Macross 25th Anniversary! New TV series coming!

[RDClip]

Will people still pilot valkyries by the 2050-60s or will they be controlled from a remote distanse?

Will they finally introduce the technology of the YF-21 into mass produced valks ?

Will we actually see the AFOS again ?

Will Kawamori finally explain the misteries of the Protoculture in the 25th anniversay ?

Will the Anti-UN reappear ? using Pheyos valkyries and renegade power amours ?

Will this new series be set in earth, a colony or on a fleet ?

1) I really hope they still have pilots. I don't know about anyone else but a series about a bunch of guys sitting in a booth 1000 miles from the battlefield controlling planes seems pretty boring to me.

2) if this is truly post-Mac7 i hope they have some super advanced valks. Imagine a manned valk with the manuverability of the Ghost-9 from Mac+.

3) Well, if we see the AFOS or not i just want there to be an explination of what the hell it was.

4) Thats a biggy. If he does that may make any further series have not much to go on. But, he may just do what the previous series' have done and give us a little information on the PC pertaining the story of the series.

5) i'd like to see some new enemy valks. The ones in Mac7 were such a letdown, but the valks vs valks in Mac0 and Mac+ is what i want to see more of.

6) I would be interested in what earth is like post-Mac+ (which was the last time we saw earth, and only about 1 ep)

[Keith]

I believe the official explanation was so that the Gunship could be ditched in an emergency (perhaps in case of some type of overload or other dangerous situation).

And I'd love to see the AFOS pop back up, though we'll have to see the direction that the new series goes in. I think Kawamori's saving that for his endstory.

[eugimon]

1) That's Real Physics... this is anime

2) By Gunship do you mean Battle 7's gunpod/Macross cannon? I wouldn't call it it's own ship.

3) I still think in terms of animation design it was to make it the same size as the bigger Protodevelin, and I'm reminded of Gunbuster... in Episode 5 there's one part where Noriko and Kimiko discuss the fact that the space Monster that just attacked them and was squishing them was something totally unknown and unexpected then they used the Double Buster Collider an attack that only makes sense for that exact situation.

Well, since the mechanical designers took the time to put in vernier thrusters, and since DYRL actualy took the time to animate those little guys working, I don't find it unreasonable that I would expect that logic to continue on.

2. well, since the gun can move around on it's own, and it's not physically a part of the battle 7, I don't see what else to call it.

3. so, the designers of the battle class ships thought to themselves, "gee, what if there's a giant humanoid spacve monster somehwere out there that we'll have to wrestle with?" Bah, that's like the navy putting giant anti-squid saw blades on their boats, just because. It doesn't just call for a suspension of disbelief, it flies in the face of what was previously established as "realistic" within the macross universe.

[T.V.]

LMAO at people thinking the Battle 7 is ridiculous but the SDF-1 somehow isn't.

The SDF-1 has a similarly poor excuse for transforming as the Battle 7 does.

The transformation somehow being able to compensate for the loss of targeting/fireing components doesn't make any sense.

Just because it's canon doesn't excuse it from being a poor excuse IMO.

If anything, shooting the cannon in humanoid mode would prove to be a bigger problem than shooting it in ship mode for both the SDF-1 and Battle 7.

What a brilliant idea to shoot a massive weapon that's not aligned with the center of mass..

Edit:

Not saying that silly things can't be legitimized in a story, but the willingness to suspend disbelief has it limits and "just because" is one of the sillier reasons one can get.

Macross shouldn't be taken too serious on its own.

Edited June 18, 2007 by T.V.

[lord_breetai]

3. so, the designers of the battle class ships thought to themselves, "gee, what if there's a giant humanoid spacve monster somehwere out there that we'll have to wrestle with?" Bah, that's like the navy putting giant anti-squid saw blades on their boats, just because. It doesn't just call for a suspension of disbelief, it flies in the face of what was previously established as "realistic" within the macross universe.

Again why did they put the Double Buster Collider in the Gunbuster when the only time it would come to play is if they were both directly above and directly low a Space Monster, a situation very unlikely in real combat... and when they did not know there was a Space Monster that attacked in just such a way. (the whole scene being a joke on such Deus Ex Devices).

