DestroidsRage Posted November 28, 2003 Posted November 28, 2003 SUB-TOPIC!!! Why in the bleadin hell is Sweden phasing out the incredibly awesome one of a kind beloved S-TANK?? The legendary Bofors Stridsvagn 103 MAIN BATTLE TANK. Why Why why? Up gun it and give it better electronics and it would be great again!! Its got such a low profile, enemy gunners would be extremely hard pressed to hit it, its basically the 'new' STUG!! The S-Tank is my favorite modern day Tank, and I seriously dont want it to ever dissapear. So why in the bloody hell are the Swedes replacing their S-Tanks with those freaking run of the mill Leopard 2 German MBTs?? Rumor was circulating that Finland would switch to the Leopard 2 also. Which is INFERNAL, because neither country needs such a tank. MMM. Banter. -BEN-MAN-
F-ZeroOne Posted November 28, 2003 Posted November 28, 2003 The S-Tank does indeed look cool, and its certainly a novel concept. However, the British Army tested the type a while back and found it had a number of drawbacks; it could not fire with any great accuracy while on the move and had to expose a large area of the vehicle when in a hull-down firing posistion. I would imagine there are drawbacks to not having a turret as well ( for example, I've often seen on the news US tanks traversing Iraq in a staggered column, with each tanks gun covering a different direction; I'd be interested to know how the S-Tank would do that...! ) Also, given the general downsizing of most NATO armies recently, I would imagine the Leopard 2s were available and the Swiss army felt they represented better value for money than an up grade. I can't believe I'm going to say this next bit, but... the S-Tank is actually a guest star in at least one episode of the infamous "Legend of the Overfiend" series, for reasons that can only be be guessed at...
bsu legato Posted November 28, 2003 Posted November 28, 2003 What's wrong with the Leopard 2? It's as modern an AFV as any other NATO tank. Besides, there's worse things for a nation to arm themselves with. Canada still has it's inventory of antique Leopard 1 tanks. <_< As for turretless tanks, the WW2 Stug, along with the German tank hunters, definitely had their drawbacks. For example, they were difficult to use in a defensive position, as the entire tank had to be turned to track a target.
bsu legato Posted March 16, 2004 Posted March 16, 2004 Rise....from the grave! Just thought I'd bring this topic back to life for the time being. It looks like the idea of the Army's XM-8 beign chambered for the 6.8 cartridge isn't just wishfull thinking. http://www.strategypage.com/gallery/defaul...88cartridge.htm The good thing about this is if you Yanks switch to the 6.8, then maybe Canada's armed forces could actually afford to pick up some surplus 5.56 for dirt cheap.
pfunk Posted March 16, 2004 Posted March 16, 2004 Rise....from the grave!Just thought I'd bring this topic back to life for the time being. It looks like the idea of the Army's XM-8 beign chambered for the 6.8 cartridge isn't just wishfull thinking. http://www.strategypage.com/gallery/defaul...88cartridge.htm The good thing about this is if you Yanks switch to the 6.8, then maybe Canada's armed forces could actually afford to pick up some surplus 5.56 for dirt cheap. bout friggin time. tired of the guys at the range shooting holes in dimes saying its the most accurate bullit around
Noriko Takaya Posted March 17, 2004 Posted March 17, 2004 What is it with the United States that we can't make our own infantry weapons anymore? The Baretta 9mm (Italian), the AT4 rocket launcher (Swedish), the Minimi M249 SAW (Belgian), ect are all foriegn made weapons which seem to revolve around what NATO wants. Ah, I'm not going to even get started... Just ignore me.
Opus Posted March 17, 2004 Posted March 17, 2004 What is it with the United States that we can't make our own infantry weapons anymore? The Baretta 9mm (Italian), the AT4 rocket launcher (Swedish), the Minimi M249 SAW (Belgian), ect are all foriegn made weapons which seem to revolve around what NATO wants.Ah, I'm not going to even get started... Just ignore me. They may be foreign designs but their manufactured in the US. It's not anything new the US has been using foriegn weapons since it's inception. Enfield rifles from the UK, swords from various German manufacturers,etc.....
KingNor Posted March 17, 2004 Posted March 17, 2004 I like all types of muzzle loading riffles, as far as guns go. my favorite typs of weapons are staff weapons. like poles, sticks. it would be nice to have a potential weapon for defence never far away. as for fantasy guns. i really like the Warthog from HALO.. does that count as a "weapon?"
Isamu Atreides 86 Posted March 17, 2004 Posted March 17, 2004 What is it with the United States that we can't make our own infantry weapons anymore? The Baretta 9mm (Italian), the AT4 rocket launcher (Swedish), the Minimi M249 SAW (Belgian), ect are all foriegn made weapons which seem to revolve around what NATO wants.Ah, I'm not going to even get started... Just ignore me. They may be foreign designs but their manufactured in the US. It's not anything new the US has been using foriegn weapons since it's inception. Enfield rifles from the UK, swords from various German manufacturers,etc..... yep, Like the Kragg used in the Spanish american war and the Springfield '03, which was a Mauser, switched to American standards, i think. Hell, Even John Garand was a Canadian.
