Aoshima Variable 1/48 Legioss for 2007

[Retracting Head Ter Ter]

Tatsunoko sold HG the international rights to Mospeada while Tatsunoko kept the domestic (Japan being Tatsunoko's domiciliary country) rights for themselves.

I thought that for Macross, HG had only the rights outside-of-Japan but for Mospeada, they had the rights both outside and inside. Read it from this forum long ago.

[jenius]

Yeah Retracting, I had heard the same thing, but was corrected a while back. The confusion lies from Tatsunoko having a happy relationship with HG and being willing to collaborate on potential business deals unlike the Macross property where BigWest is very unhappy and makes it quite clear that HG's reach only goes so far no matter how well they get along with Tatsunoko.

[Chet]

A 1/48 Aoshima will be exactly the same size as a Toynami MPC if Aoshima borrows from the Imai tradition. Does the Toynami MPC look great next to your 1/48 Yamatos? If it were 1/35 scale it'd be just a tiny bit shorter than your 1/48... as it isi it will be MUCH smaller.

I don't mind it being smaller, as long as scale is reasonably accurate. Gives it a more convincing sense of realism.

[Retracting Head Ter Ter]

Yeah Retracting, I had heard the same thing, but was corrected a while back. The confusion lies from Tatsunoko having a happy relationship with HG and being willing to collaborate on potential business deals unlike the Macross property where BigWest is very unhappy and makes it quite clear that HG's reach only goes so far no matter how well they get along with Tatsunoko.

Cool. so HG is not getting any royalties when I buy my CM Tread.

[jenius]

Cool. so HG is not getting any royalties when I buy my CM Tread.

Well, not until Tatsunoko, CMs, and HG strike a deal to sell the repackage bundle in Robotech form If you want to get real convoluted you can also say that you're putting money into Tatsunoko's hands who will then put money in HG's hands to produce more Mospeada-esque videos for potential Japanese releasing under the Mospeada name. Yes, I'm still in conspiracy mode

[Roger]

I'd say one possible factor that contributes to this spate of MOSPEADA merchandise is watching what Yamato has demonstrated: a steady flow of Macross merchandise, that, for all of the flaws, fans keep buying those Valkyries, again and again and again. Why not try selling the same market some more triple-changing jets?

Also, like someone explained above, if the company cuts a deal with Harmony Gold, then they have the rights to sell their product to the rest of the world, not just Japan.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

So whose version do you think is going to be the best?

I find it odd they are doing it. Such an old series, you would think people forgot about it. But maybe collectors over there are dying for a modern transforming toy of the mecha just because its rare or something? (like the vf-1 was when robotech came out in the 80s in the US)

HG could benefit from all of it just by repackaging the thing for the RT.com crowd and feed the massive hunger for a safely transformable toy of the alpha fighter. Since all futuristic valks in the robotech world will be the alpha and betas any upcoming toys for SC will look the same. They could milk it for any future show that uses the alpha as the main transforming vehicle and even do what yamato does and release non-canon schemes to milk those collector types who buy everything. Heck if they want to, just create a new head like the VF-1 with the 3 head lasers for that robotech game. heheh

Edited April 4, 2007 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[oreillyrel]

Count me in the camp wondering "why" all this Mospeada all of a sudden... I mean, this feels like the '80s again when every hollywood studio put out an underwater movie (The Abyss, Deep Star Six, Leviathan, etc...) out of nowhere. I mean, yes I am thrilled that this old obscure property is getting some treatment outside of Toynami but it just strikes me as strange that it is getting so much focus NOW.

Still with the "tidal wave" of Japanese fan interest we've had for Mospeada in the past 25 years I'm shocked so much is being done by so many for what pretty much amounts to a little known anniversary for a little followed show. It just strikes me as strange that even for a "25th Anniversary" that so many different companies are moving on Mospeada products. CM's, Beagle, Aoshima... all making transforming toys, not just cheapie plastic figurines or claw game prizes.

I know it's easy for those of us who are fans of the show to say "well DUH the show is awesome and it's totally popular in Japan" but IMHO that sort of doesn't ring true. I mean, one short show with it's last showing being a single episode OAV spinoff that came out 21 years ago is not exactly fresh in the minds of Japanese fandom. About the only thing that kept the show alive this long was it's inclusion in Robotech. I'm not trying to get into a Mospeada fandom debate (even though it might seem that I am), I'm just trying to figure out where this big push is coming from...

