Star Wars Order 66...

[Phyrox]

What I remember of the "impossible" mission (if I'm remembering it right, and this isn't just a very hard one I did eventually beat after dozens of tries):

Wave after wave of 3-ship formations, many being T/B. Have to prevent them from destroying a small troop transport (possibly several of them). It'll take like 20 mins for the thing to jump out, by which time you've had to take down dozens of TIE's. Later, they may switch to T/A waves.

That was one of the hardest missions in the game if I remember. I played that one many times. The trench one was super hard, but if I remember you only have to destroy two T/A...I think (it's been many years). I think I hit the towers, destoyed the minimum T/A, and routed all power to engines except enough to maintain sheilds. Then hit the trench. I was lucky in that I had to have the graphics on low to play smoothly, and the trench was comparitivly obstacle-free. An incredibly fun mission that was though.

Although Tie-fighter was a better game, I always liked X-wing a bit more. You felt like an outnumbered, defensive rebel force like you were supposed to. In Tie Fighter I must have single-handedly destroyed the entire rebel fleet three times over, that didn't feel right.

[Warmaker]

Speaking of Star Wars craft, a modeller by the name of Alfred Wong had produced a series of resin model kits, via SMT.

1/51 TIE Defender

1/51 TIE Avenger

1/51 TIE Bomber

1/51 TIE Droid

1/48 Snowspeeder

1/48 AT-AT

1/48 A-Wing

1/48 B-Wing

1/48 X-Wing

1/48 Y-Wing

1/72 YT-2400 "Outrider"

1/48 R-41 Starchaser (for you X-Wing game fans)

I had ordered and received the TIE Avenger and TIE Defender versions (have yet to build them). I was going to get the X-Wing, Snowspeeder, and AT-AT, but the guy got a nasty little "cease and decist" order courtesy of Lucasfilm

Not long after news of the order hitting SMT came out, we then get news of Master Replicas' $1000 AT-AT.

Also, one of our forum members had this put out, 1/24 X-Wing.

Edited April 20, 2007 by Warmaker

[David Hingtgen]

This is a good time to mention the new Fine Molds 1/72 Y-Wing:

http://www.starshipmodeler.com/cfstore/ind...;Product_ID=944

Of course, buying a Y-Wing kit that accurate to the studio model, is more like buying 2 Tiger tank kits, a battleship, and some lasers.

[Warmaker]

Movie accurate Y-Wings would be cool. Lots of exposed parts to get carried away with, unlike most Star Wars craft.

[Uxi]

I wish we could get a new TIE Fighter game... in my dreams it would be based on the NJO and let you fight the Yuuzhan Vong choosing from XJ3 X-wing's, Series 2 E-Wing's, Chiss Clawcraft, and TIE Defenders.

Speaking of which, I got the Action Fleet TIE Defender off Ebay a couple years ago for the outrageous sum of $80. I love that damned thing, though. I have it on a tiny display shelf in my office with the TIE/ln, Vader's TIE Advanced X1, TIE Interceptor, and Darth Maul's TIE/Sith Infiltrator concept for Ep1...

[Dax415]

It's not necessarily true that they knew it was there.

There's a LOT of monkeying you can do with a person's mind, even when you AREN'T writing it from scratch. Even more you can do in a setting where you ARE writing it from scratch and have magic mind control powers on top of that.

It's well within the realm of possibility that until they heard the appropriate command, they would have no memory of the order.

from what i saw in the movie i get the feeling this is what happened, when the order was given it didn't come from the persona of governor palpatine....it came from sidious (unless my memory is off). considering the detail in orchestrating the whole ordeal it makes sense to put a special secret undefiable order among most of your troops against your most hated enemy. as a fail safe lets say darth sidious was captured, all he'd have to do was make sure the order was only executed if he himself made the command, so even from lock down all he'd have to do was say order 66, lets say at a broadcasted trial....and poof the jedi are automatically at war with an entire army whether he was in charge or not. given the sheer hatred sith have of jedi, it would make sense. besides it would also make sense to make sure your army is loyal to you and only you in the first place, otherwise what would be the point in having a bunch of programmed clones.

i guess my point is from what was done in the movies and what was said in battle front 2, it just conflicts.

oh, one more thing....off topic i know...i think it was really lame that darth vader came into being bcause he freakin fell in a lava pit. all this time i figured he had to put the armor on because of all the jedi he hunted fought back.....instead he just wipes out a group of helpless padawans and gets into a fight with one jedi and of course....falls into a lava pit needing to be rescued by someone else. ...ok rant over...

