SW: The Old Republic MMO

[Ghost Train]

PVP is going to be an issue in any MMO. Different classes with different skills will result in unblance and flavour of the month setups.

I can already see it, 1 super-class that absolutely pwns everything.... then 1/2 the population decides to level the flavor of the month. Bioware catches up, and nerfs balances the job .... seen it happen so many times already. However, the MMO market is mature enough that I'm fairly certain developers are considering issues like job balance before publishing the game.

I still think there will be plenty of PvE content with a healthy dose of PvP, they probably want to grab as many players as they can. Not that I personally dislike PvP, I recently passed the 500 PvP kill mark on EVE and just itching for something new .

[Duke Togo]

You guys need to stop applying your WoW experiences to TOR.

[David Hingtgen]

Seconded. Remember, this is "the MMORPG for people who don't play/like MMORPG's". It should be about as NOT like WoW, Everquest, FFXI, PSO, or SW Galaxies as it can be.

[Chewie]

The same ole "we will try so hard to make this unlike anything you've ever seen" line will be all I see until they prove it's something different from every other MMO for the last 10 years.

Most of it is copy of a copy of a copy of a copy and it seems like everything is trying really, really hard to be like WoW in it's ease and popularity.

That isn't to say Bioware will be guilty of this, but it's hard to be different without suffering from "OMG THATS NOT WOW" anymore.

Edited July 29, 2009 by Chewie

[Ghost Train]

One more job class unveiled, though no surprise there: Sith Warrior. The actual Bioware site has not been updated yet apparently. So thus far on the roaster we have for the Republic: Trooper, and Smuggler, and for the Empire: Bounty Hunter and Sith Warrior.

Both sides would be missing some sort of healer/medic, the Republic is missing a force practitioner (like it's any surprise what that's going to be). I'm curious as to whether or not the Bounty Hunter is meant to be in the same role as the trooper, or if there will be a smuggler-equivalent for the Empire.

... of course, I'm just assuming there are 4 classes per faction based on how the website is arranged.

Edited August 21, 2009 by Ghost Train

[kaiotheforsaken]

From what I read it sounds like Sith/Jedi may be split into Warrior and some name for more force based/mage type Sith/Jedi. Granted I just skimmed the new stuff coming from GC.

[Totoro242]

Is anyone else bothered by the designs in the trailer? Maybe its just me, but I feel that if the game is taking place 3600 years before ANH, shouldn't it look COMPLELTELY different?

I thought KOTOR did a good job of coming up with new designs that felt of another era, while still giving us familiar elements such as lightsabers, protocol droids, astromech droids, Jedi's, epic space battles, starfighters, republic troops, etc; without mining/robbing the original movies. I think KOTORTSL even strayed too far into this trapping with "classic" Jedi robes (what happened to the KOTOR Jedi garments BTW?) and Darth Sion's wedge-shaped cruiser, aka Imperial Star Destroyer.

TOR seeks to deliver even more familiar design elements such as near Imperial uniforms, Vader-like Sith armor, "classic" Jedi robes, and "tie-fighters". Maybe they aren't just designing an MMORPG for people who don’t like MMORPG's, but also a Star Wars game for people who haven't strayed beyond the original trilogy. That's a little watered down for my tastes and makes me think that in the end they will be most concerned about making a game that appeals to a mass audience. Whatever that entails.

Edited August 22, 2009 by Totoro242

[Ghost Train]

Is anyone else bothered by the designs in the trailer? Maybe its just me, but I feel that if the game is taking place 3600 years before ANH, shouldn't it look COMPLELTELY different?

I thought KOTOR did a good job of coming up with new designs that felt of another era, while still giving us familiar elements such as lightsabers, protocol droids, astromech droids, Jedi's, epic space battles, starfighters, republic troops, etc; without mining/robbing the original movies. I think KOTORTSL even strayed too far into this trapping with "classic" Jedi robes (what happened to the KOTOR Jedi garments BTW?) and Darth Sion's wedge-shaped cruiser, aka Imperial Star Destroyer.

TOR seeks to deliver even more familiar design elements such as near Imperial uniforms, Vader-like Sith armor, "classic" Jedi robes, and "tie-fighters". Maybe they aren't just designing an MMORPG for people who don’t like MMORPG's, but also a Star Wars game for people who haven't strayed beyond the original trilogy. That's a little watered down for my tastes and makes me think that in the end they will be most concerned about making a game that appeals to a mass audience. Whatever that entails.

