SW: The Old Republic MMO

[raptormesh]

I win: I was getting 9 FPS during the dance off!

If there was one thing 6 years of WoW has taught me, no class remains the same for long.

Indeed, luckily with TOR's class stories I think most players would have planned to level multiple classes anyway ie the drudge of rerolling isn't such a punishment. It looks like however I will have to stick to the Jedi Guardian as my main as my wife is rolling a Consular and she prefers if we start at the same place. Ironically this may repeat my experience of trying to tank as a paladin in vanilla WoW(Got to tank MC and AQ20 in my deathbone hah!). Still gonna roll up a Trooper as my main alt.

[MacrossJunkie]

No, you offered up some examples of concepts it contains that are like all MMO's (except for Guild Wars, apparently), and then you made some rather lazy and uninformed comments about its combat system and how it looks. Nevermind this flies in the face of all the other feedback given in this thread (or that can be found online, for that matter).

You want to talk about GW2 and how awesome it looks, more power to you; create a thread and have at it.

Eugimon has some good points, but I probably wouldn't call it a WoW clone so much as it just has the same decades old basic gameplay concepts since Everquest, but with more streamlining. I wouldn't even really consider Guild Wars 1 an MMO as the only time you see people outside of your group is in the towns and cities. The rest of the game, the second you step out, is basically like a single player game with co-op for up to 7 other people (in most cases) or just play by yourself by filling the party with henchmen or heroes. So the towns basically act like game lobbies to find other players with buying and selling functionality.

Some things that I've found that didn't change from WoW and predecessors are:

Good:

1) Definitely a nod to WoW is the daily quests you get from the terminals that tells you do things such as go complete such and such flashpoint (instance/dungeon). I can live with it. If you're going to redo an instance, why not get a bonus out of it?

2) The combat resource system is similar, but I see no reason to change that. Pretty much every RPG, mmo or not, has a way to limit what players can use and how often. WoW uses mana/rage/energy/focus. The SWTOR equivalent being force points/focus/ammo respectively (with some differences like force points being more like mana for sages while more like rogue style energy for shadows due to differences in the way they regen). This is one thing I really don't have any issues with as it's a simple concept that gets the job done and hasn't really been an annoyance.

Bad:

1) The game doesn't break from requiring the Tank/DPS/healer trinity, but at least a greater percentage of classes can fill multiple roles. Where they should copy WoW if they are going to go with the holy trinity trope is that they should allow for dual specs instead of having to pay to respec every time like players in WoW used to have to do. So it's like a step forward and a step back.

2) The non-instanced game world is still pretty static like WoW and predecessors. What players do don't really have any sort of lasting effect on the world other than depopulating the number of enemies in a public area for a few minutes or making a quest thingie uninteractable to other players and forcing them to wait around until it resets. Though I haven't played it, Rift has some semblence of a dynamic event system based on what co-workers have told me of the game. GW2 will be even much more so with whole areas of a world changing based on actions and inactions of players.

3) The way standard quests and rewards are handled are not much different except that in SWTOR you get some bonus objectives and you get dialogue scenes for most quests at the point you pick up or turn them in, with the exception of ones you pick up at terminals or turn in at dropboxes. Most of the quests so far in the early game at least up to the 20's has been pretty standard. Like Go to X and kill Y number of things. Or go to these points and interact with the object you find there. It can get a little tiresome, especially when there are a lot of people around... which leads to...

4) Players will still be competing with each other to finish quests and getting resource nodes and such. The more people there are in an area, the less fun it will be for you. Because you will be waiting even longer for respawns of enemies, quest specific nodes, resource nodes, etc...

5) Another thing that isn't any different from WoW and others is that movement and reaction doesn't matter so much. Once something is fired at you, you can hide behind a wall or other obstacle and you will see the shot curve through the air and go through walls and hit you still because the hit is already determined at the time the action was performed and what follows afterwards is merely a formality.

Eugimon has listed more examples like the on world travel systems, stats via items and such which I find are valid comparisons as well.

In the end, I do feel that the core gameplay plays a lot like WoW and many MMOs that came before and after it, but it has added many fresh additions to the game which especially help it feel like a RPG such as the personal story lines, the conversational style of the quests and flashpoints, the companion system, and the crafting system which lets you level your crafting without actually having to sit there in some room for a day clicking on creating components then creating the item ad nauseum. My main fear is that once the novelty wears off, will I get bored much sooner because the core game is still so similar to WoW? I guess only time will tell.

