spedfish Posted January 19, 2008 Posted January 19, 2008 I really like the way these look in Battroid mode, other than the intakes being too small. I like the vibrant colors they've used also. Its too bad those knees stick out like that in fighter mode tho. In this pic you can see how the leg transforms into itself You can see how the knee is a curved piece, that lets the upper leg kinda swivel into the lower half. Theres no way that can compare to all previous Alpha toys and models with the telescoping legs. Sadly I think the Fighter pics are not mis-transformed
Lynx7725 Posted January 19, 2008 Posted January 19, 2008 Hmm. I was about to post about how the kneecaps look to be mis-transformed, but the last back shot of the Zeta is intersting. Looks to be the thighs do not telescope in and out the way I remember the Toynami versions do (but my memory might be off). It looks like the thighs are designed to fold backwards into the lower legs, but given the size of the hole and length of the thigh, I don't think there's enough room for the thigh to fully swing into the lower legs. So yeah, the lower legs might stick that far out.. Another question is that we can see the lower legs to be essentially hollow. As a mostly plastic toy, it has to be a bit top heavy -- unless the upper torso is mostly hollow as well. That does bring up questions of durability.
danth Posted January 19, 2008 Posted January 19, 2008 You know, as much as people bash Toynami, their Alpha is one heck of a beautiful toy. It's pretty well designed, even if the QC is lacking. I know mine had no problems. Looking at the comparison pics Alpha OTS posted, the Toynami really nails the Legioss in Armo Soldier mode (not to mention Fighter mode). The CM just looks goofy in comparison. But I want to know where the heck that back shot came from, spedfish. Hell of a first post.
spedfish Posted January 19, 2008 Posted January 19, 2008 I found that pic in the link Eriku supplied. I've been lurking here for years, especially anything Mospeada related, huge fan of the show and mecha. Its a damn shame it transforms like that, fighter mode would look sweet. I really want to get one of these, there are so many things wrong with them though, that have been done better many years ago. How do things get worse instead of being improved upon? Strange.
Alpha OTS Posted January 19, 2008 Posted January 19, 2008 Yikes, that back shot makes it look worse, imo. Not primarily because of the leg transformation, but because it shows the leg's hollow, and that coupled with the colors are really giving me a "cheap" vibe.
Sundown Posted January 19, 2008 Posted January 19, 2008 The legs don't telescope? Wow. Wow. Just wow. It would have saved so much grief if they would simply telescope-- not to mention make for a much better link-up. The least they could have done was to add a hatch at the rear of the legs to allow the thighs to fold in and conceal the folding like Yamato did with their 1/48 hands.
SuperHobo Posted January 19, 2008 Posted January 19, 2008 I really like the way these look in Battroid mode, other than the intakes being too small. I like the vibrant colors they've used also. Its too bad those knees stick out like that in fighter mode tho. In this pic you can see how the leg transforms into itself You can see how the knee is a curved piece, that lets the upper leg kinda swivel into the lower half. Theres no way that can compare to all previous Alpha toys and models with the telescoping legs. Sadly I think the Fighter pics are not mis-transformed This picture of the legioss in solider mode is very disturbing. Not only does the hollow legs give a cheap vibe, but also a questionable durability problem. If the joints in that area of the leg and knees are not ratcheted this toy will have some overall problems standing up or taking nose dives backwards as there is nothing there behind it too fully secure it. I hope CMs pays special attention to the legs here. I have CMs Gaogaigo Brave Gokin figure and it has a similar problem to whats happening with the legioss here. Granted the Gaogaigo has a lot of metal and a nice paint job, but the legs collapse on its own weight because the theres nothing under the knee area to support it from falling in. Not to mention the hips being rather loose. Hopefully CMs will make the joints super tight and have a good locking system for those legs. Yes some Final product pictures would be nice because all of the pictures we've seen are still either in the prototype stage or near finished.
