Starcraft 2: Wings of Liberty

[Warmaker]

I have to agree with you. Like I said earlier, Blizzard has a reputation of doing games right, not reinventing the wheel nor pushing the graphics envelope. Personally, I enjoy the polished, quality games they've released. If more game software companies put in the same effort and quality found in the games by Blizzard, we'd have much less to batty about and the worst we could say would be "too much of the same."

Blizzard is one of those rare game companies that people give time and the benefit of the doubt to. They tend to milk the time of development (understatement). But the end result is usually good. Diablo I & II, Warcraft I-III, World of Warcraft, Starcraft, and all their numerous expansion packs. I haven't played Warcraft III or WoW, but of those games, Diablo II was the only one that I tried that was buggy on release. And Blizzard furiously patched it and has continued to patch it for years.

In retrospect, I now agree that they don't necessarily innovate as much, but they give their games alot of polish. I hear lots of different players comment on how polished WoW is compared to a bunch of other MMO's.

They've done the job well for 10 or so years that the company's been around. Many fans have blind loyalty to Blizzard, and I think they deserve it.

Side note regarding WoW: I never played it but I was pleased to see how well it did. I don't agree with some of elements they implemented for their MMORPG, but I was happy to see how a good company can do with a quality, polished product.

[wolfx]

not really, there's a pretty clear path to the creation of the heros in WC3... C&C had unique hero characters that the player either had to keep alive or use to compelte a mission. SC did the same. WC3 then made them upgrade-able.

Those heroes did little to nothing in terms of strategy. As simple as making heroes "upgradeable" sound, its the upgrade that changes the dynamics of play.

C&C introduced units that gained experience, blizzard took that idea as well.

I believe they only gained experience from Red Alert 2 onwards. Don't think War 3 took the idea from them anyway since the idea of experienced units came from an older game, KKND.

Dune 2, released in 1992 had three distinct factions.

Different colors and different "final weapon" makes them distinct?

Again, blizzard doesn't try to reinvent the wheel, they just make it better.

I agree. I think the fitting phrase would be "injecting new life to an old genre".

MaxJenius:

It will be interesting to see how it compares to Dawn of War... for obvious reasons (and I just don't mean they're both RTS games..)

I was hoping it somehow went the route of Dawn of War in terms of style of play, but it stayed true to its roots for better or worse, ie: badly scaled units , units that do nothing much on their own ie: a wraith can't even kill an infantry in 2-3 shots...... that sorta thing, but otherwise fast and furious gameplay......and forces you to be on your toes always.

[grss1982]

THe link answers some questions like when did SC2 take place.

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/gamespace/up...slot&page=1

Starcraft II's single-player campaign will feature an all-new story that takes place four years after the events of the last Starcraft product, the Brood War expansion pack. Brood War featured campaigns with epic battles fought among the series' three main factions: the underhanded human terrans, the swarming zerg aliens, and the ancient and mysterious protoss. Each of the three factions were led by key characters, such as military officer Jim Raynor of the terrans, Kerrigan (a former terran soldier who later became "infested" by the zerg to become one of that faction's most powerful champions), and Zeratul, a protoss "dark templar" who, after suffering a series of tragic betrayals, eventually assumed leadership for his race.

[Arthurius]

Holy moly, this is bad news, as i had stoped playing games for a few month.... Now i see myself selling my soul to the devil again, along with every thing else. Those previews looked amazing!!! Starcraft was my favorate game of all time. I then got into RPG games and stoped playing strategy games, but for starcraft, i would go back!!!

[wolfx]

Boo....no hero units.....wth.....and i thought Raynor would at least make it back as something more than a slightly more powerful Vulture bike.... >_>

[Ishimaru]

Boo....no hero units.....wth.....and i thought Raynor would at least make it back as something more than a slightly more powerful Vulture bike.... >_>

Dude Hero units would just kill the gameplay, it made WCIII so crappy.

But I wouldn't doubt that they won't add Hero units that are just the improved version of its class.

I'm more interested about Kerrigan.

[Twoducks]

Think they'll add a new race? It would be the easiest way to make SC2 different from SC1.

The zerg animations look great. They now look like real swarms.