Okay, we have an old obscure 1983 real robot property that didn't even last one year, with a spinoff that was ignored by everyone except the diehard fans. There was nothing besides model kits and videos for over twenty years, and then suddenly we have toys (not models, but prebuilt figures) from no less than three different companies, including CM's. Why? Well, obviously, it must be that American remake of...

Wait. American remake of Round Vernian Vifam? There was no American remake of Vifam. And yet, look at all the recent toys for this obscure 1983 real robot property:

http://www.hlj.com/scripts/hljlist.cgi?x=0...is=-2&Code=

Don't let your myopia of anything unrelated to Robotech in Japan fool you. It's not just Mospeada. Mospeada is only getting the same old treatment that several other obscure 1980s robot shows are getting in the last five years. More than a dozen 1980s robot shows have finally gotten toys after about two decades of just model reissues (if that). Look at 1983's Orguss. Look at 1984's Galient. Look at 1985's Layzner. Look at 1987's Bubble Gum Crisis. Look at 1985's Megazone 23. (Suuure, it must be that Robotech movie that's getting Japanese Megazone fans all hot and bothered about toys...) Look at friggin' Gold Lightan.

http://www.hlj.com/scripts/hljlist.cgi?x=0...is=-2&Code=

http://www.hlj.com/scripts/hljlist.cgi?x=0...is=-2&Code=

http://www.hlj.com/scripts/hljlist.cgi?x=0...is=-2&Code=

http://www.hlj.com/scripts/hljlist.cgi?x=0...is=-2&Code=

http://www.hlj.com/hljlist2/?range=descrip...p;GenreCode=All

http://www.hlj.com/hljlist2/?range=descrip...p;GenreCode=All

[state the Obvious] I wonder if this has anything to do with Shadow Chronicles? [/state the Obvious]

As SaveRobotech pointed out, the director of Beagle--the company making the Japanese 1/12 Mospeada toys--admitted his company wasn't even aware of Robotech: The Shadow Chronicles. The company is just made of Mospeada fans, who know that there is small but loyal following for Mospeada in Japan, just like there are for dozens of other 1980s robot shows.

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?...st&p=478161

as much as I'd like to believe "25th Anniversary", my brain is telling me more that Shadow Chronicles has possible renewed interest in the designs from the show. The 25th Anniversary seems like a coincidence... either that or Shadow Chronicles hitting right at the anniversary.

Remember, Harmony Gold didn't plan on releasing the Shadow Chronicles in 2007, one year before Mospeada's 25th anniversary. It was just that HG slipped its deadline of 2005 (Robotech's 20th anniversary) by two years. It's Shadow Chronicles' timing that's accidental.

Edited April 4, 2007 by oreillyrel

[oreillyrel]

I agree, afterall, if this were 25th anniversary fever wouldn't all this merchandise be slated to come out in 2008 to really celebrate it?

Look at Macross. There were toys and models with the official 20th Anniversary logo in 2001, a year before the actual anniversary. Look at Gundam. There were toys and models with the official 20th Anniversary logo almost two years before 1999.

I think Tatsunoko is probably trying to ramp up some renewed interest in Mospeada and [conspiracy] then release Shadow Chronicles in some heavily revamped form as Mospeada II. Then again, perhaps "Mospeada II" will be the big 25th anniversary celebration event... [/conspiracy].

Vifam, Orguss, Galient, Gold Lightan, and more are all getting toys near their 25th anniversary after a two-decade drought, but it's not because of new animation. It's just that poor 1980s kids are now 2000s salarymen with disposable income for toys.

Edited April 4, 2007 by oreillyrel

[oreillyrel]

I'm with you on this one. Aside from reissuing the old model kits, we've never seen anything done to celebrate Mospeada's 10th, 15th, or 20th anniversaries.

There have been LD and DVD releases between those anniversaries.

One theory I have is that perhaps Toynami's MPC Alphas have been selling well enough on Yahoo Japan to spark an interest in making new toys.