Since quitting WoW a couple years back, I've tried Conan, Aion, and playtested FFXIV. Conan was horrid and dull with awkward combat. FFXIV took many many many steps back in gameplay in every direction from even Everquest and was the worst game I ever had the displeasure of trying. Aion was pretty much WoW with angels and about 400x more grind. One thing is for sure. This will be the last old school styled MMO that I will play and enjoy before moving on to a next gen game like GW2.

P.S. Commandos rock!

[Duke Togo]

Dual-specs are coming, just not at launch.

If SWTOR was an "instanced" game world, it would essentially be a single-player game. There is no way around that. I don't play MMO's to play by myself in a world devoid of other players.

[MacrossJunkie]

Dual-specs are coming, just not at launch.

If SWTOR was an "instanced" game world, it would essentially be a single-player game. There is no way around that. I don't play MMO's to play by myself in a world devoid of other players.

That's good to know about the dual specs. Did they mention what sort of timeline that feature would be coming?

The instanced game world was essentially what the first Guild Wars game was and why I don't really consider it an MMO.

It doesn't need to be instanced though to address my criticisms of the majority of current gen of MMO's, SWTOR included.

Rift handles the static world part to a degree with the way it handles some dynamic event system with the rifts, and adds a unique and flexible way to spec characters (though still falling into tank/dps/healer roles)

GW2, from what I've been following closely, seems to address the majority of my criticisms that I would be able to call it a next gen mmo.

That said, I'm really looking forward to SWTOR, based on the beta playtesting I did. The trooper class especially struck a chord with me. It's been a while since I've really gotten into an MMO since WoW so I think the break has rejuvenated my interest in that style of gameplay if nothing else than in a sort of nostalgic way. I just couldn't get back into WoW after I quit because I would feel like I would need to play catch up after so long. But getting back with some of my old friends/guildmates from WoW and starting with a game where everyone is starting from scratch again is nice. I don't have the time these days to get as serious into it as I did in WoW, but it seems like the game should allow for me to play it more casually which is great for me.

[Chronocidal]

5) Another thing that isn't any different from WoW and others is that movement and reaction doesn't matter so much. Once something is fired at you, you can hide behind a wall or other obstacle and you will see the shot curve through the air and go through walls and hit you still because the hit is already determined at the time the action was performed and what follows afterwards is merely a formality.

You know... I understand that this system usually works decently well, since we've seen it in so many games. But I wish people would try something different.

It's kind of sad, I was really looking forward to maybe playing this. I mean, I might still try it some day, but I'm just so tired of computer games emulating dice games. If you want to play games based on random number generators, more power to you, but computers are capable of so much more.

I guess I just wish more developers would explore new ways to play instead of sticking to such a simple mechanic.

I mean, there are games that use very different mechanics to play, and I love them for it, but I've yet to see any big ticket developers work on anything similar. Most of them are free-to-play mmos hosted by random companies, and developed elsewhere.

There any estimate for how long til this opens up fully? I don't have much time to beta test at the moment, but I might try a demo and see if I like the story enough to ignore what I don't like.

[Chewie]

There any estimate for how long til this opens up fully? I don't have much time to beta test at the moment, but I might try a demo and see if I like the story enough to ignore what I don't like.

It launches the 20th of this month with a lot of preorders getting in up to 7 days early.

[Duke Togo]

It's kind of sad, I was really looking forward to maybe playing this. I mean, I might still try it some day, but I'm just so tired of computer games emulating dice games. If you want to play games based on random number generators, more power to you, but computers are capable of so much more.

It's not about what computers are capable of; it's about not punishing those who are at a disadvantage because of their connection. What you are advocating for is what is known as "action based" or "twitch based" combat--this does not work in a large MMO environment because of the disparity in the latency among users.

[Zor Primus]

One of the aspects of the game that I had fun with the last day was space.

While limited to "tube flying" for the moment its fun to blast away at fighters and capital ships. Especially when you start gearing up your ship. I was able to strafe away at a Imperial transport and knock out all its weapons and engines, it proceeded to list, dip and fall away into the planet's atmosphere

Anyone get the invite to download the game before early access?

[Duke Togo]

Anyone get the invite to download the game before early access?

