SW: The Old Republic MMO

[mikeszekely]

I swore I'd never play an MMO. I managed to stay away from Everquest when that's all my friends did. Avoided Galaxies both when people were looking forward to it and when people were hating it. Turned a blind eye to City of Heroes. Closest I came to playing WoW was when a friend created a character on his wife's account for me to try to get me into the game... a character I played for all of five minutes before looking for something else to do. And despite their plaintive cries of "it's different, you'll like it" I managed not to go with pretty much everyone I hang out with to pick up Warhammer Online.

...but I must play Old Republic. It's just that simple.

[David Hingtgen]

Seconded. I've never played an MMO, have no desire. But I must play "new Bioware RPG". Being KOTOR(ish) is just a bonus. I've already made an account at SWOTR.com (I'm a huge KOTOR fan, and really of all Bioware games)

My only concern (based on a quick glance at the boards) is that it may be made to cater too much to the Galaxies players, and it seems that's what all the Galaxies players are expecting/wanting--"SWG 2"----they practically want to import their character, re-form the guilds and servers, and "pick up where they left off". But I expect(and hope) that it will be *KOTOR*, just played online, and that Bioware couldn't care less about what Galaxies was like.

[Duke Togo]

My only concern (based on a quick glance at the boards) is that it may be made to cater too much to the Galaxies players

No, just stop there. These games are of no relation.

[David Hingtgen]

Yes, but it is a SW MMO, so there are some "expectations" based on what came before (even if I have none) and you never know how much power Lucasarts will exert over Bioware.

[eugimon]

I don't think bioware would have done this with Lucasarts unless they had at least equal say. SW:G is widely regarded as a failure... if not an outright joke, an example of how to drive a game into the ground... while Bioware is widely regarded as the one of the, if not THE, finest western RPG studios around. If lucasarts had even half a brain cell left they would back the hell off and let bioware handle it and just support them story and art.

[mikeszekely]

Yes, but it is a SW MMO, so there are some "expectations" based on what came before (even if I have none) and you never know how much power Lucasarts will exert over Bioware.

From Kotaku's coverage of the reveal:

The title has already been formally announced as a PC release, a successor to the Knights of the Old Republic role-playing games and not designed as a replacement for Star Wars Galaxies.

[Duke Togo]

Yes, and I've seen this several other places; alot of people going on about SWG. These games are related in name only.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

I hope the new installment follows up on Revan's journey from the first KOTOR. God I love that storyline.

[Uxi]

Eh... sounds like he either went bad again or got defeated. Willing to bet it was the former more than the latter and we'll probably run into him as an emperor-style decrepit. A holocron at the least.

This game could do so well as to bring back the original skills, crafting, and economy system from SWG. I actually do prefer Jedi Outcast/Academy style twitchy combat but certainly am not optimistic enough to expect it. As long as they go a bit more realistic than the cartoony stuff I'm seeing on the site (which is most of what has kept me out of WoW all this time), I'll certainly join it to try out. Hopefully there's starfighter/space combat, to go with the exploration. Definitely want that Twitchy (SWG excecuted well on that, too).

[lord_breetai]

I hope the new installment follows up on Revan's journey from the first KOTOR. God I love that storyline.

He and the Jedi Exile after him left the Galaxy to go find and confront the True Sith... which are apparantly this Sith Empire which is invading... so as stated both Revan and the Exile probably fell (either litterally in battle or to the Dark Side), I would expect to see both of them have their prescence felt but not neccisarily still be alive. Finding a Holocron or something telling us what happened to them.

[Duke Togo]

I hope the new installment follows up on Revan's journey from the first KOTOR. God I love that storyline.

300 years after KotOR, Revan is long dead.

[lord_breetai]

300 years after KotOR, Revan is long dead.

No not neccisarily... there have been established cases of human Jedi or Sith (and remember Revan is trained as both) managing to extend their life for hundreds of years.

Look at the Sith Lord in the Star Wars Legacy comics who turns out to be Ash'ard Hett who was a Padawan before the Clone Wars and is alive more then a 100 years after the destruction of the second Death Star.