Kyp Durron Posted January 19, 2008 Posted January 19, 2008 It appears that the knee caps don't slide in closer to the body in fighter mode like the Toynami MPC Alpha's do. And that's a damned shame, because it's something that isn't hard to incorporate into the design. -Kyp
eriku Posted January 19, 2008 Posted January 19, 2008 I kind of like that the legs don't telescope, less chance of them collapsing. And the bright colors are one of the selling points of these things for me because they evoke the cartoon nature of the anime more than the current Legioss toys do. Although I've always liked the dark almost olive drab of the old Gakken, even if it's not 'anime accurate'. And a couple points about Toynami's being a beautiful design: For one, it's not their design (it was based on a kit) so they can't really take any credit for it, and for two, it has so many gaps and holds together so poorly that most of them look like broken-down wrecks, which ruins any of the nice aesthetics the design has.
jenius Posted January 19, 2008 Posted January 19, 2008 It's been said before but since all this design talk is coming up again, the Toynami design is too sophisticated for the scale... which means you can easily argue it's poorly designed. If it were a much bigger toy it might be perfect. It might even be a perfect design if Toynami had a beautiful manufacturing process that kept all toys to be built within precise tolerances. As it is, with Toynami being only capable fo constructing shoddy products, they needed to make their design much simpler than they did. I think I described the Toynami MPC Alpha in my review as being "overly ambitious" and I'd stick with that description. They tried for a lot... and screwed up a lot in the process. CMs seems to be going pretty far in the opposite direction but questionably so. They kept a bunch of gratuitous gimmicks (missile doors), surrendered some necessary features (fins collapsing into the arms), and made some very odd decisions (leg transformation). In the end I think it's a lot easier and more durable to have a toy that doesn't have collapsing bits, there tends to be way more pressure involved with telescoping parts. Sadly, I don't think you can eschew collapsing bits with the Legioss design so I wish CMs wouldn't have gone this way. There are so many WTF areas on this toy. I'll always look at my Toynamis and think "If only you were made of better materials to exact tolerances" and I get the feeling I'll look over at my CMs and think "If only they had tried to be more true to the design."
Hiriyu Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 ... And a couple points about Toynami's being a beautiful design: For one, it's not their design (it was based on a kit) so they can't really take any credit for it, and for two, it has so many gaps and holds together so poorly that most of them look like broken-down wrecks, which ruins any of the nice aesthetics the design has. Whether it was their "original" sculpt or not, the fact is that Toynami actually DID produce a Legioss with at least some attempt at accuracy, which is much more than can be said for this latest CMs offering. While it is well-known that many have had their issues with the Toynami Legioss' build quality, my own experience has been mostly positive, and they display just fine when correctly transformed. I wouldn't qualify any of mine as looking like "broken-down wrecks". But again, that's just my opinion.
eriku Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 (edited) Whether it was their "original" sculpt or not, the fact is that Toynami actually DID produce a Legioss with at least some attempt at accuracy, which is much more than can be said for this latest CMs offering. While it is well-known that many have had their issues with the Toynami Legioss' build quality, my own experience has been mostly positive, and they display just fine when correctly transformed. I wouldn't qualify any of mine as looking like "broken-down wrecks". But again, that's just my opinion. If CMs Legioss has no attempt at accuracy, what does it look like, an artichoke? Edited January 20, 2008 by eriku
Twoducks Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 If CMs Legioss has no attempt at accuracy, what does it look like, an artichoke? I blame EXO!
Mog Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 If CMs Legioss has no attempt at accuracy, what does it look like, an artichoke? No, an inaccurate and EXPENSIVE approximation of a Legioss that took a few too many liberties and should have been designed using CAD.
eyesonme78 Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 well i think at least give CM some credit for it's design.. well at least it did came out... right? We will be seeing the legioss and tread in the feb period.. well.. at least.. Well side track abit anyone managed to get sellers to help purchase the the green legioss and tread? I have gotten my seller to help me out, at least he's a local.. how abt you guys? I mean for those interested.. =) Sorry to side track .. heehee/..
hutch Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 That pretty much does it. Completely and surely no deal for me. I may even order a Toynami one or two and just handle them like they're made of porcelain.
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 Toynami based theirs off an existing model kit. CM's made something out of nowhere. There was bound to be differences. CMs has some disturbing design inaccuracies, but from what SaveRobotech said, it sounds like it will be a very durable toy. It may be inaccurate to the Legioss lineart, but its far from looking like a toy for 4 year olds.
hutch Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 Toynami based theirs off an existing model kit. CM's made something out of nowhere. There was bound to be differences. CMs has some disturbing design inaccuracies, but from what SaveRobotech said, it sounds like it will be a very durable toy. It may be inaccurate to the Legioss lineart, but its far from looking like a toy for 4 year olds. VERY VERY RICH 4 year olds.
