Zinjo Posted June 21, 2007 Posted June 21, 2007 Spot on or not, it's still bad to comment on the entirety of something without having experienced the entirety of it. After all, didn't Isamu Dyson make a similar point to Myung in the 3rd episode of Macross Plus? True, however it is unfortunate that Basara really doesn't change his demeanor throughout the entire 49 episodes...
jenius Posted June 21, 2007 Posted June 21, 2007 (edited) If you acknowledge the potential for error by prefacing your statement in such a way as to notify the entire audience that you're not an expert in something (or that you're not through it entirely) then there's no harm in sharing your opinion. I'm also reminded of someone's comment before that they didn't need to eat an entire turd to know it tasted like crap, one little sample would do. Point is, sometimes you can be qualified to make an opinion without being completely exposed to something, other times you can state your opinion on something and defer ire by acknowledging your own weakness in the subject. Whenever anyone reads a book or watches a movie they constantly analyze what they're taking in before it's complete and there's often a lot to be gained from that analysis. It's also pretty easy to draw some conclusions by simply reading discussions on this forum. So, UN Spacy Academy with a new Valk.... the good news is it should be hard to start that story off with the frantic pace Kissdum worked with. Edited June 21, 2007 by jenius
eugimon Posted June 21, 2007 Posted June 21, 2007 (edited) Spot on or not, it's still bad to comment on the entirety of something without having experienced the entirety of it. After all, didn't Isamu Dyson make a similar point to Myung in the 3rd episode of Macross Plus? well, I think we can all agree that if you're learning your life lessons from anime... there are bigger things to worry about. But actually, no... isamu makes the point to myung that she shouldn't make judgements without TRYING first. He doesn't goad her into finishing the sour fruit, just chastises her for assuming it was sour before acutally trying it. So in this case, he watched 1/4th of the series, and formulated an opinion based on his sampling. There's nothing wrong with that. And... uhm... I really want badly for this show not to be about kids with valks. again. Edited June 21, 2007 by eugimon
Duke Togo Posted June 21, 2007 Posted June 21, 2007 SDF Macross had kids with Valks. Hikaru and Max were both 16. Minmay and Milia are both listed as being 15.
Black Valkyrie Posted June 21, 2007 Posted June 21, 2007 SDF Macross had kids with Valks. Hikaru and Max were both 16. Minmay and Milia are both listed as being 15. Yes but they designed them to look like adults, unlike the anime character designs of today Gundam Seed.
Duke Togo Posted June 21, 2007 Posted June 21, 2007 Yes but they designed them to look like adults, unlike the anime character designs of today Gundam Seed. Well, I wouldn't have mistaken any of them for 30 year olds. They looked young.
eugimon Posted June 22, 2007 Posted June 22, 2007 SDF Macross had kids with Valks. Hikaru and Max were both 16. Minmay and Milia are both listed as being 15. well, in my defense, millia was a clone. so maybe for clones, 15 is really old.
