Japanese Macross fans and Yamato QC?

[Chet]

I was just wondering: anybody know if Japanese buyers are experiencing the same QC problems with their Yamato Macross purchases that we have? Are we just less careful with our toys? Maybe they like to keep theirs MISB and don't even know about the problem?

If they are experiencing the same QC problems, then what's the chatter like in the Japanese fan community?

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

They probably did, otherwise Yamato would have never provided replacement parts to hlj.com. Think about it, they can't legally market to us. Their target market and the majority of their buyers are japanese. They can market to the japanese. If the problem was regulated to buyers outside japan theres nothing they could really do about it and it would be a waste of money for them to even bother making them.

So there had to be breakages and complaints within the japanese community as well.

They are fans like us, the only difference being-

1-language barrier

2-they are the target market, not us

[Graham]

I've asked Yamato on several occasions if Japanese customers were complaining about arm breakages on the VF-0. They told me no.

Graham

[eugimon]

I've asked Yamato on several occasions if Japanese customers were complaining about arm breakages on the VF-0. They told me no.

Graham

Honest question, not being snide. Why do you think that is? How could the plastic be failing in such a dramatic fashion overseas, but NOT in japan?

[wolfx]

I agree that it would be interesting to know what Japanese fans are thinking about Yamato and their stuff.

[wolfx]

Honest question, not being snide. Why do you think that is? How could the plastic be failing in such a dramatic fashion overseas, but NOT in japan?

Its better to get it from a Japanese forum somewhere rather than from the company that makes the figures. Corporations tend to keep "product flaws" hush hush to the public anyway. (YES I'm talking about you.....Microsoft*!@&(*!&@ Xbox 360 (*!@**(!@ )

But if they are telling the truth (which i doubt) there can be few possibilities:

1.) Japanese fans are not as anal as the non Japanese. (i really really doubt this)

2.) Japanese fans don't bother to unscrew stuff on their valks.

I mean it was really by chance we found out about the breaking shoulders on the VF-0s. If the person who 1s found out about it never reported it, we'd still be clueless about this defect, assuming NOBODY customises or tightens the joints on their Valks.

[aezonrath]

Posted by Graham

I've asked Yamato on several occasions if Japanese customers were complaining about arm breakages on the VF-0. They told me no.

Graham

Forgive me if this question sounds silly guys, but is there a difference in the make of the toys (in terms of materials used and what not) for the Japanese consumers as opposed to the ones that they send out to other consumers world wide?

Shouldn't be though...

Hmmm

[eugimon]

Posted by Graham

Forgive me if this question sounds silly guys, but is there a difference in the make of the toys (in terms of materials used and what not) for the Japanese consumers as opposed to the ones that they send out to other consumers world wide?

Shouldn't be though...

Hmmm

it's not unheard of... for instance, the japanese version of Cup Noodles is FAR superior to the american version, better quality noodles, big pieces of fluffy eggs and bigger pieces of meat. But in this instance, I don't think that would be the answer because there is no "official" exporting of yamato macross toys. So, people who buy these toys outside of japan, get them through various importers, ebayers, and some buy them in japan and fly them home. There's just too wide and varied a sampling to say that there's some sort of "b" stock that yamato is dumping on poor foreigners.

[Beware of Blast]

My VF0S with the stressmarks are Japan versions. Yes there are JPN and HK versions. JPN version means for domestic market. HK version means for HK and outbound market. Aside from that, JPN version also means getting the VFs early. Sometimes as early as two weeks to a month. This is also true with Bandai SOCs.

There is an urban legend going around that JPN versions are also better in terms of QC, better paint application, and examples like if you see plastic swirls on your HK version, the JPN version will most probably be plastic swirls free - I compared my HK SOC Gunbuster with a friend's JPN SOC Gunbuster. Despite this, I'd still say urban legend and hearsay.

If there are no complaints from the JPN market, it's either:-

1) the Japanese have so much disposable income that sh1t lucks like VF0 arm breakage and other QC issues are inconsequential, so either they got it changed or they can buy another to keep MISB,

2) All foreign collectors are pussies - they whine, b1tch & moan at the slightest displeasing product issues, or

3) Graham is being fed BS again.

You make your choices.

[eugimon]

Where would one find the identifying marks to differentiate the JPN and HK versions?

I have japanese bought and imported versions and I can't find any differentiating marks on either the boxes or the toys themselves. as far as I can tell, they're all made in China.

But then again, it's 2:30am for me, so I could just be blind.