SuperHobo Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 VERY VERY RICH 4 year olds. At least the CM's version looks to have a nice simple not so overly complicated transformation. The few sculpt flaws don't bother me too much except those damn hollow legs. I just hope the paint and finish on the final product will look dazzling!
kensei Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 I was debating or not whether to buy it, but now this buries the hatchet, I will not after I saw those hollow legs. One day, someone will offer a great Tlead and Legioss, one day.
danth Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 And a couple points about Toynami's being a beautiful design: For one, it's not their design (it was based on a kit) so they can't really take any credit for it Toynami improved the old model's design quite a bit. They made the wing root flush with the top of the shoulders, made the hinges for the wings invisible, and added hinges to the vertical stabs so they could tilt outwards, among other things. Just look at this pic and tell me the Toynami doesn't look a hundred times better. and for two, it has so many gaps and holds together so poorly that most of them look like broken-down wrecks, which ruins any of the nice aesthetics the design has. The majority of reviews of Toynami toys are extremely biased. They're nowhere near as bad as you hear. All my Toynamis are all fine; no gaps or pieces falling off.
Shun Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 actually to be fair, the prototype pics from some time ago in HJ (showing all the various offerings for mospeada), there were pics of the back of both legioss and tread, and the hollow legs were there too. so it seems like CM's didn't change anything including those ugly intakes... like many of u, i'm quite disappointed about the hollow legs too. now im wondering if i should get the green and red ones. PS > according to the CMS website: red zeta: limited quantity sale, preorders start end of march green iota: website sale (with limited quantity preorders at WF). Net preorders start 30th Jan, expected delivery date: early march
eriku Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 The majority of reviews of Toynami toys are extremely biased. They're nowhere near as bad as you hear. I'm sorry, but you're just laughably wrong there. Bias has absolutely nothing to do with toys that have parts breaking, parts already broken out of the box, poor paintjobs, terrible parts-fit, parts assembled incorrectly and loose joints. There have been overwhelming accounts of those problems, and that's just the flat out truth. Your comment pretty much ignores all of the photos that have been posted over the last few years. Or perhaps the cameras were just extremely biased?
protostar8 Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 I'm sorry, but you're just laughably wrong there. Bias has absolutely nothing to do with toys that have parts breaking, parts already broken out of the box, poor paintjobs, terrible parts-fit, parts assembled incorrectly and loose joints. There have been overwhelming accounts of those problems, and that's just the flat out truth. Your comment pretty much ignores all of the photos that have been posted over the last few years. Or perhaps the cameras were just extremely biased? I own one Alpah from them and it has some QC issues like the front end not sitting flat in jet mode. There are other problems too. Good Toynami Alpha's are the oddball ones and anyone who has 4 that are in great shape is extremely lucky.
danth Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 I'm sorry, but you're just laughably wrong there. Bias has absolutely nothing to do with toys that have parts breaking, parts already broken out of the box, poor paintjobs, terrible parts-fit, parts assembled incorrectly and loose joints. There have been overwhelming accounts of those problems, and that's just the flat out truth. Your comment pretty much ignores all of the photos that have been posted over the last few years. Or perhaps the cameras were just extremely biased? I'm not saying Toynami toys don't have problems. They're just exaggerated and blown out of all proportion, while problems with, say, Yamato toys are downplayed and quickly forgiven. And for every person complaining about their Toynami Alpha, there are many, many more people who have no problems with theirs and no reason to complain. The bias is understandable, given that Toynami is associated with "homowreck" and isn't even a Japanese company.
jenius Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 I've owned about a dozen Alphas, three were so bad they had to be returned to Toynami and at least another three were questionable. 50% pass/fail rate? I'm confident CMs will improve upon that ratio... I'm just sad that those few real quality Toynami MPC Alphas I have will probably still be preferred to this CMs piece.
danth Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 50% pass rate? It's that high? I would have expected about 5% pass rate based on what's said here on MacrossWorld. I'd argue that you would have sent the three "questionable" Alphas back to Toynami if they were really that bad, but a 75% pass rate is still horrible. On the other hand, a 75% pass rate means that 3 out of 4 Alphas are good, which is far better than what I hear from some around these parts.
jenius Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 Questionable certainly doesn't make for a good toy. That's stuff like crooked landing gears, really crooked heads, paint flaws, chips, etc. I'm a pretty relaxed collector, I'm sure there are many people that would have returned some toys I held on to. Of course, there are also people who wouldn't be bothered with that stuff. The problem with saying though that either half or 75% of the toys I own are in good shape is that they are only that way because I am scared to handle them. The hands fall apart, the front landing gear door can fall apart, and if you move the arms more than three times you'll never be able to get it to keep an out-stretched arm pose again. Let's not even get into how scary the arms are during transformation. I love the look of my MPC Alphas, and I appreciate what Toynami tried to do, but I'd never consider it a toy. I like it enough to have bought 12 of them so I could have 4 I considered excellent (and some extras). With CMs at least I think I can buy these toys and not have to freak out about how hard it will be to return if I get a lemon. That was always a concern with my Toynamis.
