The Xbox 360 Thread Elite Edition

[HoveringCheesecake]

I was thinking about getting a 360 for Mass Effect. With these technical issues, would it even be worth it? I'd buy other games, but when I started reading about Mass Effect I really wanted to play it.

[eugimon]

I was thinking about getting a 360 for Mass Effect. With these technical issues, would it even be worth it? I'd buy other games, but when I started reading about Mass Effect I really wanted to play it.

I think Mass Effect is worth it, despite its flaws. Well, let me re-phrase that. If you're going to play it like a shooter and run from one encounter to the next, the load times can be annoying. The battle encounters are also pretty short, so don't expect long drawn out fights requiring a great deal of FPS skills. The battles are fun though, plenty of running and ducking and the sticky cover spots work pretty well and the fight mechanics are fun all the same. And if you're stopping to talk to the people/crew in each area, then you won't notice the load times because they'll be insignificant compared to the sheer amount of time you'll spending going through the dialogue and story that you'll get from the characters.

Most of the voice actors performances are pretty good and the facial/emtoive system really does work pretty well and does give a more believable emotional depth to scenes.

As for replay value, i think it's pretty high. the various classes are pretty distinct, and there doesn't appear to be an all powerful uber class like the Jedi in the SW games. And there's plenty of ingame and character appropriate reasons to play your character as either either good or amoral (I know amoral isn't the opposite of good, but there doesn't seem to be an "evil evil" moral path). The game also blurs the lines, can you be honest, thrifty and law abidding and still be a bigot? Is there a good reason to be a bigot? Stuff like that, it's fun to chew it out with characters over their beliefs because they'll have pretty decent reasons *why* they think the way they do. I haven't encountered any 2 dimensional cut outs, even among the not quite good characters.

My main gripe with the game, is the placement of the gernade button. It's the BACK button of all things and it's still a pain for me to use the gernades without hesitation during a fire fight.

[Apollo Leader]

Halo theme (I'm talking about the music, not a background for the dashboard!) for GHIII on Marketplace, free, tomorrow.

[CoryHolmes]

Hopefully some of those Mass Effect issues can be corrected with DLC and patches. I'm reading some of the posts on their forums and apparently they had to cut out lots and lots of stuff in order to make the deadline. Hopefully this means now they'll have a better chance of getting it into ME 2 and ME 3 since they've already worked (most) of the kinks out of the engine.

[HoveringCheesecake]

I think Mass Effect is worth it, despite its flaws. Well, let me re-phrase that. If you're going to play it like a shooter and run from one encounter to the next, the load times can be annoying. The battle encounters are also pretty short, so don't expect long drawn out fights requiring a great deal of FPS skills. The battles are fun though, plenty of running and ducking and the sticky cover spots work pretty well and the fight mechanics are fun all the same. And if you're stopping to talk to the people/crew in each area, then you won't notice the load times because they'll be insignificant compared to the sheer amount of time you'll spending going through the dialogue and story that you'll get from the characters.

Most of the voice actors performances are pretty good and the facial/emtoive system really does work pretty well and does give a more believable emotional depth to scenes.

As for replay value, i think it's pretty high. the various classes are pretty distinct, and there doesn't appear to be an all powerful uber class like the Jedi in the SW games. And there's plenty of ingame and character appropriate reasons to play your character as either either good or amoral (I know amoral isn't the opposite of good, but there doesn't seem to be an "evil evil" moral path). The game also blurs the lines, can you be honest, thrifty and law abidding and still be a bigot? Is there a good reason to be a bigot? Stuff like that, it's fun to chew it out with characters over their beliefs because they'll have pretty decent reasons *why* they think the way they do. I haven't encountered any 2 dimensional cut outs, even among the not quite good characters.

My main gripe with the game, is the placement of the gernade button. It's the BACK button of all things and it's still a pain for me to use the gernades without hesitation during a fire fight.

I assume the game is somewhat similar to KOTOR? I must have played that game all the way through at least ten times.

