Got my 1st 1/48 Valk today

[ruskiiVFaussie]

... what the hell is a foolio?

[Dante74]

... what the hell is a foolio?

Coolio's retarded older brother...

[Duymon]

Honestly I started to feel the same way about Yamato's Products once I started collecting completely different toys from other companies and was absolutely astounded at how cheap they were. Like literally, for the price of what some local retailers are charging for 1 yammie (150 bucks), you can get half a collection regular toys

[eugimon]

Honestly I started to feel the same way about Yamato's Products once I started collecting completely different toys from other companies and was absolutely astounded at how cheap they were. Like literally, for the price of what some local retailers are charging for 1 yammie (150 bucks), you can get half a collection regular toys

I guess it just depends on what you're collecting. I got a tachikoma for a 100 USD and while it's cool and all, the joints are loose or scary tight, making it hard/frightening to pose. It's just to easy to speak in generalities and say "regular" toys or "other" companies. The specifics don't support the arguements though.

[Duymon]

heh GI Joe Sigma 6 figures 10-15 bucks a pop (if you pay retail) and they are pretty fun

[eugimon]

heh GI Joe Sigma 6 figures 10-15 bucks a pop (if you pay retail) and they are pretty fun

haha, those regular toys. then yeah, yamato's are WAY overpriced. but compared to other collectible anime toys, yamato's aren't that bad.

[promethuem5]

I dunno, I've got three 1/48s (with a fourth coming for customizing) and I've payed aorund $150-$160USD each time, and I'm totally happy with them. I bought one 1/60 before I got my 1/48s for around $50, and I wasn't too thrilled, but I am glad now that I have one for scale with the new releases and other things in 1/60 scale (stupid niche scale as it is.) I've never had a problem with the 1/48 feeling light or cheap, rather I am totally happy with the feel and have never head something break on me aside from one stuck hip joint that was enameled together in the box. I guess it's just a personal taste thing, like the CHunky Monkey, which, while it feel impressive, Im not a fan of the sculpt or atciulation on.

[Lonely Soldier Boy]

I gave away the only 1/60 I bought afetr I get my first 1/48. I don't even want them for display pourposses next to the other 1/60 releases. If Yamato released all new 1/60's with perfect transformation, I'd probably buy some, specially the two seaters.

[Macross73]

In the end to each their own

buy what you like and you'll be happy

and when you get tired of it,

sell it to somebody who'll give it a new home.

[Sundown]

Yada, yada. This is thread is made because someone bought a 1/48 for the first time and is underwhelmed. What I find are gushers coming in to tell him otherwise. Don't blame me because I don't jump on the same bandwagon.

Yamato's other releases have been problematic, but the QC on the 1/48 was pretty solid from what I can remember. The only issue my original release VF-1S had was rubber seepage due to their weird hip rubber design. I know some other guys had issues with a more prominant head seam, crooked tail skulls, and a few BP8 failures, but that was about it. The last one was probably the most catastrophic, but I believe it was pretty rare. There were a few design niggles, like loose radomes and flaps, but those issues were cleared up in subsequent releases.

I'm not exactly sure where people are looking when they compare the 1/48 to other toys. I don't know of any other that boasts such a complex transformation that attempts to be as faithful to the line art and animation and still handles well and fits together so solidly in every mode. The binaltechs/alternators/MP's come close and are quite a bit cheaper, but they're also quite a bit smaller and have much simpler transformations, though well executed. And ironically, when I got my 1/60, I was underwhelmed by the smallness of the toy and cheapness of the design and engineering, and even how cheap it felt in my hands. The little bit of diecast and weight didn't somehow make me feel like it was worth more than it was, and it still left me somewhat unsatisfied. When I got the 1/48, it felt a little odd to pay so much for a mostly plastic toy, but after transforming it, I was astounded by the elegance and brilliance of its design and engineering.

I mean, come on, an internal heat shield *and* an ingenious hip transformation without ugly swing bars that looks completely anime accurate in both modes, finally achieving both holy grails of Macross toy design for 20 something years?

