The Watchmen

[miles316]

I caught the movie last night. I guess I got the non-mosaic Dr. M version. I didn't even know they were doing that until I read this thread...

I thought it was okay, but hollow. It reproduced the look of the comic without all the depth.

Was the one you went to rated R.

[mikeszekely]

Was the one you went to rated R.

Can't speak for magicsp00n, but the one I saw, glowing blue dicks and all, was R-rated.

I can't say for sure, since I didn't read any of the source material for them, but I've hated every movie based on Alan Moore's writing, and I'm starting to think it's not just because they're poor adaptations. Moore's run on WildC.A.T.s pretty much ruined the book, and I'm beginning to think Moore's overrated at best.

[Gubaba]

Can't speak for magicsp00n, but the one I saw, glowing blue dicks and all, was R-rated.

I can't say for sure, since I didn't read any of the source material for them, but I've hated every movie based on Alan Moore's writing, and I'm starting to think it's not just because they're poor adaptations. Moore's run on WildC.A.T.s pretty much ruined the book, and I'm beginning to think Moore's overrated at best.

There's a HUGE difference between Moore's work on something like WildC.A.T.s (or Spawn, or Batman) and his other work. "From Hell" is, I believe, among the finest comics ever made, and the best treatment of Jack the Ripper in any medium. The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen is likewise stellar. (I thought Promethea was quite excellent as well, but I can understand why a lot of people lost patience with it.)

The problem is that no matter how many times people say his work is cinematic, it really isn't. It's too long, it's too dense, and most of the things that are most characteristic and clever in his work are impossible to translate to film.

Anyway, judging a writer based on movie adaptations is like judging a director based on novelizations of his or her movies. No one's been able to make a good movie based on James Joyce's work, either. Does that make him a bad writer?

[Evil Porkchop]

There's a HUGE difference between Moore's work on something like WildC.A.T.s (or Spawn, or Batman) and his other work. "From Hell" is, I believe, among the finest comics ever made, and the best treatment of Jack the Ripper in any medium. The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen is likewise stellar. (I thought Promethea was quite excellent as well, but I can understand why a lot of people lost patience with it.)

The problem is that no matter how many times people say his work is cinematic, it really isn't. It's too long, it's too dense, and most of the things that are most characteristic and clever in his work are impossible to translate to film.

Anyway, judging a writer based on movie adaptations is like judging a director based on novelizations of his or her movies. No one's been able to make a good movie based on James Joyce's work, either. Does that make him a bad writer?

Just want to say that I completely agree with your assessment of Moore's comic book work and the rather pathetic attempts to adapt them to the cinematic medium. Moore is a genius of comic book writing and his work has inspired a generation of writers. Just because his work doesn't translate to the big screen does not make it bad. Moore has continually insisted that his work doesn't translate and people continue to refuse to believe him.

[dreamweaver13]

How do i begin...

The movie was ok. enjoyable, if only for the fact that i'm actually seeing the Watchmen on the big screen. i particularly liked the history-intro. i think it could have been better as a 2 hour movie, and they could have removed some parts without really ruining the movie that much. However, if the DVD is indeed the director's cut worth more than 3 hours, i'm definitely seeing it, if only to see how much more of the comics gets fit into the movie, and to see the Tales of the Black Freighter short animated movie.

But... i am evaluating it as a movie. as far as movies go, it's still better than a lot out there. Yes, it's generally loyal to the comics, but some of the nuances, mood and substance of the comics got lost in the translation. So i won't even attempt to evaluate the movie vis-a-vis the graphic novel. it's just too diffferent. Moore was absolutely right -- Watchmen is unfilmable. But Snyder did the best job possible, i think.

In short, I will remember with fondness, and with a sense of history, the first time I ever read the Watchmen comics. The movie... is just another good movie. But I will not condemn the movie for failing to translate what made Watchmen so special because, frankly speaking, I never expected it to.

Ah, but there lies the rub. What made Watchmen so special was the way it made me think and feel, and the unique point of view it presented. If i don't go into a movie expecting that much, then why bother?

Oh well... movies can't be masterpieces all the time, can it?