[kung flu]

Can't wait for sc2 to come out, i really enjoyed the first one. I think i would need to save up for a new computer as well, since the new games coming out are beyond my machine specs.

[Mr March]

Just read grss1982's link to the article on Gamespot (my thanks, not sure how I missed it earlier today). I have to say, the game sounds fantastic. My favorite quotes of information so far:

Rob Pardo has pointed out that unlike previous Blizzard games, Starcraft II will have no "selection limit"--that is, you'll be able to click and drag your mouse to select an unlimited number of your own armies to control.

The VP suggests that while Warcraft III often featured battles between about 20 units and sometimes between as many as 60, Starcraft II's battles will be much larger skirmishes between as many as 300 units onscreen at once. Apparently, most of Starcraft II's units will also, like those of the previous game, not require a great deal of micromanagement (unlke the ability-heavy units of Warcraft), and will instead be what Pardo calls "movers and shooters"--mostly autonomous units that can continously attack their enemies using standard abilities.

At last, the Zerg will be unleashed in a way the game always intended. Fan-fricking-tastic! And less micromanagement is the essence of a good real-time system. I adore micromanagement in turn-based games, but if you're making a real-time format, you trash it!

My other favorite quotes:

Blizzard representatives have stated that the game's special effects will "definitely make the game look good," but are being designed to have a minimal effect on the game's actual performance on your computer

What did I tell ya? Sounds like the game will run smooth.

THe link answers some questions like when did SC2 take place.

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/gamespace/up...slot&page=1

[promethuem5]

I'm pretty excited... I love SC and really, all they have to do to make this game just as fun is make more of the same with some new interesting units and some more storyline... sure add some new graphics, it doesn't matter. The only gameplay change I'd like to see is the bigger unit cap... I also always felt that you should be able to have massive Zergling swarms leading your charges and many many bread and butter Marine squads hauling ass around the map to support your more specialized units.

Come to think of it... I should whip out SC all over again...

[Max Jenius]

Man... I'm already anxiously awaiting the first time I hear "En Taro Adun Executor!" when I play as the Protoss (mah homies)

[Retracting Head Ter Ter]

While I applaud less micromanagement, it may be hard to balance the factions due to the advantage factions like the Zerg have in massive battles.

e.g. In SC1, the computer controlled terran tanks can switch modes much faster than humans. In a map with 1 tank vs 1 gaggle of equilvalent zergs, no big deal. In a map with 50 tanks vs 50 gaggles of equilvalent zergs, it makes a difference.

Anyway, its the cutscenes and background story I am most eagarly awaiting. Not the actual gameplay!

Edited May 22, 2007 by Retracting Head Ter Ter

[promethuem5]

I must admit the no hero unit thing is puzzling... I always assumed everyone liked them, esp. after WCIII, and I must admit, I really do want to play with Raynor as a super flexible Marine and then with his bike.

[Max Jenius]

I must admit the no hero unit thing is puzzling... I always assumed everyone liked them, esp. after WCIII, and I must admit, I really do want to play with Raynor as a super flexible Marine and then with his bike.

No heroes? Aw man. . .

[wolfx]

I guess as someone else put it, the heroes will be included in the campaign but won't be central in gameplay and multiplayer like WC3 was, like ye olde starcraft.

I wanna play as creepy Duran.

[Max Jenius]

I guess as someone else put it, the heroes will be included in the campaign but won't be central in gameplay and multiplayer like WC3 was, like ye olde starcraft.

I wanna play as creepy Duran.

I honestly hated the heroes that weren't unique at all. The "slightly stronger regular unit" thing always pissed me off. When those games were out, I'd just leave the hero in the base until needed (if at all) and use the generic units. Wow... that sure rules, huh?

What I'd like to see is Blizzard take what they learned from WCIII and actually improve the hero system, rather than regress back to the lame old days...

[Mr March]

The most credible criticism often voiced about the heroes in Warcraft III was the lack of balance. Many felt the heroes of Warcraft turned a RTS game into too much of a squad-based RPG due to the power of the hero units. Personally, I've felt Warcraft has had overpowered special units ever since Warcraft II. But that's really part of the Warcraft series. The "heroes" in Starcraft have never been powerfully game-altering and the focus has always been more on the regular units. I prefer it that way.

