Aoshima Variable 1/48 Legioss for 2007

[Fort Max]

Lol, Nami Toi got cuckolded!

[Phyrox]

Baseline is that we're getting an Aoshima Legioss. It looks remarkably similar to Nami Toi's MPC Alpha, but aside from that there is no proof/ hard evidence it is based off the MPC.

Their statement does actually say, albeit in a tortured translation, that they will be producing a slightly improved Toynami MPC.

It WILL be based on the MPC if we can trust them.

How much of an improvement remains to be seen. So far it doesn't sound like much. If they improve the fit and some of the joints that would be a big step, but that would be a lot of trouble I imagine.

Edited April 17, 2007 by Phyrox

[Lonely Soldier Boy]

If Aoshima is reworking the Nami Toys without their permission, is safe to assume we won't be seeing any Betas for them. If there's an agreement between them, then a Beta being made for both toys is a sure thing.

[Hiriyu]

Cool, thanks for the info guys. As this is obviously a cooperative agreement between Aoshima and Nami Toy, I don't think that either party will be upset with the results... Nami Toi gets to make money which they otherwise wouldn't by licensing the design (and/or molds, or even possibly actual toys), and Aoshima gets to make money with a "new" enhanced product which sets theirs apart. With this deal, there may even be better reason to pursue Tread production. Competition in the form of the CMs pairing may not even be an issue.

For my money, I'm thinking Aoshima has an option on the molds themselves (or derivatives thereof). It sounds kind of silly to suggest that they would want to modify already existent N.O.S. parts.

[Lynx7725]

Actually, I'm not sure if it's a cooperative effort. I'm not sure how much I should read into the blog entry, but the idea that it's OEM is a big odd point.

To me, it could be read as the factory, not Nami Toi, selling MPC Alpha parts (and not entire assembled toys) to Aoshima, which would take these parts to refit/ improve. This makes more sense rather than taking assembled toys, disassemble, refit then reassemble. It doesn't sound like Aoshima is buying up stock from the old 15K run, but rather spares and parts from the factory itself.

In which case, it's likely to be a big sticking point between Nami Toi and Aoshima (unless it's already been worked out and it is truly a cooperative effort). It is possible that Nami Toi gave the project its blessing, in which case we are truly getting an Alpha-plus. A lot depends on the contract Nami Toi has with the Chinese manufactory, but TBH I don't think they are that careless with these terms.

The other issue about this is more towards the fit-and-finish. Since Aoshima is still using base parts from the Alpha, and fit-and-finish is an integral part of the design process, it's hard to see how Aoshima can improve on it. Certainly I expect certain improvements, especially in posability and such, but they still end up working within the MPC framework, and you can only improve on it so much before you have to redesign parts, which I don't think that's what Aoshima intends to do.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

If this means improvements that is good news.

The vf-1 MPC were not loved by rt fans that much.

The alphas were improvements over those in quality.

Now there will be improvements made to these alphas for sale as Legioss.

Overall fans of the mecha should be happy to see slow gradual improvements as they now have more options.

Definitely eager to see what buyers have to say about it. Maybe they could release two editions?: diecast versions and good durable plastic versions. Sort of like the binaltech vs the kissplay transformers.

I'm not going to hold high expectations though. So are these modded clones going to be Limited edition or just toys they can milk the fan forever?

[Lonely Soldier Boy]

For my money, I'm thinking Aoshima has an option on the molds themselves (or derivatives thereof). It sounds kind of silly to suggest that they would want to modify already existent N.O.S. parts.

Agreed. The more I think of it the more silly it sounds to buy thousands of Alphas, fix them, repack them and sell them. Don't forget that besides the QC issues common to all units, the Alphas are like a box of chocolates: You never know if there will be missing pieces, broken parts or paint chipping. Too much to fix for a whole line of toys.

As for the Beta/Tread, I still don't buy Toynami's linkeage with the Alpha, it's pretty obvious the Beta link system was an afterthought, so I hope that Aoshima can help them there too.

[Lynx7725]

the Alphas are like a box of chocolates: You never know if there will be missing pieces, broken parts or paint chipping.

Uh, dude, I'm not sure what kind of chocolates you are eating, but having paint chip off your chocolates is a baaaad sign.

As for the Beta/Tread, I still don't buy Toynami's linkeage with the Alpha, it's pretty obvious the Beta link system was an afterthought, so I hope that Aoshima can help them there too.