[Max Jenius]

I think they could have pulled off the original ending.

Other than that, it was pretty spot on. The Silk Spectre II was kind of wooden though. Rorschach was the best, great casting as well. Besides the Silk Spectre II, it was spot on. It dragged a little, but I think I agree with Alan Moore that it was better when I was able to read it at my leisure in a comfy chair by the fire.

Still, it's a great flick. 4/5 for me. Read the comic, and thought it was a good adaptation. I don't think it says much of the director that he can imitate comic frames, but you gotta appreciate his respect for the source.

Oh yeah... what was the song playing during Doc Manhattan's arrival on mars/montage?

Edited March 9, 2009 by Max Jenius

[Graham]

Opens here on March 12. Will be seeing it on March 13.

Graham

[mikeszekely]

Anyway, judging a writer based on movie adaptations is like judging a director based on novelizations of his or her movies. No one's been able to make a good movie based on James Joyce's work, either. Does that make him a bad writer?

I don't know, and for all I know, I might not like James Joyce's work. I'm not familiar.

But I freely admit in my original post that I couldn't say for sure; I'm just beginning to suspect it's the case. I have a copy of the Watchmen graphic novel. I intend to read it before I pass judgment on any more than the movie version of the Watchmen.

[Graham]

Wow, can't belive it's 23 years since I first read Watchmen. Where does time go?

Graham

[Uxi]

The reason I found it disturbing was because it was a real event.

[Mr March]

No botched film adaptations will ever devalue the work of Alan Moore. I'll always treasure The Killing Joke, V For Vendetta and Watchmen as some of the best comic books ever made. As for Watchmen, the graphic novel made it to where it now stands years before the film adaptation came along and years from now, the Watchmen book will still have it's vaunted place in history. We'll have to see how the film stands up to time, always the harshest critic

Edited March 9, 2009 by Mr March

[taksraven]

Your right I should have looked harder, but it still is disgusting. The reason I found it disturbing was because it was a real event. I am surprised that the Kennedy family did not slap Warner Brothers and DC with a law suit.

There isn't much of the Kennedy family left to sue Warners and DC.

The assassination was not nice, I will admit, but in all honesty, as others have observed if Kennedy NOT been assassinated chances are that his name as an American President would be absolute mud now as far as history is concerned. Since he died by the assassins bullet people have been inclined to deify him to a ridiculous extent.

As far as the film taking the piss and having the Comedian blasting away from the grassy knoll, well I don't normally go for conspiracy theories but as far as I am concerned and looking at the minimal evidence available to us, strange things were certainly going on that day. Therefore, the filmmakers taking their own view of the events and replaying them does not bother me.

You probably won't like this either....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vASr9QwsUWg

or this (but this one is a pretty cool idea.....)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7ld8O-DlHM

Taksraven

[Mog]

Where's the "Watched the movie, intend to read the comic" option?

I kinda had a Cliff's Notes understanding/background on the comic, so I went into the movie knowing most of the main points and plots.

In a nutshell, I liked it.

Sure, I kinda wished they gave more details as to why Dr. M chose the hydrogen symbol instead of the typical atom symbol (as in the comic). And I know folks are annoyed about the comic-within-the-comic not being there.

But it seems to be a pretty solid film. At least the creative forces behind the film didn't try to put their own spin/their own message into the film ala V for Vendetta.

At the very least, the film makes me wanna read the comic/graphic novel even more.

Now whether I'll consider The Watchmen film to be a faithful adaptation to the comic book? I'll let you know once I pick up, read, and finish the comic.

P.S.--What the hell is up with "All Along the Watchtower" popping up again in another sci-fi/comic/genre series?

[taksraven]

P.S.--What the hell is up with "All Along the Watchtower" popping up again in another sci-fi/comic/genre series?

I think that Cohen's "Hallelujah" is much more overused. Gets a bit annoying. I could listen to Watchtower all day.

Taksraven

[Mog]

Just to clarify a bit, when I heard Hendrix's "Watchtower" in the theater, it actually gave me a big grin.

Must be the BSG freak in me.

