Ace Combat 6:Skies of Liberation for XBOX360!

[David Hingtgen]

Downloadable planes are already up at XBL apparently. 200pts each. Dilemma dilemma---download everything, only to have my 360 die and have to buy them all again? Or sit back and watch everyone else use the new paint schemes... I'd buy 1 or 2 *really* cool planes regardless.

[JsARCLIGHT]

If they are downloaded to your hard drive and your Xbox dies, what prevents you from simply pulling off your hard drive and putting it onto your new Xbox? Admittedly I've never had mine die but from what I understand you don't lose anything... it's all on your hard drive and you can pop that thing on and off like a big memory card.

[mikeszekely]

If they are downloaded to your hard drive and your Xbox dies, what prevents you from simply pulling off your hard drive and putting it onto your new Xbox? Admittedly I've never had mine die but from what I understand you don't lose anything... it's all on your hard drive and you can pop that thing on and off like a big memory card.

Not to mention, everything is tied to your Gamertag. Even if your 360 exploded and the hard drive was blasted into space, recover your Gamertag on your new 360 and you can re-download everything for free.

Are the downloadable planes actual extras, or is it like NFS where you could pay to unlock a car that you'd get if you took the time to play the game anyway? Any good ones? I'd guess the F-22 is in the game anyway. I know you're a YF-23 man, David, and I do respect that... but I love me some Raptor.

[David Hingtgen]

I thought downloadable content that you pay for is console-registered. I'm sure XBL arcade games are. Is it JUST games? (Have read many reports of people having to sign into XBL every time to "verify" arcade games they own, because they're on their 2nd/3rd console, and the system knows that the HD/game is on a different console than it was originally downloaded to and won't allow it to be used unless it gets confirmation from XBL) Will have to check for similar things with Oblivion's expansion packs.

For a lot of things, simply swapping HD's will not be sufficient--the console and MS know what exact serial number was the original console to download it.

As for the planes---new paint schemes with different stats. Trade speed for payload, etc.

::edit:: Here's what Wikipedia says:

<<<<<<<<<<<<<[edit] Problems with replacement consoles

Per Marketplace design, the digital rights management license for downloaded content is tied to both a specific user, as well as to a specific console. This means that to access the content, the user either needs to be signed on to Xbox Live using their Gamertag, or be playing on the original console the content was purchased on.[3]

As a result, users with replacement consoles (either as a result of a warranty claim, or due to an upgrade to the Xbox 360 Elite model) cannot use the content they have downloaded without being connected to Xbox Live. This has the effect of restricting usage of purchased content when no Internet connection is available. Currently (Sept 2007), Microsoft has no procedure for transferring ownership between consoles. However, if the replacement was due to a warranty issue, users can contact XBox support to receive a refund of the points necessary to buy the content again on the new console, removing the internet connection requirement.

Also for some users if they had multiple accounts in one hard drive the downloaded content bought by one account would be shared with all the others. Meaning if account "A" downloaded something account "B" and "B" will and etc would also have the content. If your console is then sent to repair the other accounts will lose the downloaded content and the original account that downloaded it will be the only one able to use and even so it has the limitation of only working when online>>>>>>>>>>>

In essence, you're either screwed, or seriously inconvenienced if you get a new console after downloading stuff. I don't want to have to get my 50ft ethernet cable and hook up to the net (and disconnect my PC and cable modem) every time I want to fly a certain paint scheme in AC6. (It's part of the reason I only have ever bought 150pts of stuff on XBL---I don't want to lose stuff, as I *will* upgrade my console as soon as I can get a cool/quiet one---or maybe mine will die as it doesn't have the newer heatsink)

And I doubt it's easy to get MS to pay you back pts to re-download everything.

[Chowser]

D/Ls are gamertag specific.

After getting my "refurb" 360, I stuck the old hard drive back on it with everything on it.

After my wife got me the Halo edition 360 as a surprise, I recovered my gamertag to it and was able to d/l all the stuff I had in the past to the new one with no problems.