sketchley Posted June 22, 2007 Posted June 22, 2007 (edited) If you acknowledge the potential for error by prefacing your statement in such a way as to notify the entire audience that you're not an expert in something (or that you're not through it entirely) then there's no harm in sharing your opinion. (...) Point is, sometimes you can be qualified to make an opinion without being completely exposed to something, other times you can state your opinion on something and defer ire by acknowledging your own weakness in the subject. Whenever anyone reads a book or watches a movie they constantly analyze what they're taking in before it's complete and there's often a lot to be gained from that analysis. It's also pretty easy to draw some conclusions by simply reading discussions on this forum. Well, apologies for trying to instill ethics into this website. Why the call for ethics? Especially in regards to Macross 7, there is a wide discrepency of view towards the series between two parties. The two parties being those who have seen the entire series, and those who have only seen parts of the series and base their opinions on the series from what little they have seen in addition to comments from others, whom invariably have not seen the entire series either. This is where your line comes into play: "It's also pretty easy to draw some conclusions by simply reading discussions on this forum." If those conclusions are formed on opinions formed on only a partial experience of the totality of something, then those who are stating their uninformed opinions are acting unethically; because they know intrinsically that others will be reading their misinformed opinions and basing their conclusions on it. We do not, afterall, trust a movie reviewist who has only seen small parts of a movie. I say this here, because there is a lot of this going on about the new Macross TV series. We know next to nothing, yet people are posting that there will be mascots, it's set in a high school, the next VF will be based off of the technologies in the VF-22, and there will be transforming capital ships. An uninformed reader, or someone skim reading this thread, will take those speculations as fact. Lastly, I do agree that Chrono did the right thing in his statements after the second quote ("In nearly every episode I've seen, (...)"), but not the right thing for the statements after the first post. (The way it's written means the totallity of Basara for the entire series, and not the Basara as seen in the episodes seen to date.) I also find the comment on native culture being highly humorous, as it's pretty much applicable to all characters in all pop-culture from all cultures.) Edited June 22, 2007 by sketchley
azrael Posted June 22, 2007 Posted June 22, 2007 An uninformed reader, or someone skim reading this thread, will take those speculations as fact. And we've had our fair share of those over the years. Heck, the only "facts" we have about "Macross 25" can probably be counted on only 1 hand.
Black Valkyrie Posted June 22, 2007 Posted June 22, 2007 Well, I wouldn't have mistaken any of them for 30 year olds. They looked young. Before I always thought that they around from age 21 to 25.
jenius Posted June 22, 2007 Posted June 22, 2007 When I watched Robotech i thought all the characters were adults. Now the twist on this is, when you're 8, 16 is pretty much an adult to you and 30 is ancient. The question is, if we were 8 watching it with modern character designs, would we have a similar impression or would we relate more to the characters as children. Personally, I think a lot of people in this industry have given up on making characters that kids watch and think "When I grow up, I wanna be like that guy!" and have instead made characters that kids think "wow, he's just like me!" Sketch, as far as the comments earlier go, if you read a dozen people stating "Basara stays the same through out the series' and then you write "It seems to me, from what I've seen, this is the way Basara is in Mac7" you're not doing anything unethical. Save ethics for married people banging their secretaries. What Chrono did is at worst, a bit hasty, possibly flawed, but I think we can stop the bus short of unethical. If after 10 episodes someone said "the valks in Mac7 look like transformers rejects with cheesy paint jobs and craptastic faces" would you insist that the person watch the entire series for that opinion to be qualified? No. Basara's character is similarly self-evident to the silliness of the valks.
wldr Posted June 22, 2007 Posted June 22, 2007 Just out of curiosity, why are we reading comments about Mac 7 characters and what not in this thread? I for one come to look at posts here looking for new developements on the new Macross show, not to listen to another debate about Mac 7. Has anyone found any updated pics or sketches of Valks or characters for Macross 25 that have not as yet been posted here? The rough sketches that I have seen so far, have been just that, rather rough. They leave out a lot of detail that leaves room for a great deal of changes in the designs before the show is released. To put it simply, I want more pics, if anyone can find any that is.
MacrossCN Posted June 22, 2007 Posted June 22, 2007 (edited) BTW Macross Official Website is updated on Jun.18 Macross 25.... bad name http://www.macross.co.jp Edited June 22, 2007 by kresphy
jenius Posted June 22, 2007 Posted June 22, 2007 Just out of curiosity, why are we reading comments about Mac 7 characters and what not in this thread? I for one come to look at posts here looking for new developements on the new Macross show, not to listen to another debate about Mac 7. With a dearth of facts comes an excess of speculation. With an excess of speculation comes large discussions and debate on the past. Love or hate Macross7 discussions, Mac7 does comprise a HUGE chunk of the Macross universe. Thus, any speculative thread on an upcoming series will inevitably carry with it a heavy dose of Mac7 discussion.
