The Sword of Omens is calling. Thundercats to return in 2007!

[Sundown]

And creating a new fan base for a dead franchise doesn't make sense from a "this idea is too neat to die, kids today deserve to see the same bad-ass-itude we had" homage perspective unless you actually pay homage to the original instead of turning Thundercats into "Lion-O and the Pussycats"(or is that "Snarf and the Pussycats?" Honestly, SNARF?).

I seriously doubt "homage" or older audiences was what they had in mind when they resurrected Thundercats. More than likely someone in production remembered Thundercats from their youth, and knowing that it was at least a somewhat successful property, thought it would be a good idea to save development costs and reuse a workable concept proven to be somewhat popular with kids. They then decided to "update" the concept for our youth-centric, hopelessly-hip culture of today, because they deemed that no one wants to watch musclebound anthropomorphic cats in cut off shorts anymore, cause that kind of thing is so 80's. Also, while the old Thundercats was primarily targetted at a male adolescent audience back when there were obvious boy shows and girl shows, the new Thundercats is typical of modern unisex shows, featuring a rockstar prettyboy main character who could potentially appeal to girls instead of our beefy-cat-man who's ready to open a can of shut-up-your-face on Mumra.

Thundercats is obviously not for us. It's for kids made by people resurrecting a property because it worked once, who either don't understand or don't care about what it was that made Thundercats Thundercats to us. Or maybe they're hoping parents who remember the show from their youth might pick it up out of nostalgia for their kids. Of course, they might hate the changes done to the show, but if the kids latch onto the show, by then it doesn't matter anymore.

Sure, the new Thundercats is horribly executed if they're wanting to capture and retain older fans. But there are so many other reasons to bring Thundercats back. If they can get a non-discriminating-non-Macrossworld-reading parent type to pick up a DVD at wallmart out of nostalgic curiousity, then the old property association has done its job.

[Duke Togo]

I gotta say, you guys getting upset about a kid's show is a little pathetic.

[Twoducks]

Creating a new fan base for a dead franchise doesn't make sense from a business perspective unless you want to resurrect the old fan base too. Which requires you treat the original concept with respect lest you alienate the old fan base.

And creating a new fan base for a dead franchise doesn't make sense from a "this idea is too neat to die, kids today deserve to see the same bad-ass-itude we had" homage perspective unless you actually pay homage to the original instead of turning Thundercats into "Lion-O and the Pussycats"(or is that "Snarf and the Pussycats?" Honestly, SNARF?).

It does make sense from a business perspective. What's easier tho sell to a network, executive or similar? A series about a bunch of teens that fight evil when they aren’t playing in a concert or a series based on the 80’s hit, the Thundercats?

Same idea but the second pitch has a better chance of being produced. There is evidence that Thundercats made money, that doesn’t mean that it will make money now but that little fact makes the pitch sound more promising than “Teen rockstar adventures: evil bewareâ€.

Another good thing of reviving a dead franchise is that you can recycle all the art. It’s easier (and more cost efficient) to make old designs look “hip†(or whatever you want to call it) than to create completely new stuff (anorexic Lion-O still looks a lot like the old one). Now add the freedom to rape any old story elements done before, completely lawsuit free, and you just saved yourself some time and money.

What’s easier for a journalist form Animation Magazine to write about? “Rockstar teen" or about a series based on another series that has tons of information already available. Just citing the differences between the old one and the new one is easier, more interesting and more fun to write about (and to read). Free publicity is VERY good (especially when you want the biggest number of networks to air your show), and a journalist will almost always go for the easy/sure-bet article.

And speaking of childhood rapes; in my case, nothing has raped my childhood more than rewatching the shows I liked as a kid.

I bet that 10+ years from now the Pokemon generation will be saying "childhoodrape this and that" when they remake that show.

Edited April 5, 2007 by Twoducks

[EXO]

I gotta say, you guys getting upset about a kid's show is a little pathetic.

I think you're the one making a big deal out of it. Any one of these threads id about how some little injustice is made a big deal yet you choose this one to point out how pathetic it is.

Maybe you just needed to feel better about yourself. Congrats! You're better than us!

Oh yeah... they're gonna make a new Duke Togo cartoon. But instead of killing people he's gonna be singing about ice cream and little boys.

[Duke Togo]

Huh? Look, if you have something to say to me, say it in a PM, don't clutter up the boards with this sorta nonsense.

