Down to brass tacks. . .

[eugimon]

WTF??? My heart sinks for you. Best case scenario, the shoulders are indeed POM, but the stress marks are just from hasty careless assembly, and the cracks won't propagate and shatter (like eugimon's avatar).

I've been thinking about this.. was playing with my busted CF 0a last night.. and I realized that the shoulder halves have to be put together because the bicep swivel goes over and around the lower part of the shoulder. So I'm thinking the factory workers are leaving the screws off, assembling the arm structure, POPPING the shoulder onto the ball joint and then screwing it all together, this would stress that joint from the get go.

[ghostryder]

I've been thinking about this.. was playing with my busted CF 0a last night.. and I realized that the shoulder halves have to be put together because the bicep swivel goes over and around the lower part of the shoulder. So I'm thinking the factory workers are leaving the screws off, assembling the arm structure, POPPING the shoulder onto the ball joint and then screwing it all together, this would stress that joint from the get go.

This was exactly my thought. On my 0A (on the shoulder that's not busted) I can't figure out how to remove it from the ball without giving it a hard yank, even with the screws removed. Which means assembly at the factory must have been like resetting a dislocated shoulder .

Of course, the cracked shoulder just falls off with or without screws.

Edited June 18, 2007 by ghostryder

[miriya]

Want to see pics of the VF-0 with the Ghost? check this thread. the last couple of pages contain lots of battroid pics.

Thank you! That is beautiful. I love the look of the final product! Very sleek!

[Matt Random]

I'm a bit fed up with Yamato's escalating prices and questionable quality so I plan to downsize my collection. I want to keep one VF-0A but I don't know which. I prefer the color on the first version although the shoulder stories scare me even though I haven't experienced this particular problem. Has there been any confirmation that the Shin 0A has improved shoulders?

My VF-0S is a floppy mess but I'm keeping it since I love all the printing on it. I wish the Shin 0A had the skulls printed on it assuming that would be accurate the anime.

[Dante74]

My VF-0S is a floppy mess but I'm keeping it since I love all the printing on it. I wish the Shin 0A had the skulls printed on it assuming that would be accurate the anime.

I checked the anime to see what stickers I should put on my VF-0A Shin. Guess what, there are no markings on the tail fins of his jet. Weird, I always assumed he was in Roy's squadron.

[do not disturb]

I'm a bit fed up with Yamato's escalating prices and questionable quality so I plan to downsize my collection.

i'm on that boat now. i just sold my custom max and kakazaki and looking to get rid of my M&M's and whatever else i can. yamato has left a bad taste in my mouth and i don't feel like supporting them anymore. when my friends came over i'd go on and on about yamato and how their toys rock and tell them to go ahead and play with it. now i have nothing to say other than, "don't touch that, its gonna break, theres something wrong with it already". my friends who did pick up one or 2 yammies now have no interest in picking up the newer releases even though they like the mecha, thats weak.

[ghostryder]

I checked the anime to see what stickers I should put on my VF-0A Shin. Guess what, there are no markings on the tail fins of his jet. Weird, I always assumed he was in Roy's squadron.

I think he was unofficially "Skull 2" in the last episode, but you're right, there were no tail markings. Kinda weak, since all the CFs had bunnies or skulls on the tails. Of course, the gray hues of his 0A seemed to change from scene to scene, so who knows what's offcial.

[Matt Random]

I checked the anime to see what stickers I should put on my VF-0A Shin. Guess what, there are no markings on the tail fins of his jet. Weird, I always assumed he was in Roy's squadron.

Thank you for the info. I was able to take a look last night and I noticed that Shin's blast shield is plain gray with no skull marking. In a lot of scenes Shin's and Roy's planes looked to be the same color. Things move so fast that it is hard to get a good look and pausing doesn't help much since the lighting and shadows are always changing.

Edited June 20, 2007 by Matt Random

[DARKWIND]

i'm on that boat now. i just sold my custom max and kakazaki and looking to get rid of my M&M's and whatever else i can. yamato has left a bad taste in my mouth and i don't feel like supporting them anymore. when my friends came over i'd go on and on about yamato and how their toys rock and tell them to go ahead and play with it. now i have nothing to say other than, "don't touch that, its gonna break, theres something wrong with it already". my friends who did pick up one or 2 yammies now have no interest in picking up the newer releases even though they like the mecha, thats weak.

Could this be the start of an unfortunate exodus for Yamato products???

Who knows???? (duh-duh-duuuumm. . . . .) lol

But seriously to each his own, and sad to hear about your change of heart. . .

[Bub]

Still have a month to decide whether I'm getting one...

[Beware of Blast]

i'm on that boat now. i just sold my custom max and kakazaki and looking to get rid of my M&M's and whatever else i can. yamato has left a bad taste in my mouth and i don't feel like supporting them anymore. when my friends came over i'd go on and on about yamato and how their toys rock and tell them to go ahead and play with it. now i have nothing to say other than, "don't touch that, its gonna break, theres something wrong with it already". my friends who did pick up one or 2 yammies now have no interest in picking up the newer releases even though they like the mecha, thats weak.