[F-ZeroOne]

One of the most surprising things about the movie for me is that it has a soundtrack. Yes, I know that sounds rather bloody obvious, but when you've been used to reading the source material in silence for so long...

[Mr March]

One of the most surprising things about the movie for me is that it has a soundtrack. Yes, I know that sounds rather bloody obvious, but when you've been used to reading the source material in silence for so long...

Yeah, that's very true. But the Smashing Pumpkins in the trailer was pure genius and I've heard the soundtrack is great for the rest of the film. I'm currently re-reading Absolute Watchmen (on Chapter IV right now) and I'm going to see the film with friends on Wednesday. I want the book to be fresh in my mind before I see the film. It's been a few years

[miles316]

I liked when they used dawn of the Valkyries during the saluter of the Vietcong by DR Manhattan. A nice homage to full metal jacket.

Edited March 9, 2009 by miles316

[Grand Admiral]

Sure, I kinda wished they gave more details as to why Dr. M chose the hydrogen symbol instead of the typical atom symbol (as in the comic).

He has the hydrogen symbol on his forehead in the comic too.

Edited March 9, 2009 by Grand Admiral

[Totoro242]

**WARNING: SPOILERS**

**

**

For me, what kept this from being the greatest comic book movie of all time was the lack of payoff at the end.

Sure the ending was basically the same; Veidt is the mastermind behind a grand scheme to scare the world away from nuclear war. Our heroes find out and are too late to stop it. Rorschach will never surrender to living with the lie and is murdered by Dr Manhattan. The rest of the heroes accept the truth of the situation and move on with their lives.

The problem is in the delivery. I dont mind that they changed the facts around, but what it lacked was the punch in the gut you feel when the "reveal" happens in the comic and you turn the page. In the comic book Nite Owl and Rorschach crash in Antarctica and have to walk across the snow to Veidts fortress. During that time Veidt triggers his "disaster" and by the time our heroes confront him he reveals that he already killed all those people 35 minutes earlier. While they were walking. Cut to scenes of carnage and blood flowing in the streets. Very cinematic. Thats the best part of the book IMO. That sense of lost hope and total bleakness left a lasting impression. That misdirection with the use of clocks was brilliant. You think our heroes are going to stop it in time, but in fact they are so late in stopping it, its more on a scle of an epic failure.

The movie however, chose to dumb down the disaster to happen simultaneously with the "reveal" to the other chracters, thereby allowing them to show the disaster as it happens. Lame. Total cop-out IMO. I guess you are supposed to assume that the entire process took 35 minutes to initiate, but with so little background on the explosions, it was just just TOO convienient and fell flat IMO. Also, where was the carnage? Rivers of blood and heaped bodies? For me, turning that page and seeing the full effect and feeling that realization just as the characters did was the best part. Totally lacking in the movie.

Its probably just me. Maybe reading the Watchman and seeing the movie ruined it, but how much harder would it have been to just film that scene more like the comic?

Overall I still liked it, 8 out of 10 from me, but I will always watch it and think how it could have better. I hate that.

[gingaio]

I liked when they used dawn of the Valkyries during the saluter of the Vietcong by DR Manhattan. A nice homage to full metal jacket.

You mean Apocalypse Now?

It was a good musical reference ("Ride of the Valkyries"), as that movie's view on the Vietnam War was dark and decidedly non-heroic.

Edited March 9, 2009 by gingaio

[miles316]

You mean Apocalypse Now?

It was a good musical reference, as that movie's view on the Vietnam War was dark and decidedly non-heroic.

My bad. It has been a while since I have seen either of those movies. Sorry got them confused.

One thing that bothers me was that they let Ozimdize (sorry don't remember how they spelled it ) Douche bag live, and they killed Rorschach. Did they at lease give him a descent burial, or did they leave the poor bastard on the ice in Antarctica? Is DR, M incapable of killing people other than popping them like zits, or does he not care? Does the graphic novel handle thees events differently?

Edited March 9, 2009 by miles316

[Gubaba]

My bad. It has been a while since I have seen either of those movies. Sorry got them confused.