My gamertag is still on both systems.

I'll have to try and recover my gamertag on my brother's 360 one day and see if I can d/l stuff onto his HD.

Now, I haven't tried to play the D/L'ed stuff on another gamertag, but I figured they were game specific. I know the maps for Gears and Halo 2 were not gamertag specific.

----

I have d/l'ed some add-ons for Oblivion on my console. I will run downstairs tomorrow and see if I can d/l them again for free on my son's console.

He's asleep now and has his door locked, I don't feel like picking it.

Edited October 24, 2007 by Chowser

[Uxi]

So what's the story on this flightstick? Will my Saitek X35/36 work with the 360 (looks identical except for the goofy Xbox colors)... Obviously I expect my Thrustmaster Cougar to blow it away...

[TheLoneWolf]

I have d/l'ed some add-ons for Oblivion on my console. I will run downstairs tomorrow and see if I can d/l them again for free on my son's console.

Good question. I think 360 add-ons are just gamertag specific. Chowser, if you can download the add-ons for free on your son's console could you also see if you can access them if the 360 isn't online?

Xbox Live Arcade games are another story, they're console and gamertag specific. If you paid for and downloaded, say Contra, then your xbox died the next month, you'd need to slap your old hard drive on your replacement system. The game will still be stored on the old hard drive but you won't be able to play Contra on your new console until you sign in to Xbox Live with your gamertag. Sadly you'll have to do this each time you want to play Contra from then on. I guess Microsoft doesn't want people selling hard drives loaded with games.

[Valkyrie]

So I got the AC6 flightstick bundle today. Pretty good game so far. But I have issues with the flightstick...

First and foremost, the hat stick that moves the camera seems to be off calibration or something. It constantly has me looking off to the left. I've only been able to fix the problem well enough to make the game playable by using a rubber band the pull the stick to the right a bit, bringing the HUD more or less to center.

Also, it seems like the stick isn't as sensitive as it should be. I mean, you pull the stick back a little, you expect it to pitch up a little, right? Nope. There's a lot of 'dead space' around the stick's center, and you need to move it way too much to get that slight movement you're after. And, of course, there's no sensitivity setting to change. Which brings me to my final point...

It seems like, just like with the PS2 games, the flightstick is a bit of an afterthought. There are no options for it in-game, and it works merely by emulating the functions of the PS2/360 controllers. Once again, the manual doesn't even mention the flightstick. The button layout is only printed on the box.

For (what amounts to) a $90 stick, I'm pretty disappointed.

[VT 1010]

You might be able to redownload purchased items via the Download Section of Account Management in the Marketplace blade. I'm quite curious about paint schemes and the like though. I plan to migrate most of my saves over to my replacement Elite. I don't want to repurchase all of the extra content.

Valkyrie, how is the game itself? Is it as good as the last one?

[Apollo Leader]

Regarding DLC and moving your hard drive to another 360, everything will work as long as you have an online connection. If your system becomes disconnected from XBL, any maps, themes, gamer pics, etc. that you bought with under your Gamertag will become unplayable. When I got my refurbished 360, MS had me delete the maps and stuff I had downloaded as Apollo Leader, had me creat a second XBL account (a Silver membership), and they gave me plenty of points to redownload all the stuff I needed to reload using my second account.

Back on subject, what's the story with the faceplates? Is there one that's packed with the system? Is it the same as one of the ones you get to pick from? I should be picking mine up this evening.

[TheLoneWolf]

When I got my refurbished 360, MS had me delete the maps and stuff I had downloaded as Apollo Leader, had me creat a second XBL account (a Silver membership), and they gave me plenty of points to redownload all the stuff I needed to reload using my second account.

That's what I call customer service.

[Hikuro]

So I got the AC6 flightstick bundle today. Pretty good game so far. But I have issues with the flightstick...