azrael Posted June 22, 2007 Posted June 22, 2007 Just out of curiosity, why are we reading comments about Mac 7 characters and what not in this thread? I for one come to look at posts here looking for new developements on the new Macross show, not to listen to another debate about Mac 7. Has anyone found any updated pics or sketches of Valks or characters for Macross 25 that have not as yet been posted here? The rough sketches that I have seen so far, have been just that, rather rough. They leave out a lot of detail that leaves room for a great deal of changes in the designs before the show is released. To put it simply, I want more pics, if anyone can find any that is. Besides that 1 interview, which was mostly about the 25th anniversary, nothing else has come out. And why is there talk of M7 in this thread? Cuz people keep comparing it to M7 when chances are, that it will not be like M7, or M+, or M0, or SDFM, DYRL?, or even MII.....Heck, I'd compare it to Aquarion or Eureka 7 than I would any other Macross series. So no more talk of M7 unless there a point to it which directly concerns "Macross 25" (which so far, it hasn't). Otherwise, please use one of the many existing threads. Macross Official Website said that New Macross will be released in Oct. So it has a Autumn air date.... *please let it not be on the same day as Gundam 00* *please let it not be on the same day as Gundam 00* *please let it not be on the same day as Gundam 00*
terry the lone wolf Posted June 22, 2007 Posted June 22, 2007 BTW Macross Official Website is updated on Jun.18 Macross 25.... bad name http://www.macross.co.jp So, is MACROSS 25 the official name because they don't seem to be changing it.
azrael Posted June 22, 2007 Posted June 22, 2007 So, is MACROSS 25 the official name because they don't seem to be changing it. Nope. After running it through a translator, the title is still marked as temporary. Although, it does seem the official working title is "Macross 25". Production of the [makurosu] up-to-date work which becomes the [makurosu] 25th anniversary commemoration work starts! 1982 October 3rd (day) broadcast was started from 2 o'clock in the afternoon “super spatial-temporal fortress [makurosu]”. At the October this year, [makurosushirizu] receives four half a century from start of television broadcasting. Up-to-date work “[makurosu] of the [makurosu] 25 (temporary)” more and more starting!
Zinjo Posted June 22, 2007 Posted June 22, 2007 Nope. After running it through a translator, the title is still marked as temporary. Although, it does seem the official working title is "Macross 25". Did I read that right? It takes place 50 years after SDFM? I'd be very satisfied if it were on the same story telling level as Eureka 7!!
Aegis! Posted June 22, 2007 Posted June 22, 2007 (edited) Did I read that right? It takes place 50 years after SDFM? I'd be very satisfied if it were on the same story telling level as Eureka 7!! Ditto. It would be very satisfying to see the same production environment as E7, with decent story telling, compelling characters and Kawamori just doing the mechas. [/rant mode ON] And as for the M7 flamewar, seriously, people just need to stop already. Everything regarding this issue has been said already, both sides have lost track of their arguments and are starting to argue for the sake of arguing alone. If you´re already a member then you came here for a reason, to share your passion for macross, and in a time like this we can´t have the fanbase divided in 2 factions. There should be a pinned M7 thread where all this crap can go to and mods should ban anyone who derails other threads (like this one) into a M7 debate. [/end of rant] Edited June 22, 2007 by Aegis!
azrael Posted June 22, 2007 Posted June 22, 2007 Did I read that right? It takes place 50 years after SDFM? I think you are reading it wrong. Pay attention to the context of the statement "...At the October this year,...start of television broadcasting..." which means it should be read as it's been a quarter century since SDFM came on the air back in October of 1982. Hence the quote from (Bad Google Machine Translation).
