Star Wars Order 66...

[Warmaker]

The first RC book, yes. I hate Triple Zero with a passion.

That's only because stupid fanchildren raised holy hell when they found out they couldn't play as Jedi. It was said right from the start that the path to the Jedi was long and hard and very few people would actually get the chance to try. Then whiners started whining, "OMG a star wars game. I wanna be jedi!!!111oneoneone".

I was looking forward to playing as a regular Joe in a SW computer game, but that's not likely now.

That was the nice thing with SWG until the focus on Jedi. The game was centered on the regular people that populated the Star Wars universe.

Then one day the devs said, "People don't want to be Owen Lars when they want to be Luke Skywalkerl!!!!!15jh!"

There was a point that going into PvP as a Non-Jedi character was a liability and got you booted from a group. That's how many Jedi there were in SWG

"We don't need healers. Boot the Doctor off and get Jedi Master WhatzHizNutz in!1!!11one!"

Duke Floorwalker: "Hey, what about me? I'm pretty good with a ligthsaber too!"

The other 30 Jedi: "So are we."

On the Imperial side:

Dorth Sadius: "We need more Jedi. Hey, there's another, Darth Mool. Boot off the guy wearing Stormtrooper Armor. We need Jedi, not Stormies."

That game became a travesty.

Are you still on SWG or did you leave? It sounds like you were there in 2003 or 2004 before disaster struck. I left shortly after the introduction of the NGE debacle

[Duke Togo]

Call me old fashioned, but I preferred the Galactic Civil War the way it originally was.

Rebels vs Imperials

X-Wings vs TIEs

Rebel infantry vs Stormtroopers

Emperor Palpatine & Darth Vader, no "extra fat"

Luke Skywalker, last of the Jedi, since Yoda was in his last years of his life and will die.

Totally agree. I don't like any of the Force hocus-pocus stuff, either.

[Duke Togo]

This problem arose from the fact that "Sith" was never seen in any script of the first three films. In any publication material, it was "Dark Jedi". Only later was the Sith added as a seperate, distinctive off-shoot of the Jedi Order.

Wikipedia states:

The first use of the word Sith (in the Star Wars Universe) was in the script and novelization for Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope, as a title for Darth Vader, the "Dark Lord of the Sith."

[lord_breetai]

Actually there is an earlier version of one of the title scrolls that states Darth Vader as being one of many Sith Lords in the Emperors Employ for the original movie, obviously that was changed but I think you can find a lot of earlier mentions of the sith.

Yeah, I wouldn't play Star Wars Galaxies... maybe some day they'll make a new Star Wars MMO and do it right.

[Duke Togo]

An Old Republic MMO done by another company would get my attention. Sure sure, I know, everybody is a Jedi, but think about the Mandalorians!

[Hurin]

They may have been clones, but they were still human. The order was implanted in their brains. . . hence their memories. . . since they were cloned. So, yes, they knew the order was there. But along with the order, I assume, was the directive that it remain secret.

Were they "waiting for it?" Probably not. It was there just "in case" the Jedi ever became disloyal to the Republic/Empire. And of course, that's exactly what Sidious accused them of being.

[JB0]

They may have been clones, but they were still human. The order was implanted in their brains. . . hence their memories. . . since they were cloned. So, yes, they knew the order was there. But along with the order, I assume, was the directive that it remain secret.

Were they "waiting for it?" Probably not. It was there just "in case" the Jedi ever became disloyal to the Republic/Empire. And of course, that's exactly what Sidious accused them of being.

It's not necessarily true that they knew it was there.

There's a LOT of monkeying you can do with a person's mind, even when you AREN'T writing it from scratch. Even more you can do in a setting where you ARE writing it from scratch and have magic mind control powers on top of that.

It's well within the realm of possibility that until they heard the appropriate command, they would have no memory of the order.

[CoryHolmes]

Wikipedia states:

The first use of the word Sith (in the Star Wars Universe) was in the script and novelization for Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope, as a title for Darth Vader, the "Dark Lord of the Sith."

