Polite Questions on Macross7

[DestroidDefender]

Okay first of all I'm not interested in hearing "Macross 7 Suxor". You are entitled to you opinion but I don't see how those kind of posts contribute anything useful.

I too used to think Mac7 was not for me but desperate for "new" Macross I sat down to try and watch it again. This was my third time and I had read up a bit on the background. Despite dodgy sub-titles I actually began to get into the story and the characters. It's trying to put forth a metaphysical message about the power of music or art or self knowledge or something deep. I'm not certain is succeeded but it is attempting to say something.

I'm nearing the end of the series but I do have some questions.

In "Mysterious Ruins" Basara, Sivil and Gigil take off on some tour of the universe but in the next episode Basara is back with Mylene and Gamlin. Is something skipped here or are my subtitles failing to tell me they returned to planet Lux or Rax or whatever it's called?

Another question arising from "Ruins". Just how frigging tall is Exodol? Warrior Zentrans in SDF were about as big as a Valkyrie. Exedol always appeared short for a Zentran yet in "Ruins" be seem to be 3-4 Valkyies high! More "Anime Magic" at work I suppose.

Another one - is Gelpnich's host supposed to be male? I think the subtitle's are off here too. The Varautu survivor guy recognizes the host but the subs have him calling the host a him.

Lastly, is Mylene also an Anima Spiritia like Basara?

Edited June 1, 2007 by DestroidDefender

[Lightning]

the first one: Yes, they returned to the planet.

The second one: I honestly didn't pay attention, maybe the perception of how tall he was got thrown off somehow, if anything, he's just a slight bit shorter than the Valks.

the third one: Gelpernich's host was/is male, just with long hair.

the last one: no, only Basara is the Anima Spiritia.

any more questions?

[Zinjo]

the last one: no, only Basara is the Anima Spiritia.

I would dispute that statement.

On more than one occasion Basara's ability was not strong enough to defeat a foe, but coupled with Mylene's voice they became essentially invincible.

Thus both Mylene and Basara demonstrate the anima spirita ability, however Basara's is much more developed. Because of this he was quickly identified by the PD as one with anima spiritia abilities, not to mention his pelting their ships with speaker pods and then shrieking into them...

[lord_breetai]

I would dispute that statement.

On more than one occasion Basara's ability was not strong enough to defeat a foe, but coupled with Mylene's voice they became essentially invincible.

Thus both Mylene and Basara demonstrate the anima spirita ability, however Basara's is much more developed. Because of this he was quickly identified by the PD as one with anima spiritia abilities, not to mention his pelting their ships with speaker pods and then shrieking into them...

hmmm I always thought Anima Spirita was like the "chosen one" almost, his spirital aura had a special quality. and I also thought that it was some how implied Minmay was Anima Spirtia as well... or probably is cause she never met a Protodevelin to ask. So while Mylene's song energy can affect things, and even the Jamming Birds can to a limited extent, Basara has more/purer Spirtia then anyone else.

[DestroidDefender]

The reason I asked is that Mylene (with the Chiba Booster) can generate the glowies that transmit energy at/to/against others. As far as I have seen only she and Basara can do that.

And retroactively, yes Minmei may also have had Anima Spiritua potential. Although (in MacII continutity) the UN Spacy held off the Zentraedi for 80 years with just a recording of Minmei. That would argue that her success was mostly due to the "culture" effect.

I like Mac7 more than I thought. In some ways it warps continuity and raises most questions that MacII. And I still don't understand MacZero!

Edited June 1, 2007 by DestroidDefender

[Dio]

Recall, Gamlin was called "Alpha Spiritia" by Sivil when she scanned him once.

Sivil also thought the Flower Girl was Anima Spiritia, but never got the chance to scan her further.

Perhaps "Anima Spiritia" just means an incredibly high level of spiritual energy generation in a human, and isn't a title given to a singular being?

Side note: Gepernitch's man-body was named Ivano Gunther before he got possessed... very macho-sounding name for a character who is at one point confused for a woman by Basara (at least, according to the subtitles my series has). "Who's that lady?"

Also - LOL @ "Geperwhatchamacallit"

Sorry, I'm a Mac7 fanboy

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

The zombies steal the spiritua from normal people and go towards creating a farm so they don't have to keep feeding.

So spiritua must be what everyone has while the anima spiritua might be something unique to the characters? Why would sivil care so much about anima spiritua by stalking basara when she can just take spiritua from normal people?

I always though the the anima spiritua must be that special power that was needed to seal the PD and only select few people who had it could have the effect on people. The music puts the person who is singing in a state that allows them to project thier feeling into the audience like a transmitter sending a signal to a reciever. So it might not even be music but the ability to telepathically transmit the thought or feelings you have to others.

