Macross 25th Anniversary! New TV series coming!

[Zinjo]

ooh, that's right! I hope the new SDF is a proper warship.

The Battle 5 & 7 were gorgeous warships until they transformed for no apparent reason other than the producer's notion that it wasn't Macross without a transforming capital ship...

Though the idea of more Miyatake capital ship designs is very appealing...

Edited June 16, 2007 by Zinjo

[eugimon]

The Battle 5 & 7 were gorgeous warships until they transformed for no apparent reason other than the producer's notion that it wasn't Macross without a transforming capital ship...

Though the idea of more Miyatake capital ship designs is very appealing...

yeah... unfortunately, I can't think of battle 7 without seeing those giant hands firing the ridiculous "gunship"

[kensei]

yeah... unfortunately, I can't think of battle 7 without seeing those giant hands firing the ridiculous "gunship"

I wasn't too concerned about that, I've seen WAAAAY worse designs.

Plus Macross 13 looked awesome in the VF-X2 movie clip.

Edited June 17, 2007 by kensei

[Radd]

I rather like Battle 7 and Battle 13 myself.

I did not mean that no combat at all would take place at an academy, but it would be against drones or against other trainees or instructors useing painballs.

I would say it's rather early to start making assumptions, especially assumptions like this. Or that a cat will pilot a bright red Valkyrie and shoot magical music beams from its robo-cat-boobs before explaining how we need to recycle to save the universe.

[terry the lone wolf]

I hope they make a Micron Zentradie the main character for this one; Zents are always the bad guys. Guld was a complete bad-a#@ but he was still the villain up until the last part of MAC PLUS.

[MilSpex]

I suspect the series is probably already underway, at the very least all the designs and scripts are finished and Satelite is already building models and doing preliminary renders of sequences.

Absolutely. The series starts airing in August doesnt it? I`d assume all the designs are completed but the public is only seeing early sketches in the Japanese press so far.

Japanese hardcore fans are known for stealing material from animation studios (at least they did in Otaku no Video haha) so hopefull we`ll see some harder stuff leaked on the Japanese fan pages?

I`m wary of getting my hopes up for the show. I started on Macross 7 with the lowest expectations possible and actually ended up enjoying it somewhat and getting a little of that old Macross feeling back towards the end of the series. I think I`ll keep the same attitude for this show. I`ll expect the worst, so then if its mediocre I`ll be pleasantly suprised. Does that make sense?

[Mr March]

I found the UN Spacy capital ship spacecraft in Macross 7 one of the few positive points of the series. Sure there's no reason to have a transforming warship, I got used to the new designs and I like the look of those ships. Besides SDFM had a transforming spaceship and so did DYRL? and Macross Plus. I didn't find it took away from the show in any of those instances. The rather silly concept of a transforming space carrier is really something about Macross that you just have to go with if you're going to enjoy the show at all. At least, that's just MO.

At any rate, I agree completely with charger69. In all the discussion of Valkyries, we've not given much thought to the idea of some new capital spaceships in the next Macross. The capital ship warfare was always one of the really exciting aspects of SDFM. It would be nice to see some episodes in which capital ship warfare played a more important role like it did in several of the episodes of the original series.

[eugimon]

true, I'd love to see some big boats broadsiding each other with valks dogfighting in between, dodging missiles and gunfire all the while trying to dodge massive cannon blasts.

[big F]

Besides it being clearly marked as fake?

Well I`d got that quite quickly, I mean more about who did it that sort of thing.

[jenius]

Besides SDFM had a transforming spaceship and so did DYRL? and Macross Plus. I didn't find it took away from the show in any of those instances. The rather silly concept of a transforming space carrier is really something about Macross that you just have to go with if you're going to enjoy the show at all. At least, that's just MO.