Everybody did.

[Duke Togo]

The Blasters have been placed on the Davik's Estate server. That's US PvP East.

[MacrossJunkie]

Sweet. I got my early access today. Guess I'll need to make at least 2 characters. One to play with my friends so I don't outlevel them and one to play on my own time.

[Zor Primus]

all that beta testing and no email....

[MacrossJunkie]

They are sending out the emails by order of when the pre-order codes were redeemed. So basically first come, first served, or so Bioware says. But they say a lot of things.

[Mellow Yellow]

So they removed unify colors to chest

Gonna miss using that for my one colored trooper.

Edited December 13, 2011 by Mellow Yellow

[David Hingtgen]

So they removed unify colors to chest

Seriously? That's incredibly dumb. So liked, so requested, already implemented and working flawlessly in the beta AFAIK. "So let's get rid of it".

[Mellow Yellow]

Here's the link: http://www.swtor.com/blog/why-unify-color-chest-piece-gone-and-whats-next

They'll apparently re-implement it when it's more refined sometime down the road.

[Duke Togo]

Here's the link: http://www.swtor.com/blog/why-unify-color-chest-piece-gone-and-whats-next

They'll apparently re-implement it when it's more refined sometime down the road.

Time frame seems to be a few months. Also, they are going to expand space combat.

[Zor Primus]

Time frame seems to be a few months. Also, they are going to expand space combat.

The reasoning behind not having the tool at launch was weak, especially when you back it up with a phrase like this:

"Back in my day, we had to wear those orange pants with purple boots! Uphill! Both ways! In the snow!"

meh...

[Duke Togo]

The reasoning behind not having the tool at launch was weak, especially when you back it up with a phrase like this:

"Back in my day, we had to wear those orange pants with purple boots! Uphill! Both ways! In the snow!"

meh...

Very much so. They won't lose any players over it, but it will "color" their opinion of the game.

[Zor Primus]

YAY! I'm on Kaas City server

[CoryHolmes]

So I just bought a new desktop, one with more than enough oomf to drive TOR. Now, let me at that Beta weekend!

[Chewie]

Beta is over. =P It's all early access from here on out.

Me and my group are on PVP-West server Mandalore the Indomitable.

EDIT: 1 thousandth post!

Edited December 17, 2011 by Chewie

[CoryHolmes]

So I'm having a lot of fun with the game, but there are a few annoying things about it. I'm a console gamer, I make no bones about this; so using WASD to manouver around is... interesting. Also annoying is that I have to physically walk until I'm in range of my target; I'd prefer to have an auto-move function, where I target my opponent, hit the attack button, and my character automatically moves until he's in range and makes with the stabbity/shootity.

Is there anyway I can enable that?

[Zor Primus]

So I'm having a lot of fun with the game, but there are a few annoying things about it. I'm a console gamer, I make no bones about this; so using WASD to manouver around is... interesting. Also annoying is that I have to physically walk until I'm in range of my target; I'd prefer to have an auto-move function, where I target my opponent, hit the attack button, and my character automatically moves until he's in range and makes with the stabbity/shootity.

Is there anyway I can enable that?

Sounds like this is your first PC game...two answer your question, no...there is no auto move or auto attack in the game.

[Mellow Yellow]

you can auto run multiple ways with: 1) num lock, 2) holding both mouse 1 and 2 at the same time while steering with the mouse, or 3) if you have a gaming mouse, the auto run is auto bound to one of the page forward/backward buttons. Careful about auto running off a cliff, or into mobs tho, it's an auto run, not auto pilot

Edited December 18, 2011 by Mellow Yellow

[Mellow Yellow]

Here's a pic of my trooper vanguard. Took until level 25 to get this look with gear I currently use. Can't find any lvl appropriate plastiform style boots tho, so I'm stuck wearing ugly blue and white boots with crazy knee guards. Also a pic of the stap mount that comes with collector's/digital deluxe version of the game.

Edited December 18, 2011 by Mellow Yellow

[raptormesh]

Nice job Mellow. I'm still leveling my Guardian, and it's pretty frustrating tanking flashpoints almost akin to playing the piano. Leveled a Trooper Vanguard and it's a breeeeze, possibly taking 1/3 the amount of keystrokes to do the same thing.

