CM's Corporation Legioss/TREAD.

[Vermillion21]

Since the green and red versions are exclusives, they probably will be ... not sure about the blue version.

[jenius]

The CF 1/60 VF-1 was a TRU exclusive and it wasn't hard to come by. I imagine that there will be a while where all will be easily had (maybe not at much of a discount) but then things could get tough down the line.

[hutch]

One thing...if one WERE interested in preordering this, where might one do that?

[eriku]

One thing...if one WERE interested in preordering this, where might one do that?

Come on, you know you want to.

YOU BUY NOW!

Edited February 10, 2008 by eriku

[hutch]

THANKS! Couldn't find it on there. Much appreciated!

[Vermillion21]

Seeing the link-up pics again on the pre-order link that eriku provided ... meh. I can't believe it looks so poor, WTF???

Edited February 10, 2008 by Vermillion21

[jenius]

I'm pretty sure that HLJ shot is of the prototype as it looks a little more rough than some of the newer pics we've seen.

[MechTech]

I was shopping around at HLJ and saw that others were buying it. I checked out the link and could only think, "what scale is that, it looks like a little toy!" I was disappointed to say the least. That HUGE connecting bar is...HUGE. And it should be white from what I recall from the anime. It looks like they fixed some sculpts, but at that price...phew! I'll have to wait IF IT DOES look better... - MT

[konimon]

That HUGE connecting bar is...HUGE. And it should be white from what I recall from the anime. It looks like they fixed some sculpts, but at that price...phew! I'll have to wait IF IT DOES look better... - MT

Indeed, the connecting bar shouldn't be left unpainted.

Not sure if this was discussed, but I am also wondering where the bar went when in armo-soldier mode.

[crasis]

Hey guys, forgive me if this has been discussed previously in this thread, but do we have an estimated size of these figures? In vehicle and soldier modes? I'm still debating on these, but size may be the dealbreaker.

Thanks!

[jenius]

1/48 scale was the rumor, should put them at about the size of the Toynami MPC. The Beta is wrong though, it's smaller than 1/48 scale.

[hutch]

I looked WAAAY back in the thread earlier today and it was purported by someone that somebody who'd seen them at a toy show said that the Alpha was about the same size as the Toynami MPs.

[danth]

Question for anyone who knows: Is the Tread cockpit/nose in bomber mode also the head in robot mode? They look so similar, I always wanted to think they were the same part.

[CoryHolmes]

Question for anyone who knows: Is the Tread cockpit/nose in bomber mode also the head in robot mode? They look so similar, I always wanted to think they were the same part.

Not quite. The nose/cockpit folds straight down and is covered by an armoured plate. The head unit rises out from the top of the fusulage and the missle rack pops up behind that.

[eyesonme78]

Counting down to release ......

[eyesonme78]

counting down to a good review and delivery of the legioss/tread to my house!! MUahahahaahahah!!!!!!

[Roy's Blues]

Add one more to the pre-order list. I think the legs are mistransformed, and I have always wanted one of these sets.

[Ignacio Ocamica]

The first one to get the set MUST post tons of pictures!!!

I sure will when I get mine

[eriku]

I'll definitely post pics when mine comes in. I'm even more excited for it now that I've handled the CMs Ride Armor.

[Roger]

Almost sixty pages! Does the fun ever start?

I think it's ironic that when Toynami released pics of their Masterpiece Alphas, they were accused of ripping off the Imai kit. Then when another company applies their own style to the design, they get bashed for being too different.

Can anyone please anyone else? Obviously not.

[jenius]

The Imai kit is awesome, I think the accusation that should have been leveled at Toynami is that they weren't making the toy big enough. I do think that's where a lot of that "ripping off" criticism was really gunning for because people were unhappy with the size of the model and wanted Toynami to do something more comparable in size to the Gakken 1/35. On the other hand, I think if Toynami showed us this Legioss/Tread combo we all would have been demanding they had just used the Imai kit... So what's the answer? The Imai kit in 1/35 scale people!!! (of course, with all the little tweaks that the improved size would allow like much more articulation).