Although I agree 100% with what you said about the need to have some differentiation between the original trilogy "look" and something that takes place 3600 years before - I've always thought that Old Republic already represented the epitome of "advanced technology" and as such it would be difficult to move beyond that, hence even 3600+ years after that, things would still look the same - think about how long the horse + carriage was the preferred method of transportation.

Also, since Palpatine was a Sith, he must have been familiar with the historical events of that time, and it could have inspired him to design his own military styled after the ancient Sith Empire.

[Duke Togo]

From what I read it sounds like Sith/Jedi may be split into Warrior and some name for more force based/mage type Sith/Jedi. Granted I just skimmed the new stuff coming from GC.

Its just conjecture at this point; it really depends on your interpretation of what was said. It's certainly a possibility.

[Totoro242]

I've always thought that Old Republic already represented the epitome of "advanced technology" and as such it would be difficult to move beyond that, hence even 3600+ years after that, things would still look the same - think about how long the horse + carriage was the preferred method of transportation.

Also, since Palpatine was a Sith, he must have been familiar with the historical events of that time, and it could have inspired him to design his own military styled after the ancient Sith Empire.

I agree that based on the fact that the Jedi have been around "for over 1,000 generations", aka over 20,000 years, and given that the Rakatan introduced hyperspace travel to everyone 15,000 years prior to that, that technology peaked at this time so yes, not alot has changed technology-wise. That doesnt mean styles and asthetics aren't constantly evolving.

An example of this would be that in the 30 year span between Ep I and Ep IV, we see very little resemblance other than the Republic Cruiser in Ep 1 looks like a Corellian Corvette, or Ep III Jedi Starfighters look like Darth Vaders Tie Fighter, or Jedi Knights wear robes like Ben Kenobi. These would appear to be intentional choices to link the prequals to the original trilogy, but the point is they are few and far between. Compound that by the thousands of years between TOR and ANH and I don't see why there should be any resemblance. Even if Ol' Palpy was a history major in Sith college

I suppose its a matter of tastes and most folks will be pleased if the mechanics of the gameplay is sound.

For me, its just as important to also capture the "era" and make sense relatively.

[Totoro242]

Add "Clone Troopers" to the list:

Star Wars: The Old Republic "Trooper"

Ugh.

[CoryHolmes]

The problem is that BioWare is trying to keep a Star Wars-y feel to the game, and that means wedge-shaped ships, Moffs, and Emperor's for the Sith Empire, and Jedi robes, Ebon Hawk / Millenium Falcon-type ships for the Republic. Heck, even the basic premise of most Star Wars games/media is the same: Jedi are on the run and hunted down, Republic is fighting against an Empire, the bad guys have Stormtroopers, etc. It sucks, it's a bad idea... and it's how Star Wars games have been made from yonkers back and will continue 'til yonkers in the future.

... but I will admit to loving the Jedi's armour

[Duke Togo]

Add "Clone Troopers" to the list:

Star Wars: The Old Republic "Trooper"

Ugh.

Trooper was the first class announced a while back.

And they aren't clones.

So far:

Republic

- Trooper

- Smuggler

- x

- x

Sith Empire

- Bounty Hunter

- Sith Warrior

- x

- x

Edited August 23, 2009 by Duke Togo

[Totoro242]

Trooper was the first class announced a while back.

And they aren't clones.

So far:

Republic

- Trooper

- Smuggler

- x

- x

Sith Empire

- Bounty Hunter

- Sith Warrior

- x

- x

Oh yes, I know its not a Clone Trooper, it just looks a lot like a Clone Trooper.

My point is that I wish they would create new designs that look completely different from the movies, rather than something that looks like it came out of Ep 3.5.

KOTOR did this and was still one of the most popular and best reviewed Star Wars games ever. This proves to me that you can have a successful Star Wars game that doesn't look like the movies.

[Duke Togo]

Um, wow.

http://kotaku.com/5522894/finding-balance-...he-old-republic

[Totoro242]

Um, wow.

http://kotaku.com/5522894/finding-balance-...he-old-republic

Sweet. The character designs are looking better I think. Less caricature, ala WOW, and more realistic.

I havent heard anything about the music, I wonder how they will approach that aspect...

[Duke Togo]

Sweet. The character designs are looking better I think. Less caricature, ala WOW, and more realistic.

I havent heard anything about the music, I wonder how they will approach that aspect...

The more unrealistic designs are, the better they age. Realism simply doesn't age well.

[Scream Man]

amen.

Can't wait for this. If you get to fly ships as well, GREATEST GAME EVER!

