Retracting Head Ter Ter Posted June 14, 2007 Posted June 14, 2007 So what is this damn Phantom Mech ability all about and which damn writer first crapped it out? AFAIK, its some plot device bullcrap to make a cheesy heroic mechwarrior invincible? Was it ever mentioned in offical FASA rules? Quote
thegunny Posted June 14, 2007 Posted June 14, 2007 So what is this damn Phantom Mech ability all about and which damn writer first crapped it out? AFAIK, its some plot device bullcrap to make a cheesy heroic mechwarrior invincible? Was it ever mentioned in offical FASA rules? It's not in Total Warfare so it isn't legal. Are you sure you're not mixing it up with the home made Special Abilities rules for the Exterminator on the PRI web site? Quote
wolfx Posted June 14, 2007 Posted June 14, 2007 I read this thing in wiki that Kai Allard Liao is the only surviving mechwarriors with this ability. But there's no details WHAT THE **** this ability is. In wiki its mentioned a few times but nothing beyond "Phantom Mech ability is oh so uber". What IS it? Some kinda Newtype ability? Quote
Retracting Head Ter Ter Posted June 14, 2007 Author Posted June 14, 2007 Some trawling of the internet got me some answers. Get this.. when the warrior has accepted death, his damn enemy's targeting _computer_ thinks he is well and truly dead, therefore not registering his _mech_ as a valid target! Duh! Crap as I thought. Which author first defecated this out? Quote
wolfx Posted June 14, 2007 Posted June 14, 2007 That's really stupid...... So all the Draconis Combine kamikazes can be invisible platoons? >_< Quote
treatment Posted June 14, 2007 Posted June 14, 2007 (edited) hmmm... without digging up them old paperbacks... iirc, it was Michael Stackpole's shenanigan since, well, it's in his bt-novels where I first read about it. Yorinaga Kurita, Patrick Kell and Morgan Kell had this "ability". I can't remember if Justin Allard nor if his son Kai had it. I think Thurston's Aidan Pryde had an even more bizarro ability than this "phantom mech" thingymajig. I don't remember Keith writing about the Grayson or any of the GDL having this "ability". I guess, fwiw, just stick to Charette's novels if you want better and a bit more believable stories and stuff. Edited June 14, 2007 by treatment Quote
Hurin Posted June 14, 2007 Posted June 14, 2007 Yeah. It was Stackpole. I don't remember being totally disgusted with it as written. The Warrior series by Stackpole was top-notch (though, try to count how many times he uses the phrase "framed himself in the doorway"). But it certainly sounds dumb in hindsight. Quote
thegunny Posted June 14, 2007 Posted June 14, 2007 I think Thurston's Aidan Pryde had an even more bizarro ability than this "phantom mech" thingymajig. Unless I read a different version of The Jade Phoenix I can't recall Aidan Pryde having any "bizarro ability". He just managed to piss off everyone he came in contact with. Quote
Lynx7725 Posted June 14, 2007 Posted June 14, 2007 Unless I read a different version of The Jade Phoenix I can't recall Aidan Pryde having any "bizarro ability". He just managed to piss off everyone he came in contact with. Yeah, that was his bizarro ability. Yes, it was Stackpole. It was a big plot point and was well executed, the problem was when FASA took the fluff and translated it a little too literally into the game system. Quote
kensei Posted June 14, 2007 Posted June 14, 2007 Are we talking about when the mech does not acknowledge that a target is there, and just keeps on missing no matter what they shoot? Quote
Hurin Posted June 14, 2007 Posted June 14, 2007 Basically, the pilot becomes one with the universe in some way, and his mech disappears from targeting computers. It's a "zen" thing. As I write that, it looks incredibly silly and stupid. But as written on the pages of the books themselves, it comes across pretty cool. Mostly because of the way we don't really know exactly what happened the last time someone witnessed such a thing. But we hear many people obliquely refer to it, and others seem downright disturbed by it. If memory serves, the character who first acheived such a state is first shown in a monastary, trying to come to grips with what had happened to him. But again, the reader is left totally in the dark for the majority of the story regarding what exactly has disturbed him so. Indeed, this thread could almost be considered a spoiler thread. Quote
kensei Posted June 14, 2007 Posted June 14, 2007 I think both of them ended up in a monastery, before meeting up again and history repeating itself. Quote
promethuem5 Posted June 14, 2007 Posted June 14, 2007 Hmmm.... I've been doing CBT forever, and read alot of the books (esp. the JF Trilogy and the entire FedCom Civil War set) and I don't remember anything like this... I'd call it out as stupid if I ran into it too. CBT's just been totally wonky and disorganized lately anyways... aside from how nice looking a book Total Warfare was, the rest of the support seems to be in shambles... Quote