[EXO]

Almost sixty pages! Does the fun ever start?

I think it's ironic that when Toynami released pics of their Masterpiece Alphas, they were accused of ripping off the Imai kit. Then when another company applies their own style to the design, they get bashed for being too different.

Can anyone please anyone else? Obviously not.

So what does that complaint accomplish? That we complain too much?

I like the look of the Toynami Alpha. It's the fit and the breakage I hate... which would be a major complaint for any transforming toy.

[eugimon]

Almost sixty pages! Does the fun ever start?

I think it's ironic that when Toynami released pics of their Masterpiece Alphas, they were accused of ripping off the Imai kit. Then when another company applies their own style to the design, they get bashed for being too different.

Can anyone please anyone else? Obviously not.

it's not enough to do something different, you also need to do it well.

[Shaggydog]

This is a peculiarity of MacrossWorld, I must say. I'm not aware of any other toy forum where so much energy is focused on complaining about toys. In most places, it suffices to enter a single negative post (for example, "No good, I'm not buying it, for the following reasons:" or "this toy is too fragile, and the following things broke:"), and then move along. On Macrossworld, the toy must be reviled, despised, and insulted, along with the creator, his mother, his dog and his postman. Eternal damnation must be cursed upon all those in the company and their descendants and heirs. Holy war is declared on anyone who refuses to convert to the side of truth, and rhetorical grenades are tossed heedlessly into the ranks of the doubtful. Unremitting and unending warfare must continue zealously while even the possibility of a disagreement in a sliver of one man's mind persists. Unfunny humor must be employed to degrade the infamous name of the offending company, and a petulant squeal of rage must be chorused by a thousand angry fanboys, no matter on the first time round or the ten thousandth.

[eugimon]

yup, we complain about toys and manufacturers, almost as much as we get lectured about complaining about toys.

Seriously though. If you're a gundam fan or a TF fan, or whatever, you know that every month there will be a glut of new toys. There's always something out. And the prices are fairly reasonable. But here, we tend to focus on franchises that haven't gotten much of a push for the last 20 years. And the stuff that does come out, costs a fair deal more than the typical transformer or gundam... so we go into far more detail in our critiques and since we're paying a lot, we expect a lot.

Frankly, I would be sad if MW goes the way of some other sites, where every POS toy release gets a ridiculous 9/10 or 10/10. "sure it doesn't look anything like it does in the show... sure it has no posability, sure the mold is actually a simple retool of a 5 year old sculpt, but this is ANOTHER 10/10 from hasbro/takara!"

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

This is a peculiarity of MacrossWorld, I must say. I'm not aware of any other toy forum where so much energy is focused on complaining about toys. In most places, it suffices to enter a single negative post (for example, "No good, I'm not buying it, for the following reasons:" or "this toy is too fragile, and the following things broke:"), and then move along. On Macrossworld, the toy must be reviled, despised, and insulted, along with the creator, his mother, his dog and his postman. Eternal damnation must be cursed upon all those in the company and their descendants and heirs. Holy war is declared on anyone who refuses to convert to the side of truth, and rhetorical grenades are tossed heedlessly into the ranks of the doubtful. Unremitting and unending warfare must continue zealously while even the possibility of a disagreement in a sliver of one man's mind persists. Unfunny humor must be employed to degrade the infamous name of the offending company, and a petulant squeal of rage must be chorused by a thousand angry fanboys, no matter on the first time round or the ten thousandth.