My mistake. I should've said, "spoken".

[trueblueeyes]

Completely off topic here, but I didn't want to start a new thread just to ask one question. Now I haven't read any Star Wars fiction in years. But after reading the jacket cover of a book in the new Legacy Of The Force series in my local book store, I'm now a little interested. Has anyone read any of the books in the series? I'm just wondering if they are worth buying and reading...at least as a distraction in noisy airports (long trip soon).

[Lightning]

I've a question as well: what's "EU" mean? Empire Universe??

[wolfx]

I've a question as well: what's "EU" mean? Empire Universe??

Expanded Universe.

EU is anything outside of the movies, i think and seems most people don't treat it as canon.

My question is.......Is Chewbacca dead or not? >_>

[Smiley424]

If you accept Star Wars EU, then last I checked, Chewie died in the first book of the New Jedi Order series. Never got into the NJO or anything after that, so I have no idead about Legacy of the Force series. I do suggest people check out the comic Star Wars Legacy, though it has not been collected into a graphic novel yet. Also, check out the new Knighs of the Old Republic series, first graphic novel just came out. Though it stars a different jedi padawan, it touches into storylines from KOTAR the game. Its set during the Mandolorian War and we get to see some pre-Sith Revan and Malak. I think its very well done, fans of KOTAR the game should check it out.

[David Hingtgen]

KOTOR is one of the few comics I read now, and the best SW EU I've seen a long time. (I ignore most of it--it's all downhill from Heir to the Empire) Of course, I am a huge fan of the KOTOR games. But still---KOTOR is more "old school" SW than just about anything else nowadays.

[Warmaker]

Another hilarious tidbit from the EU is a criminal STEALING an Eclipse Star Destroyer, a ship larger and far more powerful than ESB/RotJ's Executor Star Destroyer. Courtesty of the ridiculous Forces of Corruption expansion pack to Empire at War.

[CoryHolmes]

Completely off topic here, but I didn't want to start a new thread just to ask one question. Now I haven't read any Star Wars fiction in years. But after reading the jacket cover of a book in the new Legacy Of The Force series in my local book store, I'm now a little interested. Has anyone read any of the books in the series? I'm just wondering if they are worth buying and reading...at least as a distraction in noisy airports (long trip soon).

Personally, no. I despise the New Jedi Order and the Legacy of the Force. Those two series' do absolutly nothing good for me. On the other hand, if you want a much better series try the X-Wing and Wraith Squadron novels. But that's just my opinion, so take it with a grain of salt.

Eclipse Star Destroyer, a ship larger and far more powerful than ESB/RotJ's Executor Star Destroyer.

Not anymore. The Super Star Destroyer has been retconned to 19km long, from the original 8km as quoted in the earlier novels.

Edited April 19, 2007 by CoryHolmes

[Knight26]

last star wars comic I bought was rouge squadron, now that was a good series, as were the books.

[Warmaker]

Not anymore. The Super Star Destroyer has been retconned to 19km long, from the original 8km as quoted in the earlier novels.

I forgot that Lucasfilm officially made the SSD back to the glorious size it deserves. I never was a believer in the 8km version, I was in the 17.6km club (for those that don't know the whole SSD size debate... you don't want to know ). But 19km? Fine by me, since 8km was far too small if one kept their eyes open in ESB and RotJ.

Anyways, the Eclipse is no longer as large, but it is more powerful. It still has a scaled down version of the Death Star Laser on its bow.

----------

There are a few things in the EU that are noteworthy IMO, in how they enhance the feel and theme of the movies, not trivialize or completely go against them.

GAMES

X-Wing series of games by Lawrence Holland.

- X-Wing, to include expansion packs B-Wing and Imperial Pursuit

- TIE Fighter, to include expansion packs Enemies of the Empire and Defender of the Empire. The gameplay was hard (flying an unshielded TIE and such) but the story was truly outstanding. It is the ONLY Star Wars game where you get a chance to fly as Darth Vader's wingman to kick some serious a**!