Zinjo Posted June 22, 2007 Posted June 22, 2007 (edited) There should be a pinned M7 thread where all this crap can go and mods should ban anyone who derails other threads (like this one) into a M7 debate. With passionate fans comes passionate views. Anytime anyone disses M7, invariably a fan of that show will jump to it's defence no matter how slight the mention. So it's bound to happen when speculations about the new show are considered. It doesn't need to take over, but it will happen... I think you are reading it wrong. Pay attention to the context of the statement "...At the October this year,...start of television broadcasting..." which means it should be read as it's been a quarter century since SDFM came on the air back in October of 1982. Hence the quote from (Bad Google Machine Translation). This is what sparked the comment, "half a century from start of television broadcasting" Edited June 22, 2007 by Zinjo
Aegis! Posted June 22, 2007 Posted June 22, 2007 With passionate fans comes passionate views. Anytime anyone disses M7, invariably a fan of that show will jump to it's defence no matter how slight the mention. So it's bound to happen when speculations about the new show are considered. It doesn't need to take over, but it will happen... I´m not saying people should stop arguing with each other about M7, I´m just saying they should do it elsewhere, they should stop highjacking other threads. Back to topic. I think the success of series like E7, gurren lagann, geass and other series is that they introduced new , well thought concepts as well as very neatly developed universes. The producers have thought of all the details, where every comes from and where everything goes to. It´s no news that recent anime series are flawed because they´re unable to firmly stablish their premise or develop new concepts thoroughly ( plot, characters, setting ). These series success is based on the fact that took their time to present everything to the audience and I hope they do the same with this new Macross.
MilSpex Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 On the "50 years" thing its a mistranslation by google. The kanji used in the original Japanese on the SDFM official page are: å››åŠä¸–ç´€ first character is "4", second is "half" and the last two characters mean century. When used together they mean "quarter century" in Japanese, so 25 years. Google translated them separately as in "4 half century". 　
Aegis! Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 (edited) First, i´m glad to hear an official release date. Only a few months away lads! Second, although it´s a bit farfetched, I think we might be looking at a post-2050 series, judging from the early sketches of the valks and the presence of zentradi characters, so this COULD actually be 50 years after. Of course that would be a coincidence and everything depicted in the sketched could change until october. I´m staying optimist and waiting for this to be similar to VF-X2, this could be some sort of VF-X2 prequel set in an airbase trainning facility for newly released valks. [wishful thinking] Edited June 23, 2007 by Aegis!
Keith Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 I wonder. With Big West being so quiet after their legal battle with Tatsunoko a few years ago, and now a full TV series popping up (though Zero was made in the interum), I wonder if the legal issue's have finally been resolved. It'd be nice to get a new Macross propertly licensed over here again...
kkx Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 I saw this at a hk forum: Macross 25å‘¨å¹´è¨˜å¿µä½œå“ - 制作ãŒå§‹å‹•ï¼ Good News マクãƒã‚¹25周年記念作å“ã¨ãªã‚‹ マクãƒã‚¹æœ€æ–°ä½œã®åˆ¶ä½œãŒå§‹å‹•ï¼ 1982å¹´10月3æ—¥(æ—¥)åˆå¾Œ2時ã‹ã‚‰æ”¾é€ã‚’開始ã—ãŸã€Œè¶…時空è¦å¡žãƒžã‚¯ãƒã‚¹ã€ã€‚ 今年10月ã§ã€ãƒžã‚¯ãƒã‚¹ã‚·ãƒªãƒ¼ã‚ºã¯ãƒ†ãƒ¬ãƒ“放é€é–‹å§‹ã‹ã‚‰å››åŠä¸–紀を迎ãˆã¾ã™ã€‚ ãã®ãƒžã‚¯ãƒã‚¹ã®æœ€æ–°ä½œã€Œãƒžã‚¯ãƒã‚¹25(ä»®)ã€ãŒã„よã„ã‚ˆå§‹å‹•ï¼ ã¾ãŸã€ç¾åœ¨ç™ºå£²ä¸ã®Newtype7月å·ã«ã¦ã€ マクãƒã‚¹æœ€æ–°ä½œã«ã¤ã„ã¦ã®æƒ…å ±ã‚„8月18æ—¥ã«é–‹å‚¬ã•ã‚Œã‚‹25周年記念ライブ ＜Minmay meets Fire Bomber＞ã®æƒ…å ±ãªã©ã€ 6ページã«æ¸¡ã£ã¦æŽ²è¼‰ï¼ From www.macross.co.jp My Japanese is not good enough for proper translation, but seems like there will be some 6 pages coverage of a live recording event "Minmay meets fire bomber" which is scheduled for 18th Aug in the July edition of the Newtype magazine. I wish we can see some of these pages.... On another item: Has anyone seen this Macross mad movie ? Most of the scene are pretty HQ, wonder where it came from. Have not seen these before (please forgive my ignorance if this is obvious).