[eugimon]

I assume the game is somewhat similar to KOTOR? I must have played that game all the way through at least ten times.

yeah, the basic gameplay is the same. There's just a ton of refinements. During dialogue trees, you pick the tone or emotional context of the response, rather than the literal response so the dialogue is more interesting and fresh since you don't know exactly what your character will say. And the battle mechanics are better. It's not like KOTOR where you could basically wade in with your lightsaber and single handidly win. Each class has distinct strengths and weaknesses and you'll need your squadmates for their various battle proficiencies and not just as medics and locksmiths.

[mikeszekely]

yeah, the basic gameplay is the same. There's just a ton of refinements. During dialogue trees, you pick the tone or emotional context of the response, rather than the literal response so the dialogue is more interesting and fresh since you don't know exactly what your character will say. And the battle mechanics are better. It's not like KOTOR where you could basically wade in with your lightsaber and single handidly win. Each class has distinct strengths and weaknesses and you'll need your squadmates for their various battle proficiencies and not just as medics and locksmiths.

The encounters play a little like a lite third person shooter, and are totally different than either KOTOR or Jade Empire. Mass Effect is very much like those two games, though, in the way everything else plays. I played for maybe an hour and a half, and I was probably shooting guns for under ten minutes total. You walk around, you explore, you look for crates, you talk to people, and each person you talk to is giving you little bits of the puzzle. I've only played to the beacon (I doubt that's a spoiler, because you're all probably farther than I am, and the crew is talking about the beacon pretty much from the moment you start the game), and I'm already thinking this is probably my favorite 360 game so far. Seriously, this is the first game since probably KOTOR that I can see myself playing and doing a "Holy crap it's 4:00 in the morning!" thing.

I was thinking about getting a 360 for Mass Effect. With these technical issues, would it even be worth it? I'd buy other games, but when I started reading about Mass Effect I really wanted to play it.

As for the technical issues, the only one I noticed was a cutscene at the beginning when one character, Nihlus, ducked behind a crate, and it took a second for the texture map on his face to appear. It was only like a second behind, and while noticeable, wasn't really distracting and certainly not game-breaking. I don't know what games you usually like to play, meh_cd, but I can't imagine that there's absolutely nothing else that interests you on the 360. Even if Mass Effect really is the only game you want for it, yeah, I'd say it's probably worth it.

[JsARCLIGHT]

For the brief amount of play time I had, I liked Mass Effect. The jarring graphics issues start to be "accepted" after a while... you still notice them but they don't bug you as much. Kind of like a scab... it still hurts, but you get used to it.

Another "complaint" that I forgot to list above that kind of irked me about the visual presentation was the overblown depth of field blurring that they use. At times it works OK but at other times it just sort of wert! shows up and you kind of look at it sideways and wonder why an item suddenly "blurred" only to realize it must have gone past a certain distance which the engine then says "ok, you are now blurry" . Kind of like the texture pop-in the blur seems to have two settings, not blurred and blurred, and the abrupt switching between the two is noticable... when you see it.

Also another "praise" that I remembered for the game is the whole "you decide your back story" thing. It's kind of interesting to be able to tell the game what kind of person you were before you play the game and decide what kind of person you are. Even in the minute time I played the whole "back story" thing was quite a regular emergence in the talky bits.

[mikeszekely]

FAlso another "praise" that I remembered for the game is the whole "you decide your back story" thing. It's kind of interesting to be able to tell the game what kind of person you were before you play the game and decide what kind of person you are. Even in the minute time I played the whole "back story" thing was quite a regular emergence in the talky bits.

I liked it in the sense that in every other game, if your back story isn't decided for you (like the whole orphan bit in Jade Empire), you don't really decide your background until having a wholly artificial conversation with an NPC. In Mass Effect, it was kind of cool to do it when you create your character, then hear people talking about you later.

[eugimon]

The encounters play a little like a lite third person shooter, and are totally different than either KOTOR or Jade Empire. Mass Effect is very much like those two games, though, in the way everything else plays. I played for maybe an hour and a half, and I was probably shooting guns for under ten minutes total. You walk around, you explore, you look for crates, you talk to people, and each person you talk to is giving you little bits of the puzzle. I've only played to the beacon (I doubt that's a spoiler, because you're all probably farther than I am, and the crew is talking about the beacon pretty much from the moment you start the game), and I'm already thinking this is probably my favorite 360 game so far. Seriously, this is the first game since probably KOTOR that I can see myself playing and doing a "Holy crap it's 4:00 in the morning!" thing.