- X-Wing vs TIE Fighter, to include Balance of Power expansion.

- X-Wing Alliance, the last good Star Wars space game before utter trash took over (*ahem* Rogue Squadron series) and their limited scopes of flying.

Knights of the Old Republic I, great Star Wars story! The sequel was ambitious, however it was buggy and horribly, blatantly incomplete.

BOOKS

Most of Timothy Zahn's works. The cream of the crop of his works and the EU novels:

- Heir to the Empire Trilogy, his first and best set of books for Star Wars. Set years after RotJ, the books really do feel like a true sequel to RotJ, a sort of Ep.VII. Best introduced character and the EU in general? Grand Admiral Thrawn.

- Hand of Thrawn Duology, his follow up books to Heir to the Empire.

- Outbound Flight, set before the Clone Wars, it covers a big aspect from Zahn's previous books as well as a critical period in the last years of the Old Republic, as well as Thrawn's earlier years.

Survivor's Quest is so so by EU readers. Some like it, some think it's too slow. I thought it was ok, but that was just me.

Next I pick:

- Revenge of the Sith Novelisation by Matthew Stover. Simply put, as a book, it was much more in depth, much more detailed, and far more satisfying than the actual movie. Also, the key thing was that Anakin Skywalker's fall was much more believable in the book than the hasty downfall in the movie. In the book, it was slow, gradual. Several important scenes from the movie were done in a superior fashion in the book. A highly recommended read.

- Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader by James Luceno. Taking place right after Ep.III. The book is focused on Vader's early years in the new Empire, especially his injuries from Mustafar, and the interesting relationship between Sith Master & Apprentice.

I'm still in the early stages of reading Zahn's "Allegiance," set in the aftermath of ANH.

Edited April 19, 2007 by Warmaker

[Sumdumgai]

I liked Palpatine's set-up for when Mace Windu and his posse came to arrest him, in the book. Much more sneaky and evil.

[Jolly Rogers]

Those Lawrence Holland space sims brought back fond memories... unlike most games built on a known license, they were actually awesome to play and did not suck at all.

[Knight26]

I forgot that Lucasfilm officially made the SSD back to the glorious size it deserves. I never was a believer in the 8km version, I was in the 17.6km club (for those that don't know the whole SSD size debate... you don't want to know ). But 19km? Fine by me, since 8km was far too small if one kept their eyes open in ESB and RotJ.

Anyways, the Eclipse is no longer as large, but it is more powerful. It still has a scaled down version of the Death Star Laser on its bow.

----------

There are a few things in the EU that are noteworthy IMO, in how they enhance the feel and theme of the movies, not trivialize or completely go against them.

GAMES

X-Wing series of games by Lawrence Holland.

- X-Wing, to include expansion packs B-Wing and Imperial Pursuit

- TIE Fighter, to include expansion packs Enemies of the Empire and Defender of the Empire. The gameplay was hard (flying an unshielded TIE and such) but the story was truly outstanding. It is the ONLY Star Wars game where you get a chance to fly as Darth Vader's wingman to kick some serious a**!

- X-Wing vs TIE Fighter, to include Balance of Power expansion.

- X-Wing Alliance, the last good Star Wars space game before utter trash took over (*ahem* Rogue Squadron series) and their limited scopes of flying.

Knights of the Old Republic I, great Star Wars story! The sequel was ambitious, however it was buggy and horribly, blatantly incomplete.

BOOKS

Most of Timothy Zahn's works. The cream of the crop of his works and the EU novels:

- Heir to the Empire Trilogy, his first and best set of books for Star Wars. Set years after RotJ, the books really do feel like a true sequel to RotJ, a sort of Ep.VII. Best introduced character and the EU in general? Grand Admiral Thrawn.

- Hand of Thrawn Duology, his follow up books to Heir to the Empire.

- Outbound Flight, set before the Clone Wars, it covers a big aspect from Zahn's previous books as well as a critical period in the last years of the Old Republic, as well as Thrawn's earlier years.