If memory serves, the original SDF was not a transformable spacecraft. It was retrofitted to be transformable due to necessity. That same ship then appears in DYRL because it is a re-telling and in Mac+ because it is iconic. I don't think it's really fair to have that be a precedent unless the argument is that the SDF-1 itself should appear in all Macross shows. Mac7's ship is just plain silly and to say "Oh that's just Macross for ya!" ignores that the fact that there's some backstory as to why one large battleship, in particular, had to transform. There is certainly no precedent that UN Spacy was in the habit of producing transformable capital ships. If they're going to include another massive transformable object in a future Macross I hope they at least give some sort of explanation as to WHY it should transform.

[Duke Togo]

Yeah, if its not the SDF-1, I don't want to see a transforming capital ship. None of the other ships were in SDF Macross, and neither was the Megaroad in 2012.

[Mr March]

If memory serves, the original SDF was not a transformable spacecraft. It was retrofitted to be transformable due to necessity. That same ship then appears in DYRL because it is a re-telling and in Mac+ because it is iconic. I don't think it's really fair to have that be a precedent unless the argument is that the SDF-1 itself should appear in all Macross shows. Mac7's ship is just plain silly and to say "Oh that's just Macross for ya!" ignores that the fact that there's some backstory as to why one large battleship, in particular, had to transform. There is certainly no precedent that UN Spacy was in the habit of producing transformable capital ships. If they're going to include another massive transformable object in a future Macross I hope they at least give some sort of explanation as to WHY it should transform.

I've always felt the explanation for transformation of the original SDF-1 was a crutch at best. The ship was designed from the start to transform and the explanation provided in the series is in my mind an afterthought given to legitamize such a radical concept. Not to mention the fact that refitting a ship to transform would in no way be less work or easier than simply internally rebuilding the SDF-1 to enable firing of the main gun. But alas it's fiction and you roll with their "explanation."

The reason for the uniqueness of the SDF-1 Macross is certainly not hard to understand, given the limited scope of the orginal series and a similar situation in Macross Plus.

As with all things, Macross 7 took the idea far too literally and just created more transforming capital spacecraft. Whether explained with technobabble or not, the original series had transforming ships and so the sequels went with it. Still, I don't think it felt all that awkward and as I wrote earlier, the capital ships of Macross 7 don't look all that awful to me. Cataloguing all the many complaints I have for Macross 7, the U.N. Spacy capital ships aren't on counted among them anymore. But that's just me.

[azrael]

The series starts airing in August doesnt it? I`d assume all the designs are completed but the public is only seeing early sketches in the Japanese press so far.

No. We don't have an air date yet. The official announcement is during the August 18th 25th-anniversary concert.

[DestroidDefender]

There is certainly no precedent that UN Spacy was in the habit of producing transformable capital ships.

Maybe not but the Zentraedi Nupetiet-Vergnitzs underwent a minor transformation to fire their "big guns" - at least in DYRL. I honestly don't mind a transforming ship. If you want to start questioning the rationale behind military vehicles turning into giant humanoid robots maybe Macross is not for you....

[eugimon]

Maybe not but the Zentraedi Nupetiet-Vergnitzs underwent a minor transformation to fire their "big guns" - at least in DYRL. I honestly don't mind a transforming ship. If you want to start questioning the rationale behind military vehicles turning into giant humanoid robots maybe Macross is not for you....

bah, that's a cough out of an arguement. Macross set up certain rules as to the why of things.

they made giant humanoid robots to fight giant humanoid aliens.

The SDF transformed in order to to fire the main gun.

battle 5 and 7 had no real reason.. the maingun should have been designed to be fired in ship mode.

it's like this, we all accept superman has powers the stretch imagination, he can fly. has x-ray vision, is super strong, super fast, has icy breath and laser vision.. but throw a giant cellophane net from his chest shield? that's just silly.

[MilSpex]

No. We don't have an air date yet. The official announcement is during the August 18th 25th-anniversary concert.

okay, thanks for clarrifying. Still, to be a 25th anniversary series it has to air in 2007, so I would still assume an August or soon after air date.