So maybe an actor in a movie might be able to create that same feeling, of bringing the character to life and affect the people watching it, which if the drama is good, can make a person cry or feel sorrow or happiness. Similarly minmay can make a song that makes a person feel sad or happy, and that might have been all that was needed to get the zentradi to tap into some emotion they once had which their training as soldiers was force to repress. The "strange feelings" the three spies had listening to music were just them experiencing joy, happiness, sorrow etc.

If a person can transmit the emotion to the target (ie basara songs was one way, but maybe the same thing could have been achieved through a book or a painting or acting) then they might affect behaviour and cause the PD to change. I see the whole anima spiritua thing then as just the power to transform someone from one state to another state.

In SDF:macross the effect of minmay's songs wore off over time possibly because she didn't put her heart into the singing and was forced to sing by her cousin just to escape. It might be a bit different if it was genuine singing on her part based on "how she was feeling at the time".

Maybe it's like how you might not be able to take a piss in front of people if you are nervous. But if you are relaxed the piss comes out naturally because you are in the right state of mind. So I think minmay at the time of begin captured and put in the cage in front of kamjin was too nervous (wrong state of mind) to tap into the spiritua thing that the pilots in macross 7 were. Because the song came without her putting emotion and her energy into it, (just being told to do it) it might not have affected kamjin.

Just my own theory on the differences. Some might resist the music and go back to the mind programming, which could explain kamjin's resistance to the music. (the feeling of revenge and hate being stronger than love from hearing a pop song and not making them as easy to affect) If it were just sound waves, they could play a tape and the effect would be the same but it's not the same in macross 7.

Edited June 1, 2007 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[azrael]

hmmm I always thought Anima Spirita was like the "chosen one" almost, his spirital aura had a special quality. and I also thought that it was some how implied Minmay was Anima Spirtia as well... or probably is cause she never met a Protodevelin to ask. So while Mylene's song energy can affect things, and even the Jamming Birds can to a limited extent, Basara has more/purer Spirtia then anyone else.

The way "Anima Spiritia" is implied in the series, it's in the plural sense or special group/category.

[JB0]

Sivil also thought the Flower Girl was Anima Spiritia, but never got the chance to scan her further.

I still think they should have done SOMETHING with Flower Girl, instead of just finding a way for Basra to blow her off every episode.

[Keith]

I still say Ivano Gunther was female, taking on male physical attibutes only because of the melding with the larger Gepelnitch body. Look at those hips! Besides, the character had Sayla's seiyuu.

Mylene was definately Anima Spiritia, just not as strong as Basara. Though in general, anyone should have the potential to switch between spiritia types, as it has more to do with the effort/passion you put into life, than any specific task.

Unfortunately, Exedor is the only giant sized Zentradi on screen at any given time, so there's no real way to get a descent size reference. Refer back to DYRL since he was playing himself in the film.

The effect of Minmay's songs were indeed nothing more than culture shock. Even she realized that by the end of the series, which is why she left to find a true emotion to put into her music (achieved apparently within a year for the Megaroad's launch). In the end, it wasn't Minmay's singing, or the culture shock that saved humanity. It was humanity's willingness to openly share its culture with the Zentradi. i.e. The 3 spies experienced life aboard the Macross, shared their new experiences with their crewmates upon return, and spread like wildfire across the Britai Adoclas fleet. That's why Britai finally made the decision to defect, realizing Bodolza would consider him contaminated anyway, he went with the better option for survival, as well as the wishes of all the men in his fleet.

What Basara sought to achieve was a more direct means of achieving that, sharing emotions/experiences directly through song, not just confusing the enemy with hit & run tactics.

[Sumdumgai]

Gepelnitch was male. A really girly looking male, but male.

I interpret Anima Spiritia as "moe". So they should gather otakus wearing those harnesses while watching their favorite shows/reading their favorite mangas/listening to or singing their favorite songs/artists doing what they enjoy.

[Axelay]

Unfortunately, Exedor is the only giant sized Zentradi on screen at any given time, so there's no real way to get a descent size reference. Refer back to DYRL since he was playing himself in the film.

What about the two giant Zentraedi actors who are at the cast party of the DYRL tribute movie?

[Keith]

What about the two giant Zentraedi actors who are at the cast party of the DYRL tribute movie?

They aren't shown on screen at the same time with him, so there's no means of comparison.

[wolfx]

Its impossible for Exedol to be 3x Valkyries tall. He should be around 1 valkyrie tall or less. His head in the bridge is of right scale. If he was truly 3 valks tall, i'd think his head would take up the whole bridge.

[Zinjo]

And retroactively, yes Minmei may also have had Anima Spiritua potential. Although (in MacII continutity) the UN Spacy held off the Zentraedi for 80 years with just a recording of Minmei. That would argue that her success was mostly due to the "culture" effect.