First and foremost, the hat stick that moves the camera seems to be off calibration or something. It constantly has me looking off to the left. I've only been able to fix the problem well enough to make the game playable by using a rubber band the pull the stick to the right a bit, bringing the HUD more or less to center.

Also, it seems like the stick isn't as sensitive as it should be. I mean, you pull the stick back a little, you expect it to pitch up a little, right? Nope. There's a lot of 'dead space' around the stick's center, and you need to move it way too much to get that slight movement you're after. And, of course, there's no sensitivity setting to change. Which brings me to my final point...

It seems like, just like with the PS2 games, the flightstick is a bit of an afterthought. There are no options for it in-game, and it works merely by emulating the functions of the PS2/360 controllers. Once again, the manual doesn't even mention the flightstick. The button layout is only printed on the box.

For (what amounts to) a $90 stick, I'm pretty disappointed.

Wow I never had anything like that with any HATS controler, even when I had the AC5 bundle...heh regret getting rid of that sooooo much.

Still...I wish they had the HATS style that I saw at fry's that had all sorts of funky buttons and even a flip case on the missile fire so youdon't "Accidentally" fire off a missile....yeah.....that'd be fun.

[mikeszekely]

Regarding DLC and moving your hard drive to another 360, everything will work as long as you have an online connection. If your system becomes disconnected from XBL, any maps, themes, gamer pics, etc. that you bought with under your Gamertag will become unplayable. When I got my refurbished 360, MS had me delete the maps and stuff I had downloaded as Apollo Leader, had me creat a second XBL account (a Silver membership), and they gave me plenty of points to redownload all the stuff I needed to reload using my second account.

Back on subject, what's the story with the faceplates? Is there one that's packed with the system? Is it the same as one of the ones you get to pick from? I should be picking mine up this evening.

My former employees at Gamestop are saying that there was a shipping issue, so even though you can get the game now, the faceplates won't be in until later this week.

[David Hingtgen]

Got my pre-order face plate, saw all 4.

Went to the mall to get lunch and the game. There were 4 pre-orders, and only 4 plates. Luckily we got all 4 different plates and I was first so got to pick.

F-15E, A-10, Tornado IDS, Sea Flanker. Not surprised at the choices, they're the "stars" of the game. Went with the F-15 as I thought it had a better "background" than the Tornado and worked the best horizontally. (The A-10 is a very "vertical" plate, the Sea Flanker is what I've been staring at on my 360's theme for a month) F-15E has blue-pink "dawn" background, Tornado is pure blue. A-10 is white/pink "dawn/sun-rays", Sea Flanker--can't remember.

So is it just the flightstick plate that's delayed? Hmmn, if they ship separately and there's extras I may be able to snag one.

PS---this is the first game I've got that seems to be a US/Canadian English/French version. The manual is doublesized--one English, one French. And the back of the case has everything in French too. New MS thing, new Namco thing?

[David Hingtgen]

C'mon guys, it's midnight--somebody post they got it/played it etc.

Quick review: Lacks the "heart" of others. No plot in the missions/briefings IMHO. AC 4/5/0 (especially 5) had stuff happen during the missions, each mission was as important to the plot as the cut scenes. Nothing like that here. "Blow up this, blow up that". Maybe the final missions will start tying in, but they blew a PERFECT opportunity for mission 6 or so to start meshing with the cut scenes, or have a "this is important" moment. (Well OK, the opening mission is a plot/event mission, but haven't seen one since)

A LOT of achievements are online, including the vast majority of points. Well, I have a 1-month Gold card for Live, and Mass Effect comes out in 1 month.

PS---I think we should also list gamertags in this thread, for people who specifically intend to be online soon playing AC6. I'll start:

David Hingtgen--- Xenogears Id (and I just found a cool fighter-chick avatar to use too)

[deadghost]

nevermind.

Edited October 25, 2007 by deadghost

[mikeszekely]

C'mon guys, it's midnight--somebody post they got it/played it etc.

