The Dark Knight Thread

[Sumdumgai]

13 or 14 years ago, Gary Oldman would have played a scary Joker, and would have done it well. I was amazed to see him playing Gordon in Batman Begins. I kept expecting him to go on a psychotic rampage, or do something evil. He played Gordon well in both movies and broke my mental typecasting of that actor.

[kanedaestes]

I am definitely going back tomorrow, I wanted to go today but covering the Red Bull Flugtag in 98 degree whether wore me out.

I still think Dent is alive, trust me Two-Face is far from gone with such a great set up. Sure they killed Ra's Al Ghul but then he always comes back. This time around it seems like they learned from their mistakes and won't kill anyone that can come back for more movies, case in point Scarecrow.

[kalvasflam]

Just saw the movie.... and had a few thoughts

Whoa, this thing was rated PG13? What the hell? I thought the first half an hour of the movie was definitely disturbing. Enough to give kids nightmares or set them on a good path to being psychos. I have no idea what the rest of the Oscar field would look like, but the first half an hour was enough to put Ledger on the nomination list. The acting difference is quite palpable at the beginning of the movie vs. the end. At the end of the movie, I wasn't quite sure whether the Joker had changed persona or that I got so used to him being the way that he is I thought it was starting to become more reasonable what he was doing.

Aaron Eckhart I think got overshadowed in this movie. He did just a great job playing Harvey. A bit over the top at times, but very believable. The way they set up his fall, it's pretty tragic.

Christine Bale did a pretty good job too, but definitely overshadowed in this movie by the other two guys. A nice combo of toys for people who like the stuff. But the psychology of the movie was really good too. By far the best Batman movie so far.

As for a sequel,

Joker could be back, but I doubt it, I can't see how they could surpass this performance with anyone. I did hope that Harvey Dent would live, but if he died, there are others.

I don't have any doubts though that with something this big, there will be a sequel, I'm going to guess that this will surpass Spiderman-3 or come within a few million of it on the opening three days.

For the lighter moments, I did like the Joker origin

stories

in this movie. Thought that was hilarious.

Edited July 20, 2008 by kalvasflam

[Dobber]

INCREDIBLE movie!!!!!!!! Loved it!!!! I loved the speech at the end, almost brought a tear to my eye. I like the the idea of the riddler for a third movie...he could be more like the Zodiac killer......leaving his clues in riddles to taunt the police. make it a much more intimate movie about killings instead of the whole city is at risk.

Chris

[Sumdumgai]

Jake Gyllenaal could make a creepy serial killer Riddler. That would bring out more of the Detective aspects of Batman if the Riddler were more Zodiac Killer like. Just keep Jim Carrey away from returning as the Riddler, please.

[azrael]

'Dark Knight' sets weekend record with $155.34M

[Valkyrie addict]

damn, very very intense movie, I absolutely loved it, best batman film ever, I think Nolan, Bale and company are all set for one more batman movie

this movie was NOT for kids, hehehe, with how begins was and the trailer and scary look of the joker, I don't know how dumb some parents can be to bring their kids to watch a move called 'the dark knight'

I was so freaking shocked when they blew up Rachel I was like, dude, they really killed her, and I was a bit disappointed that Katie Holmes wasn't in this one cause I would have really enjoyed her blowing up to a million pieces

and I like how managed to finally show Batman as a human who has to struggle to do his job and not some nipple infallible superhero with shark repellent on his belt, although I would have liked if they focused a bit more and Batman's detective work, all we got was 5 minutes of CSI bullet science, hahaha

oh yeah, by they way, over here, we got 'VIP theaters' I pay 6 USD and get to seat on a nifty leather lazy boy seat very well space from the the others rows with waiters bringing me food if I want to

[eugimon]

damn, very very intense movie, I absolutely loved it, best batman film ever, I think Nolan, Bale and company are all set for one more batman movie

this movie was NOT for kids, hehehe, with how begins was and the trailer and scary look of the joker, I don't know how dumb some parents can be to bring their kids to watch a move called 'the dark knight'

I was so freaking shocked when they blew up Rachel I was like, dude, they really killed her, and I was a bit disappointed that Katie Holmes wasn't in this one cause I would have really enjoyed her blowing up to a million pieces

and I like how managed to finally show Batman as a human who has to struggle to do his job and not some nipple infallible superhero with shark repellent on his belt, although I would have liked if they focused a bit more and Batman's detective work, all we got was 5 minutes of CSI bullet science, hahaha

oh yeah, by they way, over here, we got 'VIP theaters' I pay 6 USD and get to seat on a nifty leather lazy boy seat very well space from the the others rows with waiters bringing me food if I want to

6 USD won't even get me into a matinee show

And there was more detective work: when bats figures out which cop might take out the lawyer, and it's implied that bruce figured out the mob/HK link off screen

[areaseven]

Wow...he's got his own town, river and province? I wonder how The Dark Knight will do over there.