BoB, did you actually own a 1/48? Did it go to pieces on you or something? thegunny, did you feel that the transformation and design of the 1/48 was at least in its own league when compared to the 1/60? I know someone looking for heft might balk at the price he just paid though, and the toy is pretty plasticky, even though it's a pretty nice, solid plastic, and doesn't look goopy like the 1/60 did.

[ruskiiVFaussie]

Only problem i had with one of my 1/48's was the left wing flap being warped.

Everything else is super snug and tight.

And now i got 2 new flaps thanks to a top bloke here 'altermodes' everything is purffeect again!

Thanks altermodes mate!!!

[Beware of Blast]

Yamato's other releases have been problematic, but the QC on the 1/48 was pretty solid from what I can remember. The only issue my original release VF-1S had was rubber seepage due to their weird hip rubber design. I know some other guys had issues with a more prominant head seam, crooked tail skulls, and a few BP8 failures, but that was about it. The last one was probably the most catastrophic, but I believe it was pretty rare. There were a few design niggles, like loose radomes and flaps, but those issues were cleared up in subsequent releases.

I'm not exactly sure where people are looking when they compare the 1/48 to other toys. I don't know of any other that boasts such a complex transformation that attempts to be as faithful to the line art and animation and still handles well and fits together so solidly in every mode. The binaltechs/alternators/MP's come close and are quite a bit cheaper, but they're also quite a bit smaller and have much simpler transformations, though well executed. And ironically, when I got my 1/60, I was underwhelmed by the smallness of the toy and cheapness of the design and engineering, and even how cheap it felt in my hands. The little bit of diecast and weight didn't somehow make me feel like it was worth more than it was, and it still left me somewhat unsatisfied. When I got the 1/48, it felt a little odd to pay so much for a mostly plastic toy, but after transforming it, I was astounded by the elegance and brilliance of its design and engineering.

I mean, come on, an internal heat shield *and* an ingenious hip transformation without ugly swing bars that looks completely anime accurate in both modes, finally achieving both holy grails of Macross toy design for 20 something years?

BoB, did you actually own a 1/48? Did it go to pieces on you or something? thegunny, did you feel that the transformation and design of the 1/48 was at least in its own league when compared to the 1/60? I know someone looking for heft might balk at the price he just paid though, and the toy is pretty plasticky, even though it's a pretty nice, solid plastic, and doesn't look goopy like the 1/60 did.

I have 7 1/48s, each one of them exhibit problems ranging from minor to major. Rubber seepages being minor to cracked hip socket/intake blocks and floppy wings that can no longer hold still when I mount missiles on them in Battroid mode, being major for me. I'm a strictly transform, pose gently and leave'em collector, and they were fine when they were taken out of the box-new, afaik. I have no BP8 problems as I've taken extreme care not to stress the hinge or drop the toys.

One of my 1/48 DYRL Hikaru even had HAIR painted over on his left legs black panel (where you put the UNSPACY sticker). At first, I thought... okay, musta been a loose brush - no biggie. Then I recalled that the panels were actually airbrush painted, so I scrapped the hair off and it turned CURLY!

If there is ever a truly memorable WTF moments in toy collecting, that was it.

And I do collect SOCs apart from Macross VFs so this is where I can't help but compare them to each other - in terms of their price range proximity, build quality and finishing. Not only do the Yamato VFs (especially the 1/48s) fail to match in build quality and finishing, they were pricier than most of the SOCs. The only SOC that surpasses a Yamato 1/48 VF in price point, is the IDEON - but everything else about the IDEON blows Yamato 1/48 VF away.

But lets not compare SOC to Yamato shall we? Let just stick to Macross toys alone. As ugly and inaccurate as the old TAKATOKU/Bandai 1/55s are, the Yamato 1/72, 1/60, 1/48 VFs still CANNOT bring itself to compare with the Chunky Monkeys in terms of build quality and finishing. And I'm talking about comparing the almost new Yamato 1/48 VFs to my yellowed Chunky Monkeys

The Chunky Monkeys are more than 20 years old and they're far from expiring. Yamato 1/48 VFs aren't even ten years yet and they look and feel as though they might not pass it.

