The Xbox 360 Thread Elite Edition

[David Hingtgen]

Problem is, when you need one for a bedroom, it can't be too big. And "high quality, small TV's" are basically non-existent.

[CoryHolmes]

Don't forget that Mass Effect almost certainly will have downloadable content in the form of new planets, missions, side quests, etc. to whet the appetites between the actual games. That should keep people happy during the long winter nights, unlike Halo which left us all flapping in the wind with a giant "to be continued" sign.

I'm more interested in figuring how they'll make the Mass Effect 2 story take into account all the possible variations that each player can/did play through in the first game. Knights of the Old Republic II did that with a line of dialog where you could specify which route Lord Revan took in the first game.

[JsARCLIGHT]

I always assumed that the game would let you "save" your character's ending position, if not in stats then in story... or that they'd do a patch or update near when the new game was going to come out to allow you to do so.

I recall some old PC games, like Heroes Quest (AKA Quest for Glory) that allowed you to import your final ending character with his game end stats from the first game into the sequel.

[eugimon]

Don't forget that Mass Effect almost certainly will have downloadable content in the form of new planets, missions, side quests, etc. to whet the appetites between the actual games. That should keep people happy during the long winter nights, unlike Halo which left us all flapping in the wind with a giant "to be continued" sign.

I'm more interested in figuring how they'll make the Mass Effect 2 story take into account all the possible variations that each player can/did play through in the first game. Knights of the Old Republic II did that with a line of dialog where you could specify which route Lord Revan took in the first game.

I don't think it will be that bad. For all the story affecting plot branches, there's only a few, if not just 2, outcomes. So in the next game you just have the appropriate character say the appropriate dialogue, like: oh, commander shepard, it's too you broke the magic mirror." or whatever. (Spoiler: there's no magic mirror in ME).

I just want to see what the consequences are... some of the stuff you do could have potentially HUGE ramifications in future games if they're not just dropped.

[David Hingtgen]

Exactly--a lot of people are thinking that (as opposed to Bioware dropping the ball) that the ending of ME 1 doesn't really show your actions on purpose---it'll take a while, and show up in ME 2. There's at least 2 species that are VERY affected by your actions, but it'll take more than a week for it to be apparent. (Plus humans of course). I mean c'mon---Suikoden 3 on the PS2 could read your Suik 1 character's name and stats from a PSX save file----I'm sure that a game DESIGNED to have future games on the same system read the info can do much more.

PS---I'm annoyed that the neat "tough decisions" trailer sequence doesn't happen at all. There's no planet "Castalon"? to go to instead of Noveria. And Noveria doesn't send out a distress call. That'd be an awesome option though---which planet do you answer the distress call of? Also that's the only time we see Ashley lower her visor--I always thought it was fixed, but it's apparently retractable.

[JsARCLIGHT]

This could be a spoiler then again it couldn't... but I recall pulling into a few systems and the pilot patching through frantic distress calls from planets in the system, leaving you with the decision to land and attempt their rescue or ignore them and move on with your mission. And the commercial you are mentioning I thought only had ONE distress call, coming from the other planet. The Normandy is landing on the blue planet and gets a distress call from the orange planet and they change course and land on the orange planet... or that is what I thought I saw/heard.

[David Hingtgen]

Actually, I never ignored a call, but none seemed to be "urgent"---as in you could leave and come back hours later and be fine. I mean, there's plot planets with distress calls, but you can wait 20 hours and 30 sidequests later to do it, and it makes no difference. Anyone actually "ignore" a call, come back later, and find them all dead---yet you know they can be saved since other people did it? (A lot of the time, they're dead anyways no matter how fast you get there)

Many "calls" are actually level/stat based, the communication comes in "next time you go somewhere at level 21"---you'll get the call, regardless of where/when you are.

[eugimon]

some of the missions won't unlock until you get to the specific system, but you can't get to the specific system until you get the coordinates... though, I did complete a party npc quest on accident without knowing there was even such a quest.

