why must we doom ourselves???

[kensei]

2. is this a question or a statement. yes, the price point in the US is largely due to HG owning copyright on these items in the US (by hook or by crook) and not allowing them to be sold legally here.

Last time I heard they threatened legal action, they weren't able to prove it.

[estacado06479]

there is no money in it for them to go after little retailers, thats why they dont do anything, and also, the legal proceedings are in progress, from what i understand.

but for now, they do own enough rights that they can and would go after yamato, if yamato tried to bring its products to this country.

[kensei]

To me, Robotech and Macross are now two different things. Sure they shared the Macross TV series bit, but after that they didn't use any Macross related stuff at all. If anything they should be continuing on with the Mosapeda stuff, as that's where Robotech ended. DYRL? has nothing to do with Robotech and neither does the rest of Macross, I don't see why they have to push this issue any further. All they are doing is hurting Macross fans. It's kind of unfair.

Hypothetically, if BW and HG did cooperate on the issue (hope not, because I would like to see HG walk away as the losers) would the prices be cheaper in the US and other places like Australia?

[estacado06479]

this is fast becoming an OT thread, let me end it by saying this: that will not happen, too much has been done or not done for too long and there is too much money at stake. there is no amicable solution for these two companies. no matter the decision, if hg doesnt think it favors them, they will fight it.

if you have any more questions, there is a whole bushel of people who love to talk legal issues in the thread for the licensing agreements.

also, hg has already given us the answer to that by putting their MPC at 80 dollars.

Edited October 15, 2003 by estacado06479

[tom64ss]

I still think its supply and demand. 1/60s are in much less demand than 1/48s. Thats why 1/60 are sold for much less than their MSRP. Max is in less demand than the low-vis.

Do the boards effect Yamatos game plan, absolutely. But pricing, as stated over and over again in even the most basic business theory, is only as high as people are willing to pay. We doom ourselves because we keep buying at those prices.

[kensei]

How much would they Yamato make out of one 1/48 anyway? In Japan. Do they pay the sculptors a set amount already negotiated or does it change according to how much they make out of the line?

[estacado06479]

are you sure youre kensei, and not wonderwoman? (err...man)

i think only the graham-ster can answer that.

[kensei]

Take it easy Sunshine. Just trying to get around this cost business.

[estacado06479]

i wasnt insulting or getting testy, just joking, but seriously, graham is the only one with access to the answer of your last question

[kensei]

Cheers, but I'm trying to find out why Yamatos are so expensive down my end of the world...bloody hell! I really hope that Yamato doesn't just base prices on collectors who are willing to dish out the most money. That would be the end.

[EXO]

Do the boards effect Yamatos game plan, absolutely. But pricing, as stated over and over again in even the most basic business theory, is only as high as people are willing to pay.  We doom ourselves because we keep buying at those prices.

I don't really consider it dooming ourselves as much as I think of it as supporting our suppliers. I agree that $150 for a Low-Viz on eBay is ridiculous (before S&H). But people like at the VEX, TMP, Blasto, and Marcia's Locker (etc.) do offer unbelievably fair prices. If you (generally speaking) try to set up a personal contact in Japan that would ship a bundle load, maybe it'll be cheap at first but I guarantee after a couple of shipments you'll be back up where you started. First of all your contact would think it would be a hassle, and second, you'll be hassled by the people that bundled up with you. Hence, the price will be raised at two points of importation.

I was able to get my FaST packs at a great price at VEX and preordering it meant I got it before it sold out. The service that these people provide are incredible, maybe a little bit higher than other places, but you'd have to look around and take the chance they'll replace the item if it's defective. The fact is, we chose a hobby that comes with importation costs. And I'm not talking just in Macross terms. As far as I know I can't find SOC Evas in the Toys R' Us in my hometown. And there's no HG standing against that property. The price in Japan is no secret. Just do the math and you'll see how fair is fair.

[91WhiskeyM6]

"Here's what they want, here's what most people will pay." -Monkey Nugget

So, you really think they do read our stuff eh? Well, I want a damn 1/48 VF-2SS dammit!!!!

and..

MW is a large part of what keeps Yamato's Macross line alive. And it is what keeps them producing Macross related items. As long as everyone here stands for these prices, they will only increase. Look at the 1/60 Destroid Monster. I don't know one person here in Japan that has the space for something like that. Who are they making it for....MW.