But even then you site that Macross mentions some real phsyics... big whop, we still see them treating constant thrust as constant velocity, because it's more exciting to have the thrusters glowing then have them dead. The only scifi anime that as far as I watched was totally realistic on space travel was Starship Operators, but I only saw the first episode or so... so I wouldn't be suprised if it even screwed up.

[RDClip]

LMAO at people thinking the Battle 7 is ridiculous but the SDF-1 somehow isn't.

The SDF-1 has a similarly poor excuse for transforming as the Battle 7 does.

The transformation somehow being able to compensate for the loss of targeting/fireing components doesn't make any sense.

Just because it's canon doesn't excuse it from being a poor excuse IMO.

If anything, shooting the cannon in humanoid mode would prove to be a bigger problem than shooting it in ship mode for both the SDF-1 and Battle 7.

What a brilliant idea to shoot a massive weapon that's not aligned with the center of mass..

Edit:

Not saying that silly things can't be legitimized in a story, but the willingness to suspend disbelief has it limits and "just because" is one of the sillier reasons one can get.

Macross shouldn't be taken too serious on its own.

The thing that bugs me about battle7 is that it's not like the Macross that sort of resembled a giant humaniod robot, no battle7 looked exactly like a giant humaniod robot that was designed to look like one. Not only that the Macross had the cannon mounted on the 'head' what did battle7 have? a big-ass gun that the big ass humanoid robot gripped with his hands and shot.

Come on everyone just admit the huge cheesy factor of it and get it over with.

Edited June 18, 2007 by RDClip

[Zinjo]

Actually the gun "pod" on the Battle 7 is actually called the "Gun Ship" according to the Miyatake designs.

However, I agree that it didn't need to be "hand held" for it to work. It would have been just as effective if it was on a pivot mount underneath the carrier, attached yet independant at the same time.

The SDF-1 was discovered to be "modular" in design and thus capable of transforming. Most likely an unexplained alien design feature. Considering they were in the middle of the solar system without any more parts than they currenly carried with them, the fastest and most logical step would have been to transform the ship to fire the cannon as opposed to taking weeks or months to fabricate the necessary parts to replace the ones lost by the fold.

The only recorded "official" explanation to Battle 7's transformation was that the producers felt it wasn't a Macross show without a transforming Macross ship, as far as I am aware of.

Edited June 18, 2007 by Zinjo

[Valkyrie addict]

haha! if I remembered correctly, even in SDFM itself, the need for the Macross to transform and then fire was question by the zentradi, like 'wtf'? haha!!

[wldr]

haha! if I remembered correctly, even in SDFM itself, the need for the Macross to transform and then fire was question by the zentradi, like 'wtf'? haha!!

You remember correctly sir, they did in fact wonder why the micronians would change the configuration of the ship. Maybe that was added because someone in on the writing thought it was a silly idea to have the Macross transform.

[T.V.]

Come on everyone just admit the huge cheesy factor of it and get it over with.

SDF-1 was already cheesy enough in that regard.

The Battle 7 design simply says to me the designer just embraced it full stop.

"We already went overboard the first time, so there's little reason to hold back now."

The primary difference IMO is that the Battle 7 design is more sophisticatedly humanoid, with the ejectable gunship and posable hands.

Is the gunship sillier than the gunpod of a Valkyrie?

The SDF-1 had taylormade grafted ship arms with front ends that mimiced hands all too obviously already.

The SDF-1 and Battle 7 are IMO similarly wacky, but with M7 they simply removed the pretense of functional design, primarely by leaving out a few lines of dialogue concerning the on screen justification.

Edit:

How can transforming compensate for lost parts, which function is not mechanical/structural in nature?

A mechanical reconfiguration doesn't negate the loss of a targeting computer...

Edited June 18, 2007 by T.V.

[Knight26]

Wait I thought the SDF-1 transformed because when the fold drive disappeared it took with it the main power feed line between the reactors and the main gun. Thus the transformation was required in order to rebridge the gap because they didn't have the necessary cabling onboard.

[Beltane70]

The only scifi anime that as far as I watched was totally realistic on space travel was Starship Operators, but I only saw the first episode or so... so I wouldn't be suprised if it even screwed up.

Try the anime Planetes if you want totally realistic space travel. Planetes even obeys the fact that there isn't sound in space.

How can transforming compensate for lost parts, which function is not mechanical/structural in nature?

