Macross II Why not Canon?

[kung flu]

I would have prefered the mardook to have been the supervision army, instead of the protodelvin in Macross 7. Unless i've missed something and the supervision army is still to show itself in the Macross universe.

[Zinjo]

Back to the speculation, by listening to the dialogue I always thought the Marduke/Ingues are what the Zentraedi calle the Supervision Army, the Macross being the Alus (a mythical Marduke lost ship) and all.

No. If we were to shoehorn the series into the Nue continuity that could be a possible explanation for them, however as an alternate universe series, it would not happen. The SA are a product of the Nue continuity based back in SDFM and their purpose was to oversee and / or defend the EVIL series project that created the PD. Mac II bypassed that history and based itself on DYRL which essentially stated that the PC civil war never ended.

I would have prefered the mardook to have been the supervision army, instead of the protodelvin in Macross 7. Unless i've missed something and the supervision army is still to show itself in the Macross universe.

Well I'd have preferred the SA be the antagonists of Mac 7 too, however the Mardook are a product of Mac II and at the time, was not recognized by Studio Nue. You would be correct that the SA has still not been revealed in a Macross production. They are as enigmatic as the PC.

[Sergorn]

. A boy or girl discovering Macross for the first time today (without resorting or having to know about old Entertainment Bibles, magazines, etc.) could watch all Macross series one after the other and think that they all fit together and are part of a great space opera. That's all

Actually I think you do have a point here - somewhat unware of the productions history of Macross series would probably think Macross II takes place later in the same universe. But... *shrugs* that's not really relevant in the end, I think it makes sense to have Macross II set "aside" because the original creators were not involved.

And you know in the end I think I like it best that Macross II remains its own entity, rather than having it totally retcon in order to shoehorn it into the NUE continuity.

-Sergorn

[Gubaba]

Actually I think you do have a point here - somewhat unware of the productions history of Macross series would probably think Macross II takes place later in the same universe. But... *shrugs* that's not really relevant in the end, I think it makes sense to have Macross II set "aside" because the original creators were not involved.

And you know in the end I think I like it best that Macross II remains its own entity, rather than having it totally retcon in order to shoehorn it into the NUE continuity.

-Sergorn

I agree with you overall, but I always feel uncomfortable when people say that Macross II was done without the creators' involvement...sure, it was done without Kawamori, but Mikimoto did the character designs, and Tomita (one of the main writers for SDFM, as well as Dynamite 7, Macross Generation, and other Macross projects, including (I believe) the novelization of DYRL) wrote the story. So a couple of original creators were involved, at least as many as worked on Plus.

[d3v]

Can't we just leave it as it is. Trying to fit it in would just cause endless argument and division among the fans (beyond what there already is) and would possibly lead to more retconning. Beside's I kinda like the idea of multiple continuities.

[valkyriepilot]

I think of Macross II as a side-story, something that DOES exist in Macross Universe, but something that, at least for the moment, doesn't affect a whole lot of things in the main continuity

EDIT: I really liked the VF-2SS and VF-1MS designs a lot! The VF-2JA comes as a close 2nd favorite. Not too sold on VF-XX though

Edited September 29, 2008 by valkyriepilot

[Mr March]

Can't we just leave it as it is. Trying to fit it in would just cause endless argument and division among the fans (beyond what there already is) and would possibly lead to more retconning. Beside's I kinda like the idea of multiple continuities.

I think it's okay to let fans wonder. I admit, I don't see the big need to wedge MII into the Macross canon continuity, but I say let the fans dream and rationalize it however they wish. It's all just Macross anyway and we're supposed to be using our imaginations.

But I will say this; I wish fans would spend a little more time acknowledging the real influences/homages in Macross Frontier than attempting parallels with MII where there are none. To supposedly see MII in Frontier at the expense of the true source is a disservice, IMO. I'd like to see more acknowledgment of the true influences/homages on Macross Frontier from anime such as Aquarion, Evangelion, Gundam and films like Once Upon A Time In The West. Particularly Leone's film, since Frontier is practically swimming with references to that classic western. At least some fans have recognized the Aliens and Ender's Game references.

[Saraphys]

EDIT: I really liked the VF-2SS and VF-1MS designs a lot! The VF-2JA comes as a close 2nd favorite. Not too sold on VF-XX though

Actually, according to the Official Macross Website, thats "VA-1SS Metal Siren", not VF-1MS...

[d3v]

I think it's okay to let fans wonder. I admit, I don't see the big need to wedge MII into the Macross canon continuity, but I say let the fans dream and rationalize it however they wish. It's all just Macross anyway and we're supposed to be using our imaginations.

But I will say this; I wish fans would spend a little more time acknowledging the real influences/homages in Macross Frontier than attempting parallels with MII where there are none. To supposedly see MII in Frontier at the expense of the true source is a disservice, IMO. I'd like to see more acknowledgment of the true influences/homages on Macross Frontier from anime such as Aquarion, Evangelion, Gundam and films like Once Upon A Time In The West. Particularly Leone's film, since Frontier is practically swimming with references to that classic western. At least some fans have recognized the Aliens and Ender's Game references.