[Sumdumgai]

I was quite pleased with Rachel being killed off. I hated her character, she was annoying. I really didn't think they'd actually kill her off. I had a suspicion that they might, but I didn't take that suspicion seriously.

[Valkyrie addict]

yes, the Rachel character was so annoying, the type of women who's always nagging and bitching about everything you do but always need/wants to be help/rescued... ugggg... I was glad when Batman showed up and opened Dents door to save him

oh yes, by the way, did Batman choose to save Dent or did the Joker deliberately told the addresses mixed up so Rachel would die and Dent be more easy to break mentally?? seems like it

[Sumdumgai]

I was under the impression that the Joker knew that Batman would go for the girl, so he switched the locations since he likes to tell half-truths and lies. Right address, wrong hostage. And what better way to attack Dent, than making him feel responsible for Rachel's death. Making Dent think that Batman chose to save him so that he could save the city, and left Rachel's rescue up to the not so competent/trustworthy Gotham City Police. It also wound up being a catalyst to allow Joker to screw with Dent's mind in the hospital.

[Guest sh002]

best movie so far

[eugimon]

I was under the impression that the Joker knew that Batman would go for the girl, so he switched the locations since he likes to tell half-truths and lies. Right address, wrong hostage. And what better way to attack Dent, than making him feel responsible for Rachel's death. Making Dent think that Batman chose to save him so that he could save the city, and left Rachel's rescue up to the not so competent/trustworthy Gotham City Police. It also wound up being a catalyst to allow Joker to screw with Dent's mind in the hospital.

I think your theory is sound. I just wanted to say i LOVED the line Joker gave to bats: well, depending on what time it is, he could be in one place... or many places.

It's one of the many lines i think of when I hear critics complain that the Joker didn't do enough joking.

[Sumdumgai]

I know what you mean eugimon. I thought that the Joker did plenty of jokes in the movie, it's just that not everyone picks up on the dark humor of it all.

"Oh! He wants to play~ Come on." or (appears in Dent's Hospital room wearing a nurse's outfit or (stops walking and swings his arms around a bit. Fiddles with the detonator] *click* *click-click-click-BOOM* [freaks out and leaps into the bus)

I thought it was fantastic the way that Joker didn't care if he died as long as he got to have his fun and prove his points. Standing there waiting for Batman to run him down, giving Dent a loaded revolver and letting him decide whether or not to shoot him in the head. It was scenes like those that just added to the Joker.

[Mowe]

Dark Knight did some serious damages to my kidneys...it was so gripping, I had to endure the entire movie without a bathroom break....

My hat off to Ledger, his Joker is now my fav villain of all time...so dark but so much fun...

Edited July 20, 2008 by Mowe

[Hikuro]

It was...............okay. I think I'll still like Jack more cause he was funny to me....but meh. ledger WAS good.

[eugimon]

I thought Heath blew Jack clean out of the water. With Jack's joker... I could always 'see' jack and it always seemed to me he was acting crazy. I honestly have a hard time seeing Heath under the grease paint and he WAS crazy, not just acting crazy. Watching Heath's joker was fascinating but also deeply disturbing.

[kalvasflam]

I was under the impression that the Joker knew that Batman would go for the girl, so he switched the locations since he likes to tell half-truths and lies. Right address, wrong hostage. And what better way to attack Dent, than making him feel responsible for Rachel's death. Making Dent think that Batman chose to save him so that he could save the city, and left Rachel's rescue up to the not so competent/trustworthy Gotham City Police. It also wound up being a catalyst to allow Joker to screw with Dent's mind in the hospital.

That's what I liked about Ledger's Joker, it was a very deep character. I agree that

he purposely misled bats with an idea of corrupting Dent, he also knew that Bats went and saved the girl the first time, so that might have given him a clue. But I think on a larger level, it didn't matter that much to him. After all, there was every chance that Dent was going to die, all that mattered was that he was able to escape once he got Bats out of the police station. His dark humor also added to everything, especially his origin stories, just made the Joker a bit more than your average psycho.

I just hope when the sequel comes up, it is done just as well. This one is the best movie this year.

[Golden Arms]

The problem with Jack's depiction of the Joker, you never got the sense that things got out of had for the Hero, or that the stakes had been risen to a dangerous point. Which was completely to opposite of this last film. Heath's Joker always seemed one step aheap of the good guys because they were restrained by their moral code.

