Macross 25th Anniversary! New TV series coming!

[Zinjo]

All of that's true, SpacyAce. But their primary audience, for all of that, will be a domestic Japanese audience. It would (to their mind) most likely be an extravagance to hire a competent dub cast and bring them to Japan, as well as hire competent ADR writers and bring them to Japan and record an English track for the show as compared to the potential sales that they would recieve. Remember also that very few people have Blu-Ray or HDDVD right now, and any DVD release is going to either (a) necessitate a switch to an all-region disc (doable, but would they?) or (b) force the end consumer in the US to buy an all-region player or modify their own player with an all-region chip (both expensive options if you don't know where to look) so most of those DVD sales for at least the next couple of years will be on mainline DVDs.

Also remember that Japanese DVDs are often prohibitively expensive for many US-based anime fans (a lesson that Bandai Visual is slowly, and perhaps painfully, learning), and so that has to figure into the Japanese calculations over whether or not it would be cost-effective to localize the show themselves and avoid the legal tangles.

Bandai/Big West certainly should explore the idea, but this isn't a time to hold one's breath, either.

Not necessarily so.

As an example, Toho's Appleseed movie did 3 times the DVD business in the West as compared to the Japanese release of the same film.

Now even if the pricing in the West is half of the domestic Japanese release (a discrepancy sketchly aptly pointed out as being necessary to recoup the expense of a limited domestic printing release), BW, via Bandai Visual could still make a lot of additional money from Macross titles here.

If one goes by the idea that 2 DVDs sold in the West equals 1 domestic Japanese DVD, then they could make 1.5 times more revenue by fighting for their market share here as opposed to be cocooned only in Japan.

There are very real profits to be made by freeing up the Macross brand in the West and with shrinking domestic profits a producer has to expand or they simply won't grow.

There is a reason why the trend is for asian partnerships between Japan and Korea to share the costs as well as the artistic visions of new anime titles to be marketed internationally, the cost benefit ratio is much greater this way.

As for Japanese English dubs, it is highly unlikely they'd do such things themselves. They'd contract out like they did in the 90's with the Mikyazaki films, Robot Carnival, and Megazone 23 Pt2 (there may be a few more titles I am not aware of). All these were dubbed and then sent back to Japan for the Japanese subtitles to be added. A few studios actually gained a license to distribute the titles here at the time. So such activity is not unheard of.

However with all the dubbing studios doing anime now, it may not be as easy get a contract without some sort of distribution side deal or unusually high contract price. They may go with Bandai US for the dubbing as it's parent company is in Japan...

[azrael]

...Blah blah blah...

You people love going off on tangents don't ya.

Macross 25 hasn't even seen the light of day and is somewhere in production... Where is all this talk of "if it goes to Blu-Ray/HD-DVD" , "Is there a chance of an English track", "They can market it in the West" coming from? It hasn't even aired on TV yet and we don't even know if it's going to do well on TV yet. I wanna see how good this show is going to be first before I even get down to video releases.

[Pat Payne]

You people love going off on tangents don't ya.

Macross 25 hasn't even seen the light of day and is somewhere in production... Where is all this talk of "if it goes to Blu-Ray/HD-DVD" , "Is there a chance of an English track", "They can market it in the West" coming from? It hasn't even aired on TV yet and we don't even know if it's going to do well on TV yet. I wanna see how good this show is going to be first before I even get down to video releases.

C'mon, Azrael, did you forget the first rule of most Internet forums? "If all else fails, beat the horse to death before it gets out of the starting gate. Repeat until arm is tired."

[Keith]

You people love going off on tangents don't ya.

Macross 25 hasn't even seen the light of day and is somewhere in production... Where is all this talk of "if it goes to Blu-Ray/HD-DVD" , "Is there a chance of an English track", "They can market it in the West" coming from? It hasn't even aired on TV yet and we don't even know if it's going to do well on TV yet. I wanna see how good this show is going to be first before I even get down to video releases.