Also, there was one planet where the baddies respawned after a while (went there again mineral hunting) but there wasn't any sort of story ramification.

And some of those emergency transmissions I ignored while i completed whatever quest I was working on at the time. Including some whose descriptions made it sound like bad things were going to happen... and nothing bad did.

So, for the downloadable content, I hope there's stuff to do after you've completed the main game, and not just stuff that opens up mid-game

[JsARCLIGHT]

See, that is what pisses me off about Bioware games.

All this mock sudden reaction and timeliness only to discover you can do it whenever you want. There is a sense of urgency but no requirement to act upon it... a feeling of rapid response but one that is waylaid by the "eternal occurrence" system. It end up about just picking an order to take things in and following that order and things happen the same way regardless of what order you pick. They try so hard to make you feel like you have these life or death pending decisions to make only to find out that the "life or death" urgent distress signal you just got will be there now just as it will be there ten years from now. The whole "well, you DO get to try to talk to them or shoot them when you do eventually get there" thing is "decision making"... but that isn't real priority problem solving, it's just asking which door do you open when you have two weeks to eventually open that door.

It kind of wrecks a game for me to know that I have no time limit to make my decision. It kind of isn't fun when you are not "under pressure" to prioritize your goals at the true sacrifice of others. I like games that tell me "well, you chose to break your pursuit of the dog and rushed to save the cat out of the tree... but the dog you were chasing before has now got away and you have to locate him all over again and begin the chase anew". Instead you can rescue that cat at your leisure without fear of the cat dying up in that tree, or you can rescue the cat knowing that dog you are chasing is just going to wait for you to come to him rather than truly trying to evade you.

I guess this is the point at which a "scripted linear story game" breaks from a truly open ended "choose your own adventure" type game.

[David Hingtgen]

Well, there are a few real choices near the end (either or, not both), but you're right concerning 90% of the game.

[eugimon]

See, that is what pisses me off about Bioware games.

All this mock sudden reaction and timeliness only to discover you can do it whenever you want. There is a sense of urgency but no requirement to act upon it... a feeling of rapid response but one that is waylaid by the "eternal occurrence" system. It end up about just picking an order to take things in and following that order and things happen the same way regardless of what order you pick. They try so hard to make you feel like you have these life or death pending decisions to make only to find out that the "life or death" urgent distress signal you just got will be there now just as it will be there ten years from now. The whole "well, you DO get to try to talk to them or shoot them when you do eventually get there" thing is "decision making"... but that isn't real priority problem solving, it's just asking which door do you open when you have two weeks to eventually open that door.

It kind of wrecks a game for me to know that I have no time limit to make my decision. It kind of isn't fun when you are not "under pressure" to prioritize your goals at the true sacrifice of others. I like games that tell me "well, you chose to break your pursuit of the dog and rushed to save the cat out of the tree... but the dog you were chasing before has now got away and you have to locate him all over again and begin the chase anew". Instead you can rescue that cat at your leisure without fear of the cat dying up in that tree, or you can rescue the cat knowing that dog you are chasing is just going to wait for you to come to him rather than truly trying to evade you.

I guess this is the point at which a "scripted linear story game" breaks from a truly open ended "choose your own adventure" type game.

Yeah, honestly it bugs me as well. What's odd is that in the beginning of the game, there's at least one quest that is timed. Don't do it in time and it WILL affect your story (not just end it). And then that all that gets dropped as you progress further in the game.

edit:: actually, nvm. I don't know what happens if you don't complete it on time. I assumed there's other ways to carry on, but maybe the game just ends. I've never not completed the task in time.

I'm wondering if stuff like this, had to be dropped due to the DVD restriction? Apparantly, ME maxes out the DVD's capactiy limiting dialogue and side quests. If ME2 required an HD-DVD drive or HDD usage, would people not buy it? For me, if an HD-DVD meant more dialogue, more variety of locations (30 fractal generated maps with the odd "colony' here and there is < 7-9 really well developed worlds), I'd be all for it. Hell, put it on 2 or more discs and load up the HDD with stuff like textures. that would solve half the griping about load times and give us more of what we want.