[Warmaker]

Even before the Prequels came out, there already was alot of guesswork that Darth Vader's injuries were from a fight with Obi-Wan Kenobi long before even the events of ANH. There were even some correctly guessing that the injuries were a fiery / hi temperature infliction.

To me, this works well, since Anakin was defeated by the one man who was closest to knowing him inside and out. Obi-Wan and Anakin have been together since Anakin was a small kid fresh off of Tatooine. Everyone else, i.e. the schmucks at the Jedi Temple and Mace Windu, were cut down. Of course, there were more Jedi in that temple than those small Padawans. It was the Jedi Order's HQ, afterall. You see some examples of Anakin killing Jedi from the Holographic Recordings that Obi-Wan and Yoda checked (and Yoda recommended not to view).

Edited April 21, 2007 by Warmaker

[Knight26]

It was explicitly stated in the Return of the Jedi Novelization that the fight that claimed Anakin's injuries was on the side of a volcano. IIRC the original script also included lines by Obi Wan stating that as well.

[Warmaker]

I never read the novelization of RotJ back then. But anyways, fans by far had no grief with Anakin's injuries resulting from his fight with Obi-Wan Kenobi.

[CoryHolmes]

One of the original ideas for the Big Fight was to have it take place deep in the bowels of Coruscant, the idea being that the people built the planet skywards while leaving behind ancient relics of the past buried deep beneath the towers. I think this was one of Ralph Macquarrie's original concept art pieces.

[Effect]

Another good book is Shadows of the Empire. Takes place between ESB and ROTJ, so Vader is alive and kicking. And in thsi book, he very much kicks. Hard and repeatadly does he kick. Lucas has gone on record as saying he would've made that into a movie if it had come out earlier.

Shadows of the Empire is indeed a great book, one of the better ones. I didn't really don't like Zahn's work to much but that's mainly because I can't really stand Mara Jade to much but that most came from that crap he pulled with her and Luke in the Hand of Thrawn series. Some of the EU novels and games are pretty good. The standouts for me in terms of novels are the following.

The Thrawn Trilogy (Heries of the Empire, etc)

Jedi Academy Trilogy

I, Jedi

Shadows of the Empire

Children of the Jedi (I really liked this to be honest, it gets a lot of heat from some eu readers)

X-wing series

Prequel Novels (Cloak of Deception, Revenge of the Sith).

A lot of these books really stayed true to what Star Wars is and was when compared to the films. Far to many of the novels come off as generic science fiction stories that are only Star Wars in name. It really was at it's worst when DelRey took over the novels with the New Jedi Order (which is just plain horrible, no planning, and its like the writers forgot what character development and logic actually was). The Dark Nest trilogy from parts of it I read was no better and I haven't even wasted to the time to flip through the Legacy of the Force novels as it just seems more of what was done in the NJO from those I talk to.

The Clone Wars comics were pretty good as well and I haven't kept up with the new Knights of the Old Republic comic as I'd like but it was good as well. The games I think have always been the best representations of Stars Wars outside of the films. Knights of the Old Republic, Dark Forces 2: Jedi Knight, Jedi Outcast, X-Wing Alliance, etc. Star Wars Galaxies went downhill when they started to focus on the Jedi when they never should have been a class. They never should have gave into that nonsense. They could have gotten away with getting better swords to melee characters I think that at least looked similar to lightsabers and that could have satisfied people. Though Jump to Lightspeed is always fun for some decent spaceship combat. I'd rather have that as a MMORPG by itself. In fact when I played a lot before I stopped some time ago I spent a lot of time in space for that reason only coming down to planets once in a while to upgrade or go to my house.

[Warmaker]

Ah, the NJO and the subsequent Y.Vong invasion.

I utterly despised that. Horrible, horrible. To top it off, to make the series important, they killed off Chewbacca just to make an "oh noes" moment.