The "they raped my childhood" argument got old when the Special Editions hit, and at this point its just a little sad. These cartoons are aimed at kids, marketed to kids, and shown predominantly in the mid afternoon, when the kids are home from school. Shows like The Transformers are the exception, not the norm.

Looking back 20 some years later, I realize the thing I like the most about the Thundercats is the opening credits. The rest of it just doesn't hold up. Someone mentioned season 1 of the Transformers earlier, and my God, does it look horrible. Its shocking, its nothing like that I remember.

[EXO]

Huh? Look, if you have something to say to me, say it in a PM, don't clutter up the boards with this sorta nonsense.

The "they raped my childhood" argument got old when the Special Editions hit, and at this point its just a little sad. These cartoons are aimed at kids, marketed to kids, and shown predominantly in the mid afternoon, when the kids are home from school. Shows like The Transformers are the exception, not the norm.

Looking back 20 some years later, I realize the thing I like the most about the Thundercats is the opening credits. The rest of it just doesn't hold up. Someone mentioned season 1 of the Transformers earlier, and my God, does it look horrible. Its shocking, its nothing like that I remember.

If you dont like the way the consensus on a thread is behaving, why don't you send them each and everyone a PM. Instead of calling them pathetic.

The Rape My Childhood argument is only old to people that are tired of hearing it, it never stopped being true.

[Duke Togo]

I haven't noticed a consensus in this thread, other than the story revolving around a possible new Thundercats show sounds just a tad silly, compared to the more serious plot behind the original.

[Scream Man]

Someone mentioned Gargoyles; now there was a cartoon...by DISNEY no less...that was a brilliant piece of animation. From the concepts and story, to the characters and animation, Gargoyles was ashow that was fun for kids but older fans could watch and enjoy as well. The depth to that show is still far beyond almost anything on the airwaves today, and the history and rich backstory hooked many a fan, myself included. Now i recall being somewhere in my late teens when it vcame out, but our nrighbour, who was around 10, LOVED the shpow, and we had long discussions on it.

My point is this: Im not saying i want the same Thundercats as old, but with new animation. I like the idea of Lion-o being younger. I didnt mind the art style. Im not even against a total shift in characters, though id question why make it thunderctas and then totally different. But if it's good, Ill watch it. My complaint is the concept feels dumbed down. Its as if they are treating kids dumber by making a concept that seems shallow, when there is no need for it to be.

My question is: Why make a show aimed at kids, when the REALLY popular western cartoons are the ones for EVERYBODY?

[Duke Togo]

Someone mentioned Gargoyles; now there was a cartoon...by DISNEY no less...that was a brilliant piece of animation. From the concepts and story, to the characters and animation, Gargoyles was ashow that was fun for kids but older fans could watch and enjoy as well.

Oh, I totally agree.

Let's be honest here, a majority of the cartoons in the 80's were half hour long toy commercials. We got lucky if we got one with an ongoing storyline. Its probably what drew so many people to Robotech.

[Scream Man]

ill grant u my memories of a lot of those shows are fuzzy at best. Voltron and Transformers dont live up to the memories.

Thundercats is actually pretty good, all things considered. I think whats annoying about the idea they are going with, is that CONCEPTUALLY they have a winner already. Improving the executioN was al lthey needed to do, both in the story and animation. The lean Lion-o they showed was actually not a bad idea; agile and lithe like a cat. I can even see some advangtages to having the cats on Earth; the idea of them hiding etc amoung the populous, or even better having everyone know about them. Its the Snarf as king and the band that seem to be just pandering to the lowest common denominator.

[David Hingtgen]

I was going to bring up Gargoyles about 1 page ago, in reference to "something for kids AND adults". Similar for Batman: TAS. Both those shows had one thing in common, as I've read in interviews with the writers etc:

Don't "dumb down" the script for kids. Write it intelligently enough that adults can enjoy it, and the kids will as well. Don't pander to them---they can handle surprisingly complex/mature plots and such.

Of course, both Batman:TAS and Gargoyles have to be censored left and right for re-runs, due to being to "mature" and "violent" for today's kids... That's part of the problem right there-----if it's not hearts and balloons, it's too much for kids nowadays, and you get pandering crap as a result.