[MilSpex]

true, I'd love to see some big boats broadsiding each other with valks dogfighting in between, dodging missiles and gunfire all the while trying to dodge massive cannon blasts.

Yessssssss. That is such a cool image. Stop getting my hopes up! In all probability the new series probably wont have any cool epic battles like this (like Macross 7`s pathetic excuses for well animated battles), will probably just be small skirmishes (like Macross 0) and I`ll be devastated.

Edited June 17, 2007 by MilSpex

[Duke Togo]

bah, that's a cough out of an arguement. Macross set up certain rules as to the why of things.

they made giant humanoid robots to fight giant humanoid aliens.

The SDF transformed in order to to fire the main gun.

battle 5 and 7 had no real reason.. the maingun should have been designed to be fired in ship mode.

it's like this, we all accept superman has powers the stretch imagination, he can fly. has x-ray vision, is super strong, super fast, has icy breath and laser vision.. but throw a giant cellophane net from his chest shield? that's just silly.

That's pretty much it in a nutshell.

[RDClip]

Yessssssss. That is such a cool image. Stop getting my hopes up! In all probability the new series probably wont have any cool epic battles like this (like Macross 7`s pathetic excuses for well animated battles), will probably just be small skirmishes (like Macross 0) and I`ll be devastated.

I always thought Mac7 had a small budget and thus used cheating animation techniques (ie. constant recycling of shots) to get by. I would think this new production would have a big-ass budget and they do have 21 century animation technology.

But, if we are right with the flight school thing, then the possibility of a full scale battle seems to be very implusible.

[MilSpex]

I always thought Mac7 had a small budget and thus used cheating animation techniques (ie. constant recycling of shots) to get by. I would think this new production would have a big-ass budget and they do have 21 century animation technology.

Technology is never equal to good animation. Love = good animation. Look at those non-anime-friend episodes of SDF Macross, lovingly rendered. Extremely hi frame rates for certain scenes, unheard of for TV anime at the time (For example: Max and Millia fighting it out inside the Macross while Hikaru is in hospital, the dogfight where Roy is mortally wounded).

A lot of animation in the `80s was amazingly produced because the staff had passion. Animators would put extreme detail into their work. I think some of that same passion isnt around today and people rely too much on technology. Thats just my opinion though.

But, if we are right with the flight school thing, then the possibility of a full scale battle seems to be very implusible.

Unfortunately you may be right. But they could be training to be sent to a distant war? The last episodes could still feature a battle? Think Gunbuster with Valkyries!!!

Edited June 17, 2007 by MilSpex

[Mr March]

bah, that's a cough out of an arguement. Macross set up certain rules as to the why of things.

they made giant humanoid robots to fight giant humanoid aliens.

The SDF transformed in order to to fire the main gun.

battle 5 and 7 had no real reason.. the maingun should have been designed to be fired in ship mode.

it's like this, we all accept superman has powers the stretch imagination, he can fly. has x-ray vision, is super strong, super fast, has icy breath and laser vision.. but throw a giant cellophane net from his chest shield? that's just silly.

After all things have been said and done, I'd have to agree with this statement

[Necron_99]

Technology is never equal to good animation. Love = good animation. Look at those non-anime-friend episodes of SDF Macross, lovingly rendered. Extremely hi frame rates for certain scenes, unheard of for TV anime at the time (For example: Max and Millia fighting it out inside the Macross while Hikaru is in hospital, the dogfight where Roy is mortally wounded).

A lot of animation in the `80s was amazingly produced because the staff had passion. Animators would put extreme detail into their work. I think some of that same passion isnt around today and people rely too much on technology. Thats just my opinion though.

I couldn't have said it better myself

[lord_breetai]

bah, that's a cough out of an arguement. Macross set up certain rules as to the why of things.

they made giant humanoid robots to fight giant humanoid aliens.