What's bad is that some of the few good EU writers got sucked into that toilet flush. Ugh...

[Sumdumgai]

IIRC Obi-wan is said to be Owen Larrs' estranged brother in the RotJ novel. Just goes to show how Lucas changes his original ideas.

I remember going to swapmeets and toy shows with my mom when I was a kid and talking to Star Wars fans selling the old toys, and half of the people talking about Lucas doing Star Wars Episode 1, while the other half were saying that technology hadn't come far enough for him to do it the way he wanted yet (this was back in 1991). Of the group that did talk about Episode 1 being made, they were talking about how Obi-wan defeated Anakin in a volcano and threw him into the lava.

The only major thing that really bothered me with ROTS was that we didn't get to see Vader in the armor hunting down any of the jedi. I wanted to see some Vader in suit with red lightsaber massacring jedi. Minor things that bothered me were the lack of a good space battle, although the opening was impressive, it wasn't as intense space-fighter wise. The cruisers hammering the crap out of each other were awesome. Other thing that bothered me was how fast Dooku bit it. I was looking to more Christopher Lee screen time.

Oh and Aayla Secura's death blew.

[Warmaker]

Seeing a black-clad Darth Vader cutting apart and Force Choking Jedi would've been awesome

As far as the fight with Dooku at Ep.III, not much to say there. At least in the novelization it was far more descriptive and not as abrupt as the actual movie scenes were. The thoughts going through Dooku's head in the novel were interesting also.

I didn't mind Aayla Secura's death. I laughed as much from all the other Jedi deaths since I was looking forward to them dying Each and every single one of them except for Obi-Wan and Yoda were so screwed in so many different ways.

Aayla's was abrupt, quick. Then there were the extra shots, "Just to be sure, sir."

The Speederbike chick? Bit a rock column!

The Jedi Starfighter pilot? WOOSH!

Ki-Adi Mundi? He was charging on a bridge, leading the Clones against the CIS. He stops, feeling something wrong, only to see his Clones point ALL their blasters at him. Hostile Clones (with armored vehicles) behind him. Hostile Droids in front of him. Stuck in the center of a bridge. Yeah, you're f***ed buddy!

-----

Since someone mentioned Star Wars Galaxies, let me get into what was once in SWG.

Combat Upgrade era Jedi Animations

I'm using Jedi as an example since they had by far the most varied animations in SWG before the NGE. Combat animation when the later NGE hit was atrocious and oversimplified. Basically, if you took 2 little kids, gave them styrofoam bats, and told them to hit each other on the head with it, it looks a tad bit like combat does in the NGE "New Game Enhancements."

Another gift from the NGE era of SWG!

Edited April 21, 2007 by Warmaker

[big F]

Since someone mentioned Star Wars Galaxies, let me get into what was once in SWG.

Combat Upgrade era Jedi Animations

I'm using Jedi as an example since they had by far the most varied animations in SWG before the NGE. Combat animation when the later NGE hit was atrocious and oversimplified. Basically, if you took 2 little kids, gave them styrofoam bats, and told them to hit each other on the head with it, it looks a tad bit like combat does in the NGE "New Game Enhancements."

Another gift from the NGE era of SWG!

Im so glad I didnt blow any cash on that.

I think that a bit more Vader action should have been shot, more Rublic and Jedi carve ups

[Veritas]

The fight with Dooku in Ep. III was disappointing to say the least. I really was expecting something more climatic than that 2 min. clinic that Anakin put on. I was more than certain that Dooku was going to bite it at the hands of Annie, but not so easily. Just one of the small things in the movie that had a little more effort been put into, the movie would be that much better.

[Mog]

I really didn't mind the Dooku fight and death scene.

I wouldn't call that scene an Anakin clinic. Dooku was holding his own against both Obi and Ani. And it wasn't until Dooku flung Obi across the room (and dropped the walkway on top of him for good measure ) that Anakin got pissed and opened up the can of whup-ass.

I'm sure the novelization does a good job in describing Dooku's tought-process throughout the whole fight. But I also think the look of shock and surprise on Christopher Lee's face said enough in the movie itself.

If I was to fix anything in ROTS, the Dooku scene would be one I'd leave alone.