[Graham]

There are no separate HK and Japan versions of Yamato's Macross toys. Each release is made in one production run at the factory in China. There is no difference in either design or materials for the toys sold in Japan or elsewhere. They are 100% identical.

Japan doesn't get toys significantly earlier than Hk. In fact there have been at least two times I can recall when Yamato Macross toys actually hit the shelves here a couple of days earlier than in Japan (they weren't supposed to tho).

Yes, it's possible I might be getting fed BS. Or possibly my contact either doesn't know about breakages or isn't being told about them. Which would be worse if employees are hiding problems from the top management.

Graham

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Someone mentioned they would not have found out about the problem if they didn't look for it. I assume yamato did the same: assumed there is no problem and didn't prepare for a problem that they didn't know even existed until too late.

The HG issue is what makes it hard for the macross collector. Support for spare parts wouldn't be a problem if officially we could receive the fixes. Without the support and due to the high import price, its way more risky than for other toys. Japanese buyers have the safety of knowing it is for their territory so I guess they would have less to be angry about, right? (whereas the slightest stress mark scares us due to the hassle of getting the replacements and/or having no contact with someone who can take care of us)

Hopefully the japanese customers do notice the problems or it will mean any complaints by those outside japan start to have less legitimacy in thier mind. (and even if there is a boycott by people buying outside of japan in protest, I doubt that would do anything seeing as how insignificant sales outside japan would be and how we are not the main target in the first place)

There is still hope that they do take all feedback (regardless of where the buyer is from) seriously though otherwise we would be stuck with the VF0 swapping parts thing instead of the PT. It's still money at the end of the day. I wonder if by the time toys for that new macross tv series start to be made, yamato boosts their own durability in order to compete with any other toy company making toys for it? (assuming there is multiple companies all doing something)

As an example if a VF-11 appears in the tv series, and bandai were to make a ultra tough but decently detailed pt toy, and yamato also had plans for a VF-11, and the bandai one was going to affect sales of the yamato one, because they look similar, what effect would that have on yamato's attitude towards their own rendition of the mecha? Would they start bouncing ideas from others, changing the toy to match the better design, and generally being more serious about the thing having to actually outdo the other to profit?

The current problem is we are not spoilt for choice. People say yamato is the only game in town, so you either don't buy and resist the temptation, and miss out. Or you buy and take a risk that you are going to waste money on a busted toy with no support which is the safety net you can get for other franchises. Two big extremes with no comfortable middle.

Edited June 27, 2007 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Beware of Blast]

Before this gets any further, I like to point out that my post before are personal experience.

The JPN version usually has a yellow foil BW sticker. The HK version, red foil BW Sticker. Both roughly no bigger than 1.5(H) X 1(W)cm in scale.

International retailers that have ties with JPN suppliers usually get their stocks earlier with the yellow BW stickers. They also usually sell for slightly higher in price than the HK versions with the red BW sticker - maybe it's the shipping costs from JPN that is higher that factored in the higher retail price. HK versions will also as usual arrive later (up to 1 month).

There is no doubt that both versions are made in China. However it is no secret that JPN collectors and some "backdoor" HK collectors that usually get the privilege of getting their mits dirty first - due to distribution priorities.

[eugimon]

what about green, blue and orange then? Because I have red, orange, yellow, green and blue stickers.

And all my Vf-0s, the ones with the cracked and shattered shoulders, have yellow

So while I don't think you're right on your color code theory, IF you were, there's no evidence that yellow sticker valks have some sort of anti-shoulder cracking properties.

Edited June 27, 2007 by eugimon

[Beware of Blast]

I don't know anything about any color code theory. I'm talking based on the sticker on my VF0S only. It is also yellow as it is a JPN version which I got about 1 week earlier than some of my fellow collectors in Kuala Lumpur. The one that I paid more than what my friends paid for as well.

Edit:- Also I'm not suggesting that the yellow sticker valks have some sort of anti-shoulder cracking properties. I did also point out that JPN versions believed by many collectors to have better quality, etc etc, are just urban legend and hearsay.

It's more likely the different colors are just markings for distribution to either JPN or HK. I've noticed there are two different colored stickers everytime.

Edited June 27, 2007 by Beware of Blast

[eugimon]

Idon't know anything about any color code theory. I'm talking based on the sticker on my VF0S only. It is also yellow as it is a JPN version which I got about 1 week earlier than some of my fellow collector in Kuala Lumpur. The one that I paid more than what my friends paid for as well.

unfortunately, correlation does not describe a causual relationship.