As for the technical issues, the only one I noticed was a cutscene at the beginning when one character, Nihlus, ducked behind a crate, and it took a second for the texture map on his face to appear. It was only like a second behind, and while noticeable, wasn't really distracting and certainly not game-breaking. I don't know what games you usually like to play, meh_cd, but I can't imagine that there's absolutely nothing else that interests you on the 360. Even if Mass Effect really is the only game you want for it, yeah, I'd say it's probably worth it.

the fight's aren't *totally* different. you can still chose to pause the battle at anytime to issue commands, change weapons, use your special abilities (if you got'em), but it is real time... so if you want to shoot the bad guy, you have to aim and shoot, not just click the "shoot bad guy" button.

But yeah, this is the first RPG in a long time that really grabbed my attention and I'm liking the story and characters. It's pretty standard sci-fi stuff. A lot of it will be familiar to anyone who's read the uplift series, or watch star trek, babylon 5 or Stargate. But it's still pretty well done all the same.

[David Hingtgen]

My current opinions/summary:

1. It is VERY similar to KOTOR. More so than I expected. Excluding combat of course.

2. Graphics minor annoyances are just that, minor. It's like playing a game on a PC that can't QUITE handle it. It still looks good and plays fine, it's just not wonderfully smooth. Every stage/area is different. I can go 5 mins and have only one tiny little hiccup, or I can have 2 minutes of one staircase that jumps every 10 secs.

3. I expect combat to become more frequent as the game progresses. Again, like KOTOR, the first 6 hours is basically "learning about the world".

4. Combat's still "quick and not sure what's going on". I can obliterate geth in one match, then die in 10 secs in the next. A big part of it I think is in RPG's I'm so used to watching HP/MP bars, while in ME you gotta always watch your targeting reticle--so you can very easily not notice your HP bar is dropping by big chunks. Half the time that I realize I'm hurt and should take cover is because Ashley yells out "Shepard!"

PS--you can turn off motion blurring, and almost everyone does so. Blurring makes Vice City unplayable, in ME it's only "pointless".

PPS---a lot of it simply because of the lack of loading screens. It's partly a choice they made---do you want 3 secs of black "now loading" to show up every time there's a cutscene or new area, or do want it immediately 99% done, with the remaining 1% visibly loading in the first 2 secs? KOTOR had CONSTANT loading screens. ME has almost none. (And also the reason for the infamous slow elevators--of which there's like 4 in the first 12 hours--they're just masking the loading by going slow, instead of a fast elevator that then makes you wait 10 secs at the bottom with a black "loading" screen)

PPPS---many of the "cut" features were never there to start with and merely rumored/suggested from interviews 2 years ago, or they tried them and they didn't work well, so they cut them LAST year. Nothing was cut to make a deadline in the last 6 months. And they were really minor things, like Mako cannon ammo upgrades, etc. There's no "missing planet" that anyone can tell.

[HoveringCheesecake]

As for the technical issues, the only one I noticed was a cutscene at the beginning when one character, Nihlus, ducked behind a crate, and it took a second for the texture map on his face to appear. It was only like a second behind, and while noticeable, wasn't really distracting and certainly not game-breaking. I don't know what games you usually like to play, meh_cd, but I can't imagine that there's absolutely nothing else that interests you on the 360. Even if Mass Effect really is the only game you want for it, yeah, I'd say it's probably worth it.

Good to hear. From what everyone is saying the issues seem relatively minor. I'm not someone who requires 60 frames per second 100% of the time.

As for other games - I'd buy Call of Duty 4 right away. I'm sure there'd be others as well.