............Now as for that "NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111!!!!!!!!" scene, I "get" that it's an homage to Frankenstein. But I really wished they had tweaked THAT scene to make it more raw and visceral.

[CoryHolmes]

............Now as for that "NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111!!!!!!!!" scene, I "get" that it's an homage to Frankenstein. But I really wished they had tweaked THAT scene to make it more raw and visceral.

I'm rather happy with that scene, myself.

[Sumdumgai]

I'm glad they put Vader's arms down in the final release. Having his small hands up and in your face, up by his face, looked really... Stupid.

Well in the novelization of the movie, it goes into how Obi-wan and Anakin were first fighting Dooku with the sword styles they used when last fighting him in AOTC, to get him off guard. Then they switched to styles they hadn't used before that they were extremely proficient at, and started to put lots of pressure on Dooku. Which is why he busted out the force powers and took Obi-wan out of the fight, since there was a bit too much pressure.

Then he started trying to piss Anakin off so he'd make a mistake, but it only made Anakin's attacks more ferocious. Dooku was getting way too tired, but was reassured that Palpatine would step in to stop the fight if anything went wrong (which is supposedly what Palpatine assured him).

Of course we know how trustworthy Darth Sidious is.

[Uxi]

More of that duel on the Invisible Hnad footage DOES exist, though likely not to the effect the novelization went to (which IIRC was based on an earlier form of the script). We have footage from Dooku's dialogue, for example on the Ep3 console game (I have the Xbox version), that didn't make the theatrical cut, for example.

Have to wait to get our ueber-Blu-ray boxed set with extended cuts and deleted scenes from all 6 movies, I suppose.

Did you catch Star by Star, Warmaker? Probably one of the best books in the NJO, particularly in how it covered the larger strategic conflict, but also the tactical scale conflicts such as the Battle of Coruscant and the Black Bantha nebula.

[Effect]

I'm glad they put Vader's arms down in the final release. Having his small hands up and in your face, up by his face, looked really... Stupid.

Well in the novelization of the movie, it goes into how Obi-wan and Anakin were first fighting Dooku with the sword styles they used when last fighting him in AOTC, to get him off guard. Then they switched to styles they hadn't used before that they were extremely proficient at, and started to put lots of pressure on Dooku. Which is why he busted out the force powers and took Obi-wan out of the fight, since there was a bit too much pressure.

Then he started trying to piss Anakin off so he'd make a mistake, but it only made Anakin's attacks more ferocious. Dooku was getting way too tired, but was reassured that Palpatine would step in to stop the fight if anything went wrong (which is supposedly what Palpatine assured him).

Of course we know how trustworthy Darth Sidious is.

That's what I loved about the novel version of Revenge of the Sith. The inner workings of the characters throughout the story were extremely well done and really added a whole new level of depth to the story I felt. I can still remember the opening chapter as the author sets the scene with the families together getting the news of the attack, how Anakin is called the Hero without Fear and Obi-wan is the Negotiator (glad that was kept in the films). Dooku's end in the novel actually made me really apperciate the character a whole lot more and to a degree feel sorry for him. Which is something that didn't happen in the movie. Another thing is that I felt the opening space battle in the novel blew away the battle in the films. Though the ending fight in the movie was a LOT better in the movie then then novel. Guess describing space battles is easier to pull off then lightsaber battles which really should be seen no matter what.

One of the primary reason I feel the X-wing series of novels were so good and why the Jedi focus ones really don't hold a candle to them I feel unless they are largely character driven and not action driven which sadly the NJO was. Then again it could just be personal choice.

The RoTS game did have a number of clips that weren't shown in the film. The whole sewer like scene in the beginning while on GG's ship. A number of them should have been kept in since they weren't that long. I still wish the whole Jedi Temple assualt from the game had been filmed. It would have been long, but I don't think anyone would have complained about time if they were watching that.

Edited April 22, 2007 by Effect

[CoryHolmes]

Dooku was getting way too tired, but was reassured that Palpatine would step in to stop the fight if anything went wrong (which is supposedly what Palpatine assured him).

Of course we know how trustworthy Darth Sidious is.

Ian McDermid really stole that movie. His portrayal of Palpatine just rocked.