Damn straight! and we'll keep them alive if they continue making our Valks...did I say I wanted a 1/72, 1/60, and 1/48 scaled VF-2SS Metal Siren in 100 colored schemes? You know Low-Viz, Desert Scheme, Snow Desert Tundra, deep space, etc?

Edited October 15, 2003 by 91WhiskeyM6

[Blaine23]

Get a grip, kids.

The toys cost alot because

1. they aren't made in super-high production numbers

2. they aren't licensed for release in the U.S. - so we have to import them at high cost

3. they are very detailed, great sculpts, and complex to transform - ie -difficult to manufacture properly

4. folks at Yamato like to make a profit just like any other company, American or Japanese. Yamato empolyees have kids, like to eat, and go to the movies, etc.

5. they cost what they cost because we buy them.

Now, if you want to stop spending so much - stop buying toys. If you don't like that - then, tough noogies.

It's not as though they could sell 1/48's here in the US for $50. They can't. They would either lose money or make crappier toys.

You do realize that Macross collectors paid ridiculous sums of cash only a few years back to get their hands on vintage imported Takatokus, Bandais, etc... now, you don't have to. $150 for a 1/48 is a freaking dream to most US Macross toy diehards.

Seriously... can we stop whining about how Yamato doesn't make exactly what we want, when we want it, and then have the audacity to try and make a profit from it?

Edited October 15, 2003 by Blaine23

[Roy's Blues]

OH YEAH,

I'd pay $1000 if they made a joke machine with armor -pfunk

But first they will release it without the armor, and then six months down the road release it for a third of the original price

[Draykov]

I am starting to wonder if a ticket to Japan would be cheaper than all of these shipping charges. I wonder how many 1/48s I can fit in my pants.

[do not disturb]

i can understand people paying an arm and a leg for a "vintage" toy.

if its 20 years old, i expect a high price tag, but new toys shouldn't cost as much as old/vintage/classic toys IMHO.

anyhow, people are missing the point.....i'm just trying to say that discussing what prices should be or discussing what we're willing to pay for this or that, doesn't help. you can make the arguement that it doesn't really matter, but all i'm trying to say is, while it might not hurt us, it definitely isn't helping us.

imagine walking into a car dealership with your buddy, and start discussing the most you're willing to spend for a toyota camry. the salemen standing around, over hears your conversation. now, what kind of deal do you think you're gonna get from the salemen? especially now, since he KNOWS how much you're willing to spend?

this is not rocket science....its common sense. its like playing poker but you're the only one on the table showing all your cards....does that make sense???

estacado06479,

i'm not trying to argue with you especially since by your previous statements, you're probably a young buck but the "dont continue, you are wrong". thats a nice one! its right up there with the "your momma" comeback.

if you don't have the capacity to make a logical statement/arguement, that pertains to the topic, please don't post again. it seems to me, you don't know much about business, manufacturing and/or economics, so your opinions/statements will now be ignored. B)

BTW, you should keep posting exactly what you're willing to pay. i'm sure alot of the sellers here will keep good track of you so they can make some extra money off you.

oh, read my signature. you're exactly the reason why i have that there! you've never been more right in your entire life man....seriously, i'm not joking. and have a nice day!

[estacado06479]

yeah thats me, a "young buck"

but wtf? at least i can read...

oh and before i forget, talking s**t to someone on the internet...you rule.

Edited October 15, 2003 by estacado06479

[Caufield]

Get a grip, kids.

The toys cost alot because

1. they aren't made in super-high production numbers

2. they aren't licensed for release in the U.S. - so we have to import them at high cost

3. they are very detailed, great sculpts, and complex to transform - ie -difficult to manufacture properly

4. folks at Yamato like to make a profit just like any other company, American or Japanese. Yamato empolyees have kids, like to eat, and go to the movies, etc.

5. they cost what they cost because we buy them.

Now, if you want to stop spending so much - stop buying toys. If you don't like that - then, tough noogies.

It's not as though they could sell 1/48's here in the US for $50. They can't. They would either lose money or make crappier toys.

You do realize that Macross collectors paid ridiculous sums of cash only a few years back to get their hands on vintage imported Takatokus, Bandais, etc... now, you don't have to. $150 for a 1/48 is a freaking dream to most US Macross toy diehards.

Seriously... can we stop whining about how Yamato doesn't make exactly what we want, when we want it, and then have the audacity to try and make a profit from it?