Yes, I really enjoyed seeing references beyond anime, especially the Aliens and Ender's Game ones, although I'll have to admit, the Leone ones flew over me (since I'm not too familiar with them).

[valkyriepilot]

Actually, according to the Official Macross Website, thats "VA-1SS Metal Siren", not VF-1MS...

oops sorry bout that, and thanks for the correction Saraphys

[Xeros]

I think it's okay to let fans wonder. I admit, I don't see the big need to wedge MII into the Macross canon continuity, but I say let the fans dream and rationalize it however they wish. It's all just Macross anyway and we're supposed to be using our imaginations.

I agree, but IMO this is worse than the shippers wars

[kung flu]

Macross is just like Gundam, in that there's the original continuity, followed by many Side stories or Alternate universe Shows, that don't have anything to do with the original franchise. Wither we like it or not, it's just another way to milk money from Macross fans with all the merchandising.

[MisaForever]

Can this thread die now.

[RedWolf]

Can this thread die now.

Sure I'm just going to place pics of the 4 kilometer monster, Macross Cannon.

Imaging all the NMCs, a Macross and a Quarter working together to take out this guy.

Edited September 29, 2008 by RedWolf

[jenius]

It looks like they glued some Zentradi ships to the SDF-1.

[Sergorn]

I always love the Macross canon. For all its shortcoming the huge battle of episode 5 was really great.

Speaking of wish as there been a remaster of Macross II on DVD ? The Manga DVD is just so crappy...

-Sergorn

[Duke Togo]

Ugly, but yet totally kick ass. When I first saw the Macross Quarter (in the opening), I thought it had the 4 cannons like this.

[Nexx Stalker]

As far as frontier MII homages go, the Metal siren was the first Valkyrie to date (I think) that sports open wings on the back a la VF25

[Seto Kaiba]

Sorry it took me so long to get back here... it's been a hellish weekend.

I did stumble across something very interesting a short while ago. Having acquired print copies of This is Animation Special #5, Entertainment Bible 51, and the two B-Club Magazine articles on Macross II: Lovers Again, I recently turned my attention to acquiring print copies of the American printed media on that particular feature. Just this afternoon I received the copies of Protoculture Addicts #19, the featured titles for which were Macross II: Lovers Again and Wings of Honneamise.

The featured article on Macross II in PA #19 is certainly interesting. It was written by one Martin Ouellette, who was also a contributing writer for Palladium's Macross II deck plans books. Mr. Ouellette gave a fairly positive review of the OVA, though he did express some disappointment with the mechanical designs (particularly the nature of the VF-2SS and VF-2JA as revamped VF-1S and VF-1J designs). Typical of its era, the article suffers from some pretty bad romanizations... DYRL's title is mistranslated as Macross: Love, Do You Remember?, "Mardook" somehow got romanized as "Marduke", he gets Nexx's name down as "Nexxus", and he gets the ranks wrong (sort of, he's got the equivalencies right, but he's using Navy not Air Force). Amusingly, he DOES rise above expectations by getting Mash's gender right (so many people think he's a woman, sort of like Alto).

One very interesting and very important piece of information was included, though it's hidden in plain sight... tucked between two columns of black and white screen captures, and just above a large picture of the VF-2SS's head on page 16... a simple declaration that the Mardook are the descendants of the Protoculture. In that little blurb about the Mardook, he says that the Mardook are the remnants of the Protoculture, the creators of the Zentradi and Meltrandi, and that they've been wandering the galaxy with a fleet of over 100,000 ships. He also reiterates the statements about the Zentradi being manipulated by songs and brainwashing, and the Mardook storing them in stasis chambers until they're needed.

Before anyone leaps up to yell at me about Protoculture Addicts not being an authoritative publication, I'm already well aware of that fact. I just find it deeply amusing how well it tallies with the conclusions I reached based on my partially-complete translation of Entertainment Bible 51. I also did a little looking, and it looks like the guy who runs Merzo.net reached the same conclusion, though I don't know how much of the source material he had access to.

Incidentally, I've resumed work on my translation of Entertainment Bible 51. It's going to take me a little while to get it done (it's 167 pages long), but I'm going to make my finished translation available for whoever wants it on MacrossShare and my own website. Mr. March does have first dibs on the PDF version though.

[Duke Togo]

The featured article on Macross II in PA #19 is certainly interesting. It was written by one Martin Ouellette, who was also a contributing writer for Palladium's Macross II deck plans books. Mr. Ouellette gave a fairly positive review of the OVA, though he did express some disappointment with the mechanical designs (particularly the nature of the VF-2SS and VF-2JA as revamped VF-1S and VF-1J designs). Typical of its era, the article suffers from some pretty bad romanizations... DYRL's title is mistranslated as Macross: Love, Do You Remember?, "Mardook" somehow got romanized as "Marduke", he gets Nexx's name down as "Nexxus", and he gets the ranks wrong (sort of, he's got the equivalencies right, but he's using Navy not Air Force). Amusingly, he DOES rise above expectations by getting Mash's gender right (so many people think he's a woman, sort of like Alto).