Lynx7725 Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 I think both of them ended up in a monastery, before meeting up again and history repeating itself. True. Morgan Kell ended up in a monastery, running away from what he had became. Yorinaga Kurita ended up in a monastery, trying to become what Morgan Kell had became. Quote
Lynx7725 Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 (edited) Double post. Work network is fritzing up. Edited June 15, 2007 by Lynx7725 Quote
Chowser Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 Didn't Jaime Wolf also have this skill? I remember a mock battle between Wolf and Morgan Kell and both had exhibited that trait during the sim. I'll have to dig up my Battletech novels. Quote
treatment Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 Unless I read a different version of The Jade Phoenix I can't recall Aidan Pryde having any "bizarro ability". He just managed to piss off everyone he came in contact with. iirc, Aidan in his Timberwolf with only a small laser against the ComGuards. Quote
wolfx Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 iirc, Aidan in his Timberwolf with only a small laser against the ComGuards. HEADSHOT! Quote
Lynx7725 Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 iirc, Aidan in his Timberwolf with only a small laser against the ComGuards. HEADSHOT! MANY TIMES! :D You actually can kill the pilot that way through non-critical hits to the head... Quote
wolfx Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 In retrospect, the Jade Phoenix series was quite inspirational. Aidan has been through crap all his life and regarded as "stravag" earlier on, and even when he earned his own unit, it was made up of freebirths and dishonored warriors. Poor guy. But his GAR-ness saves the day! Another Pryde gene goes into the genepool. Quote
Retracting Head Ter Ter Posted June 15, 2007 Author Posted June 15, 2007 (edited) On the subject of TARGETING computers in the CBT world. What the hell do these things do anyway? Randomly screw up your shot? I mean, you have a laser or direct fire weapon (say 100mm autocannon), trying to shoot a target 10m tall by 2-3m wide which is uhmm, 300 metres away from you, even if both of you are not moving, there is only a 50% chance or less of a hit!** I think any WW2 Panzer Gunner will be a Katana Cluster awardee in the CBT universe provided he switched off his TARGETING computer! **Large laser at 11 hexes is (uhmm 330metres? is it 30m per hex?) To hit is 9 (or is it 10? Can't remember after all this time) on a 2d6. Thats way less then 50%. Edited June 15, 2007 by Retracting Head Ter Ter Quote
thegunny Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 iirc, Aidan in his Timberwolf with only a small laser against the ComGuards. He also died as well Quote
Smiley424 Posted June 20, 2007 Posted June 20, 2007 iirc, Aidan in his Timberwolf with only a small laser against the ComGuards. just recently re-read Jade Phoenix Trilogy and in that battle, his final battle, he had assistance from his commanding officer flying overhead at high altitude, basically telling him which direction to adjust his mech and where to shoot. Quote
Professor Dire Posted January 21, 2017 Posted January 21, 2017 (edited) Thread Bump From Above! Â I hope to be running a six session Classic Battletech tournament later this year in Nebraska. Edited January 21, 2017 by Professor Dire clean up Quote
NZEOD Posted January 21, 2017 Posted January 21, 2017 (edited) On ‎15‎/‎06‎/‎2007 at 5:48 PM, Retracting Head Ter Ter said: On the subject of TARGETING computers in the CBT world. What the hell do these things do anyway? Randomly screw up your shot? I mean, you have a laser or direct fire weapon (say 100mm autocannon), trying to shoot a target 10m tall by 2-3m wide which is uhmm, 300 metres away from you, even if both of you are not moving, there is only a 50% chance or less of a hit!** I think any WW2 Panzer Gunner will be a Katana Cluster awardee in the CBT universe provided he switched off his TARGETING computer! **Large laser at 11 hexes is (uhmm 330metres? is it 30m per hex?) To hit is 9 (or is it 10? Can't remember after all this time) on a 2d6. Thats way less then 50%. remember its scaled for a table top. Take that aspect away and I'm sure the fiction would have been written with kilometre ranges in mind and not hundreds of meters.  Battlefleet Gothic is another example. In the books the engagements happen at 100000kms in the PC game and the board game its models right next to each other.  Then you go play Warthunder on realistic mode and most kills come from god knows where way off in the trees some place a km or two away!. Edited January 21, 2017 by NZEOD Quote