Edited April 20, 2007 by Beware of Blast

[jenius]

The Chunky Monkeys are more than 20 years old and they're far from expiring. Yamato 1/48 VFs aren't even ten years yet and they look and feel as though they might not pass it.

As someone who owns Macross toys crossing pretty much every spectrum I feel I can safely ask WTF?? You're entitled to your opinion but if you feel Macross toys have gotten worse since 1983 let me be the first to disagree with you. You're also in a thread dedicated to a particular, maybe a few, Yamato items and you're bashing the manufacturer on such a broad sweep that it exceeds the expected limitaitons here. As someone who has already been criticized within the context of this very thread for being overly negative I'd like to thank you for taking my comments to the next level... and far beyond. I hate Yamato's 1/60... BOB hates YOU for buying one!

EDIT - I was drunk when I wrote this so I don't think it really ties to the quote but what the heck, I'll leave it. I like toys... toys, toys, toys, and wine!

Edited April 20, 2007 by jenius

[Grand Admiral]

For me, it's about the perfect transformation. When I first heard that the 1/60s required you to remove the legs, I was uninterested.

Otherwise I'd probably have a shelf full of them.

[Sebastian]

The Yamato 1/48 is the BEST VF 1 perfect trans rendition to date. It may be expensive, it may be plastic, it may be many things. can anyone get a better VF 1? nope?? Then shut up.

By the way... the 1/60s are trully horrible , even my 4 years son toys are better designed...

[Sundown]

One of my 1/48 DYRL Hikaru even had HAIR painted over on his left legs black panel (where you put the UNSPACY sticker). At first, I thought... okay, musta been a loose brush - no biggie. Then I recalled that the panels were actually airbrush painted, so I scrapped the hair off and it turned CURLY!

I feel your pain but I had to laugh out loud at that one. That's hilarious. And awfully wrong. So wrong.

And I'm also baffled that someone who thinks the 1/48's so underwhelming would have *seven*. That's almost $1000 in multiples of a toy that you don't really like! O_o

And I do collect SOCs apart from Macross VFs so this is where I can't help but compare them to each other - in terms of their price range proximity, build quality and finishing. Not only do the Yamato VFs (especially the 1/48s) fail to match in build quality and finishing, they were pricier than most of the SOCs. The only SOC that surpasses a Yamato 1/48 VF in price point, is the IDEON - but everything else about the IDEON blows Yamato 1/48 VF away.

Do the SOCs boast complex transformation that comes close the VF's? (I really don't know, but I suspect that they don't transform.)

But lets not compare SOC to Yamato shall we? Let just stick to Macross toys alone. As ugly and inaccurate as the old TAKATOKU/Bandai 1/55s are, the Yamato 1/72, 1/60, 1/48 VFs still CANNOT bring itself to compare with the Chunky Monkeys in terms of build quality and finishing. And I'm talking about comparing the almost new Yamato 1/48 VFs to my yellowed Chunky Monkeys

Sure, the Chunky Monkey's built like a brickhouse. But it looks like one too. It's not hard to build something to be durable when you forgo all accuracy, elegance, and grace originally present in the line art and animation. That's hardly a fair comparison at all, but I will concede that it was a quality toy. It's too bad that even as a kid, I couldn't help but notice its glaring flaws every time I picked up my old Jetfire.

I guess for some folks, weight, finish and durability are more satisfying than accuracy and design ingenuity. Fortunately we have toys like the CM Patlabors that feature both. Unfortunately, they run 80-100 bucks for a non-transformable figure about the size of a 1/60.

Edited April 20, 2007 by Sundown

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

I want something as indestructible as the takas but with the aesthetics of the 1/48.