[JsARCLIGHT]

The issues ARE all minor, it's just that some of us (like me ) have ridiculously high expectations of next gen console games and little graphical blemishes like these drive me up a wall. Then again I work in a visual / CG world so my eye is trained (some might say predisposed) to notice every little tiny issue. I mean, when I saw the ninja turtle movie I was pointing out geometry inter penetrations and other goofs to people who had seen the movie ten times before me and never noticed them.

Oh and COD4 is a beautiful game and quite frantic to play but the storyline makes me want to commit suicide. It's depressing as hell... or at least it is to me, I'm kind of ultra sensitive about certain story choices and wordings that Infinity Ward made.

[eugimon]

I have to say, one thing I'm really enjoying about the direction in ME is that it takes a page from the Firefly/BSG playbook and it "shoots" scenes as if there was a real camera and cameraman... a big step towards selling this as an interactive movie.

[CoryHolmes]

I have to say, one thing I'm really enjoying about the direction in ME is that it takes a page from the Firefly/BSG playbook and it "shoots" scenes as if there was a real camera and cameraman... a big step towards selling this as an interactive movie.

But like Firefly (and unlike BSG) it does so with subtlety, and not with all the grace of a 2x4 to the face.

[David Hingtgen]

Oh yeah something I miss:

Controlling the other party members directly. Heck, I think I once played almost all of KOTOR as the other party members, just because I could. I'd really like that in this game. Hey, it'd be the only way to play as a non-human.

::re-read ME forums to get things straight::

OK, since it was in KOTOR, people expected it in ME. And apparently the E3 video from '06 made it really look like you could, but it was just the camera angle. A thread from July '07 said they were investigating doing it like that 2.5 years ago but decided to go with how it is now.

So it's not a "cut feature" like lots of people claim. It was never past the "idea on a napkin stage", but it LOOKED like it was there in a much-seen E3 vid.

[David Hingtgen]

Just a few more ME notes:

1. 30:28 in. (yes, I played every spare waking hour yesterday and today---definitely not going shopping today) Have done first chunk of 2nd-to-last place. Got the "did everything "achievement" despite having 1.5 places left. It was apparent you wouldn't need EVERY sub-plot complete to get it (which'd be imposssible) but I figured it'd take like 98% or something. So you really don't have to do TOO many "extras" to get it. My advice--skip hunting for minerals. I never completed it (close though) but it takes a LOT of time. Actually, if you do everything but the "get 10 of these" missions, I think that should be enough.

2. I encountered a big spoiler posted in the non-spoiler ME forum, though the poster didn't say exactly who or when, just mentioned it happened. Well it turns out said event happened very soon after I saw the spoiler, and it's an optional/plot point. Actually, I think you have to intentionally cause it to occur, as I re-loaded several times to see what else could happen and almost no dialogue options/choices lead to said spoilery event, besides the single obvious one.

3. If you aren't going for completion/exploration, I bet total time is cut in half. You could probably play a "core quest only" male and female, or dark and light set, in the time it takes to do one "do every little sidequest" play.

3. Neat little hint. Each weapon, tech, and biotic has a "mastery" achievement. Once it's unlocked for that specific weapon or ability, it is then available to ALL classes in ALL future games you play. So if you want a sniping biotic, you can--just have to use the sniper rifle a lot in a previous run-through. Also, you can only choose one "bonus" ability. No sniping bio-master stealth tech soldier...

If your first run-through is as a soldier, you have enough time and skill points to unlock 2 weapons easily, maybe even 3. Though I found out too late to make it worth switching to, so I'll just have 1 unlocked for the next time.

4. I'd suggest keeping the same 2 party members for the whole game. They have a lot to say, and there's achievements for always having the same person in the party. (You don't have to ALWAYS have them, just the vast majority of the time). Almost everyone has unique dialogue for every mission, plot, encounter, etc. Heck, I know there's stuff I still haven't seen in KOTOR. But next time, I'm having a completely different party, all the time, to see what the OTHER people have to say.

[Alpha OTS]

Crap. I just found out that that multiplayer zombie survival 360 game "Left 4 Dead" doesn't come out until early 2008. Last I heard it was supposed to come out this fall.

[mikeszekely]

Crap. I just found out that that multiplayer zombie survival 360 game "Left 4 Dead" doesn't come out until early 2008. Last I heard it was supposed to come out this fall.