[Twoducks]

I was going to bring up Gargoyles about 1 page ago, in reference to "something for kids AND adults". Similar for Batman: TAS. Both those shows had one thing in common, as I've read in interviews with the writers etc:

Don't "dumb down" the script for kids. Write it intelligently enough that adults can enjoy it, and the kids will as well. Don't pander to them---they can handle surprisingly complex/mature plots and such.

Of course, both Batman:TAS and Gargoyles have to be censored left and right for re-runs, due to being to "mature" and "violent" for today's kids... That's part of the problem right there-----if it's not hearts and balloons, it's too much for kids nowadays, and you get pandering crap as a result.

Exactly. Kids can take complex stories and don't need to be treated as retards. If you make a story, chances are you will get a more adult audience interested in your show too. It also happened with Tiny Toons; Spielberng wanted to make a quality kids show and he got a following from a lot of different age groups.

But we have to remember that almost all of the shows we liked as kids treated us as retards, or that’s the way it looks when you see those shows with grownup eyes (boy is TF stupid; thank Buda there was Robotech!). The thing is that kids (now and back then) like cartoons and they will watch anything you throw at them, of course they like good shows better, but it's faster and easier to make crap.

You never know, maybe in two years time we will hear people saying that the new Thundercats is worth the time. Scream man mentioned Avatar, the Last Air Bender. The show gives you a very character driven storyline, full of themes you wouldn't expect in a kiddie show, plus great animation and action. And Nicklelodeon keeps betting on the quality that has earned the show tons of followers; you have to wait months just to see a new episode. You know what’s funny? I love the show, but when I first saw the character designs and the synopsis in Animation Magazine years ago, I was fascinated at how much it sounded as a RIPOFF OF EVERYTHING ANIME!!

The article talked about a kid hero, anime influence, martial arts and mystic stuff (wow, that's new). Then we had a pic of an ameri-anime style kid, in a martial arts uniform… with a pet monkey… flying around and with a stick.... I laughed my ass thinking about what a crappy Dragon Ball rip-off avatar was going to be. Some months ago my brother forced me to watch some clips of the show in youtube. Good thing he did; what sounded as an anime rip-off is far better and more interesting than the great majority of the anime out there.

[kung flu]

Don't "dumb down" the script for kids. Write it intelligently enough that adults can enjoy it, and the kids will as well. Don't pander to them---they can handle surprisingly complex/mature plots and such.

I don't think its a matter of dumbing down, you must take into account that kids today are influenced by different things than we were. Even the world events are totally different, we had the cold war, they have the war on terror. Updating an old show like thundercats makes it more like other shows they are familer with instead of old animation. This way it would have more appeal to them. Also by using the thundercats name it would encourage their parents to watch it with them, then get them to buy them the toys.

[Duke Togo]

I don't think its a matter of dumbing down, you must take into account that kids today are influenced by different things than we were. Even the world events are totally different, we had the cold war, they have the war on terror. Updating an old show like thundercats makes it more like other shows they are familer with instead of old animation. This way it would have more appeal to them. Also by using the thundercats name it would encourage their parents to watch it with them, then get them to buy them the toys.

That's pretty much it.

I know this is probably a poor example, because of the audience involved, but take a look at Gunbuster compared to Gunbuster 2. We had many a discussion along similar lines in that thread, and what it really came down to was the era each series represented. Its not 1988, anymore, ya know?

Yeah, who wouldn't like to see a well done, modern production of Thundercats with mature themes? Just not the reality of thing. Personally, I'd say we are lucky the Sword of Omens didn't turn into a guitar (does the Thundertank has speaker pods?).

[bsu legato]

The saddest part of this discussion is that Thunder Cats was merely a second tier ripoff of He-Man, and was never really that good to begin with. And while this is clearly aimed at the kiddies, I have to question the logic of reviving a loooooong dead, B-list name brand to do so. Then again, I'm sure that there's more than a few man-children who will watch this for the sake of watching "Thundercats," no matter how juvenile it is.

[Hurin]

I just don't see the problem with people noticing that this show is pandering to the kids in ways the original did not (if reports are to be believed).

Clearly, all daytime U.S.-produced cartoons are oriented towards kids. But there are degrees to the pandering at play. There is a vast difference between a show that is intended to appeal to kids above all else, and a show that is intended to be quality entertainment that kids can enjoy.

Clearly, this new Thundercats is the former and many would argue much moreso than its original incarnation. I just fail to see why some want to castigate others for noticing.