You have to have a certain amount of faith as a fan that it will do well (of course that can alway be dashed later if it doesn't turn out well), but it's always good to be optimistic.

[sketchley]

The hype around Gundam 00 is probably gonna drown out Macross 25 for the moment. Considering that the lead voice actress is getting introduced at the concert in August, I'm expecting them to be somewhat tight-lipped about info until after the concert.

Had a chance to check out the magazine - Gundam 00 is in full hype mode. Macross only appears as small adverts for the rereleases of Macross Plus and 7 (old news.)

As for the future release of it - there was an article in the magazine about the benefits of Blu-ray/HD-DVD vs. DVD. Given the number of anime releases on Blu-ray (I didn't spot a single HD-DVD release!), there's a strong chance that the standard for anime will be Blu-Ray. That said - what Azrael said - let's wait until AFTER the show starts being broadcast before we contemplate a non-televised media release of "Macross 25".

[eugimon]

Had a chance to check out the magazine - Gundam 00 is in full hype mode. Macross only appears as small adverts for the rereleases of Macross Plus and 7 (old news.)

As for the future release of it - there was an article in the magazine about the benefits of Blu-ray/HD-DVD vs. DVD. Given the number of anime releases on Blu-ray (I didn't spot a single HD-DVD release!), there's a strong chance that the standard for anime will be Blu-Ray. That said - what Azrael said - let's wait until AFTER the show starts being broadcast before we contemplate a non-televised media release of "Macross 25".

well with bandai USA backing HD-DVD, the contest isn't quite over yet.

[Aegis!]

The only thing I care about right now is that BW needs to get their act together and promote the new series properly. If anything, I don´t want to see macross go unnoticed, especially this anniversary. We all now Macross is a cult series, but I want to see Macross become a modern and contemporary cult series, not something that´s barely alive for nostalgia´s sake, something which sets an example of nicely written plots and likeable characters with awesome production value, like GITS or something.

Edited July 14, 2007 by Aegis!

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Yeah but if this turns out to be a reboot a new generation of fans might be born to carry the torch. You need fans to keep things alive. some of the older generation may have to give up on what they liked about SDF:macross to see a series new people will accept.

If an anime fan won't watch the original SDF:macross just because it is old and ignore seeing it just on the strength of the story alone, then that tells you it is time to take a different approach only until the thing generates enough money for the more serious older generation to see new show made. That's what I predict ends up happening at least.

1. they go for a mainstream audience and put the cute cats on girls shoulders in.

2. maybe add in a race of catgirls

3. lure people who like the character into watching a robot/mecha shows which they wouldn't ordinarily do

4. the popularity of the music and characters allows for merchandise to sell as fans of those characters buy the fluffy dolls, cds, figures, otaku love pillows etc

5. with the awareness and boosting of the name "macross", a more "close to the original" series can then later be made if the money is there for it for those who are genre fans. (ie in it for the robots, not the cats or teen angst characters which teens will relate to better than adults)

People keep making fun of others for obsessing over a "20 year old robot show", in a way that says: "get over it, move on, nerd" yet they will get frightened when the mere mention of cute animals is in early design sketches because they don't want their baby changing. heh You can't have it both ways. You want originality and something new? Then you got to have some change and compromise. (not just about robots but culture - highlight difference between races of alien and civilisations and thier way of living and their strange customs, not just action) You want more of the same? Then don't complain it isn't adding new things to the macross name to boost popularity with a new audience who won't just be drawn to the show based on the genre. (my guess is most people want hard science fiction and stuff, and not the mystical ancient magick civilisation stuff, am I right? Some alien tech may be just too advanced for humans to understand so things like pinpoint barriers just exist with no explanation alongside all the realistic stuff like planes that look like they would really fly based on what we know)

At the end of the day maybe you got to rely on the cute characters, the young inexperience kid, the magical girl, ..type characters to get enough people to even consider seeing a new show? Chuck in all those things at the same time as having the characters who are like an update hikaru, misa, and minmay clone?

