Biology question

[Lonely Soldier Boy]

Hi guys,

As some of you know I work in the comics industry.

Right now I'm working a new science fiction script. I stumbled with a technical problem and I know that we have a lot of well informed people in aerospace and whatnot on these boards.

I know the question may seem stupid for some, so please be sensitive about my ignorance and don't make a scandal okay?

Let's say you're on a terraformed planet. You have rain, you have dirt, you have a sun, but the ecosystem itself is engineered, which means there are no animals, only engineered plants and bacteria, the basics to create and maintain at breathable atmosphere. If this was possible and your buddy died, would he decompose without maggots? Where do maggots come from? Do they appear spontaneously on a decomposing organism?

Thanks in advance for checking out this thread. I f you don't have the answer, but know somebody who might, please ask her or him.

[EXO]

maggots are fly larvae, like catterpillars are butterflies.

bodies decompose over time unless they are preserved like mummies. think about dinosaurs that are buried in the dirt, over time only the fossilized bones are left.

[the white drew carey]

Bacteria itself is a big factor in decomposition. So if your terra-formed planet does include bacteria as you stated earlier, chances are he will decompose.

[T.V.]

Decomposition would still probably happen, though somewhat differently.

The afformentioned bacteria (needed for the fertilisation process) will probably also breakdown/consume a corpse, since it's organic material.

An ecosystem without such a robust decomposition capacity will not function properly, because it at least needs to reprocess dead plants.

P.S.

I'm no biology major or eco-system expert, so I'm just reasoning based on my limited knowledge on the subject thanks to exposure to National Geographic Channel and Discovery Channel.

[justvinnie]

Your buddy will decompose without maggots. It's very difficult to sterilize the human body if not impossible. The fact he is even on the planet means that it has protozoans, fungi, and bacterial microflora. These would begin the process of decomposition immediately upon death. That is unless he dies where his body can get frozen or he dies where his body will dessicate quickly.

[Lonely Soldier Boy]

I love you guys.

You've all helped me a big deal. Membership has its privileges

[EXO]

even if the environment doesn't have bacteria which would be kinda impossible, the human body has enough bacteria in itself to help decompose on it's own... albeit in a much slower rate.

[sketchley]

I think everyone's got it: external (bacteria, insects, etc., from the environment) and internal (bacteria, food, etc. from inside the body.)

If you have the time, energy, and means, I recommend watching CSI (Las Vegas.) They have some excellent information on the decomposition cycle sprinkled throughout the episodes.

Some additional environmental factors to keep in mind (along similar lines to what justvinnie stated):

- weather (humid, moist conditions will spead up decomposition, whereas dry, cold conditions will slow it down.)

- soil/environment (could include dust particulates in the air) - high saline content material, especial in dry (and possibly cold) conditions, will suck the moisture from the body, preventing decomposition.

- naturally occuring preservatives (usually, but not limited to, bogs, and similar bodies of water) will preserve bodies (see Bog-men and there was a mummy in China preserved in a similar manner.)

Here's a short primer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mummy#Mummies...r_civilizations

suggest reading on the section linked, and the next section (naturally occuring mummies.)

Quick question: the engineered plants on the artificially created planet - how do they pollinate each other without insects?

[promethuem5]

Everyone else has got your decomp question answered, but one last tip... the spontaneous maggot thing you're thinking of is a very old theory (I want to say medieval or slightly thereafter) of spontaneous generation, wherein people thought things like maggots did appear out of decomposing matter, but if you put a piece of something like raw meat in a SEALED jar, it will decomp from bacteria, but no maggots or flies will appear bc/ they cannot get inside the jar... they are ATTRACTED to decomp, but don't come from it.

Hope your writing prokect goes well... is wriitng scripts themselves a new thing for you as an artist, or have you always written the stuff? (I can't remeber off hand if you did the writing for Tag and Blink or just the art.)

[Phyrox]

Quick question: the engineered plants on the artificially created planet - how do they pollinate each other without insects?

I would imagine the people would take care of that. Or you just rely on the species that don't include insect polination in their reproductive cycle. Not an insurmountable problem.

[justvinnie]

I would imagine the people would take care of that. Or you just rely on the species that don't include insect polination in their reproductive cycle. Not an insurmountable problem.

Many species of plants are self fertile. Others use wind to pollinate. Ever had a nice dusting of pine pollen on your car? Lastly some plants reproduce vegetatively (think strawberries and runners or the spiderplant). Oh yeah decomposition doesn't necessarily have to be mediated by microflora either. Everything degrades naturally as a part of the entropic process. It's just faster with microbes.

Having said that, if you would to terraform a planet, it would be in your best interest to have all forms of microbes there to quickly cycle nutrients. Otherwise the terraforming process would take much longer. Of course introducing mircobes is quite easy since all you really have to do is step out planetside. Your normal flora (the microbes on you) would just spread naturally. That's why I said the mere presence of our buddy on the planet would indicate that there are such organisms there already.