Survivor's Quest is so so by EU readers. Some like it, some think it's too slow. I thought it was ok, but that was just me.

Next I pick:

- Revenge of the Sith Novelisation by Matthew Stover. Simply put, as a book, it was much more in depth, much more detailed, and far more satisfying than the actual movie. Also, the key thing was that Anakin Skywalker's fall was much more believable in the book than the hasty downfall in the movie. In the book, it was slow, gradual. Several important scenes from the movie were done in a superior fashion in the book. A highly recommended read.

- Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader by James Luceno. Taking place right after Ep.III. The book is focused on Vader's early years in the new Empire, especially his injuries from Mustafar, and the interesting relationship between Sith Master & Apprentice.

I'm still in the early stages of reading Zahn's "Allegiance," set in the aftermath of ANH.

I would add the Stackpole "Rogue Squadron" Books to that list, IMHO he and Zahn are the only EU writers worth reading. Well maybe Alan Dean Foster's Splinter of the Minds Eye too, the original EU book, and what should have been the first sequel if Lucas hadn't pulled out of their deal.

[David Hingtgen]

TIE Fighter is still the best PC game I've ever played, and the best "space sim" game I've ever played. Being in the SW universe just makes it even better.

[JB0]

TIE Fighter is still the best PC game I've ever played, and the best "space sim" game I've ever played. Being in the SW universe just makes it even better.

And being the BAD GUY is just icing on the cake.

I really should hunt down the CD version of that game(I gather the final expansion pack was only available there, and Defender of the Empire ends on a bit of a cliffhanger, but hell, I never made it through the original retail campaign).

...

And get a DOS box set up again to play it on.

I really love the old LucasArts games, though.

'Specially musically. iMUSE was awesome.

[lord_breetai]

I would add the Stackpole "Rogue Squadron" Books to that list, IMHO he and Zahn are the only EU writers worth reading. Well maybe Alan Dean Foster's Splinter of the Minds Eye too, the original EU book, and what should have been the first sequel if Lucas hadn't pulled out of their deal.

As I understand it it was the back up sequal if Lucas didn't have enough money to produce Empire... but it would even then just be filler till Empire came out, That's also why didn't have Han Lucas wasn't sure he'd be able to get Harrison Ford back.

There are a couple EU others I like beyond Zand... but I havn't read Star Wars books in a long time.

As for Games... Tie Fighter is awesome for sure but I also like the Arcade game "Star Wars Tirology Arcade" by Sega... not that deep... basically just move the cursor and shoot but I find it fun... when it doesn't glitch... which is often.

[JB0]

As for Games... Tie Fighter is awesome for sure but I also like the Arcade game "Star Wars Tirology Arcade" by Sega... not that deep... basically just move the cursor and shoot but I find it fun... when it doesn't glitch... which is often.

Don't forget the original Atari arcade!

Sure it's just Death Star runs to infinity and beyond, but it's damn slick Death Star runs.

[Warmaker]

Again, the X-Wing game series was bada**.

For TIE Fighter, I did not play the original version. I played it after extensive time on X-Wing vs TIE Fighter (finishing with 3000+ kills against X-Wings alone ). The version of TIE Fighter I played was through the X-Wing Collector's Series. It had everything up to X-Wing vs TIE Fighter, which they only gave a demo of. The version of TIE Fighter with this set was using the XvT engine, but the interfaces with the briefings, secret meetings, etc. were still TIE Fighter.

I know there was another set called "X-Wing Trilogy" that had X-Wing, TIE Fighter, demo of X-Wing vs TIE Fighter, and X-Wing Alliance.

I loaded up the XWCS version of TIE Fighter on my sister's laptop that had WinXP. You needed to d/l a special XP patch for it to run right. Other than that, it was flawless. If you deal with the oudated graphics, you're in for some great space combat, not the utter trash of scabs like Rogue Squadron and Rogue Leader.

For those that still do have X-Wing Alliance, the last of the X-Wing game series, here are 2 of several still existing sites for it.