Edited July 15, 2007 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[sketchley]

(...) (my guess is most people want hard science fiction and stuff, and not the mystical ancient magick civilisation stuff, am I right? Some alien tech may be just too advanced for humans to understand so things like pinpoint barriers just exist with no explanation alongside all the realistic stuff like planes that look like they would really fly based on what we know)

Many good points, but this got me thinking the most: what is the gimmick that Macross has that makes it different from the rest in the genre? I read it as spiritia is here to stay.

Edited July 15, 2007 by sketchley

[eugimon]

Many good points, but this got me thinking the most: what is the gimmick that Macross has that makes it different from the rest in the genre? I read it as spiritia is here to stay.

the problem is macross already had good gimmicks that seperated it from other real-mecha shows... things like character development, music, tripple form mecha. It didn't need spirita. I honestly think the original explanation for why the "love song" was effective was more than good enough and didn't need to be reinforced with this idea of emotional energy.

But oh well, I have to agree with you, I think it's pretty obvious from M0 that spirita will be one of the pillars of Macross.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

If the new series has spiritua, and just presents it in a way that doesn't look cheesy (ie magick coloured lights) and instead goes for a more scientific explanation would it be ok? I find that is the only thing needed for the people to accept it.

Just explain exactly what it is to the audience, why it works, how it works, and the effect it has on people.

I find the culture shock thing from SDF:M was good enough. But when it went into mystical energies that is when the science fiction guys were turned off. I think if the new series were to bring it back, this time go into more details and expand upon the idea. Perhaps the aliens known as the PC were musical aliens? So all the descendants (that chick in M0) who might be related are the only ones who can use this energy and make plants grow fast and stuff?

People may get confused and think it is just soundwaves. and the vibrations themselves have healing ability. But it is more magickal than that and if that magick is there, I would like them to at least go into detail. Maybe give us a history lesson on the protoculture's religion (if they had a god) and teach us more about what their beliefs were. (go back in time with flashback or have an explorer discover ancient ruins with a library of books that describes their ancient civilisation for example.)

Once people know what the PC were like, why the magic exists and works, and what limits if any there are, we can start to get a clearer picture of this macross universe. At least gundam is straight forward. That is psychic communication becoming the next step in man's evolution when he learns to cope out in the far reaches of space and make use of the dormant ability when exposed to it over a long time. This is something that gives us the reasons for it being the focus of the gundam show and why it centres on the newtype and not the average pilot. It's all about the special people with this ability so the mind powers and communications with machines through the mind define it. With SDF:M there isn't any of that: the music wasn't so magical and stuff, so its going to need fleshing out so people can start to embrace/accept it and not feel it is just tacked on as an afterthought.

Edited July 15, 2007 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[eugimon]

Those are some good points. I don't think sci-fi fans have problems with unexplainable mystical powers, namely, the force. So I agree with you that the cheesy light effects went a long way to turning off fans. And I'm not trying to start a flame war, but I think the Basara character also made a lot of people automatically against the spirita force, since he's such a divisive character.

If going forward, Spirita is portrayed more in the style of M0 and less M7, I'll be okay with it. I actually didn't mind the floating rocks. After Empire Strikes Back, floating rocks are just par for course.

[GutsAndCasca]

The only thing I care about right now is that BW needs to get their act together and promote the new series properly. If anything, I don´t want to see macross go unnoticed, especially this anniversary. We all now Macross is a cult series, but I want to see Macross become a modern and contemporary cult series, not something that´s barely alive for nostalgia´s sake, something which sets an example of nicely written plots and likeable characters with awesome production value, like GITS or something.

A-men, brother. A-men.

[Macross1982]

I don't know if anybody has seen this, but Mari Ijima Posted on her site on june 13th that the tickets for the concert Fire Bomber meets Minmei are already sold out, check the link http://www.marimusic.com/archives/2007_06.html ,but if you don't want to I copied it and posted it here

June 13, 2007

Wow. Sugoidesune.