That sounds about right. But to be honest it's not like the only forum in the world that does this. Go to any game forum where there are regular console war debates which end up turning into insults on intelligence, age, education level, sexual preference, tastes etc

I promise you, if you don't have a thick skin to survive this tame place, you won't survive in other much worse places than here where mods freely allow people to go about personally insulting each other and it forms part of the entertainment factor of coming back to see what new stuff has been posted. The mods here do a good job of keeping it civil at least. Most of the people that do complain, I would say have genuine beefs and not just whining for the sake of it. They just have a passion for the mecha they want done in toy form. (eg with the small hands comment for all the yamato macross toys, or cracked arms for the vf-0)

The good thing about the complaints though is these beefs are being answered somewhat: there is now more choice in what you can buy than years ago when there was less.

I think the complaints are good since they serve as an early warning for people who may base their buying decision on things like breakages or loose limb, or inaccurate sculpt. Maybe people are spoilt, but if those things are important, then better to mention them now before people put down money than to have that disappointed person complain after they have bought the thing and whine all day about how they could have bought something much better with the money. I want to hear about the complaints as it keeps me informed about stuff that I find will be the basis for whether I make the decision to purchase something.

I'm looking forward to reviews of this toy, especially in the area durability. I probably won't ever try linking them though. I think it looks fake when they try to haha. Hopefully other companies do try to one up CMs and give us the durability we all need from a transforming toy, combined with the accuracy to lineart that fans of the mecha keep pushing for.

Edited February 11, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[JsARCLIGHT]

That is because here at MW we constantly engage in conversational physics: for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Some people, such as myself, do not like it when someone with a vastly opposite opinion of myself or someone else criticizes or belittles their opinion as if it has no merit simply because it is the opposite of the one they have. This thread is a prime example. Many people here do not like the look or the price of this toy while many people here DO like the look and price of this toy... both sides would probably be content to just say their peace about it and leave it at that, but you have certain elements on both sides who keep stirring the pot. And once someone on one side does it, the other side has to "answer". It dies down again eventually and then someone has to step in and stir the pot again.

It all comes down to people feeling that someone else thinks their opinion is "wrong". There are no wrong opinions, just points of view. I honestly have only been responding in this thread when I perceive there being a post containing "weasel words" that "draw me back in". Let's face it, both the lovers and the haters here are so very adept at weasel wording the other side back into the thread. Posts like "gee, isn't there anything else for you guys to complain about" or "heck, you guys will just buy anything won't you" and the like are weasel word posts intended to "get the goat" of the folks on the "other side of the isle" which draw those people back into the fray feeling they must retort. THAT is why we have threads like this on MacrossWorld, pure and simple. The lovers can't let the haters hate and the haters can't let the lovers love... it's a vicious circle. We all just have to agree to disagree... we have to accept that folks on both sides have valid reasons for liking or disliking this toy "even though it isn't out yet" and that nothing either side says is going to convince the other to swich sides. As such I propose an injunction against any further weasel wording or baiting until this toy comes out and someone reviews it. This is just going to keep going back and forth between the lovers and the haters until we get a flame war started.

[eriku]

I promise you, if you don't have a thick skin to survive this tame place, you won't survive in other much worse places than here where mods freely allow people to go about personally insulting each other and it forms part of the entertainment factor of coming back to see what new stuff has been posted. The mods here do a good job of keeping it civil at least.

Yep. Although there are lots of complaints here and people tend to get rankled easily, it still manages to stay relatively civil and the mods rarely if ever let things escalate to critical mass. I actually stopped posting at a Transformers forum that shall go unnamed *cough*TFW2005*cough* because I didn't like the way their mods not only allowed continual insults but actually took part in it themselves. I was getting railed and assulted by people all because I replied in a couple of different iPod threads about the problems I had with my iPod. And my comments weren't of the "OMFG IPODZ LIEK TOTALLY SUCZ!!" (which in hindsight was probably the problem since that's basically their language over there) variety, they were simple lists of what had gone wrong, what I did to try and fix it, how nothing worked, and how I eventually returned it feeling very disappointed. I even went so far as to say I'd never let my bad experience prevent me from buying another one. They didn't want to hear ANY dissent against the iPod and the verbal abuse fired at me was truly childish and unwarranted. I even got called a "f**cking idiot" by one of their lead Mods. That was pretty much the last straw and I left. Aside from my own experience I've seen a lot of the same kind of nonsense going on there (and other forums, to be fair).