[Warmaker]

Did you catch Star by Star, Warmaker? Probably one of the best books in the NJO, particularly in how it covered the larger strategic conflict, but also the tactical scale conflicts such as the Battle of Coruscant and the Black Bantha nebula.

A bit, but I was disenchanted by the characters and how the remaining heroes acted that I never finished the series, just checked summaries to know what happened in the end.

Let get this off now though. I'm not a fan of the New Republic era for most parts. Some stories have been good from that era (Heir to the Empire trilogy), at least to me. But alot of it seemed very strange and vastly different from the Original Trilogy. Maybe I'm just too die hard a fan of the classical Galactic Civil War with the big, evil Empire vs the underdog Rebels fighting the good fight. If it was after RotJ, most of it I didn't like.

I didn't care much for the Y.Vong, since I felt they were a copies of other alien races from other shows.

The only thing that was decent with the NJO books was the overall scope of the invasion since it encompassed alot of fleet actions. But the rest of the luggage weighed it down for me.

-----

Ian McDermid really stole that movie. His portrayal of Palpatine just rocked.

I hear you on that. It seemed he had alot of fun with his last role as Palpatine / Sidious. In the Original Trilogy, you barely saw him, and most of it was only on Ep.VI.

In the Prequels, he was that seemingly "Nice old guy, the Chancellor." He had small parts where he gets to play evil.

But Ep.III? That's where he got the chance to play bad more. The creepy Opera house scene, concluding with "Not from a Jedi" line. When the Jedi Masters come for his arrest towards the end. His fight with Yoda "... and I threw the WHOLE Senate at him, LOL! True story!" Simply put, Ian McDermid had alot more screentime, and he made great use of it, for the benefit of Star Wars fans.

Also, another thing that the Ep.III novelisation did very well was the arrest scene by the Jedi Masters. There's a bit of talk between Master Windu and Chancellor Palpatine, but when it became apparent that the Jedi were arresting him one way or the other with no recourse, Palpatine had this expression of great relief, relishing the moment, "You can't possibly know how long I've been waiting for this" as he brought his lightsaber out.

-----

Here's a Star Wars geekery question. A sort of "What if?"

Who do you think would have handled the Y.Vong invasion better?

The New Republic?

Or the Galactic Empire at its height?

Edited April 23, 2007 by Warmaker

[Effect]

Ah I love and yet hate "what ifs" at the same time.

The Empire I think would have handled things better. I really think they would have never allowed the Vong to gain a foothold and took them serious from the get go which is what the Republic didn't do if I recall correctly. They would have brought the entire Empire down on Vong from the start I think. If we take into account the weapons they had during the EU or would have had things would have gone really different. Even if the Vong managed to gain a defensive position in the galaxy the Empire would have been blowing up planets and actual stars left and right I think to get rid of the Vong. Well this is what I like to think.

[JB0]

Even if the Vong managed to gain a defensive position in the galaxy the Empire would have been blowing up planets and actual stars left and right I think to get rid of the Vong.

WE GOT DEATH STAR!

And Sun Crusher!

And World Devastator.

And... well, you get the point.

In a no-holds-barred fight, the Empire wins. They're not afraid to pull out the big guns for the ultimate in scorched-earth tactics.

[Warmaker]

Better yet, they would be more than happy to "blow s**t up... and planets" in enemy space.

Not counting the Death Stars and such, the Empire also fielded powerful, large warships.

The other thing was that New Republic leadership was fragmented. You even had portions of the New Republic wishing to turn over Luke's new Jedi Order to the Vong in a vain hope that the enemy would leave them alone

"Pretty please? Stop killing us! Here, have these Jedi instead!"

Not only was leadership fragmented until much too late, it was also hesitant.

The Empire?

"Planet destroyed, sir. Shall we move on to the next one?"

[big F]

I think the empire would win hands down. All that proficent order and clinical killing.

"Sir theres two surviors left planet side"

"Commander destroy the planet"

You get the idea

[Mog]

That, and failure within the Empire usually resulted in a video call from everyone's favorite black-clad Sith Lord.......

<Imperial Admiral>: "Lord Vadar........Ahck!!" [drops dead]

[Warmaker]

Darth Vader had great lines in the Original Trilogy. One of my favorite parts was in ESB.