そろそろこのサイトでもきちんとメンションしようかと

思っていた矢先だったんだけど、８月のマクロス２５周年

記念コンサートのチケットは全て売り切れだそうです。

（関係者の皆さん、よかったですね。：）

私は自分の役目をきちんとこなせるように努力します。

翌日に行われるクアトロでの私のソロライブも応援してね！

I was just gonna promote the show on this site,

but I just got news from JVC Victor that the tickets for

Macross 25th Anniversary Concert at Nihon Seinen Kan

on Aug.18 are all sold out.

You could still check out my solo show the next day on Aug 19

in Shibuya if you'd like. I promise it will be very special.

Mari @ Quattro Ticket Order Page

Posted by marimusic at 09:43 PM

[UN Spacy]

Great news. Nice to see the concert is already sold out.

Welcome to MW Macross1982!

[eugimon]

That is good news! Thanks for the news and welcome!

[Zinjo]

Those are some good points. I don't think sci-fi fans have problems with unexplainable mystical powers, namely, the force. So I agree with you that the cheesy light effects went a long way to turning off fans. And I'm not trying to start a flame war, but I think the Basara character also made a lot of people automatically against the spirita force, since he's such a divisive character.

If going forward, Spirita is portrayed more in the style of M0 and less M7, I'll be okay with it. I actually didn't mind the floating rocks. After Empire Strikes Back, floating rocks are just par for course.

Agreed. The idea of spiritia is not as offensive as the rainbow lights, speakers in space and an abrasive "super" rock star character that worked for the kids, but not the old guard fans. More subdued effects and implied alien powers akin to Mac Zero would have worked for me. Hell if the PD were as terrifying looking as Exodol was scared in M7, I would have bought them too...

[Duke Togo]

Star Wars isn't sci-fi, its sci-fantasy. Its never been anything but that. Macross established itself as sci-fi 25 years ago, no matter how much Kawamori has tried to retcon it in the past decade.

[eugimon]

While you're right, I bet most of the audience and/or potential audience, doesn't know the difference between sci-fi, science fiction or sci-fantasy or any of the other sub groups that people like to seperate themselves into. Further, I bet if they were confronted with the distinctions, the vast majority, wouldn't care. And neither do i.

[Duke Togo]

Further, I bet if they were confronted with the distinctions, the vast majority, wouldn't care. And neither do i.

They do when it screws with something they like.

[eugimon]

They do when it screws with something they like.

that's a good point

[Keith]

Spiritia/Sound Energy went through as thorough a "sci-fying" as humanly possible in 7. Never was it portrayed as just magically there, nor was it portrayed much differently in Zero. Though it is interesting to contemplate how it will appear in the new series, but once we have the actual timeframe that it takes place, we should have a much better idea.

[Final Vegeta]

Star Wars isn't sci-fi, its sci-fantasy. Its never been anything but that. Macross established itself as sci-fi 25 years ago, no matter how much Kawamori has tried to retcon it in the past decade.

Sci-fi in itself it's just a fantasy with less suspension of disbelief.

http://www.geocities.com/naran500/infamy/b5.html

Vital Fluids

B5, Various

In the middle ages, an idea came up that there was a life essence, a vital fluid. It could be refined, stored, transfered, etc. In the modern age, this idea is pretty much debunked, but it's still a popular cliche in SF. For example, in Babylon 5, there was a machine that could transfer life force from one individual to another.

Star Wars is a sci-fantasy because people fight with swords and because there where black and white moral alignments. Macross 7 and Zero have nothing to do with this. They may have concepts that are not hard sci-fi, but are still part of sci-fi culture, like ESP powers, faster-than-light travels and time travels.

FV

[Radd]

Spiritia/Sound Energy went through as thorough a "sci-fying" as humanly possible in 7. Never was it portrayed as just magically there, nor was it portrayed much differently in Zero. Though it is interesting to contemplate how it will appear in the new series, but once we have the actual timeframe that it takes place, we should have a much better idea.