You can say that's EU so it dosn't count... but this is EU too.

They said that characters who could still be alive might show up... that includes Revan and the Exile.... though personally I would hope they woud not be included directly.

Edited October 22, 2008 by lord_breetai

[Duke Togo]

300 year old humans? I just don't know.

[David Hingtgen]

It's up at the SWTOR.com FAQ. Basically it follows what KOTOR 2 said: Revan left to find/prepare for the real threat, the "true" Sith Empire from beyond the outer rim. Well, it's been 300 years, and Revan never returned, but the Sith Empire did. Quote:

"How does Star Wars: The Old Republic relate to Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic?

Star Wars: The Old Republic takes place approximately three hundred years after the events of Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic (KOTOR). At the conclusion of the Jedi Civil War in KOTOR, Revan disappeared into unknown space in search of a great threat to the Republic, an expanding Sith Empire led by a mysterious Emperor who planned vengeance for his ancient Jedi enemies. Revan never returned from unknown space, but the Sith Empire did, kicking off a war with the Republic that lasted for decades. Now, despite the uneasy truce created by the Treaty of Coruscant, the tension among the divided star systems is threatening to once again tear the galaxy apart.

Will I see any characters from Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic?

Given that it is approximately 300 years since the events of Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, many of the characters have passed away. However, their legacy does live on as many of their descendants will be part of Star Wars: The Old Republic. Some droids can last a long time as well."

PS--one of the avatars available looks a lot like HK-47. If not him, than certainly an HK series.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

At the very least I guess we can expect HK-47. I'd like to think Revan died in battle, rather than rejoin the dark side.

[lord_breetai]

300 year old humans? I just don't know.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Krayt

Here we go Darth Krayt about 184 years old at the start of Star Wars Legacy... so... yeah take from that what you will.

[transfan52]

You can be a member of the Sith Empire but be "good". This is certainly interesting.

LMFAO wow what an oxy moron I thought the sith were all evil just by affiliation... Its like being a nazi and being a good guy? hmm...

[lord_breetai]

LMFAO wow what an oxy moron I thought the sith were all evil just by affiliation... Its like being a nazi and being a good guy? hmm...

More like being a patriot in the German army or the Japanese Imperial Army who has high morals and believes that what they are doing is right.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

In KOTOR, I felt that the Jedi Order was doomed to failure, eventually some of them would crack and realize that the Order was flawed, especially in KOTOR I. My feeling is that it is better to become Sith, then return, not completely by the book like the jedi, but not inherently evil like the Sith, basically what Revan does in KOTOR I if you choose to go light side.

[David Hingtgen]

It's scary over at the SWTOR forums. Everyone there seems to be "truly hard-core Galaxies fans". And they want a sequel to it, a long-term, hard-core MMO where only the guy with 3,000 hours invested can be a Jedi and a purple saber crystal would be the rarest thing possible...

Sigh, I really want to post a "Dear Bioware, please don't listen to anyone at this forum especially if they're a bitter ex-Galaxies player, make the game how you want" thread there, but I figure it'd get a pretty negative reaction.

[Duke Togo]

It's scary over at the SWTOR forums. Everyone there seems to be "truly hard-core Galaxies fans". And they want a sequel to it, a long-term, hard-core MMO where only the guy with 3,000 hours invested can be a Jedi and a purple saber crystal would be the rarest thing possible...

Sigh, I really want to post a "Dear Bioware, please don't listen to anyone at this forum especially if they're a bitter ex-Galaxies player, make the game how you want" thread there, but I figure it'd get a pretty negative reaction.

I wouldn't worry about it, Bioware is making a Bioware game, not a SEA game.

Edited October 22, 2008 by Duke Togo

[eugimon]

This talk of making SW:TOR console friendly has me thinking I may have to give it a try...

[Duke Togo]

This talk of making SW:TOR console friendly has me thinking I may have to give it a try...

