Year Zero

[SpacePirateNeko]

Trents nver said he made industrial music , he was inspired by alot of it but hes always hated the label as it was too confining. But nin has always had its deepest roots in post punk pop music anyway. Theres more depeche mode then nitzer ebb in nin anyway ( thats a good thing).

Though plenty of those bands are good ( especially SP) have any of them really done anything new or interesting ( within themselves) for years? I think skinny puppy have evolved and changed by leaps as a byproduct of losing a member but the other bands...i mean cmon. Ministry have been barking up the same tree for 17 years now.

I think many people who listen to "industrial" have always been pissed because nin took the sound to the masses. I dont know, i just like music if theres at least some feeling behind it and theres an effort to display that feeling...ie if it moves me in anyway. I dont really care what way is made to acheive that sound.

I was a nin fan and a fan ofof some of those bands before tds and i remain a fan now. Its funny i remember when tds came out how there was a big anti nin from people who had been fans for so long. They claimed he had gone all poppy and mainstream which i always found hilarious since PHM was the most pop sounding album he has ever done, where tds though like all his stuff had a pop setup , was much more dissjointed and progressive( though i hate using that word).

Though i wasnt a huge fan of the fragile it had its moments and i thought wt always had alot of great tracks, i thought trent had become too sunk into the industry to really do what he once did. This album changes that as far as im concerned. I love it , its not as dark wave as PHM but it has a great groove to it and theres some new directions and suprises that really makes an imprint..i think the almost motownish chorus hidden behind the fuzz is spectacular in zero sum and id really like to see him move in that direction in the second part.

I also like the theme. People are so uppity about anyone being political these days , Its pretty sad people feel that way ( avoid all exchanges of ideas at all costs)

But all of that is nil to the point anyway, all i ever hear is , having any politics in music is a mistake or shouldnt be done , but i only ever hear that in this country. Politics aside , whats music anymore then the vocalization of your , dreams , hopes fears , beliefs etc. It kind of irks me when people say dont add any politics into music its liek saying " dont sing about what you think or feel"

Of course this album is only somewhat political anyway, Caital G is probably the only real song that resonates in that area the most is a science fiction 1984 "what could happen if we are not careful" storyline .

Its a fun one too. I think it a great new direction and hopefully gives him a chance to expand into other areas too. I remember in an interview long ago he said when NIN is done he will most likely create movie soundtracks or soundtracks for other projects ( games)...looks like hes on his way.

Edited April 20, 2007 by SpacePirateNeko

[jenius]

NIN is pop? Then why the hell isn't there a NIN night on American Idol?? Now that would be entertaining! I agree with Space Pirate on the Ministry comment, I have to stretch my memory long and hard to remember a moment when they were relevant. If I had to label NIN it would be "sanitized industrial emo rock." I would definitely stop short of pop though. While NIN has become quite popular I never got the feeling it was crafted purely with the intent to sale to nearly as wide an audience as it has.

[SpacePirateNeko]

I think you misunderstand what i mean by pop.

I love pop music...its just that the name seems to imply something else these days....pop isnt and has never been a genre.

Most nin songs have a catchy verse and chorus underneath all of them, though the songs themselves arent always set up in a standard pop format.

If you can remember teh song and find yoruself singing it chances are its pop music. If its the sound of someone repeatedly beating a toaster with a baseball bat for 6 hours ( throbbing gristle) its probably moved far out of the realm of pop music.

Pop needs to stop having such a nasty connotation in america..its really not liek that in other countries ive been to.

[drifand]

For a different take on NIN, please visit:

http://www.sadkermit.com/audio.html

[Excillon]

Ministry has done something more relevant. While they could have kept that platnum Psalm 69 sound, or even the high tech Mind is... sound, they chose to go minimalist and make grindcore music, which love it or hate it, you have to respect that they chose art they wanted to make over money. And Rio Grande Blood is a great album, I highly recommend it. As for NIN, so if I understand it correctly, he ripped off a Biafra mentality and catchy A-A rhyming, ripped off ministry's guitar riffs (survivalism), ripped off Skinny Puppy/242's technostyles (random but structured sequences and samples), Fear Factory's "post apocalyptic" concept albums "demanufacture, obsolete, and digimortal), and he get's glorified for this? HE'S A *%*% HACK!!!!!!!!! Nothing but a rip off artist, I still think SP should've sued his ass over "Down in it/Dig it". I don't hate Trent for making anything mainstream, I hate him because people give him credit as an artist while all the truly great ones before him get ignored, when the fact is that if it wasn't for Al Jourgensen Trent wouldn't be able to program a VCR. And what does he do to give back to the people he ripped off? NOTHING. Well wait, he did manage to destroy Pop Will Eat Itself, which was the greatest band in the history of rock music IMO.