JsARCLIGHT Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 Such is the dilemma of consumerism. People who get "a good one" wonder what all the fuss is about and think everyone with a negative opinion must be lying... and the people who get "a bad one" believe there is no such thing as "a good one" and the people touting the merits of such a shitty toy must just be so accepting that you could poop in a bag and they'd be overjoyed to have it. The truth is always in the middle. Out of personal experience the Toynami Alpha I got was terrible. The one my friend got was terrible. Ergo my opinion of the toy is that it is terrible. Am I lying? No because the entirety of my first hand experience with this toy is negative. Do I believe there are people out there who got "good ones"? Yes... I and my friend just were not lucky enough to have gotten one. Had we been then perhaps we would be defending the honor of this obviously misrepresented and maligned wonderful toy. As for the CM's offering. I still pass. It needs to lose half it's price and gain double the scale for me to come back into the fold at this point. I can forgive a lot if the price was not so high and the size was not so small.
Kanedas Bike Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 Up for pre-order at HLJ; http://www.hlj.com/product/CMS65132 For the low, low price of $ 250 USD. -b.
SuperHobo Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 Up for pre-order at HLJ; http://www.hlj.com/product/CMS65132 For the low, low price of $ 250 USD. -b. Cool! But I wonder how much EMS shipping would be on this guy. X_X I wonder if any retailers in US are going to take pre-orders on this set. LOS and BBTS I'm looking at you guys!
eriku Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 Such is the dilemma of consumerism. People who get "a good one" wonder what all the fuss is about and think everyone with a negative opinion must be lying... and the people who get "a bad one" believe there is no such thing as "a good one" and the people touting the merits of such a shitty toy must just be so accepting that you could poop in a bag and they'd be overjoyed to have it. The truth is always in the middle. Out of personal experience the Toynami Alpha I got was terrible. The one my friend got was terrible. Ergo my opinion of the toy is that it is terrible. Am I lying? No because the entirety of my first hand experience with this toy is negative. Do I believe there are people out there who got "good ones"? Yes... I and my friend just were not lucky enough to have gotten one. Had we been then perhaps we would be defending the honor of this obviously misrepresented and maligned wonderful toy. I agree 100%. I've never denied that there are good ones out there. The reason I gambled with Toynami's Alphas and Aoshima's Legioss in the first place is based solely on my belief that there ARE good ones. I desperately wanted to be one of those lucky lottery winners. I base my current opinion on Toynami and their Alpha/Legioss first on my own personal experience with two lousy toys (and my definition of lousy isn't relative, these things were garbage), what I've read here, TFW2005, ToyboxDX, Robot-Japan and even Robotech.com. The reviews and opinions I've read are very much on the side of "crappy toy", and for good reasons, not "TOYNAMI IS THE SUXORZ!!" people, I don't count those. I am far, FAR from a picky collector. It doesn't bother me when a toy strays from lineart because typically lineart can bite my shiny metal ass when it comes to toys. I love artistic interpretation and I typically enjoy toys more that aren't made following lineart, using CAD or scanned by Gentile Giant. That's just my tastes and I don't expect everyone to feel the same way. Overall I just want a sturdy toy that holds together well, has tight joints, is nicely articulated, is put together correctly and looks enough like what it's supposed to look like that I wont mistake it for a Gobot. Toynami met almost none of those criteria for me, and CMs is looking to fit all of them (if the reports of sturdiness hold true). I'm happy some people got good Toynami Alphas. If I could be guaranteed of getting one that was perfect and had no issues I would pay $100 or more for it RIGHT NOW. That said, I happily Early Birded the CMs set. Now I just need to figure out what to sell before the payment request comes next month.
eriku Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 Cool! But I wonder how much EMS shipping would be on this guy. X_X I wonder if any retailers in US are going to take pre-orders on this set. LOS and BBTS I'm looking at you guys! I assume LAF Toys will be carrying it since they are selling the CM's Ride Armor. And I just emailed BBTS asking if they plan to carry it. Hopefully BBTS will carry it so I can use my store credit from the returned Aoshima Legioss towards it.
1/1 LowViz Lurker Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 With CMs at least I think I can buy these toys and not have to freak out about how hard it will be to return if I get a lemon. That was always a concern with my Toynamis. I'm disapointed in the aoshima version. I was hoping they were going to fix everything wrong with the toynamis.
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