Aoshima Variable 1/48 Legioss for 2007

[eriku]

I remember some reports of the biceps being assembled backwards on the Toynamis. Maybe that's your case. If not you can still do as most people did and tear the biceps apart with an exacto knife. Apparently Toynami used a cheap a$$ glue to put the whole thing together so it snaps off very easily, and judging from the reports, I doubt the glue used on the Aoshimas is any better. It's not like you can screw it up, because your average superglue should be harder than the s#it they used anyway.

That could be. It would explain why one side of the bicep doesn't pull out all the way and the other side doesn't rotate. I'll see if I can get in there somehow. I just wish they had used screws like they did on the rest of the toy.

[jenius]

One of my SCott MPC Alphas has no glue applied to the upper shoulder area at all! Either that or the glue simply lost its tackiness on its own. I've had that shoulder fall apart because of this once or twice and it wasn't bad to put back together. You may want to give it a try..

[Godzilla]

How could Aoshima let this happen? How in the world did they turn a blind eye and let this slip by them. They should have had their own QC on hand for it. IMHO, the Aoshimas are worse than the toynamis from what I just thumbed thru. Good lord. Still I am not too keen on the $300 price tag on a CM's Legioss and Tread. Well, I am pretty sure the Beta is dead. Aoshima needs to get it rep back and it is to run as far aay as possible from Toynami for starters.

[jenius]

On the RT boards it has been stated that Aoshima screwed up on the QC not Toynami and that the Beta is still on. Not sure how true it is but the person posted there (I think it's a mod) that they spoke with Toynami and that due to the QC debacle on the Aoshima product it has been decided that Toynami will completely handle production of the Beta and simply deliver finished products to Aoshima. That seems to imply that's not what happened with these Legioss toys but who knows how true any of it is.

[Lonely Soldier Boy]

I call it bull$#!+.

RT.com has always been Toynami's zealot. It's not surprising they put the blame on Aoshima. I'd like to see George Sohn stating publicly that the Legioss flop was all Aoshima's fault.

I think it's pretty evident that Toynami had it's hands full with the Aoshima deal and they decided to just cut corners wherever possible. If the production was in charge of Aoshima, how come Toynami has delayed all it's upcoming products then? All they'd had to do is hand the molds over to Aoshima and let them do all the hard work. We have seen before how Toynami is unable to handle more than two lines at a time.

Not that Aoshima is blameless, mind you, but they do have a better reputation than Toynami. I wonder how they plan to recover it, by the way

Edited January 9, 2008 by Lonely Soldier Boy

[Vermillion21]

On the RT boards ...

I'm impressed you still read those forums jenius. I abandoned them LONG ago ... too many restrictions and BS when it came to any negative comments about Crapnami's products ....

RT.com has always been Toynami's zealot.

Quoted for truth ....

[EXO]

Oh yeah... Out of all the quality stuff Aoshima does (a japanese company with standards) they decided to screw up the Alphas... from Toynami... haha. I remember when Tommy Yune sat next to me at SDCC and complained about the Yamato products being "too fragile" and how the upcoming Alphas were gonna be toys! with diecast... lol.

You really have to stop being such the Toynami/HG bellringer here, Jenius.... I mean first you believe this

http://macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?s=&a...st&p=502784

Lynx, you seem a bit behind the times. A few misconceptions that have already been cleared up:

1) Aoshima isn't really "producing" anything, Toynami is supplying Aoshima with these toys.

2) The CMs corp Legioss/Tread has been delayed until some time next year

3) The Toynami Beta is due out for a release this year, it will be available in paint schemes that match the original MPCs and the Aoshima versions.

now you're bringing their lame finger pointing here... so what if he's a mod. Does he work for Toynami?

Of course I'm just being biased and trying to jump on the anti HG/Toynami bandwagon so I can look cool to eveyone here.

[jenius]

You really have to stop being such the Toynami/HG bellringer here, Jenius.... I mean first you believe this

I just report what I read... maybe you should read closer?

Not sure how true it is

who knows how true any of it is

<--- Mospeada bellringer

I'm impressed you still read those forums jenius. I abandoned them LONG ago ... too many restrictions and BS when it came to any negative comments about Crapnami's products ....

I check in occasionally as the people there are the only ones I know of who have any communication with Toynami and I try to keep up-to-date on the Toynami rumors for more Mospeada products. I hardly ever join in on conversations. I've also lambasted Toynami products there so I think you were allowed to say whatever you wanted as long as you didn't swear... which isn't always easy when discussing Toynami products.