Quick review: Lacks the "heart" of others. No plot in the missions/briefings IMHO. AC 4/5/0 (especially 5) had stuff happen during the missions, each mission was as important to the plot as the cut scenes. Nothing like that here. "Blow up this, blow up that". Maybe the final missions will start tying in, but they blew a PERFECT opportunity for mission 6 or so to start meshing with the cut scenes, or have a "this is important" moment. (Well OK, the opening mission is a plot/event mission, but haven't seen one since)

A LOT of achievements are online, including the vast majority of points. Well, I have a 1-month Gold card for Live, and Mass Effect comes out in 1 month.

PS---I think we should also list gamertags in this thread, for people who specifically intend to be online soon playing AC6. I'll start:

David Hingtgen--- Xenogears Id (and I just found a cool fighter-chick avatar to use too)

mikeszekely--- Pharaohman. If you send me a friend invite, please mention that you're from Macross World, otherwise I might reject you.

David, I pretty much agree with your review so far. Even the cutscenes don't feel like they're telling me a lot of story. The cutscenes in 5 and Zero (and X, if you've never played the PSP AC) were all directly relevant to the main character(s). And while the cutscenes in 4 were from a bystander's POV, they focused on the main character's rival ace. So far (I'm up to, but haven't played, mission 6) the cutscenes have been largely irrelevant. I mean, the opening scene, sure, but the rest of the cutscenes I've seen have been about disparate characters affected by the war and their feelings toward the whole mess, but really have nothing to do with Garuda and what they're doing.

I also don't feel like planes are opening fast enough. I have a feeling that this Ace Combat will end up being somewhat shorter than the previous ones, but six missions in I only have four planes (and even then, I'm still inclined to keep taking the F-16, although I think I'll grudgingly take the Mirage 2000-5 on my next sortie). There also seem to be fewer slots available, making me think there's going to be fewer planes to fly. I guess it takes longer to render an individual plane with as much detail as they're using, but it really just makes me crave Ace Combat 7, since they can use the same engine and focus on adding more planes.

The missions themselves are a little dull. Fly around, and shoot some crap so the ground forces can do their thing. That's pretty disappointing coming off Ace Combat 5, which had A LOT of variety in the missions. I think part of the problem is the scale. You can tell that the developers wanted to take advantage of the 360's extra horsepower to fill the sky with enemies and allies alike... but some of the best moments in Ace Combat 5 were when it was just Wardog/Razgriz alone against the enemy.

It's hard to complain too much, though. I do like the addition of high-G turns, airbases on the map on not just past the return line, and the bit about your missiles being smarter when you fly in a friendly ESM cloud. And while you don't necessarily get that "ace against the enemy" feeling, you're trading it for a sheer mass of chaos and explosions. Everything in the game is gorgeous... the planes, the contrails from your missiles, the explosions, and the scenery.

At the end of the day, I do kind of wish the game were a little more like Ace Combat 5, but Ace Combat 5 and Zero both came later in the PS2's life cycle. I think it's more fair to compare 6 to 4, and indeed, I see a lot more similarity there. I'm going to enjoy 6 for what it is- a solid entry in the Ace Combat franchise, but not the best. And there's always hope that the effort put into 6 will pay off later with a 7th Ace Combat.

[GunnerX]

How's the music compared to 4/5/Zero? Any "Unsung War" like themes?

[Apollo Leader]

F-15E, A-10, Tornado IDS, Sea Flanker. Not surprised at the choices, they're the "stars" of the game. Went with the F-15 as I thought it had a better "background" than the Tornado and worked the best horizontally. (The A-10 is a very "vertical" plate, the Sea Flanker is what I've been staring at on my 360's theme for a month) F-15E has blue-pink "dawn" background, Tornado is pure blue. A-10 is white/pink "dawn/sun-rays", Sea Flanker--can't remember.

Lucky me was able to score BOTH the Eagle and Flanker faceplates last night. Anyway did get the full blown package so it should also have that extra Eagle faceplate inside too.