[Totoro242]

The more unrealistic designs are, the better they age. Realism simply doesn't age well.

I have no idea what you mean.

Realistic design from Elder Scrolls IV:

Caricature aqnd "cartoony" designs from WOW:

[David Hingtgen]

The look of the Old Repubic is well-established by this point. If it doesn't look realistic, it won't look like the canon.

Frankly, "the past" will never have to worry about aging. Old is old, classic is classic.

It's "portraying the future" that has to worry about how it'll age.

[Duke Togo]

I have no idea what you mean.

Realistic design from Elder Scrolls IV:

I've played ES4, and it looks pretty dated. Actually I thought it looked pretty bad when it came out. Now compare that to the original Fable. Fable still looks really good.

[Vepariga]

Looking better everytime i see it, I think Im gonna roll Bounty Hunter.

[Totoro242]

I've played ES4, and it looks pretty dated. Actually I thought it looked pretty bad when it came out. Now compare that to the original Fable. Fable still looks really good.

I guess it comes down to a matter of tastes. I replayed Fable on the XBOX last fall and it was pretty dated in my opinion.

[Ghost Train]

There is cartoonish-good and cartoonish-bad. WoW designs fall closer to the latter - humans especially look attrocious. My FFXI-Hume still looks pimp even today.

[Duke Togo]

There is cartoonish-good and cartoonish-bad. WoW designs fall closer to the latter - humans especially look attrocious. My FFXI-Hume still looks pimp even today.

Yeah, there is a clear difference between old school WoW designs and the BC-LK era work.

[CoryHolmes]

Neither of which means I have to like the TOR art style. Which I don't, but I'll live with it.

[Vince]

I can already see it, 1 super-class that absolutely pwns everything.... then 1/2 the population decides to level the flavor of the month. Bioware catches up, and nerfs balances the job .... seen it happen so many times already. However, the MMO market is mature enough that I'm fairly certain developers are considering issues like job balance before publishing the game.

I still think there will be plenty of PvE content with a healthy dose of PvP, they probably want to grab as many players as they can. Not that I personally dislike PvP, I recently passed the 500 PvP kill mark on EVE and just itching for something new .

in this country, ganking apparently is PvP.

[Vepariga]

Danish site has an exclusive 2nd Cinematic trailer.

http://www.gamereactor.dk/nyheder/78519/Eksklusiv

Its Incredible! *joy*

[CoryHolmes]

Bwa... fwa... *brain goes aspolode from teh awesomeness*

[David Hingtgen]

Exclusive as in different from the one Bioware, IGN, and Gametrailers put up yesterday? (Danish site won't load for me)

Hey--first look at a female trooper? http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/109/1098059/star-wars-the-old-republic-20100615004730160.jpg

[Vepariga]

Exclusive as in different from the one Bioware, IGN, and Gametrailers put up yesterday? (Danish site won't load for me)

Hey--first look at a female trooper? http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/109/1098059/star-wars-the-old-republic-20100615004730160.jpg

yeah well they had it a day before everyone else at the time,now its shown everywhere.

[Gunbuster]

i just saw the latest trailer...its cool and all, but when could you block a lightsaber with your hand? and did she just threw a fireball like Ryu from Street fighter at the end of the trailer? If they could have been throwing fireballs all this time, wouldn't Yoda have done it in the movies?

[Mog]

^^Nah, massive-ass Force-push from the female Jedi. We've seen it already in the Force Unleashed series, so it didn't bug me too much.

The bare-handed saber-block? Can't really defend that one.

But one thing's for sure: after playing the role of cannon-fodder in that first TOR trailer, it's good to see the Republic troopers getting some serious love in this second trailer.

[badboy00z]

Is it going to be free or will there be a fee?

It's hard for me to get past the fact that the lightsaber is more like a lightbaton. Lol.

That Alderan clip is FU***** incredible!

They should make a The Old Republic movie since the main saga has finished a long time ago.

Edited June 18, 2010 by badboy00z

[CoryHolmes]

i just saw the latest trailer...its cool and all, but when could you block a lightsaber with your hand?

The bare-handed saber-block? Can't really defend that one.

[sWNerd hat]

It's called Energy Absorbtion, and it's fundamentally the same power that Lord Vader used to block Han Solo's blaster shot, as well as the ability Master Yoda used against Count Dooku, when he sucked up Dooku's lightning.

Using it to absorb the energy from a lightsaber would be many, many times more difficult but it has been done in the EU (Corran Horn did it in I, Jedi). And, well... it looks cool, don't it?

[/sWNerd hat]