Edited December 18, 2011 by raptormesh

[CoryHolmes]

It's really bizzare to quit out of an RPG without hitting the save button half a dozen times

[Zor Primus]

The Blasters have been placed on the Davik's Estate server. That's US PvP East.

Rolled a toon there...BH named Ikaru

[Zor Primus]

Collector's Edition contents:

[CoryHolmes]

I just completed the Forge part of Tython (Jedi Knight for me) and my shiny new lighsaber... doesn't show up in my inventory or character screen. I'm still using my Apprentice Lightfoil. Bug or what?

EDIT: Nevermind, I got it. Curse that tiny little window popping up! I wish the game had a manual or tutorial that came with the digital editions.

Edited December 20, 2011 by CoryHolmes

[Zor Primus]

I just completed the Forge part of Tython (Jedi Knight for me) and my shiny new lighsaber... doesn't show up in my inventory or character screen. I'm still using my Apprentice Lightfoil. Bug or what?

EDIT: Nevermind, I got it. Curse that tiny little window popping up! I wish the game had a manual or tutorial that came with the digital editions.

http://www.swtor.com/gamemanual

[Zor Primus]

Let the Wookie win...

[CoryHolmes]

So, I just had my first real taste of what an MMO is capable of compared to any other style of game, in both the good ways and the bad.

I'm on Ven Zallow server, on Tattoine. It's a PVP-RP server, but the only Sith player I'd seen was on Nar Shaddaa and all he did was posture while I hopped into an air taxi. Then I started playing on Tattoine when I (with my level 28 Jedi Sentinel) ran across a Level 50 Sith Lord while on my class quest. Welp. Needless to say, I didn't last long. I respawned and continued on... only to run into her again. This time I got sneaky and hurled myself off the nearest cliff. Yes, I died in my suicide, but the opposing player followed me and crumpled to death beside me. A pyrrhic victory, but a victory nonetheless.

Sadly, that was only the beginning. A different Sith started wandering around Tattoine, following me on my class missions. She'd wait until I was engaged in combat with the Sand People before decloaking and stabbing me in the back. Argh, that wasn't fun at all. So I'm on my way back to the Thorazen basecamp for more medkits when a speeder appears over the horizon: another level 50 Sith Lord. Welp x2. I start weaving back and forth, jumping, doing anything i can to keep away when the basecamp appears ahead. Oh good, I should be safe in there. I have a sliver of HP left when I round the corner, the Sith Lord right on my ass...

When like Han Solo in Star Wars, he ran smack into the gathering of Republic forces inside the base.

It was glorious. He charged around the corner, eager to gank me, and didn't even realize what had happened when 7 Jedi, Troopers, and a Smuggler (with their companions) all targetted him and just opened up. We were all mid-high 20s in level against his 50 Sith Lord, but he couldn't stop the Zerg Rush. Five minutes of furious keyboard hammering and he goes down, then we cheer and openly mock him on the chat channel.

He respawns and tries to sneak away, but we gut him a second time. After two full days of Republics complaining about high-level Sith campers just ganking us mid-levels as we go about our quests, that was so satisfying. Even moreso when you think about how unplanned it was. "He's here?! Run aw- BAH! Git 'im!"

Of course, he and his fellows have gone back to their camping ways, forcing us to group up just to do our class/side quests. I hate being ganked

[Duke Togo]

I've sadly not seen many Pubs outside of WZ's. I have 9 world kills to 2 deaths--much less than I expected to have at 50. As it stands now, Ilum is a place where the two factions get together to trade objectives for easy daily and weekly mission completions; even then, I generally only see a couple of Pubs in the zone. Thankfully our population isn't too skewed, and I only get Huttball as a WZ about half the time.

I loved my class story as a Sith Warrior; simply excellent writing and voice acting, with only only one real misstep along the way. I've done every mission available to me--without space-baring though cut scenes--with the exception of two Heroic 4's on Hoth and one Heroic 4 on Corellia. The only planet I really loathed was Imperial Taris, and Imperial Balmorra went on a tad too long for my tastes. I've done my share of space missions and have a fairly well geared-out ship (Grade 5 and Purple upgrades). I've done every FP up to level 40 (The Foundry was the last I did) and spend some time every day in the WZ's. Right now I'm just waiting for some more folks in my guild to catch up so we can start running hard-mode FP's (and hopefully finish out those Heroics I need). We currently have three 50's and three more members in the 40's.