The SDF transformed in order to to fire the main gun.

battle 5 and 7 had no real reason.. the maingun should have been designed to be fired in ship mode.

it's like this, we all accept superman has powers the stretch imagination, he can fly. has x-ray vision, is super strong, super fast, has icy breath and laser vision.. but throw a giant cellophane net from his chest shield? that's just silly.

Well in robot mode it is about the same size as some of the larger Protodevelin... which is I think in design purposes intentional although obviously in story purposes not so.

Edited June 17, 2007 by lord_breetai

[eugimon]

Well in robot mode it is about the same size as some of the Larger Protodevelin... which is I think in design purposes intentional although obviously in story purposes not so.

which is a LAME reason to make it transform.

Edited June 17, 2007 by eugimon

[lord_breetai]

okay, thanks for clarrifying. Still, to be a 25th anniversary series it has to air in 2007, so I would still assume an August or soon after air date.

Not Neccisarily... sometimes the anniversary projects like this are delayed, remember Robotech the Shadow Chronicles was supposed to be out for Robotech's 20th anniversary.

And there are more reputable examples and examples from Japanese companies as well... sometimes they come out in the next year cause they're still celebrating the anniversary then. Or sometimes companies have things like "Project 2000" but the tail end of project 2000 comes out in 2001. Stuff like that.

I think it'll come out in October when the original Macross did though, to be a true 25th anniversary.

[big F]

If memory serves, the original SDF was not a transformable spacecraft. It was retrofitted to be transformable due to necessity. That same ship then appears in DYRL because it is a re-telling and in Mac+ because it is iconic. I don't think it's really fair to have that be a precedent unless the argument is that the SDF-1 itself should appear in all Macross shows. Mac7's ship is just plain silly and to say "Oh that's just Macross for ya!" ignores that the fact that there's some backstory as to why one large battleship, in particular, had to transform. There is certainly no precedent that UN Spacy was in the habit of producing transformable capital ships. If they're going to include another massive transformable object in a future Macross I hope they at least give some sort of explanation as to WHY it should transform.

Hopefully it will mean they wont have to fight some 3/4 mile high anima spirta type demon.

[Beltane70]

okay, thanks for clarrifying. Still, to be a 25th anniversary series it has to air in 2007, so I would still assume an August or soon after air date.

As a general rule, new anime shows usually start in either April or October. October is the most likely start of this new Macross series.

[NeoverseOmega]

which is a LAME reason to make it transform.

Actually, the reason I've seen given is even more ridiculous - although I'd have to dig around to find it again. In one description of Battle 7 it said that the Macross class ships were given the ability to transform as a memorial to the original ship - in short, it wasn't necessary, it was just done to honor the original. Yep, they just wait to get it transformed, charged up, and then fire just to honor the original Macross - in my humble opinion that would be an absolutely a$$inine reason to die.

Although the little kid in me still thinks Battle Seven looks cool, I can't imagine the Deadalus maneuver performed through the guts of a protodeviln would be any more effective than just shooting at it (which was pretty useless if I remember correctly). They would have to have a VERY good reason why a 3/4 mile tall hunk of metal would need to physically grapple with something when guns and missiles are available. Okay, not even a spectacular reason (after all, in the original they needed to change the ship to use the gun, but there was no reason it had to appear somewhat humanoid), but at least something that sounds like they HAD to design it that way out of military necessity would be nice. In short, perfect verisimilitude might not be possible but geez, they could at least make an appreciable effort.

It almost pains me to admit that I have enough sympathy for bad taste that a fist-fight between capitol ships could be kind of cool, but there better at least be an honest attempt to make it fit sensibly in the logic of the Macross Universe (um, when logic is actually used that is).

It could have been worse though, it could have had a GIANT GUITAR and "Rocked" the larger protodeviln into submission . . .

Edited June 18, 2007 by NeoverseOmega

[sketchley]

Removing the Protodevlin and the Varuta from the equation (justification of a transforming capital ship,) and the conclusion I arrive at is:

a humanoid mode was created to maximize the ability of the fleet led by the Battle carrier. There doesn't have to be a need at the unset of the project, but simply the potential need for it.