[Mason]

I loved it, saw it in IMAX and it was totally worth it.

I'm really curious about who the villain will be for the next film

I can't see them going with Ra's al Gul again, it just wouldn't feel right to be visiting the same waters again, but we know that Scarecrow is free after seeing Cilian Murphy in a cop's uniform on the ferry, he's obviously found a way to escape, but how big a role will he play in the next film?

Some thoughts on the next film:

Set in and based on Arkham Asylum which could be a hunt for a

Joker

that we never actually see.

Scarecrow could play a decent role in a film like this.

Batman vs. Superman, I don't know how this could be pulled off in any other way than in Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns, but it seems implausible but not impossible.

Thematically, though, I get the impression that the next film will be centred around elections. We've now had a taste of the light and dark sides of terrorism in Batman Begins, and the struggle of the hero to pass the mantle or become the villain

wrapped in the warm blanket of universal breach of privacy.

This leads me to believe that the themes are climbing higher in the levels of government, which has me thinking elections. We'll see though, these are just trains of thought attempting to extrapolate the next logical focus of the Batman from the last two Nolan films.

I think any chance that we'll see Bane is completely ridiculous. Poison Ivy, and Mister Freeze also seem too flamboyant for Nolan, but a version of the Riddler seems possible, if not perhaps a little to close to the Joker.

Killer Croc doesn't seem deep enough a character, Clayface is too surreal, but Penguin might make a comeback.

Edited July 21, 2008 by Mason

[dreamweaver13]

I think any chance that we'll see Bane is completely ridiculous. Poison Ivy, and Mister Freeze also seem too flamboyant for Nolan, but a version of the Riddler seems possible, if not perhaps a little to close to the Joker.

Killer Croc doesn't seem deep enough a character, Clayface is too surreal, but Penguin might make a comeback.

actually, why not Bane? he's actually quite smart in the comics.

i heard that the producers are reluctant to rehash any of the villains used in the previous batman movies (burton/schumacher), but PLEASE i refuse to believe that the Bane in batman & robin (god please erase that film from existence) is the same comics Bane. Bane, the man who broke batman, a mere grunting thug??! ugh.

so i think bane is due for a "real" appearance in the batman movie franchise. and also, i've been racking my head to figure out which of the bat villains could be used in Nolan's realistic batman setting. and most of them just won't work, imo.

Penguin? ugh. please. no matter how he's played, he's just to ugh for a nolan batman.

Poison Ivy, Freeze, Clayface are almost in the realm of fantasy-sci fi, so i don't see them working in nolan's gotham.

Man-Bat just can't be taken too seriously.

Killer Croc was already done in Gotham Nights, and is more thug than mastermind.

Riddler is possible if done right, but right after a movie that dealt with the Joker? might become duplicitous.

Catwoman would work, but not as the main supervillain.

which leaves us with bane. the REAL bane, mind you. realistic, intelligent, physically superior to batman, and will at one point gravely incapacitate him. this could tie in with gotham city actually needing batman, even though he's a wanted criminal. his absence would be noticed.

so why not Bane?

[eugimon]

Bane doesn't work because he doesn't fit the villain theme.

Ras is the twisted sense of justice that Bruce has. Joker is the anti-batman, an agent of chaos and Two-Face is the anti-bruce wayne.

What is bane but a walking plot device? The riddler makes sense because he plays off of bruce's intelligence and sleuthing skills.

[Mason]

I think they'd want to re-invent a classic character, and Bane just doesn't fit that profile.

I agree with eugimon, the villains have to reflect an aspect of Batman/Wayne, or else they're just walking devices that lack depth.

I'm not a fan of seeing the Penguin come back, as I think Penguin and Catwoman were done perfectly by Burton, but Carry's Riddler is laughable enough to be forgotten, as was Tommy Lee Jones' Two-Face.

These are all the reasons why I think Batman's next villain will be another super-hero, now he has to fight to keep the freaks out of Gotham in order that the "Dents" can restore legitimate governance to the city. Maybe I'm just too eager to see Batman zap Superman with several billion volts from the city's power supply.

Maybe it will be Catwoman after all.

Edited July 21, 2008 by Mason

[dreamweaver13]

I think they'd want to re-invent a classic character, and Bane just doesn't fit that profile.

I agree with eugimon, the villains have to reflect an aspect of Batman/Wayne, or else they're just walking devices that lack depth.

I'm not a fan of seeing the Penguin come back, as I think Penguin and Catwoman were done perfectly by Burton, but Carry's Riddler is laughable enough to be forgotten, as was Tommy Lee Jones' Two-Face.