Edited November 26, 2007 by eugimon

[JsARCLIGHT]

Well for starters this game is supposed to be an Xbox 360 exclusive, and the 360 cannot use it's HD DVD for games, only movies. Now, if they had made it multiple DVDs with HDD writing that could give them more space theoretically.

Oh and the "timed" section you refer to ends in "mission failure" if time runs out. Trust me, I screwed it up the first time through and let time run out just to see what happened.

[eugimon]

Well for starters this game is supposed to be an Xbox 360 exclusive, and the 360 cannot use it's HD DVD for games, only movies. Now, if they had made it multiple DVDs with HDD writing that could give them more space theoretically.

Oh and the "timed" section you refer to ends in "mission failure" if time runs out. Trust me, I screwed it up the first time through and let time run out just to see what happened.

ah, i didn't realize the 360 couldn't use the HD-DVD drive for games. that's kinda sad. Well, here's hoping that ME2 uses more discs then.

hmm, that's sad to hear. I was hoping there was another way around that quest using some of the other involved NPCs. It's annoying then that some of the side quests have multiple approaches and then the main quests are locked in.

[JsARCLIGHT]

Just to make sure we are talking about the same problem:

I'm talking about the first mission on Eden Prime when you have to defuse the four bombs in four minutes. I somehow walked right past the second bomb and thought it was on the lower gantry beyond the beacon. I walked all the way over there to see it wasn't there only to see I only had 30 seconds left. I was running back to the bomb when time ran out and the screen did the blade runner "you DIE" music and it faded to black and said something like "critical mission failure", the same thing it says when you drive the Mako into Lava.

[David Hingtgen]

Any "timed" mission just ends with you dying and having to re-load. I have yet to find one where you can actually fail it yet continue on with the game, living with the consequences.

[eugimon]

Just to make sure we are talking about the same problem:

I'm talking about the first mission on Eden Prime when you have to defuse the four bombs in four minutes. I somehow walked right past the second bomb and thought it was on the lower gantry beyond the beacon. I walked all the way over there to see it wasn't there only to see I only had 30 seconds left. I was running back to the bomb when time ran out and the screen did the blade runner "you DIE" music and it faded to black and said something like "critical mission failure", the same thing it says when you drive the Mako into Lava.

ah, no... I was talking about the:

rescue tali mission where you have 3 minutes to get to her before badness ensues. I always thought there was another way to get the information from the shadow broker

but according to david, both end in end of game...

[David Hingtgen]

Oh, THAT mission. Hmmn. I only had like 7 secs to spare the first time but made it. I wonder if you COULD fail it and go on. Kinda doubt it, as isn't that mission the key source for

proof about Saren

?

I have a theory that you can not get Wrex, or at least delay it. Going to try it next time. (not timed, but I bet you can just avoid him). Though he seems to be a required character, unlike say Juhani or HK-47 in KOTOR.

[eugimon]

Oh, THAT mission. Hmmn. I only had like 7 secs to spare the first time but made it. I wonder if you COULD fail it and go on. Kinda doubt it, as isn't that mission the key source for

proof about Saren

?

yeah, I know. I was thinking that maybe the

shadow broker

thing could have some impact on that plot arc. I'll have to remember to try failing next time I play to see what happens.

Edited November 27, 2007 by eugimon

[David Hingtgen]

Apparently you can find out who

The shadow broker

is. I know from being spoiled by someone who did, but I haven't seen that part of that quest. Maybe you have to be a renegade.

[eugimon]

Apparently you can find out who

The shadow broker

is. I know from being spoiled by someone who did, but I haven't seen that part of that quest. Maybe you have to be a renegade.

huh! I missed that completely then. Oh well, something to do in my current game then.

side note, playing renegade is rough, you say some really mean stuff to people. But it is fun to intimidate people instead of being nice nice all the time.

[eugimon]

So, MS really sucks.