Well said!

Yamato is not forcing me to buy any of their products. What I pay for them (even here in Canada) is what I consider a fair price. I seriously doubt Yamato prices their product according to MW members. Does every member of this board post how much they are willing to pay? Not only that, we represent but a small segment of their market.

No matter, give me more Valks!

[imode]

Don't forget the Japan factor. For some reason everything that comes from there has inflated prices. Look at the price of Japanese CD's and DVD's over American ones. Look at the price of their Escaflowne toy ($70 in Japan) versus the American Toycom version ($50).

[estacado06479]

well then, the people in japan are the culprit that the haterist is looking for.

hear me out.

in japan, where the toys are made, they are used to paying inflated prices for everything (macross zero 1 episode dvd = 50 dollars US)

so the one that are driving up price points are Yamatos home market, japan.

the guys here have to charge more because they pay the shipping costs to their stores here in the US.

[imode]

To add to that, if Macross toys were ever released domestically and oficially, I strongly believe that the prices here would most likely mirror Japan TRU prices.

http://cgi.www.infoseek.co.jp/cgi-bin/toys...=1&id=1-11-25-0

Now even the 1/48 naysayers can't tell me they wouldn't be tempted by a sub-$100 Low Viz, not to mention a sub-$70 Max.

Edited October 15, 2003 by imode

[Draykov]

...not to mention a sub-$70 Max.

"Excessively Blue Squadron...ATTACK!"

Edited October 15, 2003 by Draykov

[do not disturb]

To add to that, if Macross toys were ever released domestically and oficially, I strongly believe that the prices here would most likely mirror Japan TRU prices.

http://cgi.www.infoseek.co.jp/cgi-bin/toys...=1&id=1-11-25-0

Now even the 1/48 naysayers can't tell me they wouldn't be tempted by a sub-$100 Low Viz, not to mention a sub-$70 Max.

i have to agree with you there. its messed up cause everybody wants their cut. i understand but some people are just selfish and figure, "let the US retailers deal with the inflated prices...as long as i get my money i could care less". i wish this whole retarded lawsuit would be over already that way we'd all get the hook up on the nice price...including the sellers and retailers here in the US. i'm sure they wouldn't mind not having to pay a "inconvience tax" to their hooks in HK and in japan as well as getting hit with ridiculous shipping and customs fees.

well this thread is coming to an end. i hope members here will hold their tongue when discussing prices for new upcoming products in the future. and if they can't....atleast lowball the figure.

1/48 1S hikaru, $100 shipped.

1/48 1J w/FP's, $125 shipped.

1/60 1J GBP, $60 shipped.

1/60 monster, $130 shipped.

1/60 q-rau, $100 shipped.

1/60 destroids, $40 shipped, if/when they come out.

anything more than that, i'll wait or pass. while i enjoy macross, i don't enjoy it enough to get ripped off because of too many middlemen wanting a piece of the pie. i need a friend in HK/Japan badly.

i got the hooks on nike sneakers, stussy clothing, supreme gear, if anyone out in HK or japan are down for trades, hit me up.

[tom64ss]

It still doesn't matter. Everyone here can say, "I wont pay more than $100 for a 1/48", but if Yamato put out a Limited Edition Blue Roses, we'd flock to it and buy multiples at whatever price they're charging like we did with the Low-Vis. That in turn will keep the prices up.

I agree with you >EXO< in that I have no problem with the money I spend going towards our friends that go through the hassle of importing these toys and the companies that are putting out the toys I want. The use of the word "dooming" was what haterist used to describe the prices being high, I'm using it in the same context.

haterist, you say everyone wants their share. Aren't you as guilty as anyone of that? If prices went down, you save money. Considering "a penny saved is a penny earned" isn't that the same as "wanting your share"? It's real easy to point fingers and say a corporation is being greedy, but there's not much difference between a company or importer wanting the most money for their toy and you wanting most toys for your money.

Some say it's not hurting us, haterist says it's not helping us, what I'm saying it that it's not relavant. In the end, "Money talks, bullshit walks" and what we say we're willing to spend is more often than not "bullshit". Key example, how many people said they'd be willing to pay $500-700 for Capt. America's 1/32 Legioss? And when it came time to cough up the coin, how many did? Obviously not enough because the project came to a halt.

Would I like Macross toys cheaper? Sure, anyone who says no is just lying to themselves. I'd also like HG to eat $hit and die, but it's just not in the star now is it baby?

