Twoducks Posted January 16, 2008 Posted January 16, 2008 Well I find the combo looking better and better with each new batch of pics. The link up, while not the part I care the most, does look very good in that pic. The tailfins sticking out a bit might be a design liberty taken to harmonise the look of the Legios and the Tread. Remember that the Tread in the series (and the official line art and also the CM toy) has a bit of the wings sticking out in the arms. Since they already took liberties to stylize the look of both the Legios and Tread, maybe they also decided to share some unifying element in what is a couple of very different looking mecha. And having the arms able to space out in fighter mode makes the plane look much better. Maybe there are still other misstransformed parts. The only thing I don't like so far is the green and red ones being hard to get limited editions.
Kyp Durron Posted January 16, 2008 Posted January 16, 2008 (edited) Maybe you guys can just trim down the tailfins and repaint them? Unless someone can show me that those knee caps don't stick out from underneath the wings in single fighter mode (In the pic with the Blue Armo-Fighter), I'm not going to have to worry about doing anything like that at all. I'll just stick with my awesome MPC Shadow Fighter and wait for a MPC Sue Graham Shadow Beta to come out. I would ALMOST consider this if it weren't for the knee caps sticking out like that now that I know that the arms can be properly spaced out in fighter mode. Because that was what killed it for me the first time...and then I saw those Goddamned knee caps. -Kyp Edited January 16, 2008 by Kyp Durron
do not disturb Posted January 16, 2008 Posted January 16, 2008 bah! i don't care about the tailfins, the tailfins can be recasted in the correct size. my real concern is that price tag and what would make it worse if it was actually a good toy, then i'd have actually buy it for their ridiculous asking price.
hutch Posted January 16, 2008 Posted January 16, 2008 ... I'll just stick with my awesome MPC Shadow Fighter and wait for a MPC Sue Graham Shadow Beta to come out.... ... -Kyp Kyp, would you recommend the Shadow Fighter Alpha?
do not disturb Posted January 16, 2008 Posted January 16, 2008 I'm still bummed you can't turn the head! i really hope you're wrong. i thought the shoulders being in the way was another case of mistransformation, i mean who the heck makes a robot toy where the head doesn't turn? thats just retarded.
JsARCLIGHT Posted January 16, 2008 Posted January 16, 2008 Well, it's a difficult design to make the head turn. In the anime, when the Legioss' head turns that little radar pod thing turns with it. If you watch episode 1 of Mospeada there is a shot where you clearly see Stick's Eta turn it's head about 45 degrees to the side and the radar pod moves with it. The problem with the toys are that the radar pod is a separate piece that is permanently moored to the shoulder and it obstructs the Legioss' long head from turning left or right to any decent degree. Past "workarounds" to this design flaw have been to shorten the head or only allow the head to turn in very minute amounts. Then there is the complex mechanism connecting the head that allows it's transformation. The big problem with these toys are that the design itself uses so much squash and stretch and pure anime magic that creating faithful toys is very, very difficult. The guys who designed the Mospeada stuff did not exactly have the same anal retentiveness and mechanical discipline that a Shoji Kawamori has... there is a big difference between designing something to "work" and designing something to "look good". To a good degree I think it's kind of great that modern mecha anime is going over to 3D, that alone allows the designers to think three dimensionally and better create their art in a form that can translate into toys easier.
Kyp Durron Posted January 16, 2008 Posted January 16, 2008 (edited) Kyp, would you recommend the Shadow Fighter Alpha? I got mine from Jasonc here on the forums. He checks his to make sure they aren't messed up from the factory. Now keep in mind that while with some pushing in here and there that mine locks in perfectly in fighter mode and appears to have minimal, if any QC issues, I have not transformed mine. And the reason I haven't nor will I ever, is I want to keep this in mint condition because It came with everything mint in the box for $48.61 shipped in the U.S. and I am keeping it this way on display because I am treating this as a collector's item. The claw hands are MUCH nicer than the hands on my Lancer Alpha. Shoot Jasonc a PM and see if he has any more, but I think the Shadow fighter is the best of them. Here's some quick pics : -Kyp Edited January 16, 2008 by Kyp Durron
Black Valkyrie Posted January 16, 2008 Posted January 16, 2008 I think CM should take some pics too from the under the Legioss .