I have to admit that I get irritated sometimes by the large amount of negativity in this forum, but the negative comments are at least intelligent and come from people who's opinions that, even though I may not agree with, I respect. I do feel people are being over-critical of the CM's Legioss, especially when I compare recent comments to those left when the thread started, which were almost all in the "Looks Great!" category, even though the thing looks essentially the same now as it did then. I understand the complaints people have, I just don't share them. I don't think anyone here is less intelligent for not liking it, and I expect to not be treated like an idiot or like I have no taste or lowered expectations just because I DO like it. I would love a 100% line-art accurate 1/35 Legioss, too. I just happen to like the smooth edges and 'different' take on it that CM's went with.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

As an example of stupid debates: watch the various games forums when GTA 4 finally comes out, and pay special attention to "comparison" threads. You will start to see lots of arguments between xbox 360 fanboys and ps3 fanboys over whose version of the game is better. Those kinds of threads go on for pages and pages and all kinds of anal-retentives who get pissed at the slightest little thing will start highlighting all the tiny little details that nobody else (who is just going to enjoy the game) notices.

Part of the debates are ego/d!ck measuring contest for sure.

Part of it is genuine criticism/concern that "it could have been better if only..."

The former is usually the bad type where it gets personal. (people should ignore these types, it could just be troll bait)

The latter highlights genuine weaknesses that might actually be of interest to people who are complaining about something important that they just wish wasn't there. (no personal insults, these are just people who see technical flaws that could be addressed and aren't out to bash people)

I'm ok with the latter but the former is more the stuff that worries me. (those who get angry if someone insults your fave company brand or whatever need to chill - try not to take it personally, don't feed the troll! It's just a trap. They may just be joking to get your attention or gain entertainment from your reaction. That's when threads start getting locked up and people getting hurt because the troll loves to create chaos.)

Edited February 11, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[danth]

I can't take it anymore. I'm sorry if this offends anyone.

If you complain about people on internet toy forums bashing toys, you're just a douchebag.

Please.

F*cking.

Stop.

There's nothing wrong with praising or defending a toy. And there's nothing wrong with bitching or complaining about a toy. That's the whole point of internet toy forums. We're passionate, otherwise we woudn't be here.

But the old "if you don't like it then don't buy it" line is high douchebaggery. It really means "shut up." Seriously. If you're only happiness in life is buying toys, and our complaining is causing you to think critically about your purchases, you have my condolences, but we're not going to stop critiquing toys.

And no, complaining about toys is not nearly as common on Macrossworld as defending and apologizing for toys, or lectures on negativity. For every complainer there are five whiny crybabies who think their toy is being maligned.

PLEASE STOP THE CRYBABIES.

And now that I've complained about complaints about complainers, the circle is complete.

[EXO]

Danth! Thank you.

Finally someone i can praise. haha.

The problem lies with the people that complains about complaining. If I say a toy sucks, it's not until the next guy posts "how dare you" . That's when the compounding begins. If the reply was, "I love this toy because..." and doesnt try to trivialize my opinion with "oh your just biased because you don't like transformers/star wars/toynami" then it wouldn't be an argument. Well I'd say it would be less of an argument, because this is still Macrossworld.

I don't mind the arguments sometimes because you know what... WHATEVER IT IS PROBABLY DOES SUCK! haha.

[Ignacio Ocamica]

And now that I've complained about complaints about complainers, the circle is complete.

The circle is not complete!!

There's still someone who will complain that you complained about complaints about complainers

Does this make any sense?

I can't stand it anymore either. I'm waiting for the damned toy to be released.