I wouldn't count on it, and I don't imagine we'll see this game until 2010, when we may looking at the next generation of consoles.

[eugimon]

I wouldn't count on it, and I don't imagine we'll see this game until 2010, when we may looking at the next generation of consoles.

Well, it's EA saying that they want a console release:

Electronic Arts exec Frank Gibeau said, "We're definitely looking at the opportunity to bring the MMO experience to console, without question."

http://www.joystiq.com/2008/10/22/console-...ing-considered/

I think TOR is a good candidate since KOTOR was conceived as a console game. So we know that at least the control scheme should be compatible.

[David Hingtgen]

However, Oblivion taught me that for MMO-style RPG's, the PC version will eventually far surpass the console due to mods and tools from the fan base. I expect SWTOR to have even more fan-mods etc than Oblivion. (I don't have PC Oblivion, but I look with envy at all the stuff they can do now) I mean frankly---SW fans+computers+devotion=stuff as good as the original programmers. And with how much I've replayed KOTOR on the PC (after owning the XB version) due to mods etc, I plan to go for the PC version of SWTOR.

[eugimon]

However, Oblivion taught me that for MMO-style RPG's, the PC version will eventually far surpass the console due to mods and tools from the fan base. I expect SWTOR to have even more fan-mods etc than Oblivion. (I don't have PC Oblivion, but I look with envy at all the stuff they can do now) I mean frankly---SW fans+computers+devotion=stuff as good as the original programmers. And with how much I've replayed KOTOR on the PC (after owning the XB version) due to mods etc, I plan to go for the PC version of SWTOR.

True, but I was really only speaking for myself. I don't have a dedicated gaming rig, the only computers we have are laptops... so not only would I need to justify the extra monthly subscription costs and find time to play but also buy or build a rig. Having it on a console would really help and since I would only be a casual player, I wouldn't need all the UI mods and tools. Though, maybe the PS3 (or 4, whatever) would be open to such user generated content seeing how they've opened the door for that with Unreal Tournament and LBP

[Scream Man]

I'm in. I was gonna hold out for a few different MMO's that havent hit. Tried COH, but got bored having no one to play with, tried WOW but didnt like the fantasy setting. was hanging out for Stargate and Champions, but maybe this will be the game to get me into the MMO genre.

[lord_breetai]

However, Oblivion taught me that for MMO-style RPG's, the PC version will eventually far surpass the console due to mods and tools from the fan base. I expect SWTOR to have even more fan-mods etc than Oblivion. (I don't have PC Oblivion, but I look with envy at all the stuff they can do now) I mean frankly---SW fans+computers+devotion=stuff as good as the original programmers. And with how much I've replayed KOTOR on the PC (after owning the XB version) due to mods etc, I plan to go for the PC version of SWTOR.

Ehh but there's only so much the mods and tools can do for you... they can't effect what's actually happening on server they can give you graphics changes on your end or give you helpful overlays that might tell you where secrets are and crap. but they can't haxors the game into making you ultra powerful or someting (the reason for this is all character stats will be held on the server and if they detect unauthorized changes you're gone)... Unless you run on a private sever or something... But generally the fan developed content dosn't matter much in MMOs.

[Duke Togo]

Ehh but there's only so much the mods and tools can do for you... they can't effect what's actually happening on server they can give you graphics changes on your end or give you helpful overlays that might tell you where secrets are and crap. but they can't haxors the game into making you ultra powerful or something (the reason for this is all character stats will be held on the server and if they detect unauthorized changes you're gone)... Unless you run on a private sever or something... But generally the fan developed content don't matter much in MMOs.

I am guessing you never spent much time in a game with end-game raiding. Or competitive PvP.

[Duke Togo]

"If you roll a Jedi character and you play them from the first level to the last level, and then you roll a Sith and you play them from the first level to the last level, you will not see one repeated quest, line of dialogue, or piece of content. It is a 100% different story experience."

Hopefully this will shut up some of the SWG whiners who we see posting on various TOR boards. Jedi and Sith force users ARE a starting class. One can only hope this pisses them off enough that they give up on TOR and go back to whining on the SWG forums.

