Pat Payne Posted March 10, 2007 Posted March 10, 2007 BW will do whatever makes money, they aren't quite as snobish as Kawamori. If they believe the fans want more of the their favorite characters they will deliver them with or without SK. ~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~` I like to believe the Megaroad met up with a remnant of the PC's and ended up simily staying with them. In order to preserve the world's anonymity they stopped communicating with Earth. It's a pet theory of mine. Actually, that's not far from my own idea of what happened: They somehow got ripped into another part of the galaxy, where a remnant of the PCs were still hanging on, and having learned their lesson (partly) with the Zentradi had built a robotic fleet to protect them. However, it's gone haywire, prompting the Megaroad crew to correct things... It'd be nice to see a big relaunch to Macross, definetly, but since we're already 3 months into 2007, boyhowdy are they playing it close to the wire...
sketchley Posted March 10, 2007 Posted March 10, 2007 The biggest cost in any production is "labor"! If you have a army of animators toiling away drawing cells over and over again, it is more expensive than building a 3D CG model once and then animating it. Similarly with CG the 2D animation doesn't require every single cell to be animated when a computer can animate a portion of the movement. Granted CG is limited by the ability of the software rendering and animating it (thus less anime magic), but machines don't require salaries or benefits, don't call in sick, etc.... The initial outlay can be expensive, but the fact that the models and such created for a show can be stored and re-used at a future date at no extra cost to the production company. Thus, potentially BigWest could produce another show with the Mac Zero elements in that era of the timeline for much less than what it cost them to produce Macross Zero, potentially allowing for an extending of the number of episodes for the new show costing the same as the first. Not necessarily. It takes both time, and more materials (computers with sufficient processing power and memory, software, energy costs) to create CG animation. Remember - EVERY detail must be hand drawn or placed by a CG modeller, then another CG animator must make them fit into the animation (with a bunch of other CG models in such a way as to give the illusion of movement) and only then, the computer has to be told to render every single frame. Depending on the resolution and the amount of detail (shading, dohickeys, etc.), it can take anywhere from a few seconds, to a day to produce a few seconds or minutes worth of animation. Que should be taken from live action movies like the Lord of the Rings, the Matrix, and Star Wars. How much of those movies, despite being effects heavy, are entirely CG? Not much - in fact, only objects that alter their appearance (characters, essentially) are CG. The rest, from cityscapes to spaceships, are still hand-built, hand lit, and photographed models. Regarding Macross Zero - yes, there is a lot of CG animation in it. The CG also doesn't look like it is motion capture. In other words, all the little movements in every single frame are done by the animators. IMHO, the CG in Macross Zero is the main reason why there were the large gaps in between the releases of the episodes of the series. Macross Zero isn't Star Wars, and BW cannot afford an army of animators to produce a few minutes of CG animation in a short period - instead, they have one or two guys doing it for months. This is also why there are hand-drawn action sequences - due to time constraints (possibly budget constraints too,) it was faster and cheaper to hand draw short sequences. And as Radd mentioned - most, if not all of the hand drawn animation was done on a computer (or scanned into a computer) and 'hand painted' in a computer. There is a section in Tenjin Hidetaka's book on Macross Zero, showing his 'hand painting' of some of the cell animation in Macross Zero. Of course if the new Macross production is motion capture (a la the "Appleseed" movie,) then production time will go down - but render time will still be needed, not to mention the hardware and software... so costs will still be as high, or higher than hiring artists to hand draw the animation...
sketchley Posted March 10, 2007 Posted March 10, 2007 (edited) Hmm, sounds like BW is planning to resurrect the franchise in a big way... What exactly that means is anyone's guess. It could just mean that some to all of the old releases will be remastered and released on Blu-Ray... with only a little bit of new animation being released... Hmmm... adding to my last post: maybe the requirement of acting in the voice actress call is for doing motion capture work? I don't agree with BW 'playing close to the wire.' The 25th anniversary of Macross is not 2007, but Oct. 3rd, 2007. I don't expect any 25th anniversary celebrations until that date, and after it; not before. As it's still only the beginning of March, we still have about 7 months - more than half a year! Plenty of time, IMHO. Edited March 10, 2007 by sketchley
Ginrai Posted March 10, 2007 Posted March 10, 2007 Rereleasing old shows hardly sounds like a turning point for Macross to me...