And jenius I think BOB was referring to the durability of the toys.

Dancougar and Ideon are transformable SOC. Dancougar is a gattai even.

[jenius]

And jenius I think BOB was referring to the durability of the toys.

It reads differently when you're drunk. Honest, try it.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Then I recalled that the panels were actually airbrush painted, so I scrapped the hair off and it turned CURLY!

Yuck. Pubic hairs in your valks. Hahaha!

But yeah I can see his point the 1/48 isn't the kind of thing that you could say would be virtually unbreakable like the chunkys, but as others pointed out what you get is a toy that looks like a model but isn't as hollow and brittle as one. That's essentially what I expected when I read grahams reviews when I first got my 1/48. I saw how complex the transformation was, the details, and how it tried to be accurate to lineart and stuff, and realised I needed to have this. It's still the ultimate VF-1 toy to own if you are a fan of macross. Maybe not if you are a toy collector of other things, but if you are just a macross person like me who virtually has no choice but to pay the price yamato asks then it isnt easy to express disapointment. It's like you are in a desert and a tiny amount of water is valuable. It makes you less critical and more appreciative that it exists because of those 20 years.

If bandai made really good high detail macross stuff aiming for collectors....

Edited April 21, 2007 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Beware of Blast]

Guys, I have more than just seven pieces of 1/48 Yamato valks... quite alot more than that of Yamato's stuff. And like most of you, back in the day I was THRILLED to bits when we're finally getting more Macross related stuff. My disdain for Yamato products is only a recent development - The 1/48s may seem good and problem-free as new, but if any of you who transformed them more than just once, please scrutinize it closely as it ages. You will see that they are not so well built.

The Bandai's SOCs and some of its GD toyline do have complex transforming toys like the Macross VFs. Some of the best examples that come to mind are the SOC Gunbuster and the Dancougar - it is every bit as complexity-mad in transformation as the Yamato 1/60 YF19 but with better build quality, more durable and more pleasing to the eye in finishing. The Gunbuster has diecast metal parts and hinges that hold every crucial moving parts. Parts that are suppose to lock together fit nicely, shut snuggly and open fluidly without the snapping, popping, and flailing limbs heart attack moments you usually get from transforming a Yamato valk.

Yamato's problem is they are relying too much on nubs and pegs molded into the plastics to lock the transforming parts together. That will contributed to stressing out the crucial parts held together by plastics on an already fragile toy.

The SOCs utilizes both diecast metal and plastic and yet when you transform any of them, you don't get the snapping, popping, parts-seemed-nearly-breaking-heart attack moments. In fact, they rarely use nubs and pegs to lock anything together.

I used the Bandai Chunky Monkey as an example cuz I think more of you can relate better when I make the Yamato VFs vs competition comparisons. Just look at the quality and durability of the two. We all know that the Yamatos are more beautiful. And if any of you just try your hands on a SOC Gunbuster or a Bandai Aquarion (despite it's back heavy kibble and weak knees) you'll see that accuracy, elegance, and grace originally present in the line art and animation it not sacrificed for the sake of durability.

sebastian, you once said on a 1/60 YF19 thread that...

Maybe some of the members should try to admire this little plastic things with kids eyes while they treat them with grown up hands. And again, if the only thing you see are the flaws, then find a new hobby, because you have lost it, and that is another issue you should treat with your shrink.

There is no doubt that we'll treat them with grown-up hands. But we can no longer admire the Yamato's VFs with "kids eyes" no more that we can no longer pay for the damn things with most regular kids' weekly or monthly pocket money or allowances or a regular joe's salary without pain. That because we didn't use to see with "kids eyes" and we threw b1tching fests over how bloody inaccurate, ugly and foolhardy a move that Toynami is making a new veritech by copying the old HCM Macross valks - never mind their bait & switch advertising and marketing tactics.

What Yamato is getting from me now should be no different that what Toynami got. The fact that we can't get a better VF1 from anyone else is a testament of how WEAK we are - hence the "some of us have really low standards when it comes to quality" statement. That includes me.