Valkyrie addict Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 urrr....Minmei meets firebomber?? I hope she slaps Basara and Mylene silly for the crappy music, hahaha ok, kidding aside are we gonna finally get an answer to what happened to Hikaru, Misa and Minmei? could it be... oh, i hope so...
MilSpex Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 From www.macross.co.jp My Japanese is not good enough for proper translation, but seems like there will be some 6 pages coverage of a live recording event "Minmay meets fire bomber" which is scheduled for 18th Aug in the July edition of the Newtype magazine. Old news, its the same issue of Newtype with the Kawamori interview and sketches thats already out (July coverdate periodicals come out in June). The movie you linked is the Sega Saturn DYRL? opening animation with different music added.
Zinjo Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 (edited) I wonder. With Big West being so quiet after their legal battle with Tatsunoko a few years ago, and now a full TV series popping up (though Zero was made in the interum), I wonder if the legal issue's have finally been resolved. It'd be nice to get a new Macross propertly licensed over here again... That would be sweet, but doubtful. BigWest has always retained sole ownership of their titles post SDFM, however if I remember correctly after the decision about the line art, there were still a few more copyright cases peninding on the matter of SDFM. I suspect it may have to do with who owns the story of SDFM and possibly who owns DYRL (although these are only speculations on un-named cases still pending). Even if the legal issues in Japan were finally resolved, the ones over here would just be beginning. Someone would have to be willing to bankroll a court challenge based on the Japanese decisions to challenge HG's claim of franchise ownership. Ironically, NOW is the best time for that, considering they have a lot of resources tied up in their new RT show and may be less likely to put up an all out fight for a 25 year old piece of animation that they no longer reference. Edited June 24, 2007 by Zinjo
s001 Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 First, i´m glad to hear an official release date. Only a few months away lads! Second, although it´s a bit farfetched, I think we might be looking at a post-2050 series, judging from the early sketches of the valks and the presence of zentradi characters, so this COULD actually be 50 years after. Of course that would be a coincidence and everything depicted in the sketched could change until october. I´m staying optimist and waiting for this to be similar to VF-X2, this could be some sort of VF-X2 prequel set in an airbase trainning facility for newly released valks. [wishful thinking] Totally agree with you pal
s001 Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 Old news, its the same issue of Newtype with the Kawamori interview and sketches thats already out (July coverdate periodicals come out in June). The movie you linked is the Sega Saturn DYRL? opening animation with different music added. That's right, by the way mentioning Graham that's the best renderization of a vf-1 ever!