Apparantly, someone has been using my MS points to buy themselves crap and I just noticed.

So I called them up and their customer support people say that they won't help me at all. the best they can do is close my account, but since my account was paid for with a pre-paid card, which is non refundable, I basically have to pay MS another 50 bucks to re-open my account.

The MS CSR supervisor helpfully suggested that I dispute the charges with my bank (BOFA) which they refuse to do, saying I need to dispute the charges with MS.

Now, the amount in question is only 25 bucks, which isn't a lot of money, but it pisses me off that this type of fraud is common on Live and neither Microsoft nor my bank will help on this. And now that I know my account is hacked, I'm not likely to put any more money on the account.

[TheLoneWolf]

So, MS really sucks.

Apparantly, someone has been using my MS points to buy themselves crap and I just noticed.

So I called them up and their customer support people say that they won't help me at all. the best they can do is close my account, but since my account was paid for with a pre-paid card, which is non refundable, I basically have to pay MS another 50 bucks to re-open my account.

Whoah! This has been happening a lot with Live accounts, but from everything I've heard it's from people who are sharing their account info with strangers who promise to get them all sorts of achievements and rankings. In your case, I have no idea how your account got hacked. It's standard Live procedure to close any account that's been compromised (most often due to user error), but maybe if you let them know that in no way did you share your account info with anyone else, they may refund your MS points. What I find most worrisome is that whoever hacked your account may now have access to your full name, address, phone number, e-mail address, and quite possibly your credit card info. Anyways, good luck getting this thing settled.

[David Hingtgen]

I might have to go make a uber-password for my Live account. It's currently one of my "high level" ones. But it's not one of my "totally random mix of letters and numbers" which I reserve for really important stuff. (I can only memorize so many totally random long character strigs)

[mikeszekely]

Not really a spoiler, but I suppose there are people who never played the game but might yet, so I'll stick it in a spoiler thingy anyway, but I need help with a side quest.

I've scanned 20/21 Keepers. The last one is just off the side of the Citadel Tower entrance, but the VI yells at me every time I try to scan it. How do I get that one?

[eugimon]

Not really a spoiler, but I suppose there are people who never played the game but might yet, so I'll stick it in a spoiler thingy anyway, but I need help with a side quest.

I've scanned 20/21 Keepers. The last one is just off the side of the Citadel Tower entrance, but the VI yells at me every time I try to scan it. How do I get that one?

you're still missing one, there should be another you scan.

Edited November 28, 2007 by eugimon

[David Hingtgen]

I have two different lists of them. (I never completed the quest, too much of a Paragon) I'm betting you're missing one in the Citadel Tower, one is up high and WAY off to the side by the council chamber.

Citadel Tower 1 Near Chorban.

Citadel Tower 2 South, near the Council Chamber.

Citadel Tower 3 East.

Citadel Tower 4 Northwest, off in one of the side corridors.

Presidium 1 Western side, near the elevator to Citadel Tower.

Presidium 2 Northwest, near Wards Access.

Presidium 3 Northeast, in the small room to the northwest of C-Sec HQ.

Presidium 4 North, in the small corridor behind the Embassy Lounge.

Presidium 5 Northeast, Volus and Elcor Office.

Presidium 6 Southeast, near entrance to Consort Chambers.

Presidium 7 South, to the east of the Emporium near a set of stairs leading to the bridge.

Presidium 8 South; take the stairs on the south side of the Emporium.

Wards 1 Take the elevator down from the Presidium and you'll land in Flux and Wards Access. The Keeper is in one of the northern rooms in this quadrant.

Wards 2 Northwest, in the Alleyway.

Wards 3 Western side, in the corner of the Upper Markets.

Wards 4 Inside Flux, in the gambling room upstairs.

Wards 5 Near the elevator to C-Sec Academy. Take the stairs down from the Upper Wards and it'll be near Officer Lang.

Wards 6 Outside the Med Clinic.

C-Sec Academy 1 In the Requisition Officer's room.

