Official - Weapons Banter Thread

[Opus]

Hopefully I'll be able to get an M-1 Carbine in the next year that wont cost me an arm and a leg.....maybe even a Paratrooper Model!

I wouldn't get my hopes up too high. Everyones got a hardon for WW2 paratroopers right now so expect the prices on that stuff to stay high. You can thank Spielburg/Hanks for that.

[Noriko Takaya]

Hey, thanks! I'll check out his site. As for the grenade rounds, yeah, I knew that you had to fill out the damned form for each round you purchased. Kind of sucks. However, I didn't think the shot shells for the M203 fell under that since they are pretty much like any other shotgun shell. Then again, that makes sense, and we are talking about a government agency here.

What are your opinions on the old Sten gun? I saw one earlier today, and have never seen one up close outside of TV or a video game (Ex: Wolfenstein, Call of Duty.) They look like a moron could operate the damned thing, it looks so plain and abstract. I saw the thing when I was playing around with an old H&K 93 rifle. The Sten was also full auto and looked brand new. Didn't get a price though.

[Opus]

As for your M203 dilema have you ever just wanted the look of a thumper without the paperwork or hassle? DPMS sells a "replica" M203 launcher for $200 that is a dead nuts correct M203, just with a dummy trigger. I have one and it is a dead ringer for the real deal just that it is DOR rather than live. It is indistiguishable from a real M203... the levers work, the tube opens and everything. The only wiener is that the trigger is fixed and it has no hammer or guts inside, plus the barrel is a smoothbore stepdown incapable of chambering a round. A real life M203 is a bank bleeder waiting to happen, because acording to BATF regs not only do you have to pay the $200 stamp tax and fill out a form 4 for the launcher itself but you also have to do so for each round you purchase for it. The 40mm rounds themselves are considered to be DD's just like the tube. A real pisser unless you are Daddy Warbucks.

Just get the 37mm launcher and some bird bombs. Those things are fun.

[Mechamaniac]

Ahhh, the ban is gone.

Unfortunately, that does not mean the prices will return to normal.

If I was going to buy an "assault" rifle, I would definitely go for the FNC. I was admiring one in a shop Noriko and I know of not too long ago which carried with it a whopping $2995 price tag!

I remember back in the pre ban days when those were about a grand, and rightfully so, FN makes some of the best firearms in the world, but 3K for what would amount to a fun gun is just too damned rich for my blood.

On a side note, there was an article in the Baltimore sun yesterday that had a picture of my old boss from when I worked at a local gun shop called Bart's Sporting Goods. The dude is as big a hypocrite as he always was. They have him pictured holding a sniper rifle in one hand, and a neutered AR in the other, and the quote says "That style of weapon was never our thing".

Hmmm, now why is it that I remember when they not only sold them, but when they were an authorized Colt Law Enforcement distributor? How many forms did I fill out for cops buying "evil" AR's, and how many ultimate use affidavit's did I process

Man, I the stories I could tell about opportunities lost while working at that place....

[bsu legato]

Hopefully I'll be able to get an M-1 Carbine in the next year that wont cost me an arm and a leg.....maybe even a Paratrooper Model! 

I wouldn't get my hopes up too high. Everyones got a hardon for WW2 paratroopers right now so expect the prices on that stuff to stay high. You can thank Spielburg/Hanks for that.

He could always just get a regular carbine and buy a Reproduction Para Stock.

Edited September 16, 2004 by bsu legato

[JsARCLIGHT]

Just get the 37mm launcher and some bird bombs. Those things are fun.

That is a problem though, the 37mm Bird Bomb shells are illegal. No matter who tells you otherwise the BATF's position on 37mm loads is if it is anything but a flare it is a DD and thus an NFA Item. Now they will not come kicking in your door over a few Bird Bomb shells but those things to them are just as hot as an unregistered machine gun or a hand grenade. There has been a massive cracking down on 37mm launchers and supplies of late because of that. Many companies that once built or stocked the tubes have discontinued to do so due to litigation and federal charges being brought against them. 37mm, while many believe it to be legal, is right on that grey boarderline of law.