[odr78]

I've asked Yamato on several occasions if Japanese customers were complaining about arm breakages on the VF-0. They told me no.

Graham

poor comunication from Yamato ( we can't believe it of course )... They hide the truth with these good customers.. Or maybe japaneses fans are lobotomized..... and they say the truth ?

Graham.. You must retain your anger sometimes.

Thanks for yours devotion for us...

Edited June 27, 2007 by odr78

[sketchley]

2) All foreign collectors are pussies - they whine, b1tch & moan at the slightest displeasing product issues, or

Yes and:

a) Japanese users are more gentle with their purchases. (Or they transform and play with them less.)

b) the oil used is designed for the humid SouthEast and East Asia climate. It breaks down faster in different climates. (I'm not sure how much, if any, oil is used in the products, but this is known to happen with personal electronics bought in East Asia and used in a different climate.)

[Macross73]

i dont see how Yamato could purposely stop midway in making something thats good

and then use crappier material just b/c it was being sent out of Japan. As a consumer

thats just offensive. I think that if we're having problems than so are Japanese consumers

like it was said before maybe they dont take their toys apart. Perhaps they aren't reporting it.

Although I think they'd be just as vocal about this.

[Swoosh]

We have went through a lots of debate in various HK toys forum regarding Japanese version, HK version, Taiwan Version, Southeast Asia version of the same toy that came from the same plant.

Those 'Collector" always say Japanese version has better QC and that's why you will find those Japanese version cost about 10-20% higher than other version in HK toy store.... I believe they do it just for protect their resell value....

I also collect Bandai Saint Coth Myth, SOC and HCM Pro, I have almost every version stated above in my collection, I can say their QC are identical. Flaws can be found in every version.

Luckily in HK we can see the actual product, usaully the store have them in quantity and we can compare them side by side and pick the best one before we pay the money...

Edited June 27, 2007 by Swoosh

[Mowe]

The latest Yamato Macross problems are design issues (poor materials selection and poor engineering). No point in looking (or hoping) for other causes.

As said by others, all Yamato's Valks are made in china, the Japanese are getting the same toy as everybody eles.

I don't see how the Japanese buyers are more gentler than other buyers from around the world. Beside, how much more gentler can we be when a number of us find the problem with just one transformation striaght out of the box.

The only uncertainty I have in regards to the differences between products from a Japanese Seller and a China/HK Seller is that it is possible that some unchecked or faulty products are being slipped out from the back door of the factory.

Edited June 27, 2007 by Mowe

[TheLoneWolf]

2) All foreign collectors are pussies - they whine, b1tch & moan at the slightest displeasing product issues, or

I'm going to go with this option. No offense to my fellow Americans, but we don't have any problem calling out Yamato when a problem arises. OTOH, it seems the Japanese will put up with imperfections rather than rock the boat. I believe it's a cultural thing.

[do not disturb]

I'm going to go with this option. No offense to my fellow Americans, but we don't have any problem calling out Yamato when a problem arises. OTOH, it seems the Japanese will put up with imperfections rather than rock the boat. I believe it's a cultural thing.

imperfections is a visiable seem line, i can deal with that.

this is a case of continuing to sell something that is known to break.

thats a big difference IMO.

would you buy a car if it was known to break down? of course not.

but you're willing to buy a toy that does? why?

i know my comparison is a bit extreme but its notthing to do with the dollar amount, more so the principle.

[TheLoneWolf]

imperfections is a visiable seem line, i can deal with that.

Ok, rather than waste time arguing semantics, let me rephrase what I was saying:

The Japanese are more willing to put up with breaks, QC issues, imperfections, design flaws, et al than we Americans. I'm not saying they're better than we are, or are foolish for not being as vocal as us, all I'm saying is that I believe it's a cultural thing.

[jenius]

On the Japanese vs. Chinese, HK, Tiawanese, Singaporean issue, I can state definitively that when we discuss old Gakken toys for the Mospeada line the Japanese versions ARE better made. These toys have obvious differences though (like different paint applications, different materials, etc). That whole thing is a different argument though. In those cases, the toys made FOR Japan were made IN Japan.

When we're talking about Yamato that argument is kinda non-sensey. Everything Yamato makes, regardless of the market, is made at the same place by the same people using the same products. There may be products ear-marked for certain regions but that almost certainly just comes from whatever area in the warehouse the product gets parked after assembly. Sticker application on the boxes may be the very last thing that happens as the toy is on its way out the door which may indeed end up identifying where it gets shipped... but it doesn't make the toy inside any different. From there a release date gets set and vendors everywhere start getting their products. Like DVDs, sometimes the vendors sell early to make an extra $$ if the shipment arrives early.