Edit: Full disclosure. . . I couldn't give two craps about Thundercats. I watched it as a kid but was never a "fan." They could dress them all in pink and have them drive a love bus up Mumra's butt and I wouldn't care.

[EXO]

for people that "pretend" not to care, you guys sure spend a lot of time trying to prove it.

I understand the "this isn't your daddy's Thundercats" POV... I just don't get why people are worked up over the ones that DO care. They're Thundercats fans, plain and simple. And trying to make it a "my He-Man can kick your Lion-O's ass" is just as juvenile as the people crying over what's been done to the franchise.

[Duke Togo]

The saddest part of this discussion is that Thunder Cats was merely a second tier ripoff of He-Man, and was never really that good to begin with.

Neither was He-Man, along with 95% of the other junk we used to watch. The other 5% came from Japan, which is why we are all here.

It is what it is, no?

[bsu legato]

I understand the "this isn't your daddy's Thundercats" POV... I just don't get why people are worked up over the ones that DO care.

That's why I didn't believe this story the first time it was posted, last year. It reads as if it was specifically written to piss off fans of the original. All 8 of them. The Thundercats....led by Snarf....on Earth....playing in a band. It reeks of a parody of how NOT to resurrect a franchise. Why not have them solving mysteries at the same time?

Then again, if this is legit, then it begs the question who is the audience for this? Clearly the 30-something fanbase would want something along the lines of the original, albeit more "dark and brooding" since that seems to make everything more palatable for them. But since this is so far removed from the 80's show, its obviously not for them (except for the real die hards who will watch anyway). But if its for kids, why even use the Thundercats name? It has no meaning to kids today, so its not as if there's any name recognition.

I hope this is just a well thought out joke, at the expense of the now-adult kids whose parents didn't love them enough buy them He-Man or GI Joe. TV land can't be that bereft of creativity that they would move forward with this. Then again, my inner apeface secretly wants this to be true, since it's such a stupid idea.

[bsu legato]

Neither was He-Man, along with 95% of the other junk we used to watch. The other 5% came from Japan, which is why we are all here.

It is what it is, no?

Oh certainly. But in my childhood frame of reference, I could tell that Thundercats was entirely derivative of more successful toy lines. To my then-eleven year old eyes, it was more crappy than the other crap I watched.

[EXO]

I liked the Thundercats. They definitely had better animation than other shows. Other shows had that stock footage type deal where they just kept interchanging the background with the same animated characters all the time. Anyway, I dont want to turn this into a TH vs other shows thing... I think the thread is more about the NEW and IMPROVED show. But the fact that I liked it enough makes the new show's concept seem unbelievable.

But those OG TH toys sucked big time!!!

[JB0]

I just realized something...

I watched Thundercats a LOT.

But I never had a single one of their toys, and can't recall wanting them very badly. Unlike, say, Silverhawks, which I wanted but never got(Don't ask why. We've already established kids have bad taste.).

[kung flu]

I had the Lion-O action figure

what i really wanted was Panthro and the thundertank, never got them

[mister_e]

I had the Lion-O action figure. The Sword of Omens was made of a soft plastic and it pretty much came already bent in the package or would bend very soon after opening it. I could never get it straightened out either.

[Twoducks]

Always wanted the tank. I did have Lion-O. I would cover him with tape, like a mummy, and then set him free... again and again.

I also had the one with the wip. A friend of mine always said I got a bootleg and not the real one. It really pissed me off when he said that.

[Scream Man]

I just had Lion-o as well. id have loved Panthra and the Thundertank.

[Nightbat]

why even use the Thundercats name? It has no meaning to kids today, so its not as if there's any name recognition.

Because daddy will let them watch it!

"Cow and Who?"

"AnimaniWTF's?"

"....Hey, Thundercats!!! Wow, haven't seen that in a while"

...next thing you'll see is kids watching a cartoon and dad having a heartattack on the couch

[kensei]

I dunno, i used to be a Thundercats fan as well, but the thing is that now that I've watched it again, I feel utterly embarrassed that I actually liked it. The intro especially....it makes me cringe.

[Duke Togo]

I dunno, i used to be a Thundercats fan as well, but the thing is that now that I've watched it again, I feel utterly embarrassed that I actually liked it. The intro especially....it makes me cringe.

Man, the intro is the one thing worth watching!!

[Uxi]

I think I had most of these toys. I remember Lion-o, the tank, Cheetarah, etc. I don't think I had any of the bad guys, though, except the wolf guy...