Edited January 10, 2008 by jenius

[Lonely Soldier Boy]

Using RT.com to cast the stone against Aoshima is too low, even for Toynami. With this kind of business practices it's a wonder they still exist.

Edit: Don't be so hard on Jenius guys. After all he's taking the time to let us know what's going on over at RT.com. It's a dirty job but someone has to do it. Thanks Jenius

Edited January 10, 2008 by Lonely Soldier Boy

[Alpha OTS]

Be very VERY careful with that bicep extension and swivel. I remember reading that this was something that would snap clean off if you applied too much pressure.

Really dissappointed by this, but not too surprised. Although still mystified at the horrible half-assed paint job on the cockpit. My toynami's didn't have that issue, but I did have some paint chips(didn't we all?). Nothing as bad as what you're showing in your pics though. Why does the hand look like it belongs to a zombie? Flesh decomposition and all. And what's with that head? It looks like it's about to fall apart! I was entertaining picking one of these Blue Scott's up because it's the color I always wanted, and the ebay prices are a bit too much, but with this......no. I'm not going to take the chance. Going to have to continue to make do with the Toynami Lancer I have that I was mostly lucky with QC wise.

[EXO]

I just find it funny that first jenius says that Lynx is "behind the times" because of said "report" about misconceptions. Meaning we should take my quote to be facts right? If your setting a misconception straight then it's followed up by facts... I'm to assume.

Then the new "report" is that Aoshima might be responsible for the screw up? Be it taken as fact or not it's still a bit propagandaish saying that this info might be from a mod or someone that has communication to Toynami. It's just hilarious that after all the lame results that Toynami achieves, we're still suppose to eat this type of reporting... Am I suppose to feel safe that Toynami will completely handle the production of the Betas and hand it to those inept Aoshima nimwits?

Does anyone here feel any better now that we're being told this?

I'm so glad we have a line between here and RT.com... because we're all too dumb to go there ourselves. It reminds me of an old web adage... DO NOT WANT!

[Hiriyu]

eriku, thanks for posting your pics. Sucks that the thing is so shabby. I'm assuming that my offer to post some comparison shots is no longer needed?

[Vermillion21]

Edit: Don't be so hard on Jenius guys. After all he's taking the time to let us know what's going on over at RT.com. It's a dirty job but someone has to do it. Thanks Jenius

For the record, my intent was NOT to be harsh on Jenius at all. I do appreciate his comments, helpful knowledge on various topics, and doing the "dirty work" of reading the RT.com forums.

My comment was that I can't believe he has the patience to stomach the propaganda-filled, Crapnami-biased, totalitarian RT.com site. I rarely (if ever) visit that site anymore. But the ironic thing is, that's the first fandom site where I initially started to visit ... before discovering MW. Thankfully.

[jenius]

I don't really feel like anyone is being hard on me. Here you guys go, I found the comment from "Tommy" over at RT.com

According to George Sohn of Toynami, the recent posts have only covered part of the story. The Mospeada Tread will indeed not be manufactured at Aoshima's factory as the recent Mospeada Legioss units were. Toynami will instead manufacture the Masterpiece Beta Fighter at their own factory where they will have a better handle on QC. George Sohn and Toynami have a good relationship with Aoshima and are looking into having part of this production run of Beta Fighters sold back in Japan as the Tread.

Does the Legioss say "Toynami" on a stamp on it anywhere or does it say "Aoshima"? Also, by the information that was available at the time, what I told Lynx was the most up-to-date information available. It's hardly like I sought out to misinform him. Sorry I didn't put a disclaimer that the information was only based on hearsay, website postings on CollectionDX (IIRC), and the Release Dates Toynami was showing on their convention circuit (which we should all know are wild optimism just short of outright lies at all times).

EDIT - to put it into context, the "recent posts" Tommy is referring to was all the speculation was that the Tread/Beta had been cancelled due to the mess that is the Aoshima Legioss.

Edited January 10, 2008 by jenius

[eriku]

Does the Legioss say "Toynami" on a stamp on it anywhere or does it say "Aoshima"?