These are all the reasons why I think Batman's next villain will be another super-hero, now he has to fight to keep the freaks out of Gotham in order that the "Dents" can restore legitimate governance to the city. Maybe I'm just too eager to see Batman zap Superman with several billion volts from the city's power supply.

Maybe it will be Catwoman after all.

well i, for one, certainly wouldn't mind that scenario. after all, christian bale would kick brandon routh's ass anyday of the week and twice on sundays.

i see you point with bane. i guess thinking up the next villain will be difficult. everyone else is almost in the realm of "camp", and i surely don't see Nolan going in that direction. nor do i want him to. catwoman is indeed the only reasonable one left....

actually, the only reason i WANT there to be another batman movie is the batcave. it just ain't the same without the Batcave! it was almost all there: the hight tech equipment, forensics and detective tools... but i need something for my Batcave fix, so part 3 it is!

[eugimon]

Catwoman could work if they play up her robin hood characteristics, playing off of bruce's willingness to break the law for a "higher good" but I don't know think she would be the A plot.

[azrael]

I'd suggest you guys look at something from the History Channel for how to play characters:

http://www.history.com/shows.do?action=det...pisodeId=322796

Some of you may have missed it and there are torrents for the special on the bigger torrent sites (BTjunkie, Mini Nova, etc.), but take a look at it. It might give some ideas on what to do.

-Dan Didio, Editor and VP of DC, describes Penguin as the immoral version of Bruce Wayne/Bats. If used unwisely, Bruce Wayne would be Cobblepot. This would be the "legitimate" business-man angle. The anti-WayneCorp.

-The show describes Riddler as a person with Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD), which is true. Now you could play Riddler's need to leave clues as an equal to Bruce Wayne's need to avenge what happened to his parents. It's something he has to do.

-Catwoman is described as a character that is just like Batman, but as someone who will cross those lines that Batman does not.

[Golden Arms]

Catwoman or Riddler make the most sense. But especially Catwoman. She has so much potential especially if they decide to go with one of her original origins of being a call girl. They could play her as a robin Hood type. She could be someone that comes from adverse economic conditions( tied into the plot from the 1st film) which was due to Rah's plan for Gotham.

Other notable villians to choose from:

Firefly

Harley Quinn

Scarface

Penguin

Talia

[Shmitty]

It looks like they blew their villain load with the Joker. It seems pretty clear that they had intended for him to make a return. There just aren't any villains that Batman deals with that are a bigger threat than him. The only one who seems bigger is Ra's, and they pretty much killed him already. Maybe Black Mask? I dunno, he's not too well known. The Riddler just doesn't seem like a big threat, and while I'm sure Nolan and crew could make him one, it seems like they'd have to fundamentally change part of the character.

Edited July 21, 2008 by Shmitty

[eugimon]

Catwoman or Riddler make the most sense. But especially Catwoman. She has so much potential especially if they decide to go with one of her original origins of being a call girl. They could play her as a robin Hood type. She could be someone that comes from adverse economic conditions( tied into the plot from the 1st film) which was due to Rah's plan for Gotham.

Other notable villians to choose from:

Firefly

Harley Quinn

Scarface

Penguin

Talia

catwoman has so much potential, it can play on Bruce's need to redeem and what azrael posted about Penguin sounds like a much more interesting take on the character than what burton/devito did with him.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

The Mad Hatter. A psychotic version of him using mind controlled gang members dressed up as super villains from comic books (think of the movie "the warriors" but with a "comic book villain" gang) whose sole task is to fight batman to justify why there must be a third movie.

Edited July 21, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Keith]

Just saw it today, and to my surprise really liked it despite my hatred for Christian Bale, and lukewarm impression of Begins. Though CB's "Batman Voice" still sucked ass.

I also wouldn't put it past Nolan to re-cast Joker if he really wanted to use him again. The only question is who.

Edited July 21, 2008 by Keith

[Scream Man]

yeah but he doesnt pose an ethical question on Batman/Bruce like Ra's and Joker do. Bane crippling Bruce would raise isues on his commitment to being Batman, and how far he will go for his Justice.

i actually think Lockdown or Deadshot would be good choices.

[fifbeat]

Great movie. Heath totally carried it though. What a Joker that guy makes. =)

[Mason]

Was anyone else thinking that the scene where

Batman is taking down the SWAT team as they're trying to take out Joker's goons who were actually hostages

was a lot like Major Kusanagi receiving a live feed from Ishikawa and the Tachikomas?

EDIT: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25681350/

Edited July 21, 2008 by Mason