[eugimon]

I understand, appreciate that you have bad experiences with your yamatos, and apparantly sterling experiences with bandai. But many of us, like myself have had good experiences with the 1/48 line. I'm not going to get into other yamato products, because that's not the focus of this thread.

I think what several of us are pointing out in your posts BOB, is that you not only express disdain for yamato and they 1/48s, but you also attack those of us who don't think like you do.

Again, I do collect other toys other than yamatos. I have received toys from takara with stress marks, missfitting parts, spilled paint, poor workmanship, bent die cast. I've received toys from bandai with paint chipping off of the diecast right out of the box. And I've seen PLENTY of chunky monkeys with busted tailfins, with swing bars that no longer lock onto their nubs, with paint scraping off the wings because the wing and body touch. So please stop making it sound like we live in some sheltered bubble. All toys have problems, if you choose to focus solely on yamato's flubs, that's fine. But to say that other companies make flawless toys is just silly.

[kensei]

Don't get me started on Bandai loose parts.

[Beware of Blast]

I understand, appreciate that you have bad experiences with your yamatos, and apparantly sterling experiences with bandai. But many of us, like myself have had good experiences with the 1/48 line. I'm not going to get into other yamato products, because that's not the focus of this thread.

I think what several of us are pointing out in your posts BOB, is that you not only express disdain for yamato and they 1/48s, but you also attack those of us who don't think like you do.

Again, I do collect other toys other than yamatos. I have received toys from takara with stress marks, missfitting parts, spilled paint, poor workmanship, bent die cast. I've received toys from bandai with paint chipping off of the diecast right out of the box. And I've seen PLENTY of chunky monkeys with busted tailfins, with swing bars that no longer lock onto their nubs, with paint scraping off the wings because the wing and body touch. So please stop making it sound like we live in some sheltered bubble. All toys have problems, if you choose to focus solely on yamato's flubs, that's fine. But to say that other companies make flawless toys is just silly.

Come on man, I may be going out of my way to attack Yamato or its people in charge. I didn't expect my replies and comments to be misinterpreted as an attack on anyone who don't share my thinking!!! I just have a different opinion that's all. Look, just don't read my comments as though I'm pissing on your beloved investments... as far as the QC, breakages and what not, I'm pretty much in the same boat with you guys. Don't read the posts drunk. Otherwise, it's game over man!

And besides, references like "...it's as though Yamato had raped my sister or something..." will be met with similar garbage. Don't think as though I enjoy pointing my peanus Yamato's way, well I admit, I used to enjoy point "it" to them for the right reasons anyway. Or what else would you expect?

edited to add:- As far as flubs are concerned, most of examples I mentioned are almost flawless. Almost. I even pointed out that the dumb design problems the Bandai Aquarion had... but it's still light years more durable in playability than any of Yamato's VFs can hope to be. And did I mention that the Aquarion is also a Kawamori design? I'm sure most of you would know that already. That is just a sample of how great our VF toys could be and how much we have been shortchanged by Yamato all these years.

Edited April 21, 2007 by Beware of Blast

[Sumdumgai]

Only things I don't like about the 1/48:

-backpack hinge (god damn thing broke on my Miria, I blame Gamlin )

-nosecone

-low hanging arms in fighter

-limp wrist

-smearable Low Viz v1 paintjob

Otherwise it's all good in my book.