One thing that bothers me was that they let Ozimdize (sorry don't remember how they spelled it ) Douche bag live, and they killed Rorschach. Did they at lease give him a descent burial, or did they leave the poor bastard on the ice in Antarctica? Is DR, M incapable of killing people other than popping them like zits, or does he not care? Does the graphic novel handle thees events differently?

In the comic, yes, Ozymandias lives. Rorschach dies. A decent burial is out of the question; there isn't enough of him left.

And I'm sure Dr. Manhattan could kill anyone any way he wished. He's pretty much all-powerful, after all.

And yeah, while Adrian is indeed a douchebag, Rorschach is one, too. I think the Comedian is the only one douchier than either of them, and that's just because he's "a pig ann'a rapist."

[Alpha OTS]

I really enjoyed it, and given the source material don't think it could have been done better and still be cohesive in a two and a half hour movie.

Things that I really enjoyed:

- The soundtrack ruled. It fits, and it's in the right moments. I loved the ending credits song too!

- The opening montage stillshots of the original Minute Men. I was really surprised how much they included here, and I loved every second of it. I'm hoping for more in the extended dvd. Anyone catch the DaVinci reference?

- I couldn't ask for more from the casting. Rorschach, Nite Owl, Manattan and Comedian were perfect. Ozymandius was excellent. Silk Spectre 2 is probably the worst of the lot, but that's because the rest are so perfect. She's definitely good.

- The sets, outfits, atmosphere really couldn't get any more faithful. Yay Archie!

- The opening fight between Ozymandius and the Comedian is far better than the book. It had a very clever purpose though. To show *how* these people are heroes and not your average Joe. It really helped set the tone for the abilities of everyone else, and made it easier to believe when the heroes were doing extraordinary things elsewhere in the movie.

- The dialogue used was surprisingly faithful and direct. I expected a lot of changes here, but what is included is pretty much a direct translation of the book, especially Rorschach. There are some quibbles with some dialogue getting changed around so that other people were speaking it. This was pretty minor, and on thinking about it, necessary given the changes they made elsewhere. The money quotes are there though. "I'm not locked in here with you! You're locked in here with ME!"

- I liked how they played up Manhattan's god status. I was afraid this would get lost in the translation. Particularly I was worried the "They got the quote wrong. I didn't say the superman exists, and he is American. I said God exists, and He is American." line wouldn't make it at all, but it did, and in a perfectly delivered scene. The Vietnam "Ride of the Valkyries" scene(excellent soundtrack again, and a parody of an existing movie to boot!) really helped drive this home. One of my favorite parts of the book is a between-issue excerpt from an official report by a military analyst about how Manhattan's existence had actually accelerated the world towards nuclear war. I was happy to see that this theme was intregal to the movie.

- Because of the above, the altered timeline played out extremely well. This was another thing I thought for sure would get lost in translation. America wins Vietnam, Nixon's elected for a third term, and the cold war paranoia escalates. It makes sense in context of the movie.

Which leads into...

the changed ending. Instead of the squid, it's a Manhattan explosion in cities worldwide made to look like it was done intentionally by Manhattan himself out of spite for being exiled. I liked it...alot, and because of it the film succeeded where I thought for sure it would fail: in translating the book to a cohesive 2hr-ish movie. When you nix the squid, you are also able to nix more of the exotic Veidt conspriring, ie: the kidnapped writers & artists, the cloned psychic brain, and the genetic engineering. And without the writer, there's one less link to have the Black Freighter story in the movie. Having Bubastis in the movie actually makes *less* sense with this change. Part of his purpose in the book was to show the success of Veidt's genetic engineering program which made the squid. I was glad to see Bubastis there, but in the context of the movie, what purpose did he serve? He didn't even frustrate and hold Rorschach at bay, which was one of the best things about Bubastis in the book.

I did have two nitpicks...

I'm hardly a prude, but the sex scene went on WAY too fracking long to the point that I was rolling my eyes. It seemed like an exercise on how much they thought they could get away with instead of what is good storytelling. The subsequent fire burst lost a bit of its punchline because of it. It reminds me a lot of The Matrix Reloaded and its orgy scene. It pulls you out of the film, and you remember it for all the wrong reasons.