I find it quite dubious to think the Japanese are just a more forgiving crew. Maybe the Japanese are just more likely to be pack-rat types who stash their toys away after purchase? I think the best answer is probably that they're on a forum somewhere griping just like we are. The other issue being that they can get service from Yamato so they're complaints probably get resolved unlike us who are left with a crumpled toy and an empty wallet.

Edited June 27, 2007 by jenius

[konimon]

I find it quite dubious to think the Japanese are just a more forgiving crew. Maybe the Japanese are just more likely to be pack-rat types who stash their toys away after purchase? I think the best answer is probably that they're on a forum somewhere griping just like we are. The other issue being that they can get service from Yamato so they're complaints probably get resolved unlike us who are left with a crumpled toy and an empty wallet.

From what I remember from 2ch. Japanese 0S/0A owners used to complain that the shoulder parts are loose.

Their common solution though was to put wood glue on the ball joint. I haven't seen anyone suggested to tighten screws which might be adding extra stress to the weak arm parts. I've also heard a few owners did put YF-19s back into the box because they were too scared to transform it's neck part. I don't visit 2ch often so this is only to the best of my knowledge.

And then, as jenius pointed out, Japanese customers can get parts exchange easily. In one case, they were trying to exchange for rather minor problem like painting job was off.

Edited June 27, 2007 by konimon

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

The other issue being that they can get service from Yamato so they're complaints probably get resolved unlike us who are left with a crumpled toy and an empty wallet.

This is what I mean by no safety net for macross products for us outside japan. Macross is the only one where I'll wait for later releases or a good first release because of that. Just can't afford to have a dud. It would be good if people had some japanese friends we could all contact to buy the stuff from, and people would pay upfront to that "friend" for it, they would go and buy it directly from a japanese store, open it up to check for problems (at the option of the buyer who wants to get a flawless toy - you would email telling him to "please check before sending") and if there is a problem, use him to complain about it.

Once that person got the replacement that is owed to them of a fixed shoulder (and since they are a japanese customer where it would be ok for support) then he would send the replaced shoulder with the toy in box to avoid the aweful HLJ treatment of selling it as a seperate item.

The person would need a good reputation though and free time. (basically have to be a fan of macross who is more than happy to help a fellow fan out for the good of the community) But think of all the risk you eliminate by doing it? Bulk order would probably save money too. If people knew they had some form of safety net, it might even boost sales due to knowing they are being taken care of, and there is no danger of yamato just abusing us customers outside of japan because they weren't supposed to sell to them in the first place.

Edited June 28, 2007 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Vermillion21]

And then, as jenius pointed out, Japanese customers can get parts exchange easily.

I also think that's probably why the Japanese fan base would likely complain less about QC issues, b'c they can get them resolved.

Lucky them.

[Chet]

From what I remember from 2ch. Japanese 0S/0A owners used to complain that the shoulder parts are loose.

Their common solution though was to put wood glue on the ball joint. I haven't seen anyone suggested to tighten screws which might be adding extra stress to the weak arm parts. I've also heard a few owners did put YF-19s back into the box because they were too scared to transform it's neck part. I don't visit 2ch often so this is only to the best of my knowledge.

This is interesting. Anybody else have any idea what the chatter is like on Japanese message boards regarding these toys?

[Graham]

IMO, transforming the YF-19 neck hinge is easy if you know how to do it correctly. I've never had a problem with it.

Graham

[Ignacio Ocamica]

Same here!

[eugimon]

never had a problem with they yf-19 neck hinge either.

Anwyays, onto the comment that the japanese just aren't as nit picky... I'd dispute that. My wife worked for oakely for more than half a decade, and the japanese were her pickiest customers, their tolerances were far higher than what was acceptable to USA or European customers and would routinely send back lenses due to imperfections.

[TheLoneWolf]

You're comparing fashion customers to toy customers?

[Graham]

What about software customers, they knowingly and willing buy software known to be flawed all the time.

Graham

[eugimon]

You're comparing fashion customers to toy customers?

No, I was answering the claim that japanese consumers were more forgiving or not as quick to criticize flaws in products. Given that many oakley glasses fall in the range of yamato's macross toys, I thought it wasn't that big of a stretch.