[Ryoma]

Ok, let me tell you my experience, too. I started collecting M+ 1/72 and Macross 1/60 as soon as they came out on the market. I was a big fan of the regular Macross 1/60 not so much of the 1/72 M+. Above all I still remember the day I got my VF-1S ROY with FP...It was like a dream come true...to me it looked like the most beautiful toy i had ever have...anyway I kept collecting 1/60 and when I saw yamato releasing the 1/48 i said to myself that I just would have done the 1/60. And I did it. Until last year. On July 2006 i bought my first valk 1/48. It was a VF-1S Hickaru with FP from Hlj...when i first saw it i was shocked...so much money for two pieces of plastic put together...bleah!!!I decided to ``build it`` but never to buy a 1/48 again...after I applied all the stickers, customized it a little bit, put the FP on...well, slowly I started to love it...besides when I started to transform it I realized the greatness of that model. The posability and the accuracy...( I am still not a big fan of the missiles and how you need to attach them but that`s fine). Now I am proud collector of 1/48. I just received my first VF-1A LOW VIS. (and i have to say it is just great) and ordered a LOW VIS.2 and Urban camo part...not counting that I keep on collecting the 1/60 with the releases of the YF-19 and M0 line.

In the end, i would reccomend to the ones who started to collect the 1/48 to give it a little time...you won`t regret it.

Edited April 21, 2007 by Ryoma

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

No way in hell am I going to agree with the OP on 1/60 being superior to 1/48. It just isn't true. It's main advantages are things like the nose and the proportion on some things like the arms but 1/48 beats it overall imo.

I don't care how unhappy collectors are of the 1/48 compared to bandai SOC. This is a valid criticism. This is something that is probably true. But none of the problems BOB mentions so far have I encountered. I have transformed mine more than twice. What the hell are people doing to their toys?

Bandai may make sturdy toys but their macross 7 stuff is butt ugly. Unilt bandai actually make something as detailed as the vf-1, all comparisons to other toys from other anime are off. The Aquarion is NOT a vf-1. It's like comparing apples to oranges! Otherwise I can just say the Transformers Jetfire classics is a lot more sturdy to the 1/48 and therefore superior because I can throw it to the floor without breaking stuff. "Gee its more durable so it must be better." I can agree that yamato's stuff like koenig monster and the breakage problems with the newer 1/60 releases is unnacceptable (with the threat of stress marks after TForming and all, and toys should be built to last, but I think 1/48 are one level of durability above the newer 1/60 valks from mac + and mac 0. They are not worse than 1/60 to me.

To each his own...

I think people are just pissed it's expensive and not made of diecast. (just like the people who prefer the binal tech toys over alts) Well to me the diecast adds stress and only makes me worry everytime I want to take the FP off the back of the valk. Weight and solidity have nothing to do with it. The plastic is actually pretty strong, just that there is a lot of stress and weight on that hinge. So having a heavy thing add more weight is going to present some problem. Heavier isn't always = better. I've mentioned before how I celebrate the fact the alternators feel light and cheap compared to the BT because they are more playable and no paint chipped.

It's not so much that we have low expectations as we lowered those expectations with the 1/48 since it is more sophisticated than past toys. It's big, it's complex, and has more detail and better sculpt and line art accuracy to the chunky that you can say overall it is a much superior toy. Durability is only 1 factor in a persons purchasing decision. If you are feeling ripped off, I'm sorry. But it doesn't change that it is still the best vf-1 toy out there. Chunky munky isn't superior just because you can throw it around and not have it break. Saying that just ignores other factors that are important which people care about when buying toys. (proportions for example. Heads on the 1/60 are horrible)

For example: MP prime may be heavy and a tough toy but it's floppy and not accurate in sculpt to real truck. What about posability? The weight means it will flop about and stuff? Isn't this just as important consideration? I don't like toys that can only barely stand up. As many people like BOB out there complaining about yammy 1/48 I bet there are many other colectors disappointed with MP prime.