Except they haven't been. For the past year (even before the CM's and Aoshima announcements), there have been Toynami MPCs sitting unsold and repeatedly resolicited on Yahoo Japan. The only model that's generating any sustainable interest is the Shadow (because there were no Dark Legioss toys in the 1980s). Even then, neither CM's nor Aoshima has planned Dark Legioss toys.

Or maybe Japan is experiencing an anime "retro" phase, kind of like how America was with Speed Racer in the mid 90's.

That's the real reason. Look at all those other 1980s robot shows that never got an American release and never got any toys for twenty years in Japan, only to get three or four companies selling toys in the last five years. Lots of 1980s kids in Japan are reliving their childhood instead of saving for retirement.

[Save]

oreillyrel thanks for saving me the time and not having to write up all that stuff myself. There you have it the cold hard obvious truth, unless you are one of those RT fans that also think Macross 7 was a rip off of Lancer's Rockers.

[TheLoneWolf]

That's the real reason. Look at all those other 1980s robot shows that never got an American release and never got any toys for twenty years in Japan, only to get three or four companies selling toys in the last five years. Lots of 1980s kids in Japan are reliving their childhood instead of saving for retirement.

That makes sense. But if Japanese twenty-somethings aren't buying the Toynami Alpha is it because they don't know about? Or are they in the mindset that if it's a Toynami/American product that it must be lousy?

[jenius]

oreillyrel's theory sucks, there's not a single conspiracy involved with it. Can you please edit all that so we at least have some sort of bad guy. Saying the Japanese are just doing what we did during our dotcom boom is so... boring.

[JsARCLIGHT]

I think you guys read too much into my position.

I was not saying that Shadow Chronicles spawned all these new Mospeada toys, I was simply saying that the notion that these three companies most likely have a built-in export market to ship to could be a very large reason they are all putting effort into transforming toys. Toys that by all accounts already exist in Japan in the form of imported Toynami toys, which are not selling well if at all. Looking at the links provided by oreillyrel leads me to believe that a good deal of the "retro" boom is mostly in cheap model kit reissues (which Aoshima already did for Mospeada) and in less expensive action figure toys. Transforming toys represent quite an investment in design, tooling and construction... plus they represent quite a steep price point at the retail level for the consumer. I'm sure they feel the JDM can support their efforts but a good part of my mind believes they already have inked deals with Tatsunoko cum HG to export the toys, thus increasing their sales and justifying all the effort.

Also Mospeada is more than just a Japanese show anymore. It's not in the same ballpark as Gold Lightan or Vifam... it may be that way inside Japan but outside Japan there is more market share and more money to be made. It all just seems like too much effort to me for a localized JDM only market... But we won't know until the items show up and sell. As a Mospeada fan I'm definitely interested either way, I just feel that all this new effort has to be tied into the potential export to the west in some way, shape or form. Otherwise why would they simply just not rest on the laurels of reissued model kits and perhaps some fixed form inexpensive action figures? Why go hog wild with metal transforming toys... especially transforming toys that sort of already exist and are not selling well? And two companies making effectively the same thing to boot? My mind only points to the lucrative international market and it's tie-ins... if by some reason they fail to sell in Japan then they can still sell in the west.

In the end we don't really need to know a reason why, we just need good quality toys to purchase. It's just for those of us who have waited so long for these things we want them to be the best they can be and get the market attention they deserve... it just seems to be "shallow thinking" on these companies behalf if they are only concerned with the JDM with this property, a property that can easily cross the ocean intact and still sell well in a foreign market. Even if the company has "never heard of" the name brand their toys will be selling under.

[jenius]

I wonder if Toynami ever made their Beta if someone would fab up an Aoshima connector mechanism for this Legioss...

LOL, you think that's thinking way too far ahead? I wonder if Toynami's vaporware will be able to connect to this toy that may not even be in the prototype stage

[do not disturb]

it doesn't take a genius to figure out that todays adult fans are paying out the ass for collectibles from their youths. any toy company thats researched yamato's sales/figures(or just on ebay) knows theres a huge market for this stuff and the numbers don't lie.

i wouldn't be a bit surprised if southern cross toys do get made. if anything it'll be the last toyline to be produced when all other options have burned out.

[Phyrox]

i wouldn't be a bit surprised if southern cross toys do get made. if anything it'll be the last toyline to be produced when all other options have burned out.