Darksaber's X-Wing Station

X-Wing Alliance Upgrade Project

XWAUP is a fan project to update X-Wing Alliance's graphics to current standards (check the screenshots section). It has been slowly worked on since XWA first came out in 1998. Their work is quite wonderful. The team are sticklers for as much canon accuracy as possible, unlike most official Star Wars games these days considering the technology available. Both Darksaber's and the XWAUP sites are related since Darksaber is a big figure in the XWAUP boards and has contributed to the project.

The game TIE Fighter like I said was tough. Any schmuck can fly a shielded starfighter. ANYBODY. But can you fly, fight, and survive in a flimsy, unshielded craft like a TIE Fighter or TIE Interceptor? A single grazing shot almost brings you to a cold death in space. It is a challenge to participate on a starfighter strike / suppression of point defenses against a warship just flying a TIE. It is a challenge to fly a TIE inside a minefield in space (mines that shoot) with enemy fighters shooting at you... and maybe a warship also.

Succeeding in a TIE meant very aggressive flying, flying like you were going to die in the next few seconds, yet still retaining situational awareness and control.

I recall an awesome moment in TIE Fighter, where you flew a very hard mission to destroy a discovered station and supply point supporting the Rebellion. You finally clear off the main starfighter defense, then a transmission from the Imperial commander let's out:

"For the greater glory of the Empire, destroy everything!!!"

The "Imperial March" theme song begins to play.

The Rebel survivors are trying to flee in shuttles and transports are releasing their cargo to get away faster... the Rebels are in a total rout.

You and follow on Imperial forces begin to chase down and annihalate them.

It was highly satisfying

P.S.- X-Wings are easy to shoot up. Their shape acts like a big, huge, inviting "BULLSEYE" and it lines up perfectly with my laser sights / sensors.

Edited April 20, 2007 by Warmaker

[JB0]

Again, the X-Wing game series was bada**.

For TIE Fighter, I did not play the original version. I played it after extensive time on X-Wing vs TIE Fighter (finishing with 3000+ kills against X-Wings alone ). The version of TIE Fighter I played was through the X-Wing Collector's Series. It had everything up to X-Wing vs TIE Fighter, which they only gave a demo of. The version of TIE Fighter with this set was using the XvT engine, but the interfaces with the briefings, secret meetings, etc. were still TIE Fighter.

No iMUSE = lame.

The original and CD versions of XWing and TIE Fighter had an adaptive soundtrack that varied in connection with in-game events, and seamlessly shifted from one piece to another.

The Collector's Series version had redbook audio, which is... well, static.

That's part of why many fans prefer the DOS versions, despite them being visually inferior.

MIDI FOREVER!

The game TIE Fighter like I said was tough. Any schmuck can fly a shielded starfighter. ANYBODY. But can you fly, fight, and survive in a flimsy, unshielded craft like a TIE Fighter or TIE Interceptor? A single grazing shot almost brings you to a cold death in space. It is a challenge to participate on a starfighter strike / suppression of point defenses against a warship just flying a TIE. It is a challenge to fly a TIE inside a minefield in space (mines that shoot) with enemy fighters shooting at you... and maybe a warship also.

Succeeding in a TIE meant very aggressive flying, flying like you were going to die in the next few seconds, yet still retaining situational awareness and control.

The "TIE Fighter is harder" comments are kinda funny, actually.

XWing was well known as an obscenely hard game, at least in it's original form. TIE Fighter was toned down significantly.

Sure you had shields in an XWing, but you were also fighting against overwhelming odds. They toned several of the levels down massively for the CD-ROM edition and the subsequent VS-engine versions due to complaints.

You also get access to shielded ships in TIE Fighter, so it's not really like you're flying naked. Heck, the game is the origin of the TIE Defender that showed up in some of the novels and made XWing pilots excrete masonry.

The Defender is deliciously powerful as a side note, even if the TIE Advanced looked better(and for sheer style, NOTHING beats the Interceptor).