[jenius]

Too many absolutes going on in this thread. Opinions may not be right or wrong but they can certainly be more or less justified. If I say to you "This CMs Legioss is balls, it's totally going to break the first time anyone handles it." Is that an opinion? I suppose. Is it an opinion you shouldn't totally rip on for being completely unjustified? Well, up until the release of the Ride Armors I might have (although I may have upset someone for picking on someone else's complaints). Yes, sometimes people it actually does make sense to point out flaws in other people's opinions (or to complain about complaints if you will). So long as everyone keeps it civil, what's the problem? Sometimes it even leads to new discoveries and brings to light other flaws/gimmicks that convince people to/not to make preorders.

[eriku]

If I'm defending a toy, or my opinion, it's not because I feel slighted or think the person who made the complaint is stupid, it's typically an effort to battle the ongoing flurry of exaggerations and misinterpretations. Why do that? Because bad information confuses people and I think things should be balanced and rational. It irritates me when things get blown out of proportion and something that starts out realistically as 'delicate' somehow becomes 'brittle'. It's the whole Purple Monkey Dishwasher phenomenon. If someone says "Toy X is a total piece of crap and will break if you touch it" and I have Toy X and have found it NOT to be that way, I'll challenge that statement, not because I 'feel my toy is being maligned' but simply to put more information out there. If anyone thinks that is 'whining' or 'complaining' then they probably like to use those terms too freely.

As for calling people crybabies...pot, kettle, black, etc.

[Sundown]

I do feel people are being over-critical of the CM's Legioss, especially when I compare recent comments to those left when the thread started, which were almost all in the "Looks Great!" category, even though the thing looks essentially the same now as it did then. I understand the complaints people have, I just don't share them. I don't think anyone here is less intelligent for not liking it, and I expect to not be treated like an idiot or like I have no taste or lowered expectations just because I DO like it. I would love a 100% line-art accurate 1/35 Legioss, too. I just happen to like the smooth edges and 'different' take on it that CM's went with.

For what it's worth, many of the comments saying the Legioss looked great were when we had yet to see the linkage, and when the pictures didn't show the leg transformation in fighter very well, or at least I didn't notice at the time, as no picture to date I've seen has shown the fighter mode from the bottom. I myself didn't say much then-- I appreciated the sculpt in soldier mode, but already had serious reservations about both the too-small intakes and the rounded styling. And from there, the more photos we saw, the more it was apparent to me that CMs was taking large, and in my opinion, wholly unneccessary liberties with the design. Added on top of my already-dislikes were fins that couldn't retract properly, improper arm transformation in linked mode, and finally, the improper transformation of the legs, reminicent to me of the compromises taken in 5-10 dollar toys in the 80's, which is in my opinion is unacceptable in a high-priced collector's toy. I didn't mind the linkage bar that some had issues with. And the tread itself is actually pretty well done, despite the complaints of some as soon as pictures were released. But as it stands, it is the most expensive transformable toy that I've encountered and had any remote interest in, and yet, it is the most innaccurate transformation wise, appears to take the most shortcuts engineering wise, and makes the most liberal interpretations sculpt wise of high-end toys.

EDIT: Now that I look back, pictures of the Legioss in fighter mode weren't even available at the beginning of the thread when some were praising it. The fins in soldier mode looked like what we hoped to be a case of mistransformation. Sadly, that's not the case.

If you like it, that's cool. There are a few things to like in the Legioss/Tread. Mainly the Tread. The Legioss has some style points lacking in the MPC version. But most others are seeing what they consider massive problems (and I tend to agree) not simply because they're slaves to line art.

Also understand that when you both say that you respect the opinions of those who disagree, then immediately judge the opinions of those who take issue with the CMs Legioss as being "over-critical" by implying that they are somewhat inconsistent, it begs for a response like JsARCLIGHT mentioned. Sort of like this one. =P

Edited February 12, 2008 by Sundown