I, for one, would be surprised if Southern Cross got anything original produced for it. Re-releases of the kits, maybe "Aoshima-fied" action figures created from the old models, but that's it.

I still think this Legioss is a metal version of the kits they are hawking. It makes too much sense. No way they are gonna sculpt new versions, especially given Aoshima's past m.o.

[TheLoneWolf]

I, for one, would be surprised if Southern Cross got anything original produced for it. Re-releases of the kits, maybe "Aoshima-fied" action figures created from the old models, but that's it.

I agree with Phyrox. From what I understand, Southern Cross was a failure in Japan. At least Mospeada and co. was a moderate success with a small, but loyal, fan following. Southern Cross will get the usual Imai reissue, and if it's lucky an HD-DVD and/or Blu-Ray for it's 25th in 2009.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Southern cross has some fugly mecha.

Yeah I think this has to do with a yamato thing. They see the profits and fanbase for macross so it's natural to want to do mospeada. Mospeada mecha being pretty much a clone of the idea from macross and all..

Shadow Chronlicles recent exposure to robotech fans could just be the icing on the cake. The market outside japan must count for something.. If they are smart, HG should import whatever mospeada stuff that gets made from japan and sell it on their site imo. (not just be loyal to the toynami break-a-pieces)

In any case, it's about time mospeada got some love. No more having to pay the high prices on ebay due to nothing being produced.

SaveRobotech: why do you want to save robotech? Why not Save mospeada or Savemacross?

Edited April 4, 2007 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[do not disturb]

let me just state for the record, i strongly dislike southern cross. even if the toys are made i still wouldn't buy them as i just don't care for any of the designs from the show. southern cross is right up there with the level of suck as mac7, actually its worse than mac7....man i can't believe i just wrote that.

[jenius]

Mospeada mecha being pretty much a clone of the idea from macross and all..

With the exception of the Mospeada Ride Armors and the Tread. Um, so can we just say the "three mode variable Legioss is essentially the same idea as the three mode variable Valkyrie?" I think that's a bit more precise.

I'll jump on the "wow, Southern Cross designs are terrible" band wagon. Seriously... ouch. I'll definitely give Mac7 the better mech design award faces et al.... but plot-wise the original Southern Cross (not the atrocious Robotech Masters) had a better story... albeit a dark story that would have worked much better as a movie in my opinion since it wasn't very inviting or intriguing. Still, toys for that show? Not bloody likely... but I could be convinced to buy a Sparta (hover tank) if it came out.

[do not disturb]

... but I could be convinced to buy a Sparta (hover tank) if it came out.

a brick that transforms into a brick like robot, you might as well start collecting gobots.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

I'll jump on the "wow, Southern Cross designs are terrible" band wagon.

Huh? But they ARE terrible. Yuck yuck yuck It's not a bandwagon if you originally didn't even like them as a kid when you first saw them.

I have the same issue with some designs in the gundam and transformer universe (not singling out southern cross) so it 's not like bashing it to feel a sense of belonging to a group of people to feel good. Sometimes things just plain look crap!

Edited April 4, 2007 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[jenius]

a brick that transforms into a brick like robot, you might as well start collecting gobots.

Hey you, it's a brick with a long thin protrusion! I didn't say I'd buy it because I was fond of the design though, I'd just buy it for the novelty. Did you guys ever notice the "destroids" in that show? Wow... bad. I swear the Logan (RT name) was seriously designed with Gobots in mind. They were like "We'll put the shell of a jet on a robot body and just have a body flip out from underneath... it'll be the easiest toy to make ever!" Even when they finally got around to introducing a half decent mech they made it into a space helicopter that's super thin and angular giving it the look of an emaciated Legioss wannabe. For some reason I did like the Bioroid (RT name again) though. Of all the possible Southern Cross toys, I think a bioroid would be highest on my want list.

[Save]

That makes sense. But if Japanese twenty-somethings aren't buying the Toynami Alpha is it because they don't know about? Or are they in the mindset that if it's a Toynami/American product that it must be lousy?