Rorschach's origin with the kidnapped girl played out differently. In the comic he handcuffs the kidnapper to the stove, hands him a cleaver, then sets the place on fire. Here he cleaves the guys head.....repeatedly. I know the point was to drive home how this incident had pushed him over the edge, but the original is actually more sinister and cinematic over going right for the gore to prove his psychosis.

And something I thought was extremely cool...

Rorschach left a blot behind! Appropriate! Was it me reading the blot, or did it resemble his signature?

The movie wasn't perfect, but I believe it's the best we could expect the graphic novel to be filmed. My fear was that they couldn't make it cohesive in the time alloted, but they did. I highly commend them for doing something I previously thought impossible. It doesn't replace the graphic novel, but it does compliment it. I'm really looking forward to the extended dvds.

[Mog]

He has the hydrogen symbol on his forehead in the comic too.

When I was skimming through the trade paperback a month or so ago, I saw that too. I think one of his buddies was trying to convince him to use the typical atomic symbol (the one with the atom and something like six electrons spinning around it), and Dr. M essentially said, "Screw that cheesy stereotype! I'm using this!"

Definitely loved that little touch in the comic and was kinda bummed they didn't expand on it more in the film.

[miles316]

In the comic, yes, Ozymandias lives. Rorschach dies. A decent burial is out of the question; there isn't enough of him left.

And I'm sure Dr. Manhattan could kill anyone any way he wished. He's pretty much all-powerful, after all.

And yeah, while Adrian is indeed a douchebag, Rorschach is one, too. I think the Comedian is the only one douchier than either of them, and that's just because he's "a pig ann'a rapist."

So a person that just kills and rapes is a worst douche than a man who orchestrated the deaths of millions. Let me rephrase with Rorschach did they give him a burial even if they just scraped some of his smearer off the ice of Antarctica to put in a casket.

Why is Adrian using a monochromatic MacIntosh computer in his office and Owl man has full color flat screens in the Owl ship. Adrian is the most powerful industrialist in the world why does he use black and wight computer screen where as a man who has been retired for years has flat screens.

Edited March 10, 2009 by miles316

[Gubaba]

So a person that just kills and rapes is a worst douche than a man who orchestrated the deaths of millions. Let me rephrase with Rorschach did they give him a burial even if they just scraped some of his smearer off the ice of Antarctica to put in a casket.

If you can explain how the Comedian's near-rape of Sally Jupiter averted the nuclear annihilation of the world, then yes, I'll agree that Adrian was the bigger douche.

[gingaio]

If you can explain how the Comedian's near-rape of Sally Jupiter averted the nuclear annihilation of the world, then yes, I'll agree that Adrian was the bigger douche.

[gingaio]

Why is Adrian using a monochromatic MacIntosh computer in his office and Owl man has full color flat screens in the Owl ship. Adrian is the most powerful industrialist in the world why does he use black and wight computer screen where as a man who has been retired for years has flat screens.

Maybe because Nite Owl II is both a playa and a pimp, whereas Ozymandias is only a pimp.

Saw the flick. It was a'ight.

[miles316]

If you can explain how the Comedian's near-rape of Sally Jupiter averted the nuclear annihilation of the world, then yes, I'll agree that Adrian was the bigger douche.

Adrian did not create his plan "to save the world" he did this for his own ends he wanted power.

It was his company that was rebuilding new York at the end of the movie.

Profiting from all those no bid contracts from the government hell he probably owned half of New York.

Their are alternatives than building bombs and blowing up a bunch of cities.

Adrian was supposed to be the smartest man in the world, and he could not have come up with a better plan than that.

This man was planing this for years he arranged to give cancer to three people that probably would have taken a couple of years and developing the infrastructure of his company not something some one can just pull out of his ass in the eleventh hour.

This was premeditated it would not surprise me if he was not conspiring with some one in Russia because I cant see him clandestinely building those Manhattan bombs in the middles of Moscow with out having KGB cooperation.

Alternatives to blowing up a bunch of city's would be to neutralize the worlds nuclear arsenal not just the soviets. I'm not talking about destroying them in the air, but while they are still in their silos.