In the case of the SDF-1, transformation moved the position of the main gun's power coupling so that it was connected the coupling from the main gernerator. Prior to its disappearance, the fold system was the link between the main gun and the main generator. With the fold systems gone, the transformation was just simply moving power couplings around instead of making new cables. Artwork in Perfect Memory explains the transformation process much more clearly than the show does.

[T.V.]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it a case of missing targeting computers as well?

[Knight26]

I never heard anything about targetting computers

[Ginrai]

I hope they make a Micron Zentradie the main character for this one; Zents are always the bad guys. Guld was a complete bad-a#@ but he was still the villain up until the last part of MAC PLUS.

Mylene is half-Zentradi. (And for that matter Veffidas is fully Zentradi.)

[Ginrai]

Technology is never equal to good animation. Love = good animation.

That is a gross over simplification. There's also matters of skill and more importantly time and budget.

[T.V.]

I never heard anything about targetting computers

Ah.. might be a goof up on my side then.

It has been quite some time since I watched Macross and I always found the justification for transforming the SDF silly. I guess my mind is playing tricks on me trying to remember what parts actually went missing in the fold, apart from the fold drive itself.

[Zinjo]

I never heard anything about targetting computers

Maybe it's a RT thing...

No one is disputing that the SDF-1 wasn't designed to look humanoid once transformed, however they addressed this with the explanation that it was more coincidence as opposed to purposed as in Mac 7.

Did they embrace the whole humanoid transformation fully in Mac 7? Absolutely, but they did it without any plausible explanation for it.

If they had said they discovered that the SA had transfoming ships or anything that would justify the time needed to design a fully functional transforming capital ship as well as the time and expense to build them, we wouldn't really be having this discussion.

As it was, it ultimately ended up being "something cool" for the kids to look at during the show.

It didn't even merit a toy or model kit!!! ~ which is unfortunate as I would have bought the Mac 7 capital ship kits over the SDFM ones...

Edited June 18, 2007 by Zinjo

[eugimon]

SDF-1 was already cheesy enough in that regard.

The Battle 7 design simply says to me the designer just embraced it full stop.

"We already went overboard the first time, so there's little reason to hold back now."

The primary difference IMO is that the Battle 7 design is more sophisticatedly humanoid, with the ejectable gunship and posable hands.

Is the gunship sillier than the gunpod of a Valkyrie?

The SDF-1 had taylormade grafted ship arms with front ends that mimiced hands all too obviously already.

The SDF-1 and Battle 7 are IMO similarly wacky, but with M7 they simply removed the pretense of functional design, primarely by leaving out a few lines of dialogue concerning the on screen justification.

Edit:

How can transforming compensate for lost parts, which function is not mechanical/structural in nature?

A mechanical reconfiguration doesn't negate the loss of a targeting computer...

again, there was an internal, story driven logic as to why the SDF looked the way it did and why it did what it did. If you don't like the reasons, that's fine. all i'm saying is that the Battle 5 & 7 repudiate the internal logic setup by SDF macross, you can keep talking in circles all you want.

[eugimon]

Again why did they put the Double Buster Collider in the Gunbuster when the only time it would come to play is if they were both directly above and directly low a Space Monster, a situation very unlikely in real combat... and when they did not know there was a Space Monster that attacked in just such a way. (the whole scene being a joke on such Deus Ex Devices).

But even then you site that Macross mentions some real phsyics... big whop, we still see them treating constant thrust as constant velocity, because it's more exciting to have the thrusters glowing then have them dead. The only scifi anime that as far as I watched was totally realistic on space travel was Starship Operators, but I only saw the first episode or so... so I wouldn't be suprised if it even screwed up.

uhm maybe you're in the wrong forum, this is a forum for macross, not this gunbuster you keep dredging up to validate the massive deux ex machina you seem so fond of.

[ruskiiVFaussie]

Sigh, i agree, no more transforming SDF in the new series please.

Of course no one can deny the awesomely cool SDF pin-point barrier punch. *kick ass!*

Lets go sick with a spacebattleshipyamato thing. MUCH COOLER.

Although i am TOTALLY all for seeing the Old SDF in the new series ala

Plus, and Macross II.

Edited June 18, 2007 by ruskiiVFaussie

[wolfx]

Again why did they put the Double Buster Collider in the Gunbuster when the only time it would come to play is if they were both directly above and directly low a Space Monster, a situation very unlikely in real combat... and when they did not know there was a Space Monster that attacked in just such a way. (the whole scene being a joke on such Deus Ex Devices).