C-Sec Academy 2 In Traffic Control.

Citadel Docking Bay

[eugimon]

I have two different lists of them. (I never completed the quest, too much of a Paragon) I'm betting you're missing one in the Citadel Tower, one is up high and WAY off to the side by the council chamber.

considering what you learn about them, I wonder if there's some sort of pay off on that quest either in ME2 or in the DLC.

[David Hingtgen]

Hey, they're finally going to take off all those 0-point, played for 5 mins arcade game demo-only versions off people's achievement and gamercard lists. (It's been bugging me for a long time--simply because they were played more recently, it means games I actually spent time with are 40 slowly-scrolled slots below junk I hated after 10 secs)

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3164575

[eugimon]

well, there's nothing much I can do about the charges.

BoFA won't budge.. despite the fact I've banked with them my whole adult life. And MS just doesn't care.

So I've changed my password MSN password and enabled the login key on Live.

My account was paid for with a pre-paid card, so hopefully there's no other damage that can be done.

i guess for any future marketplace purchases, I'll only purchase the minimum number of points possible and try not to keep a balance.

In the meantime, I'm thinking of buy forza so I can play the track I "bought".

[David Hingtgen]

Anyone playing ME, awesome sidequest easily missed (I did):

Attican Beta Cluster / Hercules System / Eletania

Go there. And bring the thing you get from

the asari consort

I don't know if "the thing" is easily attainable as a renegade (it can be done but many don't have it) so it might be a long while before I get it. Darn, and I found every other

big prothean artifact/pyramid/temple

and none of them did anything other than get my hopes up for something cool. Apparently the one in Eletania does something. Though I swear I was there, but didn't find anything.

[mikeszekely]

I'm betting you're missing one in the Citadel Tower, one is up high and WAY off to the side by the council chamber.

And it would have been a losing bet.

Believe it or not, the one I was missing was the one you had labeled as "Wards 1." I'd gone around through C-Sec to the Wards, and thinking I'd seen everything, I must have taken the transit back. I'd never taken the elevator from the Presidium, and it was tucked away in a little room just after you get off said elevator.

[mikeszekely]

Anyone playing ME, awesome sidequest easily missed (I did):

Attican Beta Cluster / Hercules System / Eletania

Go there. And bring the thing you get from

the asari consort

I don't know if "the thing" is easily attainable as a renegade (it can be done but many don't have it) so it might be a long while before I get it. Darn, and I found every other

big prothean artifact/pyramid/temple

and none of them did anything other than get my hopes up for something cool. Apparently the one in Eletania does something. Though I swear I was there, but didn't find anything.

I'm playing renegade, and I got that thing you mentioned. As for the side quest, I'd actually gone to Eletania first to look for a lost probe, and stumbled on the other quest just by driving around a bit instead of going straight for the probe. I can tell you what you missed, if you'd like.

[David Hingtgen]

I know what I missed (that's how I know I missed it) but want to see it for myself. I thought having won there'd be no spoilers, but I keep encountering stuff I hadn't seen, or am already spoiled for some funny lines, renegade-only events, etc. I need to stop reading "I won the game" threads.

Annoyingly, I keep reading Wrex has all the good lines (and of the few I've heard they are), but I'm not bringing him along until the THIRD playthrough. (It'll mess everything up unless I decide to play as an Infiltrator on the 2nd run--but I don't plan to)

[mikeszekely]

I know what I missed (that's how I know I missed it) but want to see it for myself. I thought having won there'd be no spoilers, but I keep encountering stuff I hadn't seen, or am already spoiled for some funny lines, renegade-only events, etc. I need to stop reading "I won the game" threads.

Annoyingly, I keep reading Wrex has all the good lines (and of the few I've heard they are), but I'm not bringing him along until the THIRD playthrough. (It'll mess everything up unless I decide to play as an Infiltrator on the 2nd run--but I don't plan to)

Hey, a good game is one you can play twice and the second time feels fresh.

[David Hingtgen]

Yeah, but it's the third time I'm worried about.