I'm not too sure whether Aoshima intends to. This smells of "quick profit" more than "planned line", and we know designing a Tread toy has almost have to be from ground up -- there are just too few previous incarnations for progressive engineering to build from. Granted, Nami Toi does have a prototype, but I'm not sure how much technology sharing exists between the two.

[Hiriyu]

Actually, I'm not sure if it's a cooperative effort. I'm not sure how much I should read into the blog entry, but the idea that it's OEM is a big odd point.

Very good point. I know from personal business experience that a lot of the Chinese contractor fabs play pretty fast and loose with their tools, so the scenario you mention is highly plausible. I still tend toward the notion that their must be some sort of agreement in place, however.

[Lynx7725]

Very good point. I know from personal business experience that a lot of the Chinese contractor fabs play pretty fast and loose with their tools, so the scenario you mention is highly plausible. I still tend toward the notion that their must be some sort of agreement in place, however.

I would think some agreement is in place too, but we simply don't know anything, and I would have thought some news would have leaked from Nami Toi's side. Hooking up with Aoshima is a big deal for a toy company, and getting your design selected for distribution by a well-known company is something to be actually proud of... right?

On the other hand, the "fast-and-loose" idea has some interesting implications that's fodder for speculation. If Aoshima actually didn't go with Nami Toi, and literally went behind their backs to the Chinese factory (or vice versa), that implies Aoshima thinks they can get away with it. It's a direct challenge to Nami Toi's -- and thus indirectly, to HG's -- monopoly on MOSPEDA. If Nami Toi or HG doesn't rise to the challenge, then it becomes a precedent and would lay the groundwork for a lot more challenges in the future. Whether Nami Toi or HG has the financial capabilities or the interest to contest is not known at this time, of course.

Even if Aoshima doesn't get away with it, it still sets Nami Toi up as someone you can bootleg off. That's really not a good thing from the company's perspective, and they might end up fencing off more bootleggers in the future. (On a side note, this is just speculation, and I'm not gloating about it, just stating my view. I don't like the products but there's no real reason to actually hate the company that much.)

[Hiriyu]

I would think some agreement is in place too, but we simply don't know anything, and I would have thought some news would have leaked from Nami Toi's side.

But... Why would we have heard anything from Nami Toi? They are concerned with the 'outside of Japan' rights, correct? Why give a licensee in a foreign market any publicity?

Otherwise, I agree completely - it will be interesting to see what develops. I expect it will be somewhat less er, dramatic than we would all like, but interesting anyway

[jenius]

Here's another something to consider. I remember hearing before the MPC Alpha was released that Toynami had purchased the molds of the Imai variable 1/12 Ride Armor and the variable 1/48 Legioss. Now, if Toynami had truly purchased those molds you would have to wonder how Aoshima later then re-released both of those models. It would seem to me that Toynami and Aoshima must already have an existing business relationship. Also, Tatsunoko wouldn't have much to gain from playing a licensing game with HG so I can't see anything too surreptitious happening here. I still can't imagine a company busting existing toys and remaking them better... especially the Alphas... but I have a feeling whatever deal has been inked here is mutually beneficial to Nami Toi and Aoshima.

[kensei]

If Aoshima is reworking the Nami Toys without their permission, is safe to assume we won't be seeing any Betas for them. If there's an agreement between them, then a Beta being made for both toys is a sure thing.

Perhaps the MPC is being remade to accomodate for a Beta? To solve the enigma of how the Alpha is going to attach to it in robot mode?

[warrhead]

What I find strange is that these are being advertised at 1/48 scale which should make them larger than the MPC's which were 1/55 and were tiny. Is this a misnomer? If so, on who's part?

[Phyrox]

What I find strange is that these are being advertised at 1/48 scale which should make them larger than the MPC's which were 1/55 and were tiny. Is this a misnomer? If so, on who's part?

The Toynami Alphas aren't really 1/55. If you measure them I think I remember they were somewhere inbetween 1/48 and 1/55. So I guess you could call them either one.

[pfunk]

the plot thickens

[Black Valkyrie]

Lets hope the plastic QC gets better, like if it`s actually a Jap toys.

[RDClip]

The Toynami Alphas aren't really 1/55. If you measure them I think I remember they were somewhere inbetween 1/48 and 1/55. So I guess you could call them either one.

I dunno

The alpha pilots and the VF-1 pilots are the exact same size. But the alpha itself is tiny compared to a MPC VF-1.

[Lonely Soldier Boy]

I hope there will be no die cast this time but good old PVC all over, just like the 1/48's.