Never expect to read this from you but, DAMN! Here, have some of my happy pills.

[do not disturb]

Never expect to read this from you but, DAMN! Here, have some of my happy pills.

i don't need happy pills, but yamato needs some anit-douchebag pills.

BTW, i love your sig.

[ruskiiVFaussie]

I am slightly more satisfied with my VF-0a Shin, I gerwalked, i batts and posed, and she's looking sweet.

I loosened my shoulder screws a little bit, so i gather there won't be any problems in the future?

All in all good.

And holy crap the difference in size compared to my poor little VT-1 haha!

[TheLoneWolf]

ARHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! F*$%, I AM NOT BUYING ANYMORE YAMATO VF-0 !!!!!!!

This is straight out of the box, from a reliable Japanese supplier from Japan.

This guy is staying on the shelf for display only....may be I should start lodging my shoulder replacement from Yamato again...

[attachmentid=43052][attachmentid=43053]

Mowe, can you confirm if the shoulders on your 0A are made of POM?

If they are POM, then we've seen the limitations of POM.

[eugimon]

Mowe, can you confirm if the shoulders on your 0A are made of POM?

If they are POM, then we've seen the limitations of POM.

I can live with stress marks, the problem with the ABCrap that yamato uses is that it just out right cracks or, as in my case, shatters.

All i know is, when I get my arms, I'm going to take it all apart, and re-assemble it starting from the shoulder down. Then I'm going to GLUE the fracking bicep swivel section to the bicep cover armor, so that if/when it cracks at least the pieces will be held in place by the covers... and this will be my last VF-0 purchase. Unless yamato or someone with a machine lathe decides to machine the arm assembly out of aluminum.

[Mowe]

How do I tell the difference between POM from the weaker plastic??

My new Shin Combo's arm looks the same when I compared to my old VF-0S' arm. I just hope it is POM and the stress mark will stay as stress mark.

Mowe, can you confirm if the shoulders on your 0A are made of POM?

If they are POM, then we've seen the limitations of POM.

[eugimon]

I have no idea how or if it's possible to tell the difference visually.

I know that the original ABS was pretty thin, to the point of being translucent... so maybe the POM is denser? or I hope THICKER than the ABS.

I wish Graham would show up and let us know what the real deal is.

[ruskiiVFaussie]

lol what the fark, not POM? Sooo... Whats my shin got? LOLZ!!!

[Mowe]

You know what, I really think it is more of a design flaw than selection of materials. There are places where the elbow part next to the screw is so thin, it just doesn't look right. Maybe Yamato needs to make the elbow /arm part with die-cast...

lol what the fark, not POM? Sooo... Whats my shin got? LOLZ!!!

[Dante74]

You know what, I really think it is more of a design flaw than selection of materials. There are places where the elbow part next to the screw is so thin, it just doesn't look right. Maybe Yamato needs to make the elbow /arm part with die-cast...

Nah, let's play it safe and go with titanium, it's already calculated into the price of these things anyway.

[drifand]

You know what, I really think it is more of a design flaw than selection of materials. There are places where the elbow part next to the screw is so thin, it just doesn't look right. Maybe Yamato needs to make the elbow /arm part with die-cast...

I share your pain! And this is exactly what I meant when I said "CAD is not a cure-all for bad design". The parts may be Computer-Assisted-Design, but it still takes a Human-With-A-Brain to realise something's too thin to support the stresses on it. As it is, the pricey VF-0S I sent my bro is still crippled in one arm because there's no way of getting 3rd party replacements in Australia.

[mechaninac]

How do I tell the difference between POM from the weaker plastic??

My new Shin Combo's arm looks the same when I compared to my old VF-0S' arm. I just hope it is POM and the stress mark will stay as stress mark.

There is no visible way to tell them apart. POM is a more lubricious plastic than ABS, but that's very hard to tell since I'm sure both versions popped out of the same tool. One way to tell them apart would be to burn them and smell for a difference in odor (different plastics have distinctive odors when burned), but that is a destructive test I'm sure you'd not like to employ . Lastly, since POM is a bit denser than ABS, and since both versions occupy the same volume, the heavier of the two would be POM, but you'd need a very precise scale to detect the difference.

In other words, you have to take Yamato's word for it...

[ghostryder]

A possible non-destructive test could be a scratch test - take the sharp edges of an ABS shoulder and a supposed POM shoulder, and scratch a piece of ABS (either a scratch piece or a busted Yamato). If POM is denser and harder than ABS, it will leave a bigger scratch.