... plus add to that that most 37mm under barrel launchers look and function nothing like a real M203. Most of the current ilk like the Cobray and RPB launchers hang waaaaay too low and loose and have really crappy mounts and build materials. Plus they have giant gold or white lettering on the barrels calling them out as signaling devices along with other "read your user's manual" things... really fugly.

As for the STEN guns they are what they are: bargain basement open bolt SMG's. While some seem to be great guns others are horrid. The STEN has to be one of the common era's most built automatics as all it usually takes to build one is a nice thick exhuast pipe tube and some time at a workbench. Some pros and cons and cons on the STEN family are as follows: Pros are the weapons are simple, light and relatively durable. Being made from so few parts and almost entirely of metal stampings with only one machined part (the bolt) they are uber cheap. The Cons of STEN weapons are just what you'd think they would be. The weapon's barrel is too short to be effective at longer ranges and the inability to fire on semiauto on most models make them the classic "spray and pray" weapon. Most models even do not have sights and you just shoot from the hip or sight down the barrel. Two hazzards of STEN weapons are heat and the magazine. Being made almost entirely of metal and with no real gripping areas the weapon heats up fast and becomes too hot to handle at times. Oh and never, ever hold the weapon by the magazine. Holding it by the magazine puts pressure on the mag and actually on some models puts a slight "angle" to the mag and causes feeding issues.

The only STEN design I have ever shot was a Mark 3 with the wire loop stock. It was a Class II demo unit that a local manufacturer made in his shop just or kicks. All it took was a pre-marked tube section, a few hours at a workbench, a Mk3 parts kit from the war and some time finishing and assembling and bam... instant STEN. The weapon actually feels like you are holding something you built yourself in a garage. Recoil is manageable but the wire stock is a pain on the shoulder. Mag changes are fast and rate of fire is slow compared to modern compact SMG's like micro UZI's or Ingrams... but at the same time the tubular nature of the weapon acts a bit better when it comes to holding and firing it. If given an opportunity to shoot another I would like to shoot a later model variation like the Mk5 that has some wood on it or a pistol grip... that wire stock was a killer.

[bsu legato]

Best. Firearm accessory. Ever.

http://www.e-gunparts.com/DisplayAd.asp?ch...KU=717900&MC=YJ

I wonder if they ship to Canada.

[Opus]

Best. Firearm accessory. Ever.

http://www.e-gunparts.com/DisplayAd.asp?ch...KU=717900&MC=YJ

I wonder if they ship to Canada.

I know someone who has one of those. It's just plain silly. But so are most 10/22 owners.

[JsARCLIGHT]

I've seen one of those before, they are hilarious! Give that to your 7 year old and dress him up in a mini SA outfit and BAM minikraut!

[bsu legato]

I don't suppose anybody has any experience with THESE, do they? Not particularly my cup o tea, but if the price is right I might be tempted to get one someday.

[JsARCLIGHT]

I have not seen a K100 in person yet... in fact, other than industry hype I have not seen much about them at all... or heard much about their parent company. I think the real question will be "is it legal to import to the US?"... a lot of arms makers still cannot get some of their wares into the country due to standing laws reguarding import of firearms. The AWB may be gone but it's blockage of importing certain weapons and the presidential ban on other weapons is still keeping a good number of weapons off our shores.

Edit: the main "legal loophole" a company can use to bypass most of these laws is the "US Parts and ownership" provision. As long as the company has an office in the US and the weapon employs a certain number of US made parts it can be made legal for import. That is how Interarms and Hesse get most of their "imported" weapons into the country... by having a shop stateside and slapping on a few domestic parts to legalize the importation.