NZEOD Posted January 21, 2017 Posted January 21, 2017 (edited) On ‎14‎/‎06‎/‎2007 at 5:09 PM, wolfx said: I read this thing in wiki that Kai Allard Liao is the only surviving mechwarriors with this ability. But there's no details WHAT THE **** this ability is. In wiki its mentioned a few times but nothing beyond "Phantom Mech ability is oh so uber". What IS it? Some kinda Newtype ability? its from The Kurita vs Kell Hounds 3025 era fiction. It wasn't written to be in the game. Basically The Kell Hounds Merc Commander Morgan Kell in an Archer (Spartan Destroid) called out the Samurai Units commander Yorinaga Kurita in a Warhammer (Tomahawk Destroid) to a one on one duel and during this duel when the Archer went down on one knee the Warhammer moved in to finish it but found it had electronically disappeared so all the shots went wide and keep bracketing the Archer but not hitting it... yes this is dumb as in the book the Warhammer was close enough to rest the PPC barrel in the shoulder of the Archer so who needs a targetter then... The fight ends in a tie and later Kurita learns how to do it too along with Patrick Kell, Morgans brother. But... Patrick still dies under Kuritas guns later. The best way to envision it is active stealth and ECM as I guess the Target gathering gear helps with the aim point and gun/beam convergence given how wide apart the Beam cannons are on a Tomahawk.  Funny... I cant remember some things from Uni but I remember this useless crap from the books I read during breaks in study...   annnnnnd then I see the 2007 dates on the posts I just answered... Too much time airbrushing laquers I think. Edited January 21, 2017 by NZEOD Quote
Professor Dire Posted January 21, 2017 Posted January 21, 2017 You are right about the ranges.  An "inch/hex" represents 30 meters.  Everything is scaled by about a 3rd of what it should be with Terra's curvature.  There are some truly odd decisions that were justified for game ballance.  The ranges and weights for autocannons are truly WTF level wrong.  So ard the drivetrain and powerplant mechanics.  I used to run "Battle Tech Rectified" in college, and we had a lot of fun.  After crunching a lot of number I learned to appreciate some of the decisions the folks at FASA made for brevity's sake. Quote
This Confuses Gamlin Posted January 22, 2017 Posted January 22, 2017 The ranges are artificially shortened to keep tabletop sizes down within reason and to encourage flashy physical attacks. I haven't played in a long time. I have the Total Warfare rules, but the ruleset that I remember the most is the mid-1990s era. Â Quote
Dynaman Posted January 22, 2017 Posted January 22, 2017 I've got the old boardgames (wth the "unseen" mechs) and everything was done with no *NO* regard for physics. Â Just get any thought of such things out of your heads. Â Darn fun game back then however. Â I gave up on it long ago with each new release feeling the need to up the ante on power/weight/heat, etc... Quote
NZEOD Posted January 22, 2017 Posted January 22, 2017 the interpretation of the Autocannons in Mech Warrior Online REALLY bug me! An IS AC20 is a single 120mm Slug, so its really a single shot Main Battle Tank gun. The Clan version on the other hand fires a burst of smaller slugs for the same total damage... but it means the damage can and will spread over a few locations which makes it way weaker! Quote
NZEOD Posted January 22, 2017 Posted January 22, 2017 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Dynaman said: I've got the old boardgames (wth the "unseen" mechs) and everything was done with no *NO* regard for physics. Â Just get any thought of such things out of your heads. Â Darn fun game back then however. Â I gave up on it long ago with each new release feeling the need to up the ante on power/weight/heat, etc... It was its most fun when it was Wasps, Valkyries, Stingers, Warhammers, Marauders, Victors etc and a few hover tanks and helicopters. 3025 was the best codex and the simplest. Â Back then my favorites were Battletech, Jovian Chronicles (which had THE BEST mecha figures ever, even to this day!) and Heavy Gear. Â Edited January 22, 2017 by NZEOD Quote
Dynaman Posted January 22, 2017 Posted January 22, 2017 Yes, Dream Pod 9 (who do Heavy Gear and Jovian Chronicles) always had top notch art and mecha. Quote
This Confuses Gamlin Posted January 22, 2017 Posted January 22, 2017 2 hours ago, NZEOD said: It was its most fun when it was Wasps, Valkyries, Stingers, Warhammers, Marauders, Victors etc and a few hover tanks and helicopters. 3025 was the best codex and the simplest. And then we minmaxed everything with medium lasers and PPCs. Quote
TehPW Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 (edited) Nothing says I love you like dealing with a 'Mech equipped with hardened Armor (applicable to all fights after 3135)... http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Stalker_II Edited January 23, 2017 by TehPW Quote
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