Didn't have the time to play it last night. Anyone here on Macross World want to play online either against each other as a team?

[VT 1010]

I finally picked up AC6 with the flightstick last night. I agree with many of the previous statements. It isn't quite as good as the previous games in the series. It by no means bad, it's just that the other games were a little better. You don't get that same immersion in the story during the missions. You also feel a little less like the uber-ace you normally were in the last games. That said, it's still a very fun game. I wouldn't be too surprised if we're nickel and dimed with more planes and paint schemes. I already broke down and bought the current ones. I wonder if they might release missions too.

The flightstick is a little stiff and not very sensitive. Despite that, control is a little more precise. It's especially nice to have vibration in the stick. The faceplate included in the box has an F-15 being chased by (I think) Flankers on a blue sky backround. It would look great with a blue 360.

BTW, my gamertag is ROU21. Has anybody played online yet?

[Apollo Leader]

You've been added to the master list in the 360 thread.

[Ladic]

grrrrr, waiting for Toys R us to get this in stock

[yellowlightman]

Are all the Ace Combat games this boring? AC6 is the first game in the series I've played and I'm thoroughly underwhelmed. It's pretty as all heck, but the gameplay is about as exciting as watching paint dry. The retarded missions don't help either, "Here, pick which objective you want to take out although it doesn't matter because you'll have to do it all anyways."

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

I agree with lack of immersion in the story. What I hate, are the constant references to dancing with angels, and the reoccuring theme in ace combat of your character developing into a demigod of dogfighting. At the cutscene prior to mission 7 you'll hear the characters speak highly of you.

Replays are AMAZING. I complained about the replays in 5, and they were marginally better in zero, but in 6, they are excellent. Using the throttle to speed up, and slow down replays is a great feature. The replays here are a lot better than 4. Ace Combat 4 had an alright replay viewer, but its nowhere near as good as 6's.

How's the music compared to 4/5/Zero?

Similar, its done by the same music team as those games.

The mission briefings were done a LOT better in Ace Combat zero.

The music in this one is on par with previous games, I like music played when you choose your plane prior to launching.

[David Hingtgen]

Are all the Ace Combat games this boring?

Nope, this is the most boring one in years. 4/5/0 are FAR more interesting. 4's a step below 5 and 0 for "involvement" but I do love 4's story.

As for music--nothing notable yet besides the main/first mission theme.

I'll complain about "hard to read". This game REALLY wants an HDTV. It's in widescreen, and on a 20in TV that means each letter on the HUD is about 2 pixels high. I'm worrying about Mass Effect now, as the demo disc has some pretty small fonts.

"We played it on a normal TV and it's fine"---if you used a 37in, doesn't mean it'll be OK on a bedroom 20in.

Overall, I think they spent ALL the money on trying to make super-detailed stuff, and kinda skimped on everything else.

PS--regarding immersion----there's actually too many planes now. In 4 and 5, you could easily "follow along" on ground missions---see people, help them out. Now---"there's a transport leaving the field, protect it"----that field may be WAY far away, and there's 500 other planes----it took some 6 mins, but I never found it and it was shot down. There's so many things you feel disconnected from everything.

[mikeszekely]

Nope, this is the most boring one in years. 4/5/0 are FAR more interesting. 4's a step below 5 and 0 for "involvement" but I do love 4's story.

As for music--nothing notable yet besides the main/first mission theme.

I'll complain about "hard to read". This game REALLY wants an HDTV. It's in widescreen, and on a 20in TV that means each letter on the HUD is about 2 pixels high. I'm worrying about Mass Effect now, as the demo disc has some pretty small fonts.

"We played it on a normal TV and it's fine"---if you used a 37in, doesn't mean it'll be OK on a bedroom 20in.

Overall, I think they spent ALL the money on trying to make super-detailed stuff, and kinda skimped on everything else.