Edited September 25, 2004 by JsARCLIGHT

[Mechamaniac]

I don't suppose anybody has any experience with THESE, do they? Not particularly my cup o tea, but if the price is right I might be tempted to get one someday.

Looks like it really wants to be a Walther P99, while also looking like the next step in the CZ series evolution.

I love those copycat designs. The third world is always so good at pulling them off.

Edited September 25, 2004 by Mechamaniac

[Noriko Takaya]

I love those copycat designs. The third world is always so good at pulling them off.

They sure are at that!

On a little side note, my newly refurbished upper for my AR will be coming in on Monday or Tuesday. I'll try to get a few before and after pictures posted. As for the M4 version I wanted, I think I'll wait until tax time. It was cheaper to just get the gunsmithing done to it instead of buying new parts. I'll finally be able to make those bayonet charges like I always wanted to!

[JsARCLIGHT]

The trick with firearms is that they have almost reached the pinnacle that this technology can attain... pretty much all weapons now are just using the same concepts, designs and mechanical principals over and over again and they are just finding new materials to build them out of. Back in the '80s pretty much every weapon was metal then Glock came along and proved you could make a weapon out of a plastic... now everyone makes some sort of plastic weapon. Now that titanium has hit the market and other aircraft materials weapons are getting lighter, stronger and more accurate... but their general funciton and form has not changed in over 40 years. The "Next Generation" weapons, be them caseless, not bullets or what are still in the development stages. Everything you see until then is just one company's alternate take on the same-old same-old... nothing that technically breaks new ground no matter how much they posture and brag. Rolling bolt, rotating bolt, gas delayed bolt, open bolt you name it... they all do the same thing in the end, they just reach it at different ways.

[Chowser]

ok, well, I'm still undecided on whether to get a rifle or the new HK Subcompact.

but I just got my slides back from Cummings Custom Refinishing, and I think they look pretty neat.

Hopefully, I am the first/only guy with a stainless colored HK USP Compact in .357 SIG.

[Hurricane29]

Sweet, they look great.

[JsARCLIGHT]

Nice. I myself have always been partial to two-tone pistols. It gives the weapon a "custom" look even if all it is is a finish difference. I used to have a Sig 232 two-tone with a black anodized frame and a stainless slide. It was a pretty flashy little guy, I used to call it my "double-oh pimp" pistol.

Anyhoo it seems everyone has a new project up their sleeves lately. I myself have started building a M4 SOCOM last week and plan to option the sucker into next week. Some goodies already lined up or on order for it are:

- Knights RAS with AN/PEQ2 laser

- M203

- C-More Tactical Optics Suite

- Hogue grip with M4 SOCOM 6 position Stock

I have already started ordering parts and I already have spares if anyone needs them. I have a M16 M203 Handguard with front Leaf Sight and a complete AR lower parts kit (kit and grip, semi) if anyone needs them. Drop me a line, I'll sell them cheap.

[Mechamaniac]

Nice makeover on those pistols Chowser!

I've been thinking of having that done to my Smith & Wesson PPC revolver since the bluing is wearing off after many years.

But I don't know if they can strip bluing, and plate on a satin finish without dicking up the tolerances on the surface.

[Noriko Takaya]

Got my new upper today and attached it to my AR. It sure does look a lot different now that it finally has the parts that were meant to be on it. Thank God the AWB sunset. I will post some before and after pictures later.

[Noriko Takaya]

Since this is the firearms thread, I am keeping this here. I have a spare 20" post-ban A2 upper receiver that needs a home. If anyone is looking for one of these, and is a US citizen only which resides in a state where AR's are allowed, PM me and let me know if you are interested.

[valkyrietestpilot]

man,nice HK's chowser.i'm considering getting a stainless slide for my SA XD-9.i love the 2-tone look & living just a few miles from a saltwater ocean kinda makes it practical for me too.i've noticed very small areas on my black slide want to start rusting a little too soon for as new as this baby is.i've started to clean it on a more frequent basis as a result.