Doesn't mean MP prime isn't the best current toy of optimus prime ever done and that people who are happy with MP prime are people with low standards. You know what I'm saying? It would be like me going into a transformers thread and as a newbie saying: "I don't see what is so great about this masterpiece prime. Just because its the best looking g1 prime out there doesn't count for anything. I feel ripped off even though I own multiples of it and wish they could meet my high expectations. You guy raving about it are deluded fanboys. The original G1 toy was da best since it is kiddy safe. No other factor matters to me"

Now if you bought your 1/60s on clearance prices or at a bargain price off ebay because the seller who owned them wasn't happy with them and wanted to get rid of them quickly and you "feel you got your money's worth", doesn't change that it's just not as good as the 1/48. You getting a good price on a 1/60 doesn't = 1/48 must suck now. Nobody raves about the 1/48 price just that it is the one other companies should look to beat in future if they want to also make a vf-1 since it is the one on the market that people keep still buying. You make votes with your wallet. Because we have to import, it means we get price gouged. So there isn't too much you can do is there? Whether "1/48 are worth the price you pay for" is a seperate issue from "Are 1/48 the best VF-1 toy for a noob to get?"

So if a newbie asks for advice on the best vf-1 toy on the market, it won't surprise me that people still recommend the 1/48 despite price. But the basis of that recommendation isn't because they are deluded, so much as it is currently considered the best option out of all the other choices. Doesn't mean some other company won't be able to come around and maybe whup yamato's ass. You can only pick from what's out there.

Edited April 22, 2007 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Lonely Soldier Boy]

I agree with LowViz Lurker. I've never understood the fascination of US toy collectors with die cast. In my experience die cast always plays against playability wether is because of excessive weight, poor balance or paint chipping. Die cast is useful for swing bars and other strategic pieces that from an engineering standpoint NEED to be made of metal. For the rest I prefer good strong plastic.

Another point for the 1/48 IMHO.

[eugimon]

I agree with LowViz Lurker. I've never understood the fascination of US toy collectors with die cast. In my experience die cast always plays against playability wether is because of excessive weight, poor balance or paint chipping. Die cast is useful for swing bars and other strategic pieces that from an engineering standpoint NEED to be made of metal. For the rest I prefer good strong plastic.

Another point for the 1/48 IMHO.

agreed. when people talk about the good'ol days of die cast, I remember g1 convoy and how easily the legs snapped off at the thighs because of the weight of the lower legs.

[Dangard Ace]

For example: MP prime may be heavy and a tough toy but it's floppy and not accurate in sculpt to real truck. What about posability? The weight means it will flop about and stuff? Isn't this just as important consideration? I don't like toys that can only barely stand up.

Floppy MP Prime? I disagree.

http://tfkenkon.com/collection/masterpiece.php

agreed. when people talk about the good'ol days of die cast, I remember g1 convoy and how easily the legs snapped off at the thighs because of the weight of the lower legs.

Really because G1 Prime/Convoy didn't have any diecast in the lower legs. The diecast was all in the front chest area. Primes legs snapped because the overtightness of the locking mechanism for the legs and/or the cheap brittleness of the plastic used in the thighs.

[eugimon]

Floppy MP Prime? I disagree.

http://tfkenkon.com/collection/masterpiece.php

Really because G1 Prime/Convoy didn't have any diecast in the lower legs. The diecast was all in the front chest area. Primes legs snapped because the overtightness of the locking mechanism for the legs and/or the cheap brittleness of the plastic used in the thighs.

hm, chalk it up to childhood memories then.

[LL Cool VF1J]

No way in hell am I going to agree with the OP on 1/60 being superior to 1/48. It just isn't true. It's main advantages are things like the nose and the proportion on some things like the arms but 1/48 beats it overall imo.

So if a newbie asks for advice on the best vf-1 toy on the market, it won't surprise me that people still recommend the 1/48 despite price. But the basis of that recommendation isn't because they are deluded, so much as it is currently considered the best option out of all the other choices. Doesn't mean some other company won't be able to come around and maybe whup yamato's ass. You can only pick from what's out there.

Bejeezus 1/1 lowviz, I had to take a day off work just to read your one post.

Diecast is great on toys if used in the appropriate parts.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

I can agree with that. But just that sometimes people say something feels cheap because it is light. I feel ripped off paying money for the bandai Mac 7 Valks too if it helps people feel better. Mainly because they are light and feel like I am holding a plastic easter egg. But does that mean they are not durable? Adding diecast wouldn't have made it more playable to me since it just means paint chipping. I'd rather they worked on things like accuracy to the anime and posability.