chrono Posted March 10, 2007 Posted March 10, 2007 The japanese 3D anime pool is still shallow and fighting itself(Gonzo anyone?), but they've made strides forward in understanding it's limits. So expect CG vehicles, mecha, and repeating backgrounds, but don't expect 3D characters(if any at all) because the cost is way to high to use them. Yes CG does pay for itself, but only in longer runs or shorter runs(Eureka 7) that have popular audiences(Gunbuster2, Karas, Yukikaze) and can charge higher prices. If they do 3D material it would be wise to outsource it to the nearby Asian Lucas facilities. Any who... maybe they'll use the Protoculture in this series.
thegunny Posted March 10, 2007 Posted March 10, 2007 Oh you are so razor sharp. I lying mortally wounded at my keyboard because I couldn't piss as high as you Your name wouldn't happen to be Wayne Kerr would it? Anyway enough as I don't want this thread closed because you think you're so good and I won't be able to resist a come back Don't you mean Ch'an wasn't offended? Now if you're going to get picky about Buddhism in Macross, then you have to do the same for all anime that is produced in Japan. But don't stop at Buddhism! Don't forget about Confucianism, Shintoism, and all of the other things that makes the culture different from your own! I agree that you have a life, in the sense that you are living, but you apparently lack education. Please correct us if I am wrong. Also, going back to your first post, shouldn't it be 'nature loving' and not 'tree hugging', as the two are quite different and the later is more applicable to the work in question. I was thinking about that (nature in Macross Zero), and I concluded that Macross Zero cannot exist without some type of exposition and highlighting of nature; in the context of the greater Macross series in general. Why? One key element of the Macross storyline is the destruction of the Earth and human's actions after it. If Macross Zero were to not highlight nature, it would be a failure on the part of the writers as they would have neglected one of the overall Macross story's main points and theme. I have no doubt that nature (either the lack of it (ie: crater filled landscape a la DYRL and M+), or highlighting of it) will appear in the next Macross production; along with singing, love triangles, VFs, and the missile circus. I don't agree that it will be entirely CG (CGA's cost and time prohibitive in general) and I hope that it will be a continuation of the post-Macross 7, VF-X2 storyline.
azrael Posted March 10, 2007 Posted March 10, 2007 thegunny, sketchley, Watch your frakin mouths before I decide to send both of you on a 48-hour trip to the principal's office.
wolfx Posted March 10, 2007 Author Posted March 10, 2007 http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2007-...ons-for-macross Translated news of the said subject, but u all probably already know all this.
Dante74 Posted March 10, 2007 Posted March 10, 2007 Ooooowww! a real series! Ok, now I'm getting excited
MacrossCN Posted March 10, 2007 Posted March 10, 2007 (edited) Because the characters have overflowed by BBS program allowance. So this update have done on Mar.23, 2007 15:16(Japan Standard Time) The Part.2 is continued... http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?...1926&st=567 =============================================== Mar.23, 2007 The last news from Macross Official Web Site: http://www.macross.co.jp The Macross 25th Exhibition by Satelight involve the powerful Macross Zero VF-OS transformation process show and some Macross series items. The pic is Satelight booth in TAF Business Day on Mar.22. p.s. These days, Satelight update TAF news for Kissdum and Aquarion, no New Macross... Are you ready announce New Macross production plan??? =============================================== Mar.19, 2007 The last news from Satelight: The Satelight prepare the Mecha show of Kissdum and Aquarion for TAF 2007. The Production Supervisor Shoji Kawamori chit chat with Satelight in Mar.10, 2007 for it. Kissdum: NES Cockpit Armor（ＮＥＳコクピットアーマー） There is not news for New Macross... I figure Satelight ready all for other Animes, how about Macross??? BTW, some Macross fans join the Victor Entertainment's Heroine Application, I hope to get any grapes from them... T T =============================================== Mar.12, 2007 The last news from Satelight: Tomorrow, we will answer the last week quiz. So sorry... Something produce by Satelight to be announced At TAF 2007, the news from The 3DCG digital department of Satelight. hey hey, something... I think it is New Macross!!!!! ** =============================================== Mar.10, 