[Chowser]

how do you like the XD? Does that grip safety work the same way as a standard 1911?

Here's something I've noticed:

I had so many scratches and gouges on my HK slide from hitting the ground, hitting doors, people's heads, etc. I decided to get it refinished. Also the extractor was turning purple.

The gun was made in 1999. My Glock 19 was made in 1998.

Both have seen abuse. But the tenifer finish on the Glock is IMHO, better than the HE finish on my HK. I was starting to get some rust spots on my HK. No differences in carry. I used to carry either in an IWB holster under my t-shirt, so I guess when I was sweating, the gun was getting coated. But no rust on my Glock.

So hopefully, the new coatings will prevent any more rust. Now, I wear two shirts, one against my skin, then gun, then cover shirt. That should help a little bit.

[JsARCLIGHT]

One thing to keep in mind is that your USP's slide is milled from a brick of steel whereas that Glock slide (I have been told) is made from 7075 T6 Alloy. Steel rusts, Aluminum doesn't. But steel is far sturdier and lasts longer than Aluminum given propper treatment.

The best way to prevent premature rustout on pistols and other long arms is to keep them nice and lubed with CLP. The oils from contact with skin and holsters can wick the CLP off a gun faster than a sponge and then begin to eat away at the thinner spots in the finishing.

[valkyrietestpilot]

chowser,

i really love these new SA XD pistols.i'm not sure if the grip safety works exactly the same as the 1911,cause i've never shot 1 of those.i've held 1 a long,long time ago,but i can't remember what that grip safety even looked like.

my SA actually has no push button safety on it at all.the grip safety has to be depressed at the same time as the trigger & secondary safety directly beside the trigger.when all 3 are depressed,only then will the gun discharge.i feel this actually gives you an enormous amount of control over the weapon.some have argued that it would be too complicated in a high-stress tactical situation,but i disagree.this thing would be an advantage i think cause,you have no button safety to fumble with.it's ready to go when you are.i've noticed that i have adapted my carry style w/ this weapon as well.i hold it with my trigger finger on the outside of the trigger guard at all times until i'm ready to discharge it at a target.i didn't realize i had started to do this until i noticed 1 day that i was holding it that way even when i was dissassembling it for cleaning.it just seems to be real easy to adapt very quickly to this very different type of pistol/safety system.

Edited October 5, 2004 by valkyrietestpilot

[valkyrietestpilot]

that photo above shows how i hold this baby at all times as well as a good view of that double trigger saftey

[VF19]

That thing is so a Frankenstein of a Glock 17/possibly 19 frame, and a SIG P220 series Slide.

[JsARCLIGHT]

ValkTP may not have shot a 1911 but I own one and have shot the XD line and I can say that the grip safety is very similair in execution but rather than the nice wide web of your hand filling smooth beavertail that most 1911's sport the grip safety on the XD is a nasty little thin buttonlike thing. See the below pic of a XD9 compared to a Glock:

I myself found the grip safety on the XD pistol I shot to be uncomfortable compared to that on a 1911, it feels more like the hard button safety on an UZI. You are concious that it is there and that your hand is pushing it in while I feel that the grip safety on my 1911 is so smooth that you don't notice it's there. I have always been of the opinion that grip safeties are a waste of time... have you ever actually drop tested a grip safety? They don't work that well... Neither do trigger safeties like the one on Glocks or on the XD series. The only hard functioning safety is a nice mechanical firing pin blocker... all the fancy grip, trigger and whatnot safeties just annoy most shooters. As for "grab" security for LEOs the grip and trigger safeties don't add much extra protection and most of the time a nice no-grab positive draw holster is a better investment.

As for the XD being a mutt, it is. Springfield wanted it that way to hone in on the Glock and Sigma market a bit with a combat tupperware of their own. I think they went a tad overboard on all the shtick... I mean they actually went so far as to glom a teeny little light rail on the XD Subcompact. That is just crazy weird. How many people do you know who are going to whip out a teeny Sub carry pistol from an ankle holster and click on their tac light?