Warmaker Posted March 17, 2004 Posted March 17, 2004 Garand was Canadian? Didn't know that. As for the XM-8, I read somewhere that a bunch of people getting to test it out like it alot. All the other services got some of them to try out. The USMC has been looking at it but hasn't said they would take it as a new service rifle... because of that M16A4 thing I bet. I hope the Corps does take the 6.8mm XM-8. I like my M16A2 and I'm throughly trained with it, but that thing needs to go. Nice to see this thread resurrected.
Chowser Posted March 18, 2004 Posted March 18, 2004 wow, I just saw an FN FiveseveN for sale, when these first came out, I thought individuals weren't allowed to buy them and the ammo was also controlled by FN. Now I see that I can buy the IOM (individual officer's model) with 20 rounds mags and ammo too!. Anyone know when this happened and why? I won't be buying one ($700 is too much! I'm buying another HK soon) unless they offer the FN P90 for individual officer sale (not!) ----- well, our M-16s suck, old military surplus, they are still sitting in our safe, and we are not allowed to use them, not even us range officers. they haven't even purchased ammo yet. they were real quick to get the conversion kits to make them all semi-auto only, but after that, nothing. they've been sitting over a year. guess i should break'em down and oil them just in case.
pfunk Posted March 19, 2004 Posted March 19, 2004 wow, I just saw an FN FiveseveN for sale, when these first came out, I thought individuals weren't allowed to buy them and the ammo was also controlled by FN. Now I see that I can buy the IOM (individual officer's model) with 20 rounds mags and ammo too!.Anyone know when this happened and why? I won't be buying one ($700 is too much! I'm buying another HK soon) unless they offer the FN P90 for individual officer sale (not!) ----- well, our M-16s suck, old military surplus, they are still sitting in our safe, and we are not allowed to use them, not even us range officers. they haven't even purchased ammo yet. they were real quick to get the conversion kits to make them all semi-auto only, but after that, nothing. they've been sitting over a year. guess i should break'em down and oil them just in case. That would be a waste of perfectly good oil
Shadow Posted March 19, 2004 Posted March 19, 2004 fav firearms M4 Carbine M-14 MP-5 (great submachinegun) Mauser 98K AK-74 M-16A1 HK PSG-1 (possibly the best semi-auto sniper rifle in the world) FN P90 Sig Sauer P226 Mk.23 SOCOM Colt 1911
bsu legato Posted March 19, 2004 Posted March 19, 2004 Welcome, Shadow. Considering that Macross World collectively owns 95% of your list, I'd say you're in good company.
Chowser Posted March 20, 2004 Posted March 20, 2004 well, we got some ammo in, so I finally dug out the ONE M-16 we have that still has the full-auto trigger. we only have 20 rounds. this thing sucks. had to sit there and figure out how to work it since we got no manuals, but i didn't like it in semi or full-auto. oh well. guess i got spoiled with the MP5s, UMPs, and G36s we have on the SWAT team.
bsu legato Posted March 20, 2004 Posted March 20, 2004 A fine contribution to the discussion as always, Red Comet. How old do you figure your M16s are, Chowser? Are we talking 'Nam era M16A1s that somebody dug out of storage?
JsARCLIGHT Posted March 20, 2004 Posted March 20, 2004 My guess (not meaning to step on our fine friend Chowser) is that they are original "vintage" rifles. (puts on grandpa hat) Back in the day, the US government contracted tons of people to make M16s and later M16A1s for the war effort in Vietnam. When the war was over the army was totally stocked with A1's at every corner of their command... most of these guns had seen action, a fair number got demilled after being damaged and an even greater number just plain got mothballed. After Vietnam, the armed forces noticed several things about the A1 they did not like and thus began a program to improve the design (like they did with the original M16) and phase out the old model again. Annother big reason for this move were that the different branches of the armed forces were using different guns... they were all "M16, rifle, infantry" weapons but the different branches had different models. The Air Force (the first branch to field the M16) and the Marines still had the version without a forward assist in some places whereas the Army had the FA model. What then happened was an inside testing and development period from the late '70s into the '80s to revamp and uniform the M16 rifle. What came of this program was the M16A2 main battle rifle in the early '80s. It took years for the A2 to finally replace the A1 in most commands and the military was left with a buttload of old A1 weapons, a good number still new in the plastic. So what does the American military do with old/obsolite weapons? Sell them. From the mid eighties the military was selling these A1 rifles by the case to allies, law enforcement and just about anyone who ponied up the cash. Lots of the A1 rifles made their way into the hands of private citizens and even more made their way into the hands of local law enforcement. It was finally things like the 1997 Hollywood Hills shootout in LA that prompted almost all local law enforcement agencies to purchase a number of those surplus A1 rifles like the LAPD did and issue them to ERT teams and shift supervisors in case another crazed loon came out of the woodwork with assault weapons. It was shortly after this that the law enforcement family learned of the downside of the A1 rifle: super penetration of the bullets. You pull the trigger on an A1 and there is a good chance that bullet is going to go through the suspect, through the wall and hit someone else. So to reduce that risk a lot of departments removed the full auto guts in their guns and replaced them with semiauto to cut down on the rapid fire danger of the guns. (takes off grandpa hat)
Solscud007 Posted March 29, 2004 Posted March 29, 2004 My latest airsoft goody. Moded with a real steel heat shield and simple velcro on the side to attach my blackhawk vest shotgun shell holder.