I have to disagree, in a way. It was never "explained" or even made out to be some kind of magic, but simply in the way the show was directed, with beams of light and whatnot accompanying "use" of spiritua, it does present it in such a way that to the casual eye, it would seem like the characters are flinging around magic energy beams and fairy dust. It did not seem this was the intention of the show, spiritua seems far less "magical" than, say, the example of "the force" someone gave above, in fact the idea of spiritua seems to do nothing more than give a name to energetic emotion, willpower, and belief, and turn that energy, real or imagined, into a food source for a group of extra-dimensional energy beings.

It's how the show presented it, whether or not it was the show creators/directors intentions, with the accompanying "light show" which gave people the impression of it being some kind of magic force. The fact that so many do take it that way should be evidence enough that it was indeed presented in such a way that would make people think that.

MZ went with the "magic" impression, but in a much more intentional and calculated sort of way, playing off the portrayal of the island natives and their beliefs. However, even in that it was not solely portraying spiritua that way, but also run of the mill Protoculture technology, the likes of which we see often in Macross. I doubt people would have had so much of a problem with it in Zero had it not come after Seven where the initial impression was made.

[Max is a Genius]

Actualy the first time I watched MZ when the scene of the gal singing and the rock started floating around I just turned it off. Come on, at last in M7 they had this somehow bulky piece of equipment to focus their "spiritia" but that was somehow acceptable (except when blocking PPCs from the protodevil....), flying rocks are not...

[justvinnie]

Isn't the gravitational and superluminal event in 1995 to justify the divergence of timelines from our own? I took it that way so as to explained why the ASS-1 didn't crash in 1999.

vinnie

[azrael]

Isn't the gravitational and superluminal event in 1995 to justify the divergence of timelines from our own? I took it that way so as to explained why the ASS-1 didn't crash in 1999.

It could be, but we have some context issues that need to be resolved. We certainly did not have a space station called New Frontier in 1995. I'd be shocked if there actually exists a couple out there by the name of Takashi and Sakiko Hayase who had a daughter named Misa.

[Sumdumgai]

I hope we don't have any purple valkyries in the new TV series, since that 25th anniversary 19 is purple...

[Knight26]

In regards to the use of Spiritia in MZ:

It is established that the Mayan Islander's were direct protoculture dependents, with regular human blood mixed in there. The priestess' like Sarah and Mao were more then likely those of purer blood line. Combine this with their clos proximity to several protoculture artifacts (i.e. the bird human, the temple in the rocks, etc...) and you have a focal point for spiritia energy. Now Sarah and Mao do not know the details of the real protoculture or of their lineage but have some latent telekinetic powers still in place, they are just not likely to be able to concsiously focus them. The singing by Sarah is obviously the only way she knows to be able to focus and exercise her telekinetic abilities, possibly making the song she sings some old protoculture training technique for focusing the mind. The intent of the song is of course lost over the eons but the song itself remains and is known by the priestess' as a way to focus their own latent energies. Mao on the other hand gets a major kick start to her abilities when she is given the blood transfusion from the bird human allowing her to actively use her abilities in the same way Sarah does once she interfaces with the bird human.

Fast forward to M7:

Here comes Basara, he is most likely a descendent of the Mayan, maybe Mao's son, or as I have theorized before Sarah and Shin's son. He does not know the spiritia focusing song for some reason, mommy never taught it to him, didn't know it (in the case of Mao or another islander) but learns that his own songs have an unusual effect on people. He is brought up hearing all about Minmay and how her song won the war, or hears about it after coming back into contact with human colonists, and thinks that her song had a more profound effect then it really did (culture shock). He then begins to experiment with various methods to focus the song energy of his ancestors, which is really more a form of mental telepathy that is better focused when one is singing. Basara is found and scientists who knew about the Mayan and Mao and Sarah realize the potential he has to start on building his special VF-19 with hardware designed to artificially focus and enhance his abilities. Then the spiritia obsessed doc comes along (sorry forgot his name) and comes up with the sound boosters, which once again are really more telepathic boosters that draw and focus the spiritia energies even more so. Certain peoples are also shown to have latent spiritia abilities, possibly due to exposure to various radiations emitted by protoculture artifacts, the interbreeding between humans and zents/melts, the cloning of humans, etc... and these people are also given craft that focus their energies.