I'm not sure if the game creators have been all that specific regarding hero units in Starcraft. Technically, Starcraft did not have "hero units", they had special units and often the goal was to protect those special units, not use them as your faction's equivalent of a juggernaut. I think it's likely we'll see special units in the sequel just like we did before in the original Starcraft, but they won't be something that significantly affects battle.

[chrono]

*SPOILER*

One thing though, there doesn't seem to be any mention of the hybrid race that had qualities of all three races in it, that was hinted to in Brood War. Think Blizzard is keeping them as a non-playable race or just keeping tight lipped about em?

If you look at the concept art on the SC2 site you'll see a design that is actually pretty interesting.

"Along came a spider...."

------

Right now I'm up in the air over this game news. I'm not impressed with the slightly cartoon nature of some of the vehicles and the backgrounds being heavily detailed as they are make seeing your units somewhat difficult. The newer Protoss designs just don't look like Protoss units at all beyond the yellow & blue colors. The news about 'no hero units' doesn't really mean much because they'll need such tradional SC units in SC2 to simply advance the story with the same impact. Now they may be referring to WarCraft styled hero units when they say this. Which makes good sense.

Worth following though!!!

and many many bread and butter Marine squads hauling ass around the map to support your more specialized units. by promethuem5

I really hope this is so because that would really be quite cool. The same way for resource collectors/repair units, bunkers, fighters/flyers, & especially medics!

[Max Jenius]

Well that's the thing, make it so that the heroes aren't juggernauts, but still unique and powerful.

But yeah, it's not exciting to me if "Raynor" is just another bike. Ok... I'll keep him alive by not using him lol.

[grss1982]

@Mr March: The exclusion of original "12-unit limit" did also escape me while reading the article.

I just reliazed that without that limit we can now trully engage in massive battles. A lot more massive than the original SC, IMHO.

Edited May 22, 2007 by grss1982

[wolfx]

I truly wished they could've taken a cue from Relic and did vehicles with multiple turrets and weapons instead of just one standard ground/air weapon.

Imagine if the Battlecruiser had broadside cannons or anti infantry bombs instead of aiming their "main cannon" at one zergling at a time...which was kinda silly IMHO. The space only missions could be awesome and we can have some massive space operas.

[wolfx]

I want one....if it weren't so freaking expensive.

https://us.blizzard.com/sc2collectible/starcraft2/menu.html

[Mr March]

Bloody hell! At that price, I'd expect glowing lights with a rechargable lithium-ion battery (included), 40 points of articulation, a gun with game-accurate sound effects and a $30.00 mail-in rebate!

[Noyhauser]

@Mr March: The exclusion of original "12-unit limit" did also escape me while reading the article.

I just reliazed that without that limit we can now trully engage in massive battles. A lot more massive than the original SC, IMHO.

What, you didn't hotkey groups? man the best feeling was on a map max mp games setting off your waves of units against an enemy line.

ahh those were the days.

[Ladic]

some of the lines the troops said were taken from Aliens movie, I wonder if they will put them in again, that was such a cool touch in the original SC.

[Max Jenius]

I truly wished they could've taken a cue from Relic and did vehicles with multiple turrets and weapons instead of just one standard ground/air weapon.

Imagine if the Battlecruiser had broadside cannons or anti infantry bombs instead of aiming their "main cannon" at one zergling at a time...which was kinda silly IMHO. The space only missions could be awesome and we can have some massive space operas.

That's one thing I really liked about Empire at War. When you get all your capital ships into a big battle, there are turrets going off all over. Makes for some cool looking battles.

[promethuem5]

some of the lines the troops said were taken from Aliens movie, I wonder if they will put them in again, that was such a cool touch in the original SC.

I always liked the funny things they'd say after you clicked them a whole lot... the Siege Tanker would start cheering and the Marines would just get royally pissed at you.

[Max Jenius]

I always liked the funny things they'd say after you clicked them a whole lot... the Siege Tanker would start cheering and the Marines would just get royally pissed at you.

The only problem I have with that is that it's kinda tired nowadays... I want em to do something new... maybe add animations and gestures?