Its not even a good example as the Gunbuster's double buster colliders are not necessarily deus ex machina. Why can't it have double buster colliders? The colliders on the legs were probably to be used when standing on a space monster or kicking it. Just happened when it was "pancaked" by 2 space monsters, they were able to deploy both buster colliders. Not that hard to believe no?

And back to macross, i dun really mind if the new flagship doesn't transform into a giant humanoid. But it must have some form of "alternate mode" that it transforms to. Maybe a mode which opens up and deploys hundreds of valkyries instantaneously, or maybe a mode that reveals the main cannon(s) to be fired.

If it HAS to be humanoid, well i can cook up some flavor:

1.) The ship is a colony ship and transforms into humanoid form when it finds a suitable planet to colonise. The teraforming machines located at the "legs" drill down into the planet's crust to change the eco-system from below. Leaving the upper torso above ground with the hands acting as planetary defence turrets.

2.) I'm probably gonna get lynched for suggesting this. The new macross is made up of smaller modular ships. A fleet of them. They can.....combine to form different configurations and firing modes. Some firing modes look more humanoid than others. The main reason for combining is to form a stable Full Barrier (as opposed to PPB) that covers the whole ship when all reactors are working together. When combined the ship can also make short distance folds instantaneously, appearing behind enemy lines, let off a whole salvo of destruction and folding out. Now....why not just stay combined? Because this stresses the reactors of the individual ships, so the new macross can only remain combined for a limited amount of time.

[Beltane70]

Please tell me that you're being sarcastic, wolfx.

[Sumdumgai]

Guld was only Half Zentraedi too.

Since I tend to dislike the main character, it doesn't really matter whether it's a human, zentraedi, zolan, or a giant glob of primodial ooze. I'm hoping to like the main character though.

[wolfx]

Please tell me that you're being sarcastic, wolfx.

Actually i thought those were cool suggestions.

Kawamori should take me as his tree hugging apprentice.

[Keith]

Why have a hand mounted gunpod at all on the Valkyries? Why not just have the arm be a cannon itself and be done with? Why? Because it's anime, and someone thought it looked cool!

[wolfx]

Why have a hand mounted gunpod at all on the Valkyries? Why not just have the arm be a cannon itself and be done with? Why? Because it's anime, and someone thought it looked cool!

Cuz then there will be no manipulators to punch Zentran ass with or to rescue maidens from a city closing in on itself.

[terry the lone wolf]

Mylene is half-Zentradi. (And for that matter Veffidas is fully Zentradi.)

So was Guld to but what I'm saying is the Zents are either bad guys or support characters. I like to see a Zentradie be the hero for a change. In MAC Plus they hinted that Human/Zent relations were still not the best so a Zent pilot dealing with human prejudice & mistrust would be a compelling story.

[sketchley]

I think Macross 7 took that Zentraedi/human animosity a step further - the all Zentraedi fleet, specific weapons of war built for them, etc. (Capital ships in Macross 7, the Variable Gluag in Macross Plus Game Edition, and Macross M3, for starters.)

I think that there is a lot not being stated. However, do we, and the Japanese audience that Macross is created for want to watch an anime about racial seperation and the strife caused by it?

Touching on the transforming capital ships issue here: the series has transforming jets. Why not transforming ships? There are already 2 different ones that the camp that is complaining about them in Macross 7 are accepting: the SDF:M and DYRL versions of the SDF-1. Count 'em, 2 baby.

Let's all keep in mind that Macross is a) unrealistic fantasty originally intended to be a spoof of the genre (I think that's what the creators said), and b) transforming mecha are one of it's gimmicks to differentiate it from other anime. Capital ships fall under the broad category of mecha, BTW. The other gimmicks are the love triangle, music, and the flying circus. You can expect all 4 of those in this upcoming Macross series.

[eugimon]

well, original intent or not, the finished product is all we have to go by. And again, in SDF Macross, and in DYRL, there was great care taken to remain consistent to the internal logic of the show.

The writers gave in-story reasons for why the mechs looked a certain way, why ships behaved a certain way, why the aliens looked the way that they did. Everything had a reason behind it, and the story and animation remained faithful to it.