We've seen this (the potential need for something justifying it's existance) in real life, especially in certain countries military procurements. Why shouldn't the same be true for a fictional military?

Also, if memory serves, the cannon section of the Battle carrier is capable of operating as an independent ship. At the very least, it provides it's own power source, and doesn't cause a drain on the power supply of the Battle carrier. I think that one, or both, are a good justification for creating a self-contained cannon, whose use doesn't effect the operations of the (Battle) carrier. If I remember correctly, the use of the SDF-1's cannon DID negatively effect the SDF-1 at times (I'm including the cannon's not working here as well.)

If anything, the Battle carrier is an homage to the VF-1, in that the VF-1 transforms, and the main armament is a self-contained, disposable weapon carried in hand.

Edited June 18, 2007 by sketchley

[Vince]

I am positive I read somewhere that one of the reasons battle 7 and such ships transform and hand held the main cannon was to allow the ships to be more flexible in better aimming their main guns -- without completely alter the ships' flight path, ??

[azrael]

I am positive I read somewhere that one of the reasons battle 7 and such ships transform and hand held the main cannon was to allow the ships to be more flexible in better aimming their main guns -- without completely alter the ships' flight path, ??

That was from me, in the newbie thread. However, no official explanation was ever given.

[Aegis!]

I think all this talk about transforming capital ships, cats and school plot speculation is a waste of time right now.

I think we need to worry about other things.

Assuming this is a post 2040 series ( by the look of the valks and the addition of civilian zentradi/zolan characters) I have to wonder what kind of conflict they´ll focus on in this new series.

Will people still pilot valkyries by the 2050-60s or will they be controlled from a remote distanse?

Will they finally introduce the technology of the YF-21 into mass produced valks ?

Will we actually see the AFOS again ?

Will Kawamori finally explain the misteries of the Protoculture in the 25th anniversay ?

Will the Anti-UN reappear ? using Pheyos valkyries and renegade power amours ?

Will this new series be set in earth, a colony or on a fleet ?

I´ll be more interested in especulating about those than cats and j-pop

[Duke Togo]

Will we actually see the AFOS again ?

I wouldn't even watch it if Kawamori continues down that route.

[eugimon]

I am positive I read somewhere that one of the reasons battle 7 and such ships transform and hand held the main cannon was to allow the ships to be more flexible in better aimming their main guns -- without completely alter the ships' flight path, ??

This has to be one of the most poorly thought out arguements for a transforming ship.

one, this is spaceand inertia is everything, so it's possible to rotate on an axis without changing the overal direction of movement. so the gunship could simply pivot in space and fire in a different direction... a'la the game asteroids.

two, it stretches belivability that it's faster for the battle 7 to transform, dock with the gunship, and then aim and fire the gunship, then for the gunship to merely aim and fire... afterall, the gunship is STILL moving around in space in order to dock with the battle 7.

[lord_breetai]

one, this is spaceand inertia is everything, so it's possible to rotate on an axis without changing the overal direction of movement. so the gunship could simply pivot in space and fire in a different direction... a'la the game asteroids.

two, it stretches belivability that it's faster for the battle 7 to transform, dock with the gunship, and then aim and fire the gunship, then for the gunship to merely aim and fire... afterall, the gunship is STILL moving around in space in order to dock with the battle 7.

1) That's Real Physics... this is anime

2) By Gunship do you mean Battle 7's gunpod/Macross cannon? I wouldn't call it it's own ship.

3) I still think in terms of animation design it was to make it the same size as the bigger Protodevelin, and I'm reminded of Gunbuster... in Episode 5 there's one part where Noriko and Kimiko discuss the fact that the space Monster that just attacked them and was squishing them was something totally unknown and unexpected then they used the Double Buster Collider an attack that only makes sense for that exact situation.