I recall an awesome moment in TIE Fighter, where you flew a very hard mission to destroy a discovered station and supply point supporting the Rebellion. You finally clear off the main starfighter defense, then a transmission from the Imperial commander let's out:

"For the greater glory of the Empire, destroy everything!!!"

The "Imperial March" theme song begins to play.

The Rebel survivors are trying to flee in shuttles and transports are releasing their cargo to get away faster... the Rebels are in a total rout.

You and follow on Imperial forces begin to chase down and annihalate them.

It was highly satisfying

Indeed.

DEATH TO THE REBEL SCUM!

[trueblueeyes]

Personally, no. I despise the New Jedi Order and the Legacy of the Force. Those two series' do absolutly nothing good for me. On the other hand, if you want a much better series try the X-Wing and Wraith Squadron novels. But that's just my opinion, so take it with a grain of salt.

Thanks for the help! The X-Wing novels were actually some of the last Star Wars fiction I ever read and enjoyed so I will trust your judgement of the new series. I think I will just save the cash and pick up a copy of The Children Of Hurin instead.

[Warmaker]

The "TIE Fighter is harder" comments are kinda funny, actually.

XWing was well known as an obscenely hard game, at least in it's original form. TIE Fighter was toned down significantly.

Sure you had shields in an XWing, but you were also fighting against overwhelming odds. They toned several of the levels down massively for the CD-ROM edition and the subsequent VS-engine versions due to complaints.

You also get access to shielded ships in TIE Fighter, so it's not really like you're flying naked. Heck, the game is the origin of the TIE Defender that showed up in some of the novels and made XWing pilots excrete masonry.

The Defender is deliciously powerful as a side note, even if the TIE Advanced looked better(and for sheer style, NOTHING beats the Interceptor).

Indeed.

DEATH TO THE REBEL SCUM!

The later game introduction of the TIE Advanced and TIE Defender was interesting. You get so used to flying unshielded TIE Fighters, TIE Interceptors, and TIE Bombers. Sometimes you had the luck to fly the sluggish but survivable Cygnus Gunboat. But mostly it was unshielded TIEs. Then late in the campaign, you try out the T/A and T/D. Which was weird since you now had shields. The T/A flew wonderfully. But the T/D, IMO, was the very definition and posterboy of "Superfighter" when it comes to games

But the excitement was in flying the unshielded TIEs since you were really on the edge of your seat.

Later, when multiplayer became possible with X-Wing vs TIE Fighter and onwards, I still preferred the TIE Interceptor. The T/I is a really nasty ship! Fast, highly maneuverable, and possessing highly respectable firepower with 4 lasers. It was tempered with no shields and a flimsy hull. But the better TIE players tended to favor the Interceptor.

But flying the TIE Fighter on multiplayer was still fun. Most people don't think much of the standard TIE Fighter, but in the right hands was a good shocker to Rebel pilots. The speed was higher and more maneuverable than any Alphabet Fighter than the A-Wing. It seemed undergunned with only 2 lasers, but it had a very high rate of fire, firing at a faster rate than 4 laser armed starfighters set to single-sequential fire modes. A TIE Fighter had a chance to shred a craft up in short order with a short, fast, dense stream of fire.

There was another TIE that if flown right, was a real shocker to Rebel pilots. The TIE Bomber. The TIE Bomber doesn't fly too fast, but was an absolutely wonderful low speed turning "fighter." Acceleration and Deceleration was sluggish, but if you use the maneuverability right, you'll get chances to shoot the rear of your pursuing Alphabet Fighter. It really surprised alot of players, since most players were dogfighters, not boom & zoomers. Most prefer chasing each others' tails in dogfights. But the TIE Bomber was good in that, especially if they fell for the low speed turning trick

Oh, let's not forget the flying missile launcher, the Missile Boat!