To surmise, Al Jourgensen said it best in an interview last year pardon the language: "You know what would be really fun?! Watching those sad motherf***ers Reznor and Morrisey playing Russian Roulette. Just have to make sure every chamber in that F***ing gun is loaded..."

[HoveringCheesecake]

Year Zero is the first NIN album that I own and I like it. I'm a latecomer... plus when The Downward Spiral came out I was only 6 years old.

My favorites:

Hyperpower!

Survivalism

The Good Soldier

Capital G

God Given

Meet Your Master

Zerio-Sum

The only track that really bugs me is The Great Destroyer. The second half of the song annoys me.

[capt.actionjackson]

I'm a latecomer... plus when The Downward Spiral came out I was only 6 years old.

I suddenly feel ancient. Like I should have be looking for my AARP card ancient. Damn you whippersnapper and your rock and roll!!!

[HoveringCheesecake]

lol sorry. That wasn't my intention. I just wanted to point out that I'm not a NIN expert like some of the people.

[Excillon]

lol sorry. That wasn't my intention. I just wanted to point out that I'm not a NIN expert like some of the people.

Damn, I remember seeing NIN at Lollapalooza 1...I really am old.

[SpacePirateNeko]

Excillon if your going to quote someone make sure you dont hype it up and add a bunch of expletives to it to make it sound more dynamic.

What he said wasnt nice but it went more like this ..

So lets get this whole "ripped" off thing out of the way, because lets face it , its something people say in order to gain a bit of credibility that somehow the music they listen to is the "real deal". I enjoy alot of the music you mentioned but theres no one mentioned there who didnt rip off someone or wasnt highly influenced from someone.

Ministry were a dark new wave band until they got into some heavier music and decided they were going to be heavier too. I love skinny Puppy and Throbbing Gristle who came before them.

The point is trent hasnt ripped off anyone. WHen you rip someone off you try and hide the fact you ripped them off, you dont mention in every article written about you where every song came from and what influenced it.

You know why you think down in it was a rip off of Digg it? Because trent reznor has said in about 200 interviews thats where he got the song from. Of course without him saying that i doubt anyone would find many simialrities they are very different with the exception of the title. The opening from closer is from iggy pops nightclubbing, also mention in a billion and a half articles...as is his love for minsitry and skinny puppy.

Nah people are just bitter that he became famous off of something that was once sacred ( massive eye roll) and "underground"

Theres no sound that hasnt been done before...so the whole "this is unoriginal" is a joke to me , ive heard it all. I only care if you take whats available and do something good with it. After 10 listens i absolutely love Year Zero , its grown on me alot. I dont care about whats "hoakey " or not , im not flakey enough to honestly believe that things like that matter.

The two bands ive been giving alot of time to right now are camera obscura and asobi seksu. They do nothing original...the first sounds like 60s girl pop meets 90s britpop with some velvet underground thrown in.

The latter does nothing My Bloody Valentine and Lush werent doing in the late 80s early 90s,,,but god they do it absolutely beautifully and thier new album hasnt come out of a listening device since it arrived last year.

Oh and tell mr jourgensan im going to see morrissey in vegas in june, because his shows are wonderful.

[HoveringCheesecake]

I'm just going to bump an old thread because I know that the NIN fans will take a look when it goes back to the top. (Not sure if I could even post a thread for a particular band.)

Year Zero introduced me to Trent's other stuff. Now, I have a question: Why the hell are Pretty Hate Machine and The Fragile so expensive??? Pretty Hate Machine goes for either $17 for an import or $26 for the re-release (I think). The Fragile is $26.

I really want those albums, but holy crap that's an expensive album.

[Nied]

I'm just going to bump an old thread because I know that the NIN fans will take a look when it goes back to the top. (Not sure if I could even post a thread for a particular band.)

Year Zero introduced me to Trent's other stuff. Now, I have a question: Why the hell are Pretty Hate Machine and The Fragile so expensive??? Pretty Hate Machine goes for either $17 for an import or $26 for the re-release (I think). The Fragile is $26.

I really want those albums, but holy crap that's an expensive album.

The Fragile is expensive because it's a double album (although due to Trent Reznor being in the depths of a drug addiction there's really about a single album's worth of good material), Pretty Hate machine was recently caught in the middle of a pretty dragged out rights dispute, it's possible that the price went up because of that.

[Nied]

I suddenly feel ancient. Like I should have be looking for my AARP card ancient. Damn you whippersnapper and your rock and roll!!!

Damn, I remember seeing NIN at Lollapalooza 1...I really am old.

I can remember about 7 years ago being at an airshow standing in line to get into the cockpit of a C-5 and having my "Perfect Drug" T-shirt spark a conversation about the whole Halo numbering system with the guy standing behind me. He had a good 10-15 years on me and a pair of kids in tow. The funny thing is in a few short years I'll probably be that guy.