What do you mean there's too many cliches in my post?

[EXO]

What do you mean there's too many cliches in my post?

He who hates cliches must live on his words...

boy, that was bad...

If prices went down, you save money.

Nope, you would buy 2!

Yeah, we'd all still be freakin' broke.

[tom64ss]

If prices went down, you save money.

Nope, you would buy 2!

Yeah, we'd all still be freakin' broke.

It's funny cause its true.

imagine walking into a car dealership with your buddy, and start discussing the most you're willing to spend for a toyota camry. the salemen standing around, over hears your conversation. now, what kind of deal do you think you're gonna get from the salemen? especially now, since he KNOWS how much you're willing to spend?

this is not rocket science....its common sense. its like playing poker but you're the only one on the table showing all your cards....does that make sense???

But on that same note, my friend Bill bought a Mini Cooper when they came out here in the US. There was a waiting list a mile long behind him. What kind of deal do you think he got off the sticker price? None. 0% APR? No way. Dealer rebate? Don't make me laugh. The salesman put it plain and simple. "If you don't want to buy it at that price, there's this entire list of people who will." It was the hot car of that summer, just like 1/48s are the hot toy right now.

On the other end of the spectrum, I got an MPC vol.2 for $29.50. That's over 50% off the MSRP. Why? Because nobody was willing to pay more for that POS. (Personally, I still feel like I got ripped off.)

If you want a great deal on your toys, its really simple. Buy crap nobody wants.

[imode]

To add to that, if Macross toys were ever released domestically and oficially, I strongly believe that the prices here would most likely mirror Japan TRU prices.

http://cgi.www.infoseek.co.jp/cgi-bin/toys...=1&id=1-11-25-0

Now even the 1/48 naysayers can't tell me they wouldn't be tempted by a sub-$100 Low Viz, not to mention a sub-$70 Max.

i have to agree with you there. its messed up cause everybody wants their cut. i understand but some people are just selfish and figure, "let the US retailers deal with the inflated prices...as long as i get my money i could care less". i wish this whole retarded lawsuit would be over already that way we'd all get the hook up on the nice price...including the sellers and retailers here in the US. i'm sure they wouldn't mind not having to pay a "inconvience tax" to their hooks in HK and in japan as well as getting hit with ridiculous shipping and customs fees.

well this thread is coming to an end. i hope members here will hold their tongue when discussing prices for new upcoming products in the future. and if they can't....atleast lowball the figure.

1/48 1S hikaru, $100 shipped.

1/48 1J w/FP's, $125 shipped.

1/60 1J GBP, $60 shipped.

1/60 monster, $130 shipped.

1/60 q-rau, $100 shipped.

1/60 destroids, $40 shipped, if/when they come out.

anything more than that, i'll wait or pass. while i enjoy macross, i don't enjoy it enough to get ripped off because of too many middlemen wanting a piece of the pie. i need a friend in HK/Japan badly.

i got the hooks on nike sneakers, stussy clothing, supreme gear, if anyone out in HK or japan are down for trades, hit me up.

Don't worry about that. It's not a US retailer thing only. Yamato gives a fixed price point which mainly reflects these itty bitty dealers who only purchase lots of 30 or 40 at once time. The most likely reason behind Toys R Us being so cheap is that they buy in far greater volumes and thus receive a larger discount on the price per unit from Yamato and in effect they're able to sell at a lower price and still make the same profit.

Edited October 15, 2003 by imode

[Lightning]

WHY MUST WE DOOM OURSELVES INTO PAYING MORE BY STATING WHAT WE'RE WILLING TO PAY?

because we can

[do not disturb]

edited out....pretty obvious whats going on here...sorry if you missed out on the fun.

Edited October 17, 2003 by haterist

[tom64ss]

edit: This thread took a turn for the worse.

Edited October 17, 2003 by tom64ss

[tom64ss]

edit: this makes no sense without the last post

Edited October 17, 2003 by tom64ss

[do not disturb]

deleted? what happened to my post?

Edited October 17, 2003 by haterist

[tom64ss]

edit: editting out any post that seems personal

Edited October 17, 2003 by tom64ss

[DrClay]

I want a damn 1/48 VF-2SS dammit!!!!

you said it!

[do not disturb]

deleted just cause i'm a bad!

Edited October 17, 2003 by haterist