Even the real world physics people like to dismiss casually, WAS animated in the opening battle sequence and again where hikaru takes minmay out for a joyride in the VT in DYRL.

And Sketch, there's a huge difference between the Macross and the Battle 5/7... the Battles have big ridiculous hands and fire their main guns like a big gun. It's just exceedingly silly.

Sigh, forget it, let's just go all the way with giant transforming capital ships. Instead of pin point barrier punches, lets have them doing martial arts in space. And then the captain can yell out moves like "Giant Swirling Plasma PUNCH" and the Battle 25 can gather up its chakra and get all blow and glowy and then unleash it's devastating martial arts attack. Or better yet, with the new improved humanoid form, instead of having a singer on the deck singing, the whole capital ship can sing and dance! Whole fleets of capital ships doing dance routines, like n'sync in space! How awesome would that be???

Edited June 19, 2007 by eugimon

[briscojr84]

Cuz then there will be no manipulators to punch Zentran ass with or to rescue maidens from a city closing in on itself.

Let's not forget about getting dressed, so that you can "blend in" with the crowd.

One other thing that the Battle Carriers may be good for is construction, they've already shown that there are VF construction mecha, why not unarmed versions of the Battle Carrier to work on larger projects, such as space stations and such.

Edited June 19, 2007 by briscojr84

[Zinjo]

I think Macross 7 took that Zentraedi/human animosity a step further - the all Zentraedi fleet, specific weapons of war built for them, etc. (Capital ships in Macross 7, the Variable Gluag in Macross Plus Game Edition, and Macross M3, for starters.)

I think that there is a lot not being stated. However, do we, and the Japanese audience that Macross is created for want to watch an anime about racial seperation and the strife caused by it?

I've noticed that as well. Though in Western cultures we'd want to explore that dynamic, I doubt it is a high priority in Japan.

Touching on the transforming capital ships issue here: the series has transforming jets. Why not transforming ships? There are already 2 different ones that the camp that is complaining about them in Macross 7 are accepting: the SDF:M and DYRL versions of the SDF-1. Count 'em, 2 baby.

The principal difference is that the SDFM & DRYL ones are explained as "coincidence" as opposed to the Deliberate Mac 7 ones.

Let's all keep in mind that Macross is a) unrealistic fantasty originally intended to be a spoof of the genre (I think that's what the creators said), and b) transforming mecha are one of it's gimmicks to differentiate it from other anime. Capital ships fall under the broad category of mecha, BTW. The other gimmicks are the love triangle, music, and the flying circus. You can expect all 4 of those in this upcoming Macross series.

What was intended and what was produced are two very different things. If they stayed to the notion it was a parody, they wouldn't have explained why the Macross transformed, it just would.

Now if one considers Mac 7 a parody of the Macross universe itself, then the "Man 7" makes complete sense and has supreme cheese factors working for it.

Edited June 19, 2007 by Zinjo

[Sumdumgai]

Hey, they can have a transforming capitol ship with not only one gunship, but two, so it can dual wield. Not only that, but the ship has extra ppb generators in the hands which can be launched as independently piloted rocket fists.

If they actually do that, you guys can watch me pitchfork myself.

[TheLoneWolf]

Hey, they can have a transforming capitol ship with not only one gunship, but two, so it can dual wield. Not only that, but the ship has extra ppb generators in the hands which can be launched as independently piloted rocket fists.

If they actually do that, you guys can watch me pitchfork myself.

I hope you weren't serious about the pitchfork

[Ginrai]

So was Guld to but what I'm saying is the Zents are either bad guys or support characters. I like to see a Zentradie be the hero for a change. In MAC Plus they hinted that Human/Zent relations were still not the best so a Zent pilot dealing with human prejudice & mistrust would be a compelling story.

I have argued this before and I will argue it again: Mylene is the main character of Macross 7. She is the character that is new to all the weirdness, she is the one people explain things to, she is the audience avatar, she is the character that it is easy to relate to, especially if you are 15 or whatever as the show's intended audience was. She is the one the love triangle focuses on.

Basara is kind of in the position of Roy combined with Misa. He is the older, more skilled pilot who is kind of a mentor, but he is also a somewhat cold, driven, and emotionally detached love interest. Yes, he is the popular singer like Minmay, but his personality is way more like Misa.