Southern Cross Podcast

[Ginrai]

Hey folks. I have a podcast where we talk about anime and other such things. This week we reviewed The Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross. No, not Robotech: Masters, but the original Japanese version. I'd be obliged if you'd check it out and give feedback.

http://www.destroyallpodcastsdx.com

[valk1j]

Very interesting stuff. The information about the trinities, is new to me. I did not like the RT version at all, hated it when I was a kid and tried to watch it as an adult and still hated it. I've never seen SDC Southern Cross but if I find it cheap I'll pick it up. Too bad about the subtitle problem and video issue.

[Keith]

If you want to pick it up, I'd snag it sooner than later. Pretty sure it's OOP.

[jenius]

Cool podcast, I always love to hear what happened to people involved in these shows and get some background. Seems like you're giving the show points for noble efforts even when those efforts ultimately fail. A good example of that would be the praise of the mechanical designs; boy, are you right when you say some people would disagree with you (your comments on the Logan excluded). It also seemed like you two were (and I'm sure you are) much better versed in the Southern Cross universe than a person who would pick it up off the street. That person will see about three different suits of armor and have no idea about some of the cool thought that went into the show that just ulitmately was excluded. So in that way it seemed to be more review of the concept of Southern Cross as much as a review of the series itself (that's not really a criticism, just kind of an observation). I do prefer Southern Cross to Robotech's Masters for many of the points you guys bring up. I think the Zor/Masters fail as compelling villains though in both because of a dearth of personality. In fact, Sefreitt is almost forced into a position of carrying the personality for the would-be villains. The show also suffers from having villains that seem to defeat themselves which nicely reduces the drama a show can generate. Will the heroes overcome their emaciated foes lead by crusty old dudes? Are crusty old dudes that look like they're wearing flower costumes really the face you want to put on a mysterious foe that's pulling some major Invasion of the Body Snatchers junk? I don't know, the podcast starts with "It's a good show, better than Mospeada..." and yet there's never another mention of Mospeada. The comparison would be a show that does all the basic stuff right but never tests its own boundaries to a show that got all the basics wrong but was constantly trying to stretch its boundaries (IMHO).

That's kind of a rant, worth only what it cost you.

[Ginrai]

Yeah, I definitely feel like Southern Cross is kind of an interesting failure. I think it could have been a great show if it didn't have so many production difficulties. I think the Zor are definitely underdeveloped, but on the other hand, the main good guys are surprisingly well developed. We were learning more and more about the Zor as the show went on (it's always good to make your villains mysterious at first and reveal more as time goes on), but the way the show was cut back really undermined their efforts.

I am giving Southern Cross a lot of bonus points for trying different, risky things. Like I say, the hovertanks and helicoptors are pretty unique designs. They are not tried and true and are pretty weird, but the armor I think is the real centerpiece of the mecha design, which is probably something that most people do not focus on. I think our goal was to get people to reexamine Southern Cross from a different perspective, not as a part of Robotech (where it is a huge incoherent mess), and not as a Macross-style mecha show, because it is really pretty different.

As for Mospeada, the reason we didn't go into that too much is we have a Mospeada podcast coming soon (next week if I can pull it off). I can tell you right now, our biggest problems with Mospeada are how episodic the series is (it does not have much of an ongoing plot... they just sort of toss one together at the very end) and shallow characterization.

The creepy old dudes character design for the bad guys is kind of weird and nowhere near as menacing as the Inbit from Mospeada, I agree, but I am fascinated by the trinities. Robotech totally obscures that theme and just says, "Oh, there are three of them because they are clones" and ignores the way Jeanne, Lana, and Marie are their own sort of trinity (Dana, Nova, and Marie I guess.)

Edited July 6, 2007 by Ginrai

[jenius]

I think the Zor are definitely underdeveloped, but on the other hand, the main good guys are surprisingly well developed. We were learning more and more about the Zor as the show went on (it's always good to make your villains mysterious at first and reveal more as time goes on), but the way the show was cut back really undermined their efforts.

Without a doubt. This is also another area where Robotech just absolutely butchers the original. It could be an interesting study into why though. Did the writers of Robotech notice that the audience became disinterested in the mystery of the Zor and so the writers of Robotech tried to force a bit more knowledge on the audience sooner? As you can probably tell, and it's possibly quite unfair since I had seen Robotech before watching Southern Cross, but I never developed an interest in the Zor at all. The decision to ditch the body-snatching element of Southern Cross in Robotech sucks the creepy factor right from The Masters further crippling that arch. In Macross we got superb villains that were supposedly all business but had explosions of menace and personality, in Mospeada we had the Refless with her omnipresent eye and her haunting "eliminate them" as well as her super goons Batra and Sorji... in Southern Cross we get *kinda* distant, *kinda* cold, creepy guys that seemed like they'd make crappy neighbors. I have a problem forgiving it with the production problems though because there were points earlier in the story they could have exercised some brilliance or seemed way creepier but they didn't.

What I love about Southern Cross is the notion that the humans may very well be willing to die to keep an alien from coming home. There are many moments in Southern Cross that leave you wondering if certain characters are good or bad. There's a ton of internal conflict that spills over into the plot. In that respect, I think your efforts to get people to re-examine it free of bias are very noble. Unfortunately, I think it's executed so poorly that I have a horrible time actually recommending the show to someone else. Yes, the Spartas/HT is very unique and that's cool but that's more cool if it's implemented in such a way where people aren't constantly coming up with ways it could be better. The same is true of the Auroran/AGAC. Yes, a transformable helicopter is kinda unique but will that stop the audience from wondering why a pure-bred space-fighter isn't being used? Add to that the numerous ambiguities (many are probably caused by the production problems but they're still present) and a method of writing that makes some of the characters so human they conflict the audience rather than becoming rallying points and it's not tough to figure out why those production problems occurred.