One very interesting and very important piece of information was included, though it's hidden in plain sight... tucked between two columns of black and white screen captures, and just above a large picture of the VF-2SS's head on page 16... a simple declaration that the Mardook are the descendants of the Protoculture. In that little blurb about the Mardook, he says that the Mardook are the remnants of the Protoculture, the creators of the Zentradi and Meltrandi, and that they've been wandering the galaxy with a fleet of over 100,000 ships. He also reiterates the statements about the Zentradi being manipulated by songs and brainwashing, and the Mardook storing them in stasis chambers until they're needed.

I'm not saying he's wrong, but he's done work for Palladium, which practically makes him a fan fiction writer for Macross II.

Edited September 30, 2008 by Duke Togo

[Mr March]

Nice work as always Seto. You are the Macross II master. It would be a honor to have your hard work featured on the Macross Mecha Manual.

[Ishimaru]

Maybe Macross II can be placed late in the original Macross timeline? Maybe like past the year 2100+ late?

Hey anything is possible people.

[Duke Togo]

Maybe Macross II can be placed late in the original Macross timeline? Maybe like past the year 2100+ late?

Hey anything is possible people.

No, and let's just leave it where it is.

[Seto Kaiba]

No, and let's just leave it where it is.

Seconded. It'd never fit with what's been established in the main timeline anyway.

Maybe Macross II can be placed late in the original Macross timeline? Maybe like past the year 2100+ late?

Hey anything is possible people.

In the early drafts, Macross II was envisioned as being set 300 years after DYRL, which would've put it in about 2310. It was reduced to ~80 years (82 years to be precise), putting the OVA in 2092.

Edited September 30, 2008 by Seto Kaiba

[Duke Togo]

In the early drafts, Macross II was envisioned as being set 300 years after DYRL, which would've put it in about 2310. It was reduced to ~80 years (82 years to be precise), putting the OVA in 2092.

300 years would have made the tech seem rather dated.

[Sergorn]

The only way to fit Macross II into the timeline really... would be to put it as a fictionnal sequel to the fictionnal "Do You Remember Love Film ?"

I'd say it'd still deserve better though. (Eck DYRL certainly does deserve... it almost feel insulting for such a marvelous film to be reduced as a "in-canon fiction" )

-Sergorn

[RedWolf]

The only way to fit Macross II into the timeline really... would be to put it as a fictionnal sequel to the fictionnal "Do You Remember Love Film ?"

I'd say it'd still deserve better though. (Eck DYRL certainly does deserve... it almost feel insulting for such a marvelous film to be reduced as a "in-canon fiction" )

-Sergorn

A mini-series ala NBSG pilot.

Who knows the producer could be anti-military Lynn Kaifun of Macross 11.

[MisaForever]

You guys can't just say Macross II didn't happen!!! Cause it did!!!

[Nexx Stalker]

Besides, MII also has a nice homage to Sheryl. Sylvie's squadron is called "Fairy Team"

Oh, wait, maybe it's the other way round . Kawamori snipped in Frontier another MII homage.

Tricky Kawa, always one step ahead

[Mr March]

You guys can't just say Macross II didn't happen!!! Cause it did!!!

I wanna lick you. May I?

[MisaForever]

I wanna lick you. May I?

Ermm.... only if you do a REAAAAALLLLLYY good cosplay of Sheryl, where I THINK you're a chick

[RedWolf]

Ermm.... only if you do a REAAAAALLLLLYY good cosplay of Sheryl, where I THINK you're a chick

ITS A TRAP!

You know I really like the Macross Cannon. Even it were non-canon.

Its both famillar and alien at the same time.

More than twice the size of a Nupetiet-Vergnitzs battleship.

Four big Macross cannons that can ruin the day of any fleet.

When you think about it the NMC is like the Quarter compared to it.

March made an estmate of Attacker mode sizes a while ago.

Now think back at DYRL and how measely the Macross was compared to the Nupetiet-Vergnitzs of Vrlithwai.

Edited October 1, 2008 by RedWolf

[Mr March]

MisaForever

You're no fun

RedWolf

I really hope they do a Macross Attack mode size comparison chart in the Macross Chronicles. I'd like to know if my guestimate is close or if yours is. I might have overestimated the size of the SDF-1 Macross, so the SDF-1 and the Macross Quarter might be a little smaller. In the anime, it looks like the Macross Quarter is closer to your size, but they often thrown scale out for dramatic effect. It's probably somewhere in the middle

[MisaForever]

MisaForever

You're no fun

AM TOO!

[DHX]

Always liked the Macross Cannon think i'll nick it for my fictional macross universe