Keith Posted June 24, 2007 Posted June 24, 2007 That would be sweet, but doubtful. BigWest has always retained sole ownership of their titles post SDFM, however if I remember correctly after the decision about the line art, there were still a few more copyright cases peninding on the matter of SDFM. I suspect it may have to do with who owns the story of SDFM and possibly who owns DYRL (although these are only speculations on un-named cases still pending). Even if the legal issues in Japan were finally resolved, the ones over here would just be beginning. Someone would have to be willing to bankroll a court challenge based on the Japanese decisions to challenge HG's claim of franchise ownership. Ironically, NOW is the best time for that, considering they have a lot of resources tied up in their new RT show and may be less likely to put up an all out fight for a 25 year old piece of animation that they no longer reference. Actually, the impression I got after the whole Big West/Tatsunoko battle, was that HG was told to cease & decist themselves in regards to claiming ownership. All boasts that HG has made about owning the license have dissapeared from their own site, while comments in such regards are no longer made by them. Hell, take a look at the "Shaodw Chronicles," in the little documentary on the disc, absolutely "no" Macross stock footage is used, it's all Mospeada. That in and of itself says a lot.
Zinjo Posted June 24, 2007 Posted June 24, 2007 (edited) Actually, the impression I got after the whole Big West/Tatsunoko battle, was that HG was told to cease & decist themselves in regards to claiming ownership. All boasts that HG has made about owning the license have dissapeared from their own site, while comments in such regards are no longer made by them. Hell, take a look at the "Shaodw Chronicles," in the little documentary on the disc, absolutely "no" Macross stock footage is used, it's all Mospeada. That in and of itself says a lot. They still are. I was at a Panel run by Kevin McKever the Ops Manager of HG at Anime Evolution in Vancouver last year and he was still making claims to DYRL and such. Whether they are making public claims or private ones to whom they believe are the RT faithful, they still are making claims. They no longer lay any claims to Plus or II, but still try to extend their "rights" to DYRL, eventhough, no one really knows anymore how many license holders are still out there for that movie. If such an order did exist, then the Toynami DYRL toy lines would have pulled by now, and so far they are still on the market. I suspect HG is keeping quiet about things because they know the court decisions in Japan have seriously weakened their position on the subject. McKever would not comment on any of the Japanese decisions, hiding behind the claim that there were still other cases pending on the subject. I have no doubt if pushed into a decision, the courts would have to recognize the Japanese rulings in limiting the depth of copyrights that HG/Tatsunoko hold. Since they award the intellectual properties of the series to Studio Nue and Big West, something becoming quite the hot topic in the West these days. As for SC and the Mospeada references, that is very true, to the point that they abandoned Macek's original design of the SDF-3, for a more "Mospeada" like version. It is a way for HG to be able to claim uncontested ownership of SC, because it is based on a property that HG has uncontested co-ownership of. They can't afford to have a new series that they are trying to launch be stymied by a ownership battle of the Macross property. Macek's "Sentinels" borrowed heavily from Macross and thus was too "dangerous" to continue with, considering the pending court cases in Japan. Edited June 24, 2007 by Zinjo
lord_breetai Posted June 24, 2007 Posted June 24, 2007 Actually, the impression I got after the whole Big West/Tatsunoko battle, was that HG was told to cease & decist themselves in regards to claiming ownership. All boasts that HG has made about owning the license have dissapeared from their own site, while comments in such regards are no longer made by them. Hell, take a look at the "Shaodw Chronicles," in the little documentary on the disc, absolutely "no" Macross stock footage is used, it's all Mospeada. That in and of itself says a lot. Honestly I think the fact that they avoided saying what the event that brought Robotechnology to earth, in the opening dialouge was... or the fact that they wouldn't say half zentradie but rather said half alien, are a lot more telling. I mean Harmony Gold didn't even say, "it all began when zor's spaceship crashed onto he earth and brough wtih it robotechnology"... they just said "it all happened with the single event that brought robotechnology to earth" and didn't explain it... like they were afraid to even mention Macross in a way that could have easily been totally un-macross.
ruskiiVFaussie Posted June 24, 2007 Posted June 24, 2007 (edited) Heh, f'n bastards, I truly hope HG like totally disappears from the face of the planet. Thanks guys this has been very interesting reading. Just hate them... HG... We will get justice someday... you can feel it can't ya? Edited June 24, 2007 by ruskiiVFaussie
Recommended Posts