Edited April 20, 2007 by Warmaker

[David Hingtgen]

X-Wing was HARD. Never beat it. I don't recall it exactly, but I stopped at one mission that just had insane odds, and even flying better than I ever had, I didn't even come close. I tried for a long time to beat it--basically until the B-Wing pack came out. Beat the B-Wing pack except for the last mission, which was the trench run, but in a B-Wing. Yeesh, even using cheat codes (long after I had given up) the Death Star missions in X-Wing are just insane. "Take out all 75 gun emplacements within 10 miles of the trench---you have 10 mins, and 50 T/A's are coming after you"

TIE Fighter--that was actually beatable, and fun. And the T/I is the best. (You know someone played TIE Fighter if they type stuff as TIE, T/I, T/B, T/A, and T/D)

The later expansions weren't as good, the tractor beam was just a gimmick---but it did have one nifty use: Very late, you could get it on the basic TIE and Interceptor. But it didn't take away from the engine or laser power, it added to the total power available. So if you took away all its recharge power, you could either keep your 110 speed in a T/I while recharging lasers, or "maintain charge" lasers, with like 130 speed!

Also, I learned more about EU ships from TIE Fighter than anything else----everyone remembers how much harder Modified Frigates are to take down than standard Nebulon-B's. It's also about the only place to see a Nebulon-B in its intended role as an IMPERIAL ship.

[Akilae]

man.. TIE Fighter....

I used to cringe whenever they sent you out on Missile Boat missions... 99% of the time it meant you were going to be the only Imperial ship in the entire mission...

While the T/D was a superfighter, personally I enjoyed flying the T/A more. The T/A was faster and more agile fighter, while the T/D was more heavily armed. Being used to flying the T/I for half of the game, the T/A responded better somehow.

The most intense mission was when Zaarin was smoked out as a traitor and it's you in a lone, unshielded T/I against a star destroyer and its entire contingent of fighters as you waited for the Order to jump in and pick you up.

It would rock if they let could let you fly a death star mission from the Imperial side... the very last mission is you sending off the Emperor as he warps off...

[CoryHolmes]

Another good book is Shadows of the Empire. Takes place between ESB and ROTJ, so Vader is alive and kicking. And in thsi book, he very much kicks. Hard and repeatadly does he kick. Lucas has gone on record as saying he would've made that into a movie if it had come out earlier.

[Axelay]

ZOMG. The Tie Avenger is pretty much my all-time favorite Tie Fighter. I really don't get into EU that much, but I religiously played all of the X-Wing and Tie Fighter flight sim games. I can also proudly say that I've beaten all of them, even though I got stuck on quite a few of the missions.

Anyway, something I thought Tie Avenger fans would appreciate:

Dibal's Lego Tie Avenger

I have drooled over this thing for years now. I've never been able to contact the guy who created it, but I'd still pay a handsome sum of money for some blueprints of this exact model.

[Knight26]

The two hardest missions in X-Wing had to be the one with the medical frigate where the imperial frigate keeps jumping in all over the place dumping tie fighters, and the final trench run. The only way I ever beat the trench run was to dive in low, target the exhaust port then to pull out of the trench until I was less then 10 klicks away before diving back in, otherwise you just get shredded by cannonfire. The frigate mission was such a pain it was actually mentioned in the first Rogue Squadron novel.

[Jolly Rogers]

As hard as the missions in the original versions of X-Wing and TIE Fighter were, I managed to beat them all without cheat codes (but ruined quite a few joysticks in the process). No other game gives you the kind of satisfaction when you manage to survive the trench run.

Some took numerous tries... but that's part of the fun. Trying to figure out when and what to do to keep the odds from becoming impossible.

Lucasarts should reboot the series with updated graphics and XP/Vista compatibility. The lack of iMuse and story in XvT was what killed it for me.

Too bad I never managed to grab a TIE Defender from Galoob, don't think I ever saw them in stores.

Edited April 20, 2007 by Jolly Rogers

[David Hingtgen]

What I remember of the "impossible" mission (if I'm remembering it right, and this isn't just a very hard one I did eventually beat after dozens of tries):

Wave after wave of 3-ship formations, many being T/B. Have to prevent them from destroying a small troop transport (possibly several of them). It'll take like 20 mins for the thing to jump out, by which time you've had to take down dozens of TIE's. Later, they may switch to T/A waves.