PS--regarding immersion----there's actually too many planes now. In 4 and 5, you could easily "follow along" on ground missions---see people, help them out. Now---"there's a transport leaving the field, protect it"----that field may be WAY far away, and there's 500 other planes----it took some 6 mins, but I never found it and it was shot down. There's so many things you feel disconnected from everything.

Absolutely agree. And it's not just that there's too many enemy planes, there's too many period. And unless you specifically order them to do something useful, they're useless. Get rid of the entire air force and go back to four wingmen, with the "Disperse" and "Special" commands.

In any case, like I already said, 5 and 0 offered a lot more in the way of mission variety and story than 4, and I think a lot of it was that 4 was kind of laying the groundwork. Groundwork laid, Project Aces could focus on other stuff. I think it's the same case here... 6 is PA learning the ropes, 7 will kick ass.

[David Hingtgen]

True, the dedicated wingmen were far better. Also, I'm starting to (lazily) fall into a pattern:

Do all the work myself, as allies shoot down maybe 1 plane per hour. That's the first half of the mission. Then there's the 2nd half with "new enemy planes" etc---but now your "ally bar" is full to blue, so you use it---and the entire air force materializes out of nowhere and vaporizes everything with a million missiles in a few seconds. Mission complete, with "friends" counting for 50% of the kills.

[JsARCLIGHT]

I haven't gotten around to buying it yet but is AC6 possibly a case of what I call the "modern video game blahze" in which the one player game is cobbled together hastily and is overall "meh" but the multiplayer is where all the time and effort was spent?

[David Hingtgen]

Maybe, haven't been online yet. (I keep wondering if I should hold off until I'm "really good" again, with awesome planes--or take what I have now, while there's lots of newbs with just F-16's out there)

PS---I just bought (but haven't used) the Strike Eagle, and there's no longer a need for the F-15C. It offers a pure air-to-air configuration, with 6-at-a-time AMRAAMs. Yeah.

[mikeszekely]

Flying fighters in tunnels... that's never been done before

I overheard someone, I think Ghost Eye, say that in Mission 10. The developers have a sense of irony, it seems.

[Apollo Leader]

I don't think anyone has mentioned the one thing (besides the current gen graphics, etc.) that makes this version of AC stand out from all the other... online play! Has anyone here play it matches online yet? I admit as usual I'm behind on playing new games I've bought like days, weeks, months, even years ago! I did have the chance to open the box and take a look inside last night. Plan on firing it up tonight or sometime this weekend.

So who here wants a little AC6 online action?

[mikeszekely]

I don't think anyone has mentioned the one thing (besides the current gen graphics, etc.) that makes this version of AC stand out from all the other... online play! Has anyone here play it matches online yet? I admit as usual I'm behind on playing new games I've bought like days, weeks, months, even years ago! I did have the chance to open the box and take a look inside last night. Plan on firing it up tonight or sometime this weekend.

So who here wants a little AC6 online action?

I haven't played online, been trying to get through the campaign. And I don't care how good the online is (if it even turns out to be good), good online doesn't make up for shoddy single player. After finishing mission 13, without giving away any spoilers, I'll just say that the game is definitely the worst since Air Combat, and I feel bad for people jumping into the series now, because they're never going to know how good the series actually is.

[David Hingtgen]

I just beat 13 (with the Strike Eagle, 'cuz it's on the box art)---wondering what's going to be in the next 2 missions or so (assuming it's a 15 mission game).

[Chowser]

ack, finally got to GameStop today to pick up my Ace Combat and F15 faceplate. Guess I will be sticking that faceplate next to all the other unused faceplates in my house

on another note,

I was able to D/L the addon packs to Oblivion on my son's 360 without paying again as long as I did it on my Gamertag. However, I was unable to access them using his gamertag, so they might be gamertag specific.

Now I need to move my account back to my 360 so I can play Ace Combat tonight.

[Uxi]

So what's the story on this flightstick? Will my Saitek X35/36 work with the 360 (looks identical except for the goofy Xbox colors)... Obviously I expect my Thrustmaster Cougar to blow it away...

Anyone?