[Macross73]

the body is full of bacteria , so the bacteria in our bodies would help in the decomposition.

[Lonely Soldier Boy]

I would imagine the people would take care of that. Or you just rely on the species that don't include insect polination in their reproductive cycle. Not an insurmountable problem.

That's what I thought. Theoretically you just have to pick as many species of plants and trees that can pollinate without the need of help from other species, and make them stronger, more adaptable and faster growing.

[Lonely Soldier Boy]

Having said that, if you would to terraform a planet, it would be in your best interest to have all forms of microbes there to quickly cycle nutrients.

That I haven't thought of. It's a good idea to have the planet filled with all kinds of previously selected microbes. Thanks for the tip.

[Lonely Soldier Boy]

Everyone else has got your decomp question answered, but one last tip... the spontaneous maggot thing you're thinking of is a very old theory (I want to say medieval or slightly thereafter) of spontaneous generation, wherein people thought things like maggots did appear out of decomposing matter, but if you put a piece of something like raw meat in a SEALED jar, it will decomp from bacteria, but no maggots or flies will appear bc/ they cannot get inside the jar... they are ATTRACTED to decomp, but don't come from it.

Hope your writing prokect goes well... is wriitng scripts themselves a new thing for you as an artist, or have you always written the stuff? (I can't remeber off hand if you did the writing for Tag and Blink or just the art.)

Thanks, dude.

Thanks to both, EXO and you for the flies bit. I didn't know that. I remeber when I was a kid a friend of mine who had a dog, told me that he found a piece of meat cleanning up the balcony. The meat was full of maggots, but it was nowhere near the dirt, so I always wondered. I never really thought that they appeared spontaneously, but honestly I had no idea where they come from. Hence the question.

I love writing, but this is gonna be my first 4 issue miniseries (my editor is having a tough time revising it, by the way). T&B was written by Kevin "Troops" Rubio.

[sketchley]

Thanks. Here in Japan, there are a plethora of "largish" bugs, but hayfever is such a problem, that it actually creates an economic impact (and local governments talking about axing a few pine trees within city limits.)

So yeah, one of those hidden in plain sight thingies...

[Lonely Soldier Boy]

Well I can't really help you too much on the pure science angle, I can however give you some food for thought from the investigative angle. It's been a while since I've worked a crime scene so bear with me.

How did the guy die?

I mean if he had a heart attack and keeled over is going to be a different ballgame than if he was beheaded or ate his own gun from the depression of being on the planet too long.

Lots of variables here in terms of length of breakdown. What kind of surface did the dude die on? What kind of temperature are we talking about? Wind? Has it rained recently? Will it rain again soon? How was his body covered? (i.e. in a full on space suit? In flip flops and shorts?) Is his body sheltered by natural objects like rocks and trees or halfway into a ditch? How old was he? Size of the guy? Was he overweight? What was his diet like? (Meat eaters tend to have more impacted matter/feces/undigested food in their colons, hence more bacteria) Did he starve to death? (This would be tantamount to water fasting, which would flush out a great deal of the bacteria in him before death and might slow the process down, albeit probably incrementally.) How long before his friend found him? What did his friend do once he found the body? Did he bury it? Did he just leave it out of fear and shock?

Are there insects on the planet? What kind of insects are we talking about here? Once that guy dies, his waste functions let loose. That attracts bugs.

Even if you had no insects at all, your colon is chock full of bacteria. As soon as your cells clocked out, that bacteria would go to town like a fat man at a buffet table.

Short answer, yes he would decompose, but the time table would be extremely variable given non Earth conditions.

I can't give you better science, I'm a knuckledragger, but I can give you better plot

A) What if the guy died but didn't decompose at all? (You could squeeze all kinds of Fountain of Youth scenarios out of that one)

B) What if the guy died and a scavenger or host of them , a pretty deadly one, came out of the woodwork looking for the body? (Armor plated man eating cockroaches rock )

Hey, DeathHammer. Thanks for your interest. I'd love to answer all your questions out of fun (and believe it or not I have answers for all of them), but then I'll have to kill you

I can PM you the answers if you insist, but I think I have all the material I need for my script.

Hey, you have some cool ideas yourself there! Haven't you thought on become a writer? I bet you have lots to write about.

[EXO]

Short answer, yes he would decompose, but the time table would be extremely variable given non Earth conditions.

I can't give you better science, I'm a knuckledragger, but I can give you better plot

A) What if the guy died but didn't decompose at all? (You could squeeze all kinds of Fountain of Youth scenarios out of that one)

B) What if the guy died and a scavenger or host of them , a pretty deadly one, came out of the woodwork looking for the body? (Armor plated man eating cockroaches rock )

A better plot? You don't even have an idea what he's writing about and you're already critizising it? No wonder you always have a problem with Battlestar.

I think the question has been answered, everything passed the post where he thanked everyone is just reiteration. At this point we're just impeding on creativity. Topic closed.