Sad face? Seriously? I don't think I could afford any more games right now. I'm glad that Smash Bros got pushed, so I'm thinking I definitely do without Left 4 Dead this fall.

[Ishimaru]

Man now I really can't decide.

Mass Effect, CoD 4 or Assassin's Creed.

I'm going crazy over this decision to pick one. since thats all the monies I can put into games right now.

[David Hingtgen]

Mass Effect. Why? Spoilers. The longer you wait, the more people will post spoilers all over. If the story's spoiled, there's not much left of the game.

[Dante74]

Mass Effect. Why? Spoilers. The longer you wait, the more people will post spoilers all over. If the story's spoiled, there's not much left of the game.

...plus it'll keep you busy the longest so you can save up to buy the others.

[CoryHolmes]

Mass Effect. Why? Spoilers. The longer you wait, the more people will post spoilers all over. If the story's spoiled, there's not much left of the game.

He speaketh the trutheth.

Just a few more ME notes:

1. 30:28 in. (yes, I played every spare waking hour yesterday and today---definitely not going shopping today)

At least I'm not the only one I even took a few days off of work to get a block of free time

2. I encountered a big spoiler posted in the non-spoiler ME forum, though the poster didn't say exactly who or when, just mentioned it happened. Well it turns out said event happened very soon after I saw the spoiler, and it's an optional/plot point. Actually, I think you have to intentionally cause it to occur, as I re-loaded several times to see what else could happen and almost no dialogue options/choices lead to said spoilery event, besides the single obvious one.

One of the places this game falls a bit flat on is the number of different actions that happen due to your responses. As you said, some of them are very obvious, but there should be more results due to choices the player makes.

4. I'd suggest keeping the same 2 party members for the whole game. They have a lot to say, and there's achievements for always having the same person in the party. (You don't have to ALWAYS have them, just the vast majority of the time). Almost everyone has unique dialogue for every mission, plot, encounter, etc. Heck, I know there's stuff I still haven't seen in KOTOR. But next time, I'm having a completely different party, all the time, to see what the OTHER people have to say.

Once again, so true. I've played most of my game through with Ashley and Wrex, and I really like Ash's sense of humour. "Nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live here. Actually, it's not that nice a place to visit now that I think about it." Next time around, I think I'll take Garrius and Wrex to see how they interact (since we all know that Turrians and Krogans just love each other).

[eugimon]

Hmm, one thing I noticed about ME, it suffers from the same problem most RPGs do... namely, if you spend a lot of time completing side quests, you eventually level up so much the regular missions become pretty easy.

And I was wrong, biotics do give you near jedi like powers, even with the weak armor, you can pretty much wade in and handle three or four enemy units at a time with ease.

[yellowlightman]

Go with Call of Duty 4. That way you can get into some multiplayer action while there's a lot of people playing and they haven't moved on to the next big thing (i.e. Halo 3 come December 11th when the new maps are released).

[David Hingtgen]

I was a pure soldier, and the armor quality starts going up exponentially at the end. Like all RPG's--you are (relative to the enemy)weakest early, and strongest at the end.

Final boss is a big jump though! Way longer fight than anything before. Don't know if it was due to high defense, super-high HP, or a low hit rate. (It moves fast, a lot of my shots missed---I pretty much just sprayed randomly at points and hoped SOMETHING hit----biotics might do better, due to area effects)

Veteran and Hardcore make big changes---enemies start actually using the special abilities and have immunities/effects. As in, don't try to burn a geth, or poison "the most common organic enemy in the N-planet". (spoiler-free description). You will need to ALWAYS take cover on anything past "normal" and frequently change weapons and ammo (and armor upgrades) to deal with different enemies. Even playing just a few minutes on the harder ones, it's a BIG jump in difficulty. It's no longer "soldier can just plow through without even losing shields" it's "soldiers now live 0.3 secs longer than an adept due to their heavier armor".