Another quasi-scientific non-destructive test might be to tap the shoulder piece with something and listen to the sound. Denser POM might sound different (maybe a "plink" vs. a "plank", or a "ka-ching$$" vs. a "ka-chumpforwastingyourmoneyonthispieceofcrap"). I'd get as many test subjects as possibel to weed out sample variation.

Of course, burning the damn things would be easiest...

Edited June 21, 2007 by ghostryder

[ghostryder]

For you pyros -

ABS melting point ~105 deg C

POM melting point ~183 deg C

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

You might want to try painting it to test it. I heard paint does not adhere well to POM, so if you brush some paint and it doesn't stick, maybe its POM.

[TheLoneWolf]

When the 1/60 VF-1 was released, a lot of us asked why more of the toy wasn't made out of POM. Graham said that (excluding cost) it's difficult to cast complex parts out of POM. Simple square pegs, like the 1/60 VF-1 leg connector, are good candidates for POM. But that VF-0 shoulder looks much more elaborate than a square peg.

Perhaps the new shoulders were cast from POM, but due to the complex shape of the shoulder and the hand assembly involved, the POM's effectiveness is reduced thus leading to stress marks and possible breakages.

Either way, it would still be nice to know for sure if the shoulders are made of POM. Mowe, when I get home I'll break out my 1/60 VF-1 and see if there's any textual differences between POM and ABS.

[ghostryder]

You might want to try painting it to test it. I heard paint does not adhere well to POM, so if you brush some paint and it doesn't stick, maybe its POM.

I'd forgotten about this - good idea. Aren't the extra canards for the YF-19 ABS for custom painting, becasue the fitted canards are POM?

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

I'd forgotten about this - good idea. Aren't the extra canards for the YF-19 ABS for custom painting, becasue the fitted canards are POM?

I believe so.

[TheLoneWolf]

That's right, the stock canards are POM and the extra set is ABS. Good thinking!

[Beware of Blast]

For you pyros -

ABS melting point ~105 deg C

POM melting point ~183 deg C

Fyi, most fanboys' testicular melting point is right about $100 - $200.

[recon]

think i just paste whats being describe on the yamato website on the materials used in the construction of the 1/60 VF-0A Shin With ghost booster.

マクロスゼロ 1/60 complete deformation VF-0A Kudou thin machine with QF-2200-B ghost booster

Sale day 2007 May 30th

20,790 Yen in manufacturer desired retail price (substance price: 19,800 Yen)

The ghost of the color ring which is equipped as the booster is the decisive battle specification set which bundled is done in perfection deformation VF-0A and VF-0.

As for the ghost the equipment to VF-0 is actualized with the part which belongs, in order furthermore each one to be formed as the single unit, the landing gear is built in by also the ghost not only VF-0, also display with each fuselage is possible. In addition, to equip the similar booster in the play, deformation to the cartridge possibility!

Furthermore VF-0A itself has become Kudou thin machine color version only of this set.

Material =VF-0A:ABS, PVC, die-cast/ghost: ABS and PVC

At the time of commodity size =VF-0A fighter: Total length approximately 30cm/ghost: Total length approximately 22cm

Package formal = flap top attaching plenum chamber

Attachment part (VF-0A) = cancer/gun pod, 3 connected missiles, super pack and attachment for stand

Attachment part (ghost) = missile launcher pod ×2, micro missile pod ×4, attachment for VF-0 equipment

Belongings = marking sticker, instruction manual

Prototype production technical cooperation = flex

Prototype cooperative = good fortune mountain Osamu tree (solid)

As it can be seen, there is no mentioned of POM plastic being used in the manufacture of the shoulders

[eugimon]

why don't we just ask yamato directly? could a japanese speaking member please email/fax yamato and find out?

recon: the yamato page for the yf-19 doesn't mention POM either. so maybe they just don't feel the need include it on their materials list?

Edited June 22, 2007 by eugimon

[Mowe]

One way to tell them apart would be to burn them and smell for a difference in odor ...

Burning...tempting....

Actually, it appears that I am the only one so far who is having the problem, so may be I am just unlucky. For those who own the combo, have you guys opened the shoulder up and check for stress signs?

[recon]

why don't we just ask yamato directly? could a japanese speaking member please email/fax yamato and find out?

recon: the yamato page for the yf-19 doesn't mention POM either. so maybe they just don't feel the need include it on their materials list?

I was thinking about that too, either are they simply lazy to list down the parts composition or maybe the parts aren't also made of pom? One thing for sure, is either hlj or someone is being given false information?

We do really need graham to come forward and clear things up

[Omni Existence]

Calmed down a little and did a bit of digging around, see post #47 from Omni Existence from Robot-Japan...Link

Don't know who to believe anymore...

Yeap, here's a screen shot of the email I received from HLJ.Com. I was planning to get at least two of these, but if I have to spend additional money if and when the shoulder breaks, then I'd rather spend the dough on something else.

As much as I like Yamato and a staunch supporter of their products for a while now, but lately, their Macross products have been a disappointment.