2007 The last news from Satelight: http://www.satelight.co.jp/animefair/ Today, The Production Supervisor Shoji Kawamori chit chat with Satelight. what about New Macross or other Anime? It is the secret~~~~ Please wait to Mar.12, next monday The draft pics... Is The New Macross story or design? =============================================== Mar.10, 2007, 0:32(JST) Macross Offical Web Site update is finished. All early grapevines is confirmed by Offical Web Site. http://www.macross.co.jp/ =============================================== The Offical Web Site said that The New Series will an epic anime!! Now, the Victor Entertainment is searching Audition of heroine. coming soon!!!! http://www.jvcmusic.co.jp/audition/v3/ =============================================== Mar.22, 2007, The Macross 25th Exhibition will attend "Tokyo International Anime Fair 2007", the same with Macross Zero in TAF 2003!!! http://www.tokyoanime.jp/ http://www.satelight.co.jp/animefair/ The new Macross name maybe is Macross Flier(マクãƒã‚¹ フライヤー) from the Japanese Macross fans~~~~ Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee~~~~~ ** ====================================== I am a Pure Macross fans! I hate Robotech!!!!!! On Feb. 2007, Robotech：The Shadow Chronicles is released, but it is so poor... Now, the royal Pure Macross is coming!!!!! Farewell, Robotech!!!!!!!! Edited March 26, 2007 by kresphy
sketchley Posted March 10, 2007 Posted March 10, 2007 (edited) The new Macross name maybe is Macross Filer(マクãƒã‚¹ フライヤー) from the Japanese Macross fans~~~~ Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee~~~~~ ** フライヤー = Fulaiya- (or Furaiya-). Romanized into English: Flyer (or Fryer) I'm guessing Flyer, as that makes more sense in the context of Macross. There's been some discussion on this topic for some time here: http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=21563 Edited March 10, 2007 by sketchley
MacrossCN Posted March 10, 2007 Posted March 10, 2007 フライヤー = Fulaiya- (or Furaiya-). Romanized into English: Flyer (or Fryer) I'm guessing Flyer hey hey yes, it is my typing mistake! I have edited it **
sketchley Posted March 10, 2007 Posted March 10, 2007 thegunny, sketchley, Watch your frakin mouths before I decide to send both of you on a 48-hour trip to the principal's office. <sigh> http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=142 Section III: Never Allowed #1. No religious or political debates. If you want to talk politics go to the proper outside forum. Not everyone shares your beliefs. Nothing starts more arguments then these kinds of debates. They have value but they have no value here. I was bringing attention to this. I'm glad to see the moderators are aware of this issue, but am disappointed at their reaction to it. Zen = Ch'an = someone elses religion and I hope not, I'm still recovering from the Zen, tree hugging, WTF was that all about overload from Zero is a misrepresentation of someone else's religion, as it's not in Macross Zero. The issue was pushed further into the religious direction, when Gunny opted to not check facts first and force the issue with more ignorant comments on a collection of world religions. Perhaps if Christianity or Islam was used instead of Zen, the reaction would have been different, no? I agree that this is not the best manner of approaching the issue, nor is this the best place to continue discussing it. However, in the interest of keeping MW members from accidently or inadvertantly offending people of other religions, I am posting it here as a reminder. Now then not to make this post completely off topic, as I endevour to post something relevant to the topic of the thread in all my posts: we've been given a potential name for this new series: マクãƒã‚¹ã€€ãƒ•ãƒ©ã‚¤ãƒ¤ãƒ¼ = Macross Flyer. I also suggest expecting some kind of announcement or even lineart for the new series on March 12th; as per: http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?...c=21926&hl=
Dante74 Posted March 10, 2007 Posted March 10, 2007 So Kawamori is involved. This just keeps getting better and better.
Mr March Posted March 10, 2007 Posted March 10, 2007 As always, it's great to see official confirmation coming through the wire. Now, all we have to do is wait...damnit
terry the lone wolf Posted March 10, 2007 Posted March 10, 2007 MACROSS FLIER, hmnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.. Sounds pretty cool. A little bit old school.. I like it! Thanks Kresphy!
chrono Posted March 10, 2007 Posted March 10, 2007 Production Supervisor Shoji Kawamori Uh oh! Maybe he'll be concerned with the quality of the artwork rather than the story or attempting to direct the show.