My main beef is the diecast legs on my 1/72 yf21. The paint is scrapping off in huge chunks everytime I try to transform or handle it. Paint chipping from diecast is as much a valid beef to me as the potential brittleness of plastic in toys that have lots of stress put upon them.

It MAY be the plastic itself, but it could also be what weight that plastic has to support too. (eg heavy diecast FastPacks on a plastic hinge for the 1/48 vf-1. What if the FP weren't diecast but light plastic too? Wouldn't a light fast pack made of plastic put less pressure on the plastic hinge?) So it's not wise to just generalise and say ALL plastic itself is to blame. Or the fact that it feels light and happens to be plastic that it means you got ripped off and bought a hollow easter egg. (bandai valks are light and cheap but strong. How much of that is due to how chunky they like to make their valks though?)

"Durability" can include how resistant to paint chips it is, how much stress you can apply without fear of cracking, and how loose the limbs will be in time. This is a reason why I love the "clicky joints" so the toy can hold the guns or bend its knees without collapsing. I'm as unhappy when I get loose joints for the all-plastic, yamato 1/60 Qrau as I would be with the diecast-legged 1/72 yf-21. The result is all that matters. Things we all want are: Good posablity, stiff joints, playable and transformable without wrecking the paint or cracking, and to be transformable.... but with all the fine details that show authenticity like models do. (so skinny things like head lasers and individual fingers are there and not just block hands)

I'm happy that when I put the gbp armor on the vf-1 that the arms can still click and bend into place and not fall loose under the weight of the armor. (which is light thanks to being plastic) Whether it could do that as a diecast toy or a plastic toy doesn't matter to me, so long as it can do it. Over time maybe the joint will get looser, but from what I have heard the joints are getting tighter in later releases aren't they? I've hardly heard anyone complain about the Vf-1 having loose joints in ages and this is macrossworld where everyone complains.

Edited April 23, 2007 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Beware of Blast]

My main beef is the diecast legs on my 1/72 yf21. The paint is scrapping off in huge chunks everytime I try to transform or handle it. Paint chipping from diecast is as much a valid beef to me as the potential brittleness of plastic in toys that have lots of stress put upon them.

The paint chipping and scrapping off evertime ya transform a Yamato is because they're nothing but a bunch of no-good-too-cheap-for-epoxy hobos. Even the Hasbro Titanium 6"ers has better quality paint. It can only happen to Yamato.

[drifand]

LowVis,

How do you feel about the newer optional display hands that come with the 1/48 GBP set (IIRC)? This is one of those design issues which really bug me and reinforce my opinion of Yamato as 'half-way' designers. What do I mean?

Well, the sculpt of the hands is way better than the scrawny originals for sure, that's not the issue. The issue is: On most modern robot toys, especially for 'Real Robot' designs, the optional hands are provided to simulate the anime-magic 'humanoid' gestures that a standard articulated hand cannot achieve (bar those from the ever improving Bandai Master Grade kits).

But even most of these 'magic hands' more or less have the same practical volume as the originals, ie. you can very easily imagine those hands forming up 'square' and retracting/folding-into their respective forearm housings. This is true for the 'Real Robot' toys Bandai makes, e.g. the SOC Walker Galliar, Xabungle, which require 'retracting hands' for their transformations.

Now look at the 1/48's BIG optional hands. Sure they LOOK good, but they totally betray the thinking behind 'Real Robot' designs. Why such a scenario? Because the designers settled for an original VF-1 design proportion that ended up with long thin and narrow forearms. All that bulking up from the GBP armor only disguises how poorly thought out the Battroid really is. As such, because I love robots more than planes, the 1/48 will always be 'the toy that sacrificed too much', no matter if it is 'the best available' out there.

Just a matter of opinion, folks! Just opinion.

[Dante74]

Just a matter of opinion, folks! Just opinion.

blasphemer! Get him!