I think if M7 was made now and was made the much more gothic horror it should have been that explination would work even better. Heck were a whole relaunch and redo of the whole series' to be undertaken I would have started Basara out in a heavily restored and patched up, and underpowered, custom VF-0A that he inherited from daddy, then have him upgrade to the VF-19 after it gets pummeled. But then that is just me.

[Zinjo]

Actualy the first time I watched MZ when the scene of the gal singing and the rock started floating around I just turned it off. Come on, at last in M7 they had this somehow bulky piece of equipment to focus their "spiritia" but that was somehow acceptable (except when blocking PPCs from the protodevil....), flying rocks are not...

Well telekenesis is a bread and butter SF element and SK coupled that ability with song, which is much more palatable than magic light beems creating a sheild from a buster cannon type blast..

I tend to agree that the M7 director took the idea of song energy (or sonic energy as I prefer to refer to it) and turned it into a juvenile light show as opposed to the more subtle manner SK used in Mac Zero.

Until we get an interview with SK with specific questions on what he wanted M7 to be as opposed to how it turned out, we'll never know how much was actually intended. However with him in a more supervisory role on this project, I suspect we'll get a better idea of what kind of personal vision he has for the universe. Considering this is his first direct return to an all out series since SDFM, it will be interesting indeed.

As for Minmay's abilities, in a universe of Anima Spiritia abilities, then Minmay would be the audience's first experience with such an ability. Granted she was untrained in how to utilize the ability and it was undeveloped, but the natural affect was still there, which is why she is so iconic to the survivors of the war. It is implied by the story itself, in that a virtual unknown is able to reach pop idol status in mere months aboard the ship with her songs. In a population of 50,000 there must have been several music acts entertaining the people, yet Minmay was reveared by all.

Possessing anima spiritia abilities, her music would have a greater impact than any other singer at the time, if the whole Fire Bomber success is used as comparison.

Edited July 17, 2007 by Zinjo

[SpacyAce2012]

Isn't the gravitational and superluminal event in 1995 to justify the divergence of timelines from our own? I took it that way so as to explained why the ASS-1 didn't crash in 1999.

vinnie

It could be that a superluminal event was just detected from Earth in 1995. An event that has something to do with the upcoming story, without a major retcon of the official timeline (or even some alternate universe crap).

[sketchley]

It could be another ship in the Supervision Army fleet that sped by somewhere "close" to Earth.

I'm not thinking along the lines of Macross 25 being about the Supervision Army at this point. However, one way to look at it is that Earth (or at least a select few on Earth) were aware of exo-solar life traveling the stars, and an enlarging of the scope of the Macross Background Story .

[Zinjo]

It could be another ship in the Supervision Army fleet that sped by somewhere "close" to Earth.

I'm not thinking along the lines of Macross 25 being about the Supervision Army at this point. However, one way to look at it is that Earth (or at least a select few on Earth) were aware of exo-solar life traveling the stars, and an enlarging of the scope of the Macross Background Story .

Good point. It could also be that the ship sketchley is speculationg about is the reason that brought Vritai's fleet into our solar system to begin with.

[The Shade]

Who knows? It could be the Supervision Army ship we saw in Ep 30 just cruising by Earth.

[Prime]

Those are some good points. I don't think sci-fi fans have problems with unexplainable mystical powers, namely, the force.

But as Duke alluded to, the Force was established as part of the Star Wars universe almost immediately, and has been a major part from the get go. In Macross it became tangible only after a full series, movie, and OVA (if I have the release order right). I think sci-fi fans don't have a problem with mystical powers if they are set up as a part of the universe rules, but not so much when a series that seems to be without them is changed well afterwards...