm unsure about is how to bulk-up the feet.

If you want something done properly you really do have to do it yourself!

Edited December 28, 2007 by Maximiria

[Sumdumgai]

Good luck on the customization job if you go for it Maximiria, and make sure to show us the pics!

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

I don't think it's impossible. I think yamato have just been lazy. I'm confident I can modify the legs, fuselage and belly plates etc. to be more anime accurate and keep the sleek look of the fighter, in fact I doubt fighter fanatics would even be able to tell the difference.

When the 1/48 vf1 came out I'm sure alot of poeple thought it couldn't be improved upon, that the skinny arms and long nosecone were unavoidable. Well they were obviously wrong. It was improved, in a smaller scale!

Like I said, the 21 is my favourite and if I have to do yamatos job for them to get a perfect one then I will. I think I'll pick up the first broken or second hand one I see on ebay and have a play around with the dremel and putty. The only part I'm unsure about is how to bulk-up the feet.

If you want something done properly you really do have to do it yourself!

Actually no, Drifand was one of the first here that mentioned how the 1/48 could be improved. Since he presented it in a constructive manner, no one gave him flack.

Yamato does deserve criticism with regards to quality control, but I don't think they should be deemed lazy with regards to the skinny legs on the YF-21. Also, they could have been working on that toy for years, and if thats the case, thats anything but lazy. Any transforming toy will have some sort of compromise. The toy vs model debate could go on for years, and it has gone on that long since some toy companies started to cater towards adults. For those who want a huge leg battroid, the best bet is either a Hasegawa, a scratch build, or a resin kit. None would survive the stresses associated with a transforming toy. A huge leg for now may not be possible with a sleeker underside on the fuselage, and a sleek fuselage/side profile is integral to the aesthetic of the YF-21.