It has a stamp that says "2004 HG TOYNAMI". I didn't see "Aoshima" anywhere on the toy. The box has a whole side with the Harmony Gold and Toynami logos and warnings printed in English. I have no way of knowing who messed this up so bad, I can only speculate, and speculation points out that Aoshima has a fairly spotless track record whereas Toynami has had problems with nearly every single toy they've released. Even though I don't know weather or not Aoshima dropped the ball on this, I don't think it matters because Toynami's product was so flawed to begin with. Aoshima should sever all ties with Toynami because the Legioss is an embarrassment. It's truly shameful that a company that is so highly regarded for their quality has to be associated with a toy that, in my opinion, is of worse quality than a Hong Kong knock-off.

[jenius]

If it says Toynami on it then it seems really hard for me to believe that Aoshima did friggin' anything to produce it. I still hope the Beta gets made, I bought enough Toynami MPCs to have one really good one of each and I'd love to have one really good Beta to go with each of them. Of course, if the Aoshima offering is any indication where QC is heading these days then these companies can both go directly to hell and not pass go. Well, I'll expect the worst but hope for the best.

[EXO]

Aoshima makes good on their Aliens toys... I'm pretty happy with them and I'm shocked that they would get into bed with Toynami. I wouldn't put one penny into a Beta, I think by now I've learned my lesson. If not then I'm the idiot.

[eugimon]

yup, I only bought my MPC alpha because I used to work for puzzle zoo and got it at a discount... no way I'm paying retail for the Beta. Hell, I don't even know where my alpha is after the move.. it was such a POS. If Mcdonalds made it, they would have called it the McCrap with Cheese.

[eriku]

Of out sheer curiosity on what they have to say, I decided to email Toynami about the problems on my Legioss and ask them if there's any way I could get a replacement Alpha or just an arm from them. I'm sure they'll say something along the lines of, "It's an Aoshima product so we can't do anything about it", but I thought it was worth a shot.

[Roger]

Just adding something that doesn't seem to be addressed in any of these posts...

Toynami's factory is not owned by Toynami. Aoshima's factory is not owned by Aoshima. There is no vertical integration at the low level that companies like this operate. They use independent factories in China that are hired on a project by project basis to produce items at a certain quality level by a certain date.

And it's sad, but these factories will always try to screw their customers in some way. Witness the current chaos in the toy industry to see what I mean.

It doesn't excuse the quality (or lack thereof) that we experience with our toys, but it should explain it.

[eriku]

Just adding something that doesn't seem to be addressed in any of these posts...

Toynami's factory is not owned by Toynami. Aoshima's factory is not owned by Aoshima. There is no vertical integration at the low level that companies like this operate. They use independent factories in China that are hired on a project by project basis to produce items at a certain quality level by a certain date.

And it's sad, but these factories will always try to screw their customers in some way. Witness the current chaos in the toy industry to see what I mean.

It doesn't excuse the quality (or lack thereof) that we experience with our toys, but it should explain it.

That's an excellent point, Roger, and something I always forget. Do you know which toy companies do own their own factories? I thought Takara and Bandai did but I could be mistaken.

[eriku]

I let BBTS know about the problems with this thing and they said they have already recieved several returns/exchanges. They said they can give me a full refund, exchange it, or I can keep it and they'll give me a $20 credit. I'm tempted to exchange, but I'm almost certain to get another stinker that may be even worse. I'm also tempted to take the refund and maybe just try to find a good MPC Alpha. If I keep it I don't think I would feel right taking the $20 credit since this is no fault of BBTS's.

What would you guys do?

[do not disturb]

I let BBTS know about the problems with this thing and they said they have already recieved several returns/exchanges. They said they can give me a full refund, exchange it, or I can keep it and they'll give me a $20 credit. I'm tempted to exchange, but I'm almost certain to get another stinker that may be even worse. I'm also tempted to take the refund and maybe just try to find a good MPC Alpha. If I keep it I don't think I would feel right taking the $20 credit since this is no fault of BBTS's.

What would you guys do?

i like joel but i'd ask for the return.

the nice guy thing you can do is, instead of asking for your money back, just tell him you'll take it as a store credit and use it some time down the road, at least that way money isn't coming out of his pocket. i'm sure he'd appreciate it and probably more inclined to help you out when you really down and out.

Edited January 10, 2008 by do not disturb

[eriku]

i like joel but i'd ask for the return.

the nice guy thing you can do is, instead of asking for your money back, just tell him you'll take it as a store credit and use it some time down the road, at least that way money isn't coming out of his pocket. i'm sure he'd appreciate it and probably more inclined to help you out when you really down and out.