[jenius]

I used to race cars and "Perfect Drug" was one hell of an anthem. Man, those were the days.... and they were many days ago.

[HoveringCheesecake]

Looks like I'll have to spring the extra cash then.

And hey! I like The Fragile!

[Max Jenius]

Just another step down in NIN's descent into sucktitude. I used to be a fan, but I really don't like any of Trent's new stuff.

[HoveringCheesecake]

Just another step down in NIN's descent into sucktitude. I used to be a fan, but I really don't like any of Trent's new stuff.

My, my; how bitter. As a new fan I enjoy most of his music. Pretty Hate Machine is my favorite, though. I just purchased The Downward Spiral and SURPRISINGLY I don't really like it... Perhaps it'll grow on me.

I really like The Fragile, but I haven't heard much of With Teeth. Any good?

Maybe I'm just weird - but I think The Fragile has some great songs:

The Great Below

The Wretched

The Day The World Went Away

Just Like You Imagined (in fact I have the 300 trailers to thank for getting me interested in NIN)

Starfarters, Inc.

Okay, so it's a double album and I only like five songs so far. But I *really* like them.

EDIT: And so I don't derail the thread and get it locked - has anyone heard any news regarding Year Zero's follow up album?

Edited July 13, 2007 by meh_cd

[drifand]

I'm not a 'long time fan' of NIN but rather one who took a long time to grow to like the body of work. The oldest 3 will always be the most intense in terms of content and intent, produced when Trent was raw, naive (maybe) and young. I enjoyed With Teeth but along with Year Zero, I feel the songs are too topical and lack the timeless appeal of the older material. There are still a couple of potential classics like Beside You In Time and Right Where It Belongs from WT that have that same emotional quality of the best from The Fragile. YZ, I feel, still hasn't got anything that can stand apart from the slightly corny 'concept story'.

And one more thing, meh_cd, you should try to get hold of 'Still' (Halo 17), the 'acoustic' performance of several classics plus a couple of new tracks. I got mine as part of the AATCHB live concert DVD set. Absolutely brilliant if you enjoyed the best bits from The Fragile.

Edited July 13, 2007 by drifand

[HoveringCheesecake]

I'm not a 'long time fan' of NIN but rather one who took a long time to grow to like the body of work. The oldest 3 will always be the most intense in terms of content and intent, produced when Trent was raw, naive (maybe) and young. I enjoyed With Teeth but along with Year Zero, I feel the songs are too topical and lack the timeless appeal of the older material. There are still a couple of potential classics like Beside You In Time and Right Where It Belongs from WT that have that same emotional quality of the best from The Fragile. YZ, I feel, still hasn't got anything that can stand apart from the slightly corny 'concept story'.

And one more thing, meh_cd, you should try to get hold of 'Still' (Halo 17), the 'acoustic' performance of several classics plus a couple of new tracks. I got mine as part of the AATCHB live concert DVD set. Absolutely brilliant if you enjoyed the best bits from The Fragile.

I agree 100% with your assessment of Year Zero and With Teeth.

And I will look into it for sure! As you can see, I enjoyed many of the slower songs from The Fragile.

[Nied]

Maybe I'm just weird - but I think The Fragile has some great songs:

The Great Below

The Wretched

The Day The World Went Away

Just Like You Imagined (in fact I have the 300 trailers to thank for getting me interested in NIN)

Starfarters, Inc.

Okay, so it's a double album and I only like five songs so far. But I *really* like them.

That's kind of my point. The Fragile has some excellent songs, don't get me wrong. Off the top of my head I'd add The Big Comedown, The Frail (can't have The Wretched without The Frail) and We're in This Together (we played that one at our wedding) to your list. It's just that like I said there's about an album's worth of those songs spread through two CDs. Songs like Please, Even Deeper, and The Mark Has Been Made (which is really just a re-tread of Just Like You Imagined) dilute what could have been a stellar album into just a good one. It's like Trent decided to mix the all the material that would normally go into a B-sides compilation into the the album. Like I said he was near hitting the bottom of his drug addiction at that point, and I'm told that one of the problems people have at that point are making decisions on what's important and what's not, and that definitely shows in the album. It's interesting to think how the album might have come out had TR not been drugged out of his mind.

[Nied]

And one more thing, meh_cd, you should try to get hold of 'Still' (Halo 17), the 'acoustic' performance of several classics plus a couple of new tracks. I got mine as part of the AATCHB live concert DVD set. Absolutely brilliant if you enjoyed the best bits from The Fragile.

Don't forgett to pick up AATCHB while you're at it and Beside You in Time. Live NiN is one hell of an experience and until they come back to the States those are probabvly the best ways to get an idea of what it's like. The BYIT version of Closer is definetly my all time favorite version of that song.