Anyways---I'm going to stop playing ME for a while, until I have an HDTV. Going through again will be overkill I think. Better to take a break, and enjoy it all over again. I've seen people post pics of ME with the TV I'm most likely going to get, and it looks like a whole new game. I'm going to wait a few more weeks, month, etc until I can afford it and then will play my second game (which will be my "master" game where I do EVERYTHING and max out levels/stats--renegade female, of course)

I started another character, but a "throwaway" one I never intended to play long, just to try out some stuff. Also found out (after wasting an hour) that the singularity achievement cannot be gained by simply spamming it--it has to hit something. Maybe if I find an indestructible crate or something, otherwise it's not at all worth the time it'd take to unlock it for my future Vanguard. It's not THAT much better of a move, but I'd sure like to have it for my "master" playthrough. But not if it'll take hours and hours to get.

Barrier is the only biotic that can simply be spammed to get the achievement. All others need actual contact, with either an enemy or "interactive part of the environment"--of which there's not much that I found, and much of it goes away after one good hit. I don't think there's any quick way to get singularity for non-adepts, just have to play the entire game basically.

[eugimon]

I just finished my play through on normal difficulty. going to take a break before I go around again.

Anyone know when the next game is supposed to come out? I'm hoping some of the minor quests and what not have some pay off later on. I'm particularly wondering on the consequences of some of the big "moral" decisions you make.

Edited November 26, 2007 by eugimon

[David Hingtgen]

That's what I'm wondering. The trilogy will die if we have to wait like 3 years for part 2. Or even 2 years. I expect 18 months.

Kinda depends---will they use the same engine and models (hey, if they use the HDD next time and sacrifice just a bit of environment texturing for smoother framerate, it'll look very nice), and just new plots/scripts/planets? Or will ME 2 be made from scratch? Still, 2 will take less time to make, as they don't have to think up the aliens, backstory, and science all from scratch. I bet a lot of pure backstory you find in the codex etc---like "Salarian political history"---while not seen at all here yet still has an in-depth article, will be seen in the future. Heck, you can spend an hour just reading how the ship's stealth system works.

And there is the whole "how soon after" issue? A week later? 5 years? Can't be too much, as AFAIK it's supposed to be the same Cdr Shepard through the whole trilogy, and you probably won't want to play them if they're 60...

[eugimon]

from what I've heard, the ME trilogy is supposed to take place within the 360's planned 5 year life cycle... so I'm guessing one a year.

I wonder what sort of crazy baddies there will be in the next game... by the end of the game, shepard is crazy powerful. I played as a vanguard and by the end, I only needed my squadmates to open encrypted boxes. The spectre class weapons were so strong, between my pistol and biotics I was just tearing everything apart.

[HoveringCheesecake]

What? Mass Effect is a trilogy? Looks like I'm definitely getting that 360.

[Oihan]

...the TV I'm most likely going to get....

Which HDTV are you thinking of getting?

[David Hingtgen]

Currently leaning towards Sony 32S3000. It's 200 more than the 32M3000, but there's quite a few reports of issues with the M series, and it seems the black levels aren't as good, and simply has fewer shades of black/grey.

If not, second choice currently Panasonic's 32XC700 or whatever, not sure of the exact model name, but it's 700 I think.

Current biggest/issue worry: Humming/buzzing. Seems a LOT of sets do it this year, especially Sonys. But it's set by set. You can buy 5 and exchange 5, and every one makes a buzzing sound. Or you can luck out and get a dead-silent one.

[JsARCLIGHT]

Is that an "operational hum" (like a fan) or is it a possible ground feedback loop?

To my knowledge most sets are supposed to be whisper quiet. If you are getting a buzzing / humming noise -from the speakers- then that is most likely a ground loop feedback issue and not so much the TV's fault. It's been a long time since I have encountered a TV who's normal running feedback was so audible that you could hear it easily.

[David Hingtgen]

Go check reviews of any TV in Sony's "S3000" series. A LOT of them have a "transformer buzz". As do many other LCD's this year. Heavily influenced by backlight settings on some.

[JsARCLIGHT]

Yikes. They must really be cutting corners. I have not heard a new TV buzz since the '90s.

Then again the new TV's that I'm generally around are higher end stuff.