Actually the series really didn't present that whole "Minmay Defense" well at all!

The hologram was actually of a pop idol of the day, not Minmay. It was only called the "Minmay Defense" because it used music to confuse and distract the enemy long enough for Spacy forces to gain the upper hand in the battle.

[Zinjo]

Mylene was definately Anima Spiritia, just not as strong as Basara.

I agree with Keith..........*passes out from the shock*

The effect of Minmay's songs were indeed nothing more than culture shock. Even she realized that by the end of the series, which is why she left to find a true emotion to put into her music (achieved apparently within a year for the Megaroad's launch). In the end, it wasn't Minmay's singing, or the culture shock that saved humanity. It was humanity's willingness to openly share its culture with the Zentradi. i.e. The 3 spies experienced life aboard the Macross, shared their new experiences with their crewmates upon return, and spread like wildfire across the Britai Adoclas fleet. That's why Britai finally made the decision to defect, realizing Bodolza would consider him contaminated anyway, he went with the better option for survival, as well as the wishes of all the men in his fleet.

If Kawamori did intend for the rainbow music power to be part of the universe initially, then one cannot dismiss the possibility that Minmay possessed the raw anima spiritia ability, undeveloped compared to Basara, but present nonetheless and naturally powerful enough to "reach" the war hardened Zentreadi soldiers.

... not just confusing the enemy with hit & run tactics.

Wha?

[Keith]

If Minmay did possess Anima Spiritia capability, then she didn't develope it until pre-Megaroad-01 launch. Minmay's effect through out the TV series was little more than Culture Shock, which is why Kamjin finally threw it back at her, and why she at the end of the series leaves to find a "real" emotion to put into her music.

[Radd]

Just how frigging tall is Exodol? Warrior Zentrans in SDF were about as big as a Valkyrie. Exedol always appeared short for a Zentran yet in "Ruins" be seem to be 3-4 Valkyies high! More "Anime Magic" at work I suppose.

Definitely anime magic. According to size charts for SDF, Kamjin stands at little more than half the height of a VF-1. Looking at the 1/60 scale toys, Millia stands about half as tall as a VF-1. Maybe a little taller than half, but shorter than Kamjin. The destroids from SDF are all a couple heads taller than Kamjin, but significantly shorter than a VF1. A VF-1 is about 2/3 the height of a Battlepod.

Unfortunately, the size comparison picture is rather close to the binding of the book I found it in, otherwise I'd scan it. I know others have posted it on the forums before.

On the 'spiritua' thing, two things I took away from Macross 7 in context to the other series. First, it does not seem to me that spiritua is intended to be as "magical" as the directing in 7 often makes it out to be. I imagine if Kawamori directed a DYRL style movie version of M7, you wouldn't see the glowing light shooting from Basara or Mylene as they break in to song, it was more of a visual interpretation for the audience. Rather, it seems to be more of an emotional/willpower sort of idea. Technologicially, the Protoculture were able to tap into that. On another level, the Protodevlin can draw sustenance from it.

"Anima spiritua" seems to be a regenerating form of this will/energy/emotion. Anyone "could" create anima spiritua. Basara is not some superhuman because he's able to generate it, rather he simply has the right mindset/attitude, and the willpower to do so. In fact, it seemed to me a major plot point and the entire crux of the story was Basara trying to convince everyone of this, though he didn't think of it in terms of spiritua, but rather an outlook on life.

Edited June 6, 2007 by Radd

[Mr March]

Here is the size comparison chart I have scanned for the Macross Mecha Manual. This should helps illustrate the size of Zentradi.

[TheLoneWolf]

I still say Ivano Gunther was female, taking on male physical attibutes only because of the melding with the larger Gepelnitch body. Look at those hips! Besides, the character had Sayla's seiyuu.

I agree with Keith on this one. Ivano (Invane, Ivana, depending on the translator) Gunther is a woman who became posessed by a male entity, Gepelnitch. Since Gepelnitch is male, he still refers to himself in a male tense when speaking through Ivano's body. If I remember correctly, in PsychoKorp's translated script, when Gepelnitch frees the imprisoned Gavil he explains "I have possessed this woman's body." Most of the confusion regarding Ivano's gender stems from the finale when Ivano's body begins to take on male attributes. However, in this scene Ivano's body is becoming that of Gepelnitch's, complete with wings, tentacles, and a slew of other deformities.

I've yet to see any published material that states Ivano Gunther is actually male. If anyone comes across any, feel free to post it.

[bigkid24]

I still think they should have done SOMETHING with Flower Girl, instead of just finding a way for Basra to blow her off every episode.

That was the whole point of the running gag. Mean that is what they found to do with her.

[wldr]

That was the whole point of the running gag. Mean that is what they found to do with her.