[JsARCLIGHT]

I'd just be happy with something approaching "quality control" on the old toy. Decent plastics, decent paint and different stickers would make this toy "decent" all around rather than the floppy, breaky, oversprayed pile that they are.

[jenius]

I dunno

The alpha pilots and the VF-1 pilots are the exact same size. But the alpha itself is tiny compared to a MPC VF-1.

The Alpha is definitely somewhere between 1/48 and 1/55 scale. They may have adjusted the pilot itself to be closer to 1/55 but I doubt it. The MPC Alpha is exactly the same height as the 1/48 Imai kit. The fact that the Imai kit is a bit smaller than a true 1/48 allows Nami Toi to label it a 1/55. You can bust out your tape measure to prove it.

[RDClip]

The Alpha is definitely somewhere between 1/48 and 1/55 scale. They may have adjusted the pilot itself to be closer to 1/55 but I doubt it. The MPC Alpha is exactly the same height as the 1/48 Imai kit. The fact that the Imai kit is a bit smaller than a true 1/48 allows Nami Toi to label it a 1/55. You can bust out your tape measure to prove it.

You're probably right.

It's just the MPC looks really small and that 1/55 pilot barey fits in that cockpit, i've always thought that imai and toynami were jerking us around with the scale. (but, i have no idea what a full scale Legioss would measure, just that...it's so damn small )

[Phyrox]

You're probably right.

It's just the MPC looks really small and that 1/55 pilot barey fits in that cockpit, i've always thought that imai and toynami were jerking us around with the scale. (but, i have no idea what a full scale Legioss would measure, just that...it's so damn small )

You know 1/48 is only around 14% larger than 1/55. The truth is the Alpha is just a small mecha.

[Lonely Soldier Boy]

Exactly. And that's why I like it so much.

[kensei]

You know 1/48 is only around 14% larger than 1/55. The truth is the Alpha is just a small mecha.

And in contrast, the Beta is fricken huge. So if you had a big sized alpha in the first place.........

[jenius]

Let's not get too carried away, I think the Beta would stand the same size as a VF-1 toy. It's HUGE in comparison to the Alpha, and it has a significant amount of girth, but it's not just HUGE in general. I imagine the Koenig is more imposing.

[Lynx7725]

Let's not get too carried away, I think the Beta would stand the same size as a VF-1 toy. It's HUGE in comparison to the Alpha, and it has a significant amount of girth, but it's not just HUGE in general. I imagine the Koenig is more imposing.

Err, I'm not sure.

And..

Bigger image

I think at least 1/48 VF-1 size. Maybe a bit bigger and since it's chest-heavy, would be more imposing?

(I'm leeching these guys' bandwidth a bit for now, I think I'll come back in the morning to host these on my photo site.. Meanwhile, don't shoot me.)

Edited April 19, 2007 by Lynx7725

[jenius]

Whenever you're not sure... just do the math

Beta stands: 13.7 Meters

VF-1 stands: 12.7 Meters

Beta length fighter: 9.7 Meters

VF-1 length fighter: 14.2 Meters

Edited April 19, 2007 by jenius

[Lonely Soldier Boy]

Yeah, the Beta is just bulkier, but for the pic it's not taller than the 1/48. Actually I don't see why all the fuss about a Beta/Tread toy's size. The upcoming SV-51 is way bigger.

[recon]

Some colors pics of the 1/48 alpha fighters from aoshima. From the description, it seems that Aoshima announced that they will be selling Toynami's Masterpiece Collection 「Alpha Fighters〠re-branded as 「1:48 Shin Seiki Gokin Legioss〠toys in Japan. The blue Eta, red Zeta, and green Iota will hit Japanese shelves in late July at a retail price of 10,290 yen each.

Im still holding out for the alpha/beta set from CMS even though its more EX

Some comparison pics btw the former toynami ver and the ver by aoshima. Seems no diff, but can expect lots of diecast coming from that of Aoshima *paint chip* ouch!

http://www.toysdaily.com/discuz/viewthread...;extra=page%3D1

Edited April 21, 2007 by recon

[Lynx7725]

Looks purely decal differences? I pass.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

CMs will kick its butt.

Anyone going to get one and review it?

[kensei]

I wouldn't take the risk.....

Like when the first time i tried French Snails, I let the "experts" take the first shot before I have one.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Yeah but what if it has improvements? You never know if you don't try right?

[kensei]

Like I said, step back and let others have a go first.