kanata67 Posted March 29, 2004 Posted March 29, 2004 Guns, guns, guns... I soooo don't dare that temptation. I did however pick up an authentic wwII japanse field soldiers full tang not to long ago at a price I could afford. Shipping was more than it . Not a kamakazi blade, but those are way beyond my price range Oh yeah... my valentines gift was a 175 lbs draw buckmaster competition crossbow. I still haven't mounted the laser sight on it [a friggin laser sight on a crossbow!] but it sure does shoot through some fences. I have yet to dig through my box of broad heads as it's a b1tch getting the arrows out of the fence with the practice points . Not much to hunt when you live in an apartment complex... especially when your married I just know I'm forgeting something I liked... ... anyone else want a custom estwing polearm?
JsARCLIGHT Posted April 15, 2004 Posted April 15, 2004 Hey Solscud007 you seem to have a grip on the airsoft thing, can you answer me a question? I just recently found out that they made an airsoft of the original prototype CAR-15 Colt Commando rifle and I wanted to get one... seeing as the originals are all either destroyed, super uber rarest of the rare class III weapons or in some collector's safe with a sign saying "don't touch for any reason" but everywhere I go no one carries them or is not carrying them. Are they "out of print" or something? Does anyone know where I can get one of those?
Solscud007 Posted April 15, 2004 Posted April 15, 2004 You basically said it yourself. Out of print. Every manufacturer has a hard on for M4 variants. and the days of XM 117 and Car15s are gone
JsARCLIGHT Posted April 15, 2004 Posted April 15, 2004 Well crap on a crap cracker... Now I have to win that orignal CAR-15 upper on eBay and just build a real one!
ShadowerV2 Posted April 15, 2004 Posted April 15, 2004 My all time favourite is this... Yeah I hear that. Next to a ketchup bottle that's the best thing you can use. And you can always say it's an "accident"
bsu legato Posted April 15, 2004 Posted April 15, 2004 Well crap on a crap cracker...Now I have to win that orignal CAR-15 upper on eBay and just build a real one! Shouldn't you finish your other "projects" first?
Red Comet Posted April 22, 2004 Posted April 22, 2004 My all time favourite is this... Â Â Yeah I hear that. Next to a ketchup bottle that's the best thing you can use. And you can always say it's an "accident" Actually the best weapon in the world is the folding chair...you can use it anywhere in any situation without anyone's suspicion...
Mechamaniac Posted April 25, 2004 Author Posted April 25, 2004 Holy crap!!!!! http://www.monstersinmotion.com/weapons/pulserifle.html
Isamu Atreides 86 Posted April 25, 2004 Posted April 25, 2004 Holy crap!!!!!http://www.monstersinmotion.com/weapons/pulserifle.html thats pretty sweet. damn i wish i had resin Skillz...
Chowser Posted April 25, 2004 Posted April 25, 2004 sorry for the delay in pics, my daughter had pneumonia this past week so i've been at home with her. here's the pic of my dept's M16s. These SEMI-AUTO only versions will be going in the safes in our trunks this summer next to our Tasers and Less-Lethal shotguns. wish someone would just invent the Phaser and we'll be done. Just no STUN setting please! The shrink said if I shot one more person, he'll certify me so I can retire at 70% tax free with full-medical benefits! woohoo! no takers lately though....seems we've had our run of psychos already this year.
Mechamaniac Posted April 25, 2004 Author Posted April 25, 2004 Geez, must be a bad area Hope you like your fast pack parts..... Jesus, that's an A1!! I haven't seen one of those since basic training! And even then we were phasing in the A2's. Of course, the oldest weapon I ever saw in the Army was the OLD Remington - Rand .45 I qualified with in MP school. That thing was so beat up, if you shook it in your hand you could hear all kinds of stuff rattling around. You can imagine it's accuracy, and why I only qualified marksman. However, a year later when they handed me the shiny new Beretta, I qualified expert, hmmmm. Too bad the Beretta was a pussy 9MM, not anything big enough to actually stop someone.
bsu legato Posted April 25, 2004 Posted April 25, 2004 Chowser, that's so cynical it almost made me raise an eyebrow. Almost. Anyway, thanks for posting the pics of that....antique. Jeeze, nothing but the best for your department, huh? Oh yeah, if there ever is such a thing as a group purchase for the MiM Pulse Rifle (non-airsoft version), count me in.
flyboy Posted April 25, 2004 Posted April 25, 2004 (edited) Holy crap!!!!!http://www.monstersinmotion.com/weapons/pulserifle.html Here's an alternative... Costs 1/5 the price of the working Monsters in Motion version. More metal content, too. Some assembly required... Felix Edited April 25, 2004 by flyboy
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