I would agree with you on that one. I think the whole thing with flower girl is to have this devoted fan trying to give flowers to Basara and having him be completely oblivious to what she was trying to do for the whole series.

[Zinjo]

I would agree with you on that one. I think the whole thing with flower girl is to have this devoted fan trying to give flowers to Basara and having him be completely oblivious to what she was trying to do for the whole series.

Until the very end... and even then, if I recall correctly, he snatched it out of her hand while running by...

Edited June 6, 2007 by Zinjo

[Radd]

Until the very end... and even then, if I recall correctly, he snatched it out of her hand while running by...

Heh, that was awesome. She looked so happy that she finally got the flowers to him, too. And the moment he hops into his 19? Tosses them to the side and forgets all about them.

[wldr]

Until the very end... and even then, if I recall correctly, he snatched it out of her hand while running by...

You remember correctly, that's how it went.

Heh, that was awesome. She looked so happy that she finally got the flowers to him, too. And the moment he hops into his 19? Tosses them to the side and forgets all about them. laugh.gif

And that is exactly what I mean by saying Basara was oblivious to the whole thing. Even after he finally recieved the flowers, he still had no concept of how important it was to flower girl.

[DestroidDefender]

I justed watched that bit - she threw them up in the air while he flew overhead in a hang glider. He caught them and them set them aside to pilot his Valkyrie.

I just finished watching the series. What a long strange trip it's been, too. Not as bad as I thought. It at has some internal consistency at least and has a beginning, a middle, and a resolution that makes some kind of sense - unlike MacII, Mac+ and MacZero

Edited June 10, 2007 by DestroidDefender

[Zinjo]

I just finished watching the series. What a long strange trip it's been, too. Not as bad as I thought. It at has some internal consistency at least and has a beginning, a middle, and a resolution that makes some kind of sense - unlike MacII, Mac+ and MacZero

Wow first time I've ever heard a comparison like THAT...

[Black Valkyrie]

I agree with Keith on this one. Ivano (Invane, Ivana, depending on the translator) Gunther is a woman who became posessed by a male entity, Gepelnitch. Since Gepelnitch is male, he still refers to himself in a male tense when speaking through Ivano's body. If I remember correctly, in PsychoKorp's translated script, when Gepelnitch frees the imprisoned Gavil he explains "I have possessed this woman's body." Most of the confusion regarding Ivano's gender stems from the finale when Ivano's body begins to take on male attributes. However, in this scene Ivano's body is becoming that of Gepelnitch's, complete with wings, tentacles, and a slew of other deformities.

I've yet to see any published material that states Ivano Gunther is actually male. If anyone comes across any, feel free to post it.

I agree on that point Its a woman with all reasons mentioned before.

[DestroidDefender]

I agree on that point Its a woman with all reasons mentioned before.

Then I guess most of us agree and my Anime Sky Scraper subtitles can take a leap.

Ivana was a female possessed by a male entity.

Mylene has the Anima Spiritia potential though not as developed as Basara. Viffedas and Ray also manage to generate a Spiritua shell to protect a ship in the finale so I'd have to say they also have the Anima potential.

And Exedol. I'm aware of how tall he's supposed to be. But when he's being carried by the copters in #37 "Mystery of the Ruins" he looks 3-4 Valkyries tall. (Crappy frame grab attached)

I understand now why M7 has it's fans but I can also appreciate how difficult it is to "get into it" for fans of SDF. It's different in tone and focus. I think it's worth the time but others are free to disagree. Thanks for answering my questions.

Edited June 12, 2007 by DestroidDefender

[Radd]

Anime Sky Scraper? They just use HK bootleg subs, don't they? They don't do any actual subtitling themselves as far as I know. Take their subtitles with a huge grain of salt, or better yet grab the Central Anime version with some actual well done fansubbing.

[DestroidDefender]

Ladies and Gentlemen. Nekki Basara sings "MACROSS"

[Mr March]

LOL, surprisingly, it's not that bad compared to the original. Though I never thought much of the original song anyway, but still.

[TheLoneWolf]

Ladies and Gentlemen. Nekki Basara sings "MACROSS"

I personally like it better than the original. But, nostalgia aside, I was never a big fan of the original opening. Just a bit too cheesy for my taste

[wolfx]

About Exedol size, this is based on pure speculation. But remember in DYRL? Bodolza was a huge head? Maybe Exedol went through the same Mega-Macronization that Bodolza did.

But if not, i'll just attribute it to animation mistake.

[Zinjo]

Anime Sky Scraper? They just use HK bootleg subs, don't they? They don't do any actual subtitling themselves as far as I know. Take their subtitles with a huge grain of salt, or better yet grab the Central Anime version with some actual well done fansubbing.

Yeah, Central Anime did a great job with the show.