That's a good idea, lord knows there's plenty at BBTS to spend the money on. I also thought about asking them if I could exchange it and then if the second one is still cruddy, return that for store credit. It's just that the chances of getting a good one seem so slim that it would probably be an excercise in futility.

[do not disturb]

That's a good idea, lord knows there's plenty at BBTS to spend the money on. I also thought about asking them if I could exchange it and then if the second one is still cruddy, return that for store credit. It's just that the chances of getting a good one seem so slim that it would probably be an excercise in futility.

yeah but doing exchanges will cost both of you guys time and money and honestly, there is no "good one" when it comes to this toy design. the only way you'd get a good one is to lower your standards of what is acceptable. i own all 4 toynami alphas and theres not one of them that i even consider "decent", let alone acceptable.

[Roger]

That's an excellent point, Roger, and something I always forget. Do you know which toy companies do own their own factories? I thought Takara and Bandai did but I could be mistaken.

Takara and Bandai might own a few of their factories, but not all. They also contract out other Japanese companies like Marusan and Marukoshi from time to time to produce certain items.

[eriku]

yeah but doing exchanges will cost both of you guys time and money and honestly, there is no "good one" when it comes to this toy design. the only way you'd get a good one is to lower your standards of what is acceptable. i own all 4 toynami alphas and theres not one of them that i even consider "decent", let alone acceptable.

Heh, yeah "good one" is relative to standards. My idea of a 'good' Toynami Alpha is one with nothing broken and all of the parts moving like they're supposed to. Even with working parts it doesn't seem like a 'play with me' toy. The best thing is has going for it is that it fills the Mospeada hole in my collection.

[jenius]

Heh, yeah "good one" is relative to standards. My idea of a 'good' Toynami Alpha is one with nothing broken and all of the parts moving like they're supposed to. Even with working parts it doesn't seem like a 'play with me' toy. The best thing is has going for it is that it fills the Mospeada hole in my collection.

You may be best waiting for a used Alpha to come up on the boards. Sometimes it's better to let someone else take the initial risk. I have plenty of decent Alphas with a few so-so ones (but I sent a bunch back to Toynami).

[Vermillion21]

I also thought about asking them if I could exchange it and then if the second one is still cruddy, return that for store credit. It's just that the chances of getting a good one seem so slim that it would probably be an excercise in futility.

That's the option I'd try mate .... best of luck.

[gilermo]

My blue version of this Alpha just arrived and oh my have i cried

The color blue was much darker than the us release the plastic looked much cheaper.

The overall quality was just plain crappy

I do not dare transform it.

my green and red alpha have their hands broken off (just like that).

so they are all displayed in fighter mode out off share poorness

Toynami=crap, if their alpha is as poor as this, than how are they going to make a decent cyclone answer=not!

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

Is it true that the Shadow Alpha MPC is the most durable of all the Alpha MPC's?

[jenius]

The Shadow has hands that don't break (or at least, not nearly as easily) and it doesn't grip the gun so there's even less pressure on the claws. Otherwise it's the same toy in a different shade.

[Vermillion21]

Toynami=crap, if their alpha is as poor as this, than how are they going to make a decent cyclone answer=not!

That's why I call them 'Crapnami' ....

[eriku]

My blue version of this Alpha just arrived and oh my have i cried

The color blue was much darker than the us release the plastic looked much cheaper.

The overall quality was just plain crappy

I do not dare transform it.

my green and red alpha have their hands broken off (just like that).

so they are all displayed in fighter mode out off share poorness

Toynami=crap, if their alpha is as poor as this, than how are they going to make a decent cyclone answer=not!

Sorry to hear that, but also not surprised. Have you transformed it yet, or are you considering returning it? I returned mine to BBTS for store credit. If they ever put the CMS Legioss/Beta up for preorder I might just use my credit towards that set.

[gilermo]

Sorry to hear that, but also not surprised. Have you transformed it yet, or are you considering returning it? I returned mine to BBTS for store credit. If they ever put the CMS Legioss/Beta up for preorder I might just use my credit towards that set.

I am definitely not transforming this thing i was afraid it would brake just looking at it.

I made that mistake with Lancer and Brooke both have their hands broke

I bought it off Ebay nor refunds..

Never ever a toynami pruduct again !!!