Darth Vader: "The admiral is as clumsy as he is stupid."

*Raises Adm.Ozzel on screen*

Adm.Ozzel: "Ah, Lord Vader, we have just arr- ACK!!!"

Darth Vader: "You have failed me for the last time, admiral."

Adm.Ozzel: "ACKKK!!!"

Darth Vader: "Captain Piett."

Capt.Piett: *sideways, wary glance at his admiral* "Y-Yes Lord Vader."

Darth Vader: "You are in command of the fleet now. Prepare for assault."

Adm.Ozzel: *GASP*Collapse*

Capt.Piett: "Yes my Lord."

Darth Vader: "Do not fail me... Admiral."

Edited April 25, 2007 by Warmaker

[Uxi]

Here's a Star Wars geekery question. A sort of "What if?"

Who do you think would have handled the Y.Vong invasion better?

The New Republic?

Or the Galactic Empire at its height?

"That's not what the Empire would have done... What the Empire would have done was build a supercolossal Yuuzhan Vong-killing battle machine. They would have called it the Nova Colossus...Galaxy Destructor or the Nostril of Palpatine or something equally grandiose... And you know what would have happened? It wouldn't have worked. They'd forget to bolt down a metal plate over an access hatch leading to the main reactors, or some other mistake, and a hotshot enemy pilot would drop a bomb down there and blow the whole thing up. Now that's what the Empire would have done."

Han Solo to Vana Dorja - Destiny's Way

[Warmaker]

"That's not what the Empire would have done... What the Empire would have done was build a supercolossal Yuuzhan Vong-killing battle machine. They would have called it the Nova Colossus...Galaxy Destructor or the Nostril of Palpatine or something equally grandiose... And you know what would have happened? It wouldn't have worked. They'd forget to bolt down a metal plate over an access hatch leading to the main reactors, or some other mistake, and a hotshot enemy pilot would drop a bomb down there and blow the whole thing up. Now that's what the Empire would have done."

Han Solo to Vana Dorja - Destiny's Way

That's a big negative. It won't happen.

Why?

Because the Empire wouldn't have to face against the greatest power of any kind of storytelling:

HERO SYNDROME!

[Warmaker]

Robot Chicken + Lucas + Mark Hamill = Upcoming Spoof

[big F]

Darth Vader had great lines in the Original Trilogy. One of my favorite parts was in ESB.

Darth Vader: "The admiral is as clumsy as he is stupid."

*Raises Adm.Ozzel on screen*

Adm.Ozzel: "Ah, Lord Vader, we have just arr- ACK!!!"

Darth Vader: "You have failed me for the last time, admiral."

Adm.Ozzel: "ACKKK!!!"

Darth Vader: "Captain Piett."

Capt.Piett: *sideways, wary glance at his admiral* "Y-Yes Lord Vader."

Darth Vader: "You are in command of the fleet now. Prepare for assault."

Adm.Ozzel: *GASP*Collapse*

Capt.Piett: "Yes my Lord."

Darth Vader: "Do not fail me... Admiral."

The ultimate expression of the term "field Promotion"

[Smiley424]

anyone looking for a good Star Wars story, check out the Star Wars Legacy graphic novel that's supposed to come out May 2. It's set 150+ after the Battle of Yavin and the story revolves around a descendant of Luke Skywalker, Cade Skywalker, who gave up being a Jedi and using the Force after the Sith destroyed the Jedi Order. The Sith are led by Darth Krayt, who defied Sith teachings and revoked the "Rule of Two". The New Empire is also a player, led by Emperor Roan Fel (I assume he's a descendant Baron Fel from Rogue Squadron) who have their own group of Force-users, the Imperial Knights. They are loyal first to the Emperor, not the Jedi Order or the Force, and use identical grey-bladed lightsabers.

[Warmaker]

I'm not too fond of the Legacy era either but I did dig around for some info of the era.

For one thing, non-humans and females are permitted in the Stormtroopers. The 501st "Vader's Fist," the Legion that marched into the Jedi Temple for Order 66 still exists and was the last of the pure clone formations. But in the Legacy era, it no longer has that pure clone distinction.

The Empire isn't the same 'ol "Palpatine's Empire" though. It's still "bad" but with a touch of "softness"