[Duke Togo]

At the very least, most of the people we spoke with at BioWare seem to be fans of Warhammer Online and enjoy the PVP format of that game.

More good news.

[lord_breetai]

I am guessing you never spent much time in a game with end-game raiding. Or competitive PvP.

Incorrect on both accounts... I've done competitve PVP (such as it is in CoH... probably the worst implemented part of the game they're stil trying to fix) and both of the high level raids.

Still dosn't change the fact that mods can't effect the live content of the game. And if they can they will be quickly expelled and if they arn't there's something wrong.

I will conceede I'm not a MMO player I don't play dozens of MMO games right now I only play one. that's all I can afford to spend time-wise and money wise. Though I will make room in my budget and my time for this one

Edited October 23, 2008 by lord_breetai

[Duke Togo]

Incorrect on both accounts... I've done competitve PVP (such as it is in CoH... probably the worst implemented part of the game they're stil trying to fix) and both of the high level raids.

Still dosn't change the fact that mods can't effect the live content of the game. And if they can they will be quickly expelled and if they arn't there's something wrong

But we aren't talking about effecting live content. We're talking about usefulness. For 2 years of my life I spent more time in raids and competitive PvP that I care to or will ever admit. Mods aren't just useful, in many instances they are essential.

[lord_breetai]

But we aren't talking about effecting live content. We're talking about usefulness. For 2 years of my life I spent more time in raids and competitive PvP that I care to or will ever admit. Mods aren't just useful, in many instances they are essential.

hmm.... okay I can see how some mods can be useful, but I don't even take PVP tournaments that seriously, I don't have to win even when I play competativly it's largely for fun... I do work on improving my build and see how a tool like "hero stats" for CoH can be useful for that (I just decided to download it) but I don't think it will lead to my enjoyment of the game more. Make me a better raider or pvper probably in the long run but i don't put so much time into it that it's going to have a noticable impact for quite some time.

[Duke Togo]

From Joystiq, what we know so far:

# The game is set 3,600 years prior to the events of the Star Wars movies, and 300 years after the events of Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II.

# The plot centers on an impending war between the Sith Empire and the Galactic Republic.

# BioWare claims the game contains enough dialog, plot, quests, and other content to comprise KOTOR 3, 4, and 5. It is larger than all previous BioWare games combined, according to the developer.

# There will be multiple classes for both the Sith and Republic factions, each with their own storylines that will carry players from the first level to the last. No dialog, quests, or content will be reused between classes.

# There will be no cross-over between the two factions.

# Jedi and Sith are the only classes revealed thus far; lead writer, Daniel Erickson, "loves Mandalorians."

# You will be able to interact and upgrade multiple companion characters, but only one can accompany you at a time.

# There are no "kill 10 rats" type quests. The most basic creature you will battle as a Sith at level one is a 20-foot-tall K'lor Slug.

# Space flight will factor into the game (for traveling from planet to planet), but BioWare isn't saying if it will include space combat.

# There will be a crafting system. No further details, other than implimenting it was "a toughie," according to the game's lead writer.

# The Old Republic will use a level system, but the level cap "can't be shared just yet."

# Combat will be faster-paced and "more epic" than in competing MMOs to "capture the Star Wars feel."

# Characters from the Star Wars expanded universe will cameo, as will ones from the KOTOR games.

# The designers have created a new mechanic in order to encourage players to choose classes other than Jedi and Sith, but it can't yet be talked about.

# There will be PvP in the game; it will factor in the Sith and Republic factions and "feel important in that context."

# BioWare intends to include a mentoring system allowing players of varying levels to adventure together, but hasn't decided if it will take the form of a sidekick or a downsizing system.

# Vehicles are "on the plate," but can't be talked about at this point.

# The game will include "a form of instancing," with the design team saying that, "being able to do storytelling, being able to do experiences that aren't disrupted in public areas," is a high priority.

# Finally, BioWare is only talking about the PC version at present, but is considering console versions.