[Mr March]

I wonder more than anything else if the plot thread regarding the Protoss/Zerg hybrid that was left hanging in the secret Protoss mission of Broodwar will be dropped or expanded upon. Obviously, the P/Z Hybrid won't be a fourth "playable" race in the next Starcraft, but will this story element be embelished? How about the mysterious "creature" that Samir Duran really was, revealled during his brief exchange with Zeratul?

I've got mixed feelings either way.

On the one hand, I'm kinda curious where the writers were going with all this. Was it building into a true sequel or was all this just throwaway intrigue to make the expansion pack feel more of a dramatic story than it actually was?

On the other hand, nothing really all that important - storywise, I mean - happens in Broodwar. To be honest, the whole expansion pack really felt like just an add on, which was I suppose the point. The P/Z Hybrid and Samir Duran Mystery really didn't sound all that promising, especially in comparison to the great narrative told in the original Starcraft game.

I suppose I'll keep my eyes open for little hints of the upcoming story to Starcraft II.

[Boxer]

Well, most of the character cast was cut down on in BW. All that's left pretty much is Raynor, Zeratul, Artanis, Kerrigan, and Duran (somewhere), and Mengsk too, I guess.

There was also some additional mission in the console version of Starcraft, IIRC, which had some pretty strange stuff in it. Talks about Terran/Protoss hybrid tech especially.

[wolfx]

Well, most of the character cast was cut down on in BW. All that's left pretty much is Raynor, Zeratul, Artanis, Kerrigan, and Duran (somewhere), and Mengsk too, I guess.

There was also some additional mission in the console version of Starcraft, IIRC, which had some pretty strange stuff in it. Talks about Terran/Protoss hybrid tech especially.

It was in the PC version as well. It was an experiment carried out by the humans....probably trying to make ZergToss soldiers or something. Those meddling humans, 1st messing with Zergs with their little Psi-emitters and in turn causing the Protoss to rain down fiery "Exterminatus" death on every planet with Zerg stain, then marrying both races to create some super soldier or something.

SC2 might or might not have that story arc, but at least the Xel-Naga which Duran apparently works for will be featured prominently, according to that gamespot info link.

[Mr March]

Uh, that's the mission my post referred to. The secret Protoss mission "Dark Origins", activated when you complete Zerg Mission 9 in Broodwar in under 20 minutes. It's not console specific.

[chrono]

On the one hand, I'm kinda curious where the writers were going with all this. Was it building into a true sequel or was all this just throwaway intrigue to make the expansion pack feel more of a dramatic story than it actually was?

On the other hand, nothing really all that important - storywise, I mean - happens in Broodwar. To be honest, the whole expansion pack really felt like just an add on, which was I suppose the point. The P/Z Hybrid and Samir Duran Mystery really didn't sound all that promising, especially in comparison to the great narrative told in the original Starcraft game.

I suppose I'll keep my eyes open for little hints of the upcoming story to Starcraft II.

The Broodwar was a logical extension on what happened in the SC. Kerrigan was a rouge unit and the Zerg in leaderless confusion. The Protoss virtually leaderless and having civil issues with it's 2 factions. The Confed's were a mess. Sure the only thing that Broodwar really did was hint at a new super race, but it actually tied up the Zerg, Protoss, Confed and Terran issues enough so that story balance was brought back to what it was at the beginning of SC.

I really hope that the Xel-Naga are balanced and only slightly over-powered.

[wolfx]

Man... I'm already anxiously awaiting the first time I hear "En Taro Adun Executor!" when I play as the Protoss (mah homies)

Oh i just wanna be a nerd and say that now they no longer care for Adun, but greet with "En Taro Tassadar, Executor" since he has ascended to Godly status for his noble sacrifice in the SC1.

[Boxer]

I know the mission you were both referring to and this isn't it.

Apparently, the story goes is that you play as a group of Terran mercinaries sent to infiltrate a space station. Your ghost dowloads a number of items from the base... including shields for Terran vehicles or somesuch.

If I knew where to go I'd happily provide the link. Apparently it was a mission for the console version of Starcraft.

Edited May 23, 2007 by Boxer