[JsARCLIGHT]

OK so in my adventures in trying to get an AN/PEQ2 (and failing) I decided to scrap my plans to build out a SOCOM M4A1 and instead went back to my roots... the NAM.

So I present my new baby, freshly assembled from a Bushmaster lower and a salvaged Colt M16A1 parts kit (semi auto guts used for legality) complete with a real steel demilled M203 thumper (not some panzy ass airsoft plastic tube) and a very rare early milspec fully adjustable leaf sight. My late '70s swinging quad sight is still in the mail (those early quad sights are hard to find nowadays)... and yes it is just as heavy as it looks. I was going to take a pic with L's brandishing it but my wife has this little issue (as do I) of her picture being posted on the internet so you steel hounds will just have to settle for a pic of the rifle and the early leaf sight.

[VF19]

Please excuse me while I drool senselessly on my keyboard.

[Lynx7725]

Ah, bring back good memories of my recruit days when I handled an M203.. I was accurate with the "curry powder" rounds too!

Loved the look and feel of the M16/ M203 combo.

[JsARCLIGHT]

The big question is do I put a sling on it? I have a box full of viet era green M14/M16 slings (the ones with the loud metal hardware the troops hated so much) and with a side sling adaptor I could sling it out... and the side sling was built in the late seventies so it would be period accurate for the most part...

[Commander McBride]

I say go for the sling, it looks cool, and this weapon is (I'm assuming from the useless 203) for show anyway.

Onto another issue, does anyone know anything about the new HK UCP? It looks like an intriguing weapon, but, IMO, it's hideous. The frame looks way too smooth and plain. It looks like a low-budget Sci-Fi weapon rather than something you'd really want to take into combat.

[Chowser]

Onto another issue, does anyone know anything about the new HK UCP? It looks like an intriguing weapon, but, IMO, it's hideous. .

thanks for the info on the XD. I keep hearing positives and negatives on it, but my next purchase is an HK P2000SK in .357.

hopefully. if it ever comes out.

SLING IT MAN! Nothing like having a gun with a sling.

trying to figure out how have both the M16 and Benelli slung when going on a call....

What is the UCP?

Sounds kinda interesting.

best hk reference page i can find

[JsARCLIGHT]

On the contrary, that rifle is fully operational. The M203 has the firing pin and trigger mechanism demilled so it is legal to own without filing BATF Form 4 paperwork but with a few mods and swapping of parts it could be fully operational... but who really needs a grenade lanucher without any grenades?... or the BATF breaking down your door for possession of an illegal DD? There is no such thing as a "show pony" in my weapons safe, everything is a fully functional firearm capable of chambering and shooting live ammo in the capacity it was designed to act. You could say that it is for show because it will most likely spend it's entire life inside my safe next to it's brothers but unlike an airsoft or model gun this thing can be called to duty in seconds... The only thing is few people feel comfortable whipping out that goliath at a gun range and screaming "Say hello to my litto frien'!"

As for the H&K Universal Combat Pistol, keep in mind that version you keep seeing is just the first prototype. Think of it like the H&K Caseless rifle, it is more proof of concept than it is functional military weapon system right now. It's goal was to build a combat pistol chambered in their new proprietary armor piercing round designed for the new MP7-PDW and to be a "mated" action piece to the MP7. Rumor was that it is slated to be the new sidearm of American and European combat troops under the OICW plan... but the OICW plan changes every year so we shall see. But for now don't be suprised if the outer appearance of the UCP changes dramatically over the course of it's development.

Edit: Here is a pic of the UCP complete with it's special suppressor and LAM prototype unit. Smooth as a baby's ass...

Edited October 7, 2004 by JsARCLIGHT

[pfunk]

With the ban lifted, is it possible to purchase H&K .308 (g3) (do they even make it anymore?)

Edited October 7, 2004 by pfunk