I would contrast that to Genesis Climber which is absolutely formulaic and episodic. There is character development but nothing ground-breaking. Stig goes from blinded by hatred to destroying his own people's drones to set the Inbit free, Jim goes from a coward to a Lion... crap, think I got my stories mixed up. Anyway, there's very mild progression and Lord knows the writers were not intending the soap opera effect nearly as much as the writers of Southern Cross. Where Genesis Climber succeeds over Southern Cross is purely in entertainment. No, you don't get the cerebral action of a crazy Sefriet but you do get conflict, drama, and resolution and just enough open-ended-ness to bring you back (usually in the form of Aisha). The Inbit in the series typically just serve as motivating factors for the group to move from one post-apocalyptic moral to the next. Yes, those morals often seem canned but hey, it's better than the old GI Joe technique of just having Duke tell you a moral that had nothing to do with the show before the credits rolled. Genesis Climber makes better sense. The Inbit aren't as evil as they seem, the heroes aren't as heroic, but in the end the heroes win and the bad guys don't even have to die to make it happen (leaving a restored Earth in their wake). Could it have been 100x better if the writers were more daring? Hell yes. Could it have been much worse if the writers were more daring? Hell yes, and I would say your proof of that is the failure that is Southern Cross.

PS - It seems I'm getting off-topic now. I am pretty sure you didn't want this to be a big Southern Cross or Southern Cross vs Mospeada thing so I apologize. Also, none of that was written in the hopes of sounding condescending, angry, or any other way that might sound petulant, I'm just kind of rambling. I enjoyed your podcast.

[Keith]

Luckily, I hadn't seen robotech in so many years, that I pretty much did walk int o Southern Cross fresh. And while I did enjoy it, there's just something about Mospeada that I liked a lot more.

[isamu]

Hey folks. I have a podcast where we talk about anime and other such things. This week we reviewed The Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross. No, not Robotech: Masters, but the original Japanese version. I'd be obliged if you'd check it out and give feedback.

http://www.destroyallpodcastsdx.com

Absolutely fantastic podcast Ginrai!! Your knowledge of the show is very impressive and makes me want to go out and buy it just to see how much better it is than the RT version.

Really hope you continue these and really looking forward to listening to the Mospeada one next week!

Will you guys be doing a podcast focusing on Macross? Or did you already do one? If so, link?

What other anime related podcasts do ya'll recommend?

[Ginrai]

Thanks for the compliments! We read all the staff interviews and crap that we could find for Southern Cross and tried to study it critically, ignoring Robotech as much as possible.

Mospeada is definitely coming this week. We are going to do all the Macross shows eventually, but have not started yet, mostly because we don't want to drown the podcast with similar material every week for months. I'm planning to do SDF Macross TV in an about a month, followed by Orguss, but we'll have to see if we can sychronize our schedules on it.

For other people's shows, I strongly recommend Anime World Order (http://www.animeworldorder.com) as another anime podcast. They are way more knowledgable than us and review kinds of shows we would never touch as well as shows we do. They even reviewed Macross DYRL a few months back. I also like Dave and Joel's Fast Karate for the Gentleman (http://www.daveandjoel.com). They are very casual and funny and while not super knowledgable, bring a light, humorous air. They frequently review terrible shows and make fun of them.

[The Shade]

Listened to it the other day. Good job. It made me feel like watching the show, unfortunately I have to way of acquiring it.

Looking forward to your other shows. Make sure to announce it.

[Ginrai]

Listened to it the other day. Good job. It made me feel like watching the show, unfortunately I have to way of acquiring it.

Looking forward to your other shows. Make sure to announce it.

Cool, glad you liked the podcast! Rightstuf has the DVD set for $25: http://www.rightstuf.com/cgi-bin/catalogmg...tem/60631/4/0/0 or I imagine you can get for cheap on ebay or something.

We do a podcast once a week (at least), but I'm always a bit afraid to post links to random shows we are reviewing for fear of being off topic.

[1st Border Red Devil]

Uh,

the two Late Generation Bioroids do appear in SDC: Southern Cross...in the opening, just like the Marsh Squad's Triton robot. Sure, its only the opening credits...but hey...they do appear.

As for the Auroran, could we kindly STOP saying its a 'Helicopter in Space' when it never once appears in its Helicopter form? Its as patently f*cking absurd as b*tching about the VF-1 appearing as a Jet Fighter in outerspace.

[VF5SS]

Far be it from me to question some of our feedback, but come on dude! You're complaints are we didn't notice two tiny Bioroids and we made snide comments about the Auroran? You sound like the guy who wrote a huge paragraph of hate just because we *jokingly* said, "Harlock is a nazi. "

Man, we're laying down some Southern Cross love and you gotta be all hatin'.

[jenius]

Ugh, I liked the Auroran a whole lot more when I had forgotten exactly what it looked like... strike 3 for the Southern Cross mecha designs...

[Ginrai]

Oh, I was just waiting for you to come in and be a jerk and it seems I was not disappointed. I did not watch the opening animation with a magnifying glass frame by frame clearly, and you know what? Even without the blades on it, that still looks like a damn helicoptor to me. Stop being such a pompous jerk. We gave Southern Cross a positive review and you get all up in our faces about it? Go away.

P.S. Nice Robotech screen capture.

[VF5SS]

Hey now the Auroran is a cool looking Space Cobra (it would've been to early to be a Space Apache). The robot mode is pretty rad and the transformation is unique. Definitely and improvement on the crappy Logan. The Cosmo Amazon needs a proper ride.