With his powers DR Manhattan could appearer in the command and control bunkers of both sides disrupting communications between missiles and the command centers.

After he disabled the weapons control networks he could go to the individual missile silos and transport the warheads in to space or transmute the uranium or plutonium in to lead or some other inert metal rendering them useless.

This would remove the danger of nuclear war and send a terrifying message to the leaders of the world.

Edited March 10, 2009 by miles316

[Gubaba]

Adrian did not create his plan "to save the world" he did this for his own ends he wanted power.

It was his company that was rebuilding new York at the end of the movie.

Profiting from all those no bid contracts from the government hell he probably owned half of New York.

Their are alternatives than building bombs and blowing up a bunch of cities.

Adrian was supposed to be the smartest man in the world and he could not have come up with a better plan than that.

This man was planing this for years he arranged to give cancer to three people that probably would have taken a couple of years and developing the infrastructure of his company not something some one can just pull out of his ass in the eleventh hour.

This was premeditated it would not surprise me if he was not conspiring with Russians because I cant see him clandestinely building those Manhattan bombs in the middles of Moscow with out having KGB cooperation.

Alternatives to blowing up a bunch of city's would be to neutralize the worlds nuclear arsenal not just the soviets.

With his powers DR Manhattan could appearer in the command and control bunkers of both sides disrupting communications between missiles and the command centers.

After he disabled the weapons control networks he could go to the individual missile silos and transport the warheads in to space or transmute the uranium or plutonium in to lead or some other inert metal rendering them useless.

This would remove the danger of nuclear war and send a terrifying message to the leaders of the world.

Having not seen the movie, I can't really comment on the specifics of the "Frame Dr. Manhattan" Project. Dr. Manhattan in the comic probably wouldn't have done the things you suggest. As the Comedian said, Manhattan could have saved lives if had wished, but he was "becoming a flake." He would've gotten bored and left earth anyway, and THEN where would people be...? Exactly where they were when he left earth the first time.

And I don't think Adrian did it for the money and power. He genuinely thought he was saving the world. He HAD money and power, and he gave it all up. Then he rebuilt his empire, starting from scratch. He already HAS anything he needs, and has had it twice over. He really DOES want a peaceful world, although murdering three million people to get it is of course indefensible.

His intentions are impeccable. The method, however...

Anyway, the point is kind of moot since I firmly believe Rorschach's journal WILL get published, someone with authority WILL believe it, and the whole thing will unravel.

Anyway, my original point still stands: Yes, Adrian's a douche. But Rorschach's a douche, too. The Comedian's a douche.

Of course, the rest of the cast isn't much better, which is one of the things that makes it so great.

[gingaio]

Dude, the movie (and graphic novel) pretty much addresses all of your points.

miles316 wrote:

Adrian did not create his plan "to save the world" he did this for his own ends he wanted power.

It was his company that was rebuilding new York at the end of the movie.

Profiting from all those no bid contracts from the government hell he probably owned half of New York.

In the movie, he was explicitly telling the businessmen that he could buy them all three times over. Why would he be doing this, much less anything, for more money or power? In the comic, we're told he inherited a tremendous amount of wealth, then gave it up so he could rebuild it.

Their are alternatives than building bombs and blowing up a bunch of cities.

Adrian was supposed to be the smartest man in the world, and he could not have come up with a better plan than that.

Apparently not. Or not when the world is on the brink of blowing up entirely, as opposed to a few cities here and there.

This man was planing this for years he arranged to give cancer to three people that probably would have taken a couple of years and developing the infrastructure of his company not something some one can just pull out of his ass in the eleventh hour. This was premeditated...

Yup. That was the whole point.

Alternatives to blowing up a bunch of city's would be to neutralize the worlds nuclear arsenal not just the soviets. I'm not talking about destroying them in the air, but while they are still in their silos.

With his powers DR Manhattan could appearer in the command and control bunkers of both sides disrupting communications between missiles and the command centers.

After he disabled the weapons control networks he could go to the individual missile silos and transport the warheads in to space or transmute the uranium or plutonium in to lead or some other inert metal rendering them useless.