MacrossCN Posted March 10, 2007 Posted March 10, 2007 MACROSS FLIER, hmnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.. Sounds pretty cool. A little bit old school.. I like it! Thanks Kresphy! hmmmm... The Japanese Macross fans said that the address of The Audition Participation recipients is Macross Flier(マクãƒã‚¹ フライヤー), so they guess the new Macross name maybe is Macross Flier. However, it is only a supposition before The Macross Offical Web Site have announcement. **
Roy Focker Posted March 10, 2007 Posted March 10, 2007 I like this new guys style. Btw what's wrong with Kawamori being involved? He had pretty big hand creating it.
wolfx Posted March 10, 2007 Author Posted March 10, 2007 hmmmm... The Japanese Macross fans said that the address of The Audition Participation recipients is Macross Flier(マクãƒã‚¹ フライヤー), so they guess the new Macross name maybe is Macross Flier. However, it is only a supposition before The Macross Offical Web Site have announcement. ** Or maybe its just a flier for the audition, IE: The Paper they receive is called a FLIER. Just thought that this is a possiblity.
Aegis! Posted March 10, 2007 Posted March 10, 2007 OMG, AT LAST !!! Man, I haven´t felt like this since M0 was announced 6 FREAKING YEARS AGO . The feeling of expectation is killing me but I´m really happy Macross is not dead yet. I´m really eager to see what BW and Studio Nue are planning for this ¨big come-back¨, I hope it´ll be something we can all be proud of and enjoy equally for a change ( ala SDF,DYRL & plus). Macross Flyer doesn´t sound as good as previous series but I can live with that, it´s a decent name. As always, I´m hoping Kawamori stays away from the plot and limits himself to mechas and overall supervision. With so many things in his mind I doubt he´ll have any time left to go deep enough into the plot of this new series and partially ruin it.
Black Valkyrie Posted March 10, 2007 Posted March 10, 2007 Will all this new Macross news, Qs comes to my mind : 1- Did Graham knew about it (hints in his sig.) ? 2- Who will take care of the merchandise for this new Macross Bandai or Yamato ? 3- Is SK involve in it ? 4- Even though for the 25th Anniversary is BW trying now to compete the MSG franchise after all this years ? 5- Will it be for the old fans or for the new mainstream fans of today ?
Valkyrie addict Posted March 10, 2007 Posted March 10, 2007 I was asking myself the same thing, if Yamato might have the license already and Graham had inside info on the upcoming new series...he gave a lot of hints I hope it's for us old timers that enjoy animation with credible back stories and no hocus pocus crap like todays anime
Zinjo Posted March 10, 2007 Posted March 10, 2007 So Kawamori is involved. This just keeps getting better and better. "Production Supervisor" can mean many things form a consultant role to actual hands on involvement. I suspect the former is the case during the actual production. Whereby the director calls upon him to clarify any questions regarding abilities of races, technology, etc.... I am glad SK is staying involved in the franchise. He doesn't need to write every story or direct every show to be involved. Many "creators" will retain a producer's credit or consultant role on franchises they started to maintain their influence. The franchise needs new blood and fresh new stories to keep it alive and I don't believe SK has any new stories to tell in that universe anymore.
T.V. Posted March 10, 2007 Posted March 10, 2007 (edited) I was asking myself the same thing, if Yamato might have the license already and Graham had inside info on the upcoming new series...he gave a lot of hints I hope it's for us old timers that enjoy animation with credible back stories and no hocus pocus crap like todays anime It's doubtful it'll be solely or primarely aimed at old school Macross fanatics. That would like make the target market too narrow, when Macross needs a broader support base if it wants to grow significantly. I'd like to think that BW is hoping for a Gundam SEED like reignignition of the franchise, therefore their project and bussiness model might be inspired by it and it's success. Macross Flyer almost sounds like a placeholder name. As if this new project is meant as a flyer for the Macross brand. The leaflet one.. not the one that soares in the air. P.S. Thanks for the clarification on the Tatsunoko deal, JBO. Edited March 10, 2007 by T.V.
T.V. Posted March 10, 2007 Posted March 10, 2007 Or maybe its just a flier for the audition, IE: The Paper they receive is called a FLIER. Just thought that this is a possiblity. I was thinking along similar lines "a flyer for the Macross brand," then a noted your post in this thread.
Zinjo Posted March 10, 2007 Posted March 10, 2007 I think Kawamori settling into a role of a supervising producer is a natural progression. He's apparently run out of stories in the universe (or is tired of it) and his last show was not as well received as Big West and Bandai had hoped. They may be going with fresh talent in hopes of resurrecting the popularity of SDFM again...
Black Valkyrie Posted March 10, 2007 Posted March 10, 2007 I think the admin should combine both theards into one .