Put it this way, 99% of toy or hobby shops don't have much display space. Toynami MPC toys may have nice bookend design but a toy shop would have to display the item with the book cover flap open since there is nothing on the outside of the book indicating that a Legioss (Alpha) is in the box. All you can see is character art of the pilots done Yune style which most Japanese are not impressed with. Then there is the solid white box that the MPC comes in so if a shop wants to display a MPC look how much space they would need just to get it off the shelf. They just don't have the space, so how are collectors in Japan going to buy something they can't see or read since the box says Scott, Alpha, and Robotech in English.

Then if they do buy one they quickly find out the guality is lousy, and they paid a small fortune for it. Then the exact same toy gets resold to a shop like liberty for about $50.00 used and some Macross World member benefits in the end.

Edited April 5, 2007 by SaveRobotech

[lord_breetai]

Hey you, it's a brick with a long thin protrusion! I didn't say I'd buy it because I was fond of the design though, I'd just buy it for the novelty. Did you guys ever notice the "destroids" in that show? Wow... bad. I swear the Logan (RT name) was seriously designed with Gobots in mind. They were like "We'll put the shell of a jet on a robot body and just have a body flip out from underneath... it'll be the easiest toy to make ever!" Even when they finally got around to introducing a half decent mech they made it into a space helicopter that's super thin and angular giving it the look of an emaciated Legioss wannabe. For some reason I did like the Bioroid (RT name again) though. Of all the possible Southern Cross toys, I think a bioroid would be highest on my want list.

I dunno I like the Sparta/Hovertank and the Bioroid, and the hovercycle of course.

I think Southren Cross did have some neat designs especially in the different suits of armour. I'd buy a PVC model of Jennane/Dana.

honestly out of MOSPEADA, I'd rather see some Inbit mecha rather then more MOSPEADAs and LEGIOSS's.

Like a decent Grab would be nice or the Enforcer guys (whatever they were called in MOSPEADA, I just watched the show and I don't think they called them by name).

[Retracting Head Ter Ter]

Like a decent Grab would be nice or the Enforcer guys (whatever they were called in MOSPEADA, I just watched the show and I don't think they called them by name).

Enforcer = GAMO.

eidt: Wait. Enforcers are the big guys with the big honking converging cannons right? If you are referring to the smaller power armour suits I think they are called 'Protectors'.

Edited April 5, 2007 by Retracting Head Ter Ter

[ShadowerV2]

Yeah I would get a nice transforming toy of the Hover Tank is they ever made a good one.

[EXO]

I'd get a hovertank too... it's one of those toys I wouldnt mind if they released a small version. But Mospeada definitely deserves a bigger scale than what all these companies are releasing.

With the news of all these Mospeada toys being releases, I guess I'll wait to see which is the best or even if any are worth it.

[Lonely Soldier Boy]

I want Revoltech Bioroids complete with hover platforms and all the variants

[lord_breetai]

Enforcer = GAMO.

eidt: Wait. Enforcers are the big guys with the big honking converging cannons right? If you are referring to the smaller power armour suits I think they are called 'Protectors'.

Nope Invid Inforcers ae the small power armour dudes... I liked them in Sentinels when they had those sled things (was that original or unused MOSPEADA?)

[jenius]

Actually the Enforcers according to RT.com are the big blue guys with heat rays instead of plasma disks. I believe (might be mistaken) the old RT RPGs though used to refer to what is known at RT.com as the Invid Soldier (and what you're referring to Breetai) as Enforcers. So there's the confusion for you.

[lord_breetai]

Actually the Enforcers according to RT.com are the big blue guys with heat rays instead of plasma disks. I believe (might be mistaken) the old RT RPGs though used to refer to what is known at RT.com as the Invid Soldier (and what you're referring to Breetai) as Enforcers. So there's the confusion for you.

Ah shows you, I've never watched more then a couple eps of New Gen. I've only seen it as MOSPEADA

I think the Regent called one of them "Enforcer" in Sentinels...

And yeah I got the name from the old rpgs.

[Shaggydog]

uh... these are already up for preorder at hlj!

I wonder if maybe Aoshima is just repackaging the MPC Toynami Alphas here.. they have done that with some 'Product Enterprises' Gerry Anderson stuff. Were the MPC Alphas ever 'officially' released in Japan, or just imported by retailers?

[Ghadrack]

Yick! That's a scary thought. Bite your tongue!