This would remove the danger of nuclear war and send a terrifying message to the leaders of the world.

At some point, you got to tell yourself, "It's a comic book." I'm sure Alan Moore would come up with an explanation for why this couldn't happen. I mean, why didn't Manhattan know that Adrian was planning all this?

Tachyons!

And even if Manhattan could disable all the nukes, that really was Adrian's point. It wasn't about disabling nukes, which can always be rebuilt. It was about changing people's mindsets and their willingness to nuke each other by giving them a taste of what a nuclear holocaust really means.

[taksraven]

It dragged a little, but I think I agree with Alan Moore that it was better when I was able to read it at my leisure in a comfy chair by the fire.

If I was reading it in a comfy chair by the fire it would mean that my house was burning down and I wouldn't like that.

Taksraven

[taksraven]

**WARNING: SPOILERS**

**

**

For me, what kept this from being the greatest comic book movie of all time was the lack of payoff at the end.

Sure the ending was basically the same; Veidt is the mastermind behind a grand scheme to scare the world away from nuclear war. Our heroes find out and are too late to stop it. Rorschach will never surrender to living with the lie and is murdered by Dr Manhattan. The rest of the heroes accept the truth of the situation and move on with their lives.

Rorschach certainly accepts his fate in the end though. In both versions. (He knows that he can't escape Manhattan but he hardly goes out with guns blazing anyway.) I think that the people being vapourised in the end reflects effectively what would have happened in a nuclear exchange anyway. The alien thing in the comic looked a bit daft to me by comparison.

BTW.

Why

are

we

using

spoilers

here

anyway

?

[miles316]

Dude, the movie (and graphic novel) pretty much addresses all of your points.

miles316 wrote:

Adrian did not create his plan "to save the world" he did this for his own ends he wanted power.

It was his company that was rebuilding new York at the end of the movie.

Profiting from all those no bid contracts from the government hell he probably owned half of New York.

In the movie, he was explicitly telling the businessmen that he could buy them all three times over. Why would he be doing this, much less anything, for more money or power? In the comic, we're told he inherited a tremendous amount of wealth, then gave it up so he could rebuild it.

Their are alternatives than building bombs and blowing up a bunch of cities.

Adrian was supposed to be the smartest man in the world, and he could not have come up with a better plan than that.

Apparently not. Or not when the world is on the brink of blowing up entirely, as opposed to a few cities here and there.

This man was planing this for years he arranged to give cancer to three people that probably would have taken a couple of years and developing the infrastructure of his company not something some one can just pull out of his ass in the eleventh hour. This was premeditated...

Yup. That was the whole point.

Alternatives to blowing up a bunch of city's would be to neutralize the worlds nuclear arsenal not just the soviets. I'm not talking about destroying them in the air, but while they are still in their silos.

With his powers DR Manhattan could appearer in the command and control bunkers of both sides disrupting communications between missiles and the command centers.

After he disabled the weapons control networks he could go to the individual missile silos and transport the warheads in to space or transmute the uranium or plutonium in to lead or some other inert metal rendering them useless.

This would remove the danger of nuclear war and send a terrifying message to the leaders of the world.

At some point, you got to tell yourself, "It's a comic book." I'm sure Alan Moore would come up with an explanation for why this couldn't happen. I mean, why didn't Manhattan know that Adrian was planning all this?

Tachyons!

And even if Manhattan could disable all the nukes, that really was Adrian's point. It wasn't about disabling nukes, which can always be rebuilt. It was about changing people's mindsets and their willingness to nuke each other by giving them a taste of what a nuclear holocaust really means.

If he did nothing to prevent it other than killing millions of people. He knew it was coming for over a year he could have used his wealth and power to try to bring both sides to the peace table, or he could have killed Nixon. The movie did not explain Adrian's early life or career as super hero, and I was not aware that he came from money, but he was still doing this for power. It took forty years to build the worlds nuclear arsenal it would have taken a couple of decades to rebuild it to the the glory of 1985. I should have gone into more detail in to how DR, M could have dismantled the nuclear arsenal.