Zinjo Posted March 10, 2007 Posted March 10, 2007 Not necessarily. It takes both time, and more materials (computers with sufficient processing power and memory, software, energy costs) to create CG animation. Only if you are trying to do it in-house as opposed to farming that work out to a studio that works in that medium already. They aren't going to charge for equipment they already own. Remember - EVERY detail must be hand drawn or placed by a CG modeller, then another CG animator must make them fit into the animation (with a bunch of other CG models in such a way as to give the illusion of movement) and only then, the computer has to be told to render every single frame. Depending on the resolution and the amount of detail (shading, dohickeys, etc.), it can take anywhere from a few seconds, to a day to produce a few seconds or minutes worth of animation. Yes the models have to be built, but they only have to be built once. The scene is then choreographed according to the storyboard and the input of the director, tweaked to the director's vision and then rendered in 24 frames per second or whatever the film speed is (a day of downtime for a couple of computers is cheaper than a days wages of two animators producing the same scene). Once the scene is completely rendered it is transfered to film. Now the process may be a bit more direct if HD cameras are being used for the animation (I'd have to check with my buddy in the film industry). Que should be taken from live action movies like the Lord of the Rings, the Matrix, and Star Wars. How much of those movies, despite being effects heavy, are entirely CG? Not much - in fact, only objects that alter their appearance (characters, essentially) are CG. The rest, from cityscapes to spaceships, are still hand-built, hand lit, and photographed models. I can't say why Jackson chose that method, however Lucas chose that method because he didn't believe CG could render a photorealistic static image well enough to be believable, so he opted to stick with miniatures and allow CG to provide "add-on" elements to create a sense of realism to the miniatures. Now to create photorealistic CG is very expensive (King Kong anyone?), even the high end CG done in Appleseed and Final Fantasy VII is expensive, but Mac Zero was not at that level because efforts were made to allow it to better mesh with the character animation which was much less sophisticated. Regarding Macross Zero - yes, there is a lot of CG animation in it. The CG also doesn't look like it is motion capture. In other words, all the little movements in every single frame are done by the animators. If that is indeed how they did it, then yes it would cost a lot more, however that would be the most inefficient way to CG animate anything and I highly doubt it was done that way. IMHO, the CG in Macross Zero is the main reason why there were the large gaps in between the releases of the episodes of the series. If they animated on a episode by episode basis, you may be right. As a matter of fact, considering how long it was between episodes they probably actually did indeed stop production between episodes... In that case BigWest would have to commit itself to producing the show as a whole and continue the work right through episode releases to maintain reasonable release dates for the audience. If they can do photorealistic CGI on episodic shows like BSG on a weekly basis , there is no reason why they can't do the same for a series of OVA's on a non weekly basis. Macross Zero isn't Star Wars, and BW cannot afford an army of animators to produce a few minutes of CG animation in a short period - instead, they have one or two guys doing it for months. This is also why there are hand-drawn action sequences - due to time constraints (possibly budget constraints too,) it was faster and cheaper to hand draw short sequences. Star Wars had the budget to do "Photorealistic" CG not anime CGI. Mac Zero CG was not nearly the same quality of CG animation as SW or King Kong, so a comparison between them is erroneous. What makes you think any CG animation house like "Satelight" would employ only two animators on a major project?? Just like any studio they'd have 3d artists, animators, SPFX, etc... It isn't some ad hoc basement studio run by a couple of college kids during the summer break... If any hand drawn work was done to compensate for CGI it would have been due to poor production planning, not the CGI work. "Satelight" was contracted for a certain amount to do certain work in a certain amount of time and that is what they were paid, any changes to the contract would be re-negotiated. Of course if the new Macross production is motion capture (a la the "Appleseed" movie,) then production time will go down - but render time will still be needed, not to mention the hardware and software... so costs will still be as high, or higher than hiring artists to hand draw the animation... Motion capture would help, but only in the sense that the character movements would be more lifelike. Again, a company like "Satelight" would have it's own hardware, software and staff and wouldn't charge the production for it unless something new, that they didn't already have, was "required" for that specific show. Rendertime can be easily compared to the costs of paying artists and the material costs of creating the thousands of individual animation cells for the production. The major differences is that when the CG models and enviroments are done, they don't require re-creation for the next scene or even the next production. That is where CGI really pays for itself.
Black Valkyrie Posted March 10, 2007 Posted March 10, 2007 Well if its a remake like and better than seed I wouldn`t mind, if BW wants to widen the for new fans. Hmm ... Yamato ... producing the merchandise for the new Macross ...
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