Kyp Durron Posted January 16, 2008 Posted January 16, 2008 I wish they would too....and transform it right so we would know once and for all if those knee caps really do stick that far out in fighter mode. -Kyp
do not disturb Posted January 16, 2008 Posted January 16, 2008 Well, it's a difficult design to make the head turn. In the anime, when the Legioss' head turns that little radar pod thing turns with it. If you watch episode 1 of Mospeada there is a shot where you clearly see Stick's Eta turn it's head about 45 degrees to the side and the radar pod moves with it. The problem with the toys are that the radar pod is a separate piece that is permanently moored to the shoulder and it obstructs the Legioss' long head from turning left or right to any decent degree. Past "workarounds" to this design flaw have been to shorten the head or only allow the head to turn in very minute amounts. Then there is the complex mechanism connecting the head that allows it's transformation. The big problem with these toys are that the design itself uses so much squash and stretch and pure anime magic that creating faithful toys is very, very difficult. The guys who designed the Mospeada stuff did not exactly have the same anal retentiveness and mechanical discipline that a Shoji Kawamori has... there is a big difference between designing something to "work" and designing something to "look good". To a good degree I think it's kind of great that modern mecha anime is going over to 3D, that alone allows the designers to think three dimensionally and better create their art in a form that can translate into toys easier. i think the main problem is that companies are influenced by old gakken design. why not try something different instead of more of the same? the simple solution for the radar pod would be how change how its mounted/designed. all the previous legioss toys have it so the RP is either fixed and part of the "flap" like the old gakkens, or involve parts swapping like the toynami's. but if they made it so there was no "flap"(or at least so it doesn't flip open to the left or right) and made it so it just mounts onto the shoulder itself, it would solve the head turning issue even if it isn't completely true to the anime. now i'm sure someone is thinking, "what about the peg hole for the RP, that would make fighter mode look ugly and i don't want some hole in my shoulder?" well they could make it so it magnetically attaches to the shoulder so no peg hole would be needed. and because the "flap" doesn't flip open to the left or right(the main reason why you can't rotate the torso), it would allow the torso to move more freely for better posability, thereby killing 2 birds with one stone. someone really needs to be cutting me checks for my ideas damn it!
jenius Posted January 16, 2008 Posted January 16, 2008 Even if you stuck with the Gakken trap-door mentality, you could always put the array on a swivel joint. It's not like these toy companies don't know how to make something spin around. I see no way the shoulder flap should ever be considered a hinderance in the head's ability to turn. CMs just got it all completely wrong with the head being below the shoulders. Look, if Toynami's MPC can do it, so can CMs. Yeah, Toynami made the piece removeable but have you ever looked at how close they are to not even needing to make it transformable? If that one back plate flipped out instead of only being able to push in it would nearly fit. And if CMs absolutely wanted huge arm fins why not add a slot in the shoulder where the fin could collapse into when the arms were collapsed? There are just a lot of really questionable engineering calls that went into this toy.
mechaninac Posted January 16, 2008 Posted January 16, 2008 (edited) i think the main problem is that companies are influenced by old gakken design... The best solution would be for these toy companies to quit trying to make these Mospeada Mecha in such dinky sizes. Making the Legioss in 1/35 scale would allow for a much greater freedom of design that should lead to a much more robust toy with superior proportions and articulation. Take Toynami's effort for instance: while the sculpt has it's flaws (I'm not going to list them here as I'm sure most of us know what they are) it is the most faithful to the line art, but the engineering/design was overly ambitious for the small size (1/55-1/50ish is just too small to represent such a small variable fighter), their choice of materials and their placement were retarded, and their complete lack of QC was near criminal. Now, if a company were to produce the Legiosses in 1/35, and properly proportioned Tleads (CM's Tlead should've been 10% bigger to be properly scaled to their Legioss), for no more than $350.00 for a set, I'd be the first to pre-order all of them. What I see of the CM's bundles, for their asking price, just leaves me with a "meh, I'll pass" feeling. Edited January 16, 2008 by mechaninac
do not disturb Posted January 16, 2008 Posted January 16, 2008 The best solution would be for these toy companies to quit trying to make these Mospeada Mecha in such dinky sizes. Making the Legioss in 1/35 scale would allow for a much greater freedom of design that should lead to a much more robust toy with superior proportions and articulation. Take Toynami's effort for instance: while the sculpt has it's flaws (I'm not going to list them here as I'm sure most of us know what they are) it is the most faithful to the line art, but the engineering/design was overly ambitious for the small size (1/55-1/50ish is just too small to represent such a small variable fighter), their choice of materials and their placement were retarded, and their complete lack of QC was near criminal. Now, if a company were to produce the Legiosses in 1/35, and properly proportioned Tleads (CM's Tlead should've been 10% bigger to be properly scaled to their Legioss), for no more than $350.00 for a set, I'd be the first to pre-order all of them. What I see of the CM's bundles, for their asking price, just leaves me with a "meh, I'll pass" feeling. fo-shizzle! i think everyone on here has stated that they'd prefer a bigger legioss toy but companies can't seem to grasp the concept of "bigger is better" when it comes to this particular toys design. i'm not sure what people are saying on the japanese fan sites but the english speaking ones have been saying the same thing for years.
Vermillion21 Posted January 16, 2008 Posted January 16, 2008 Despite its many flaws & high pricepoint, the more pics I see, the more I want ...
eriku Posted January 16, 2008 Posted January 16, 2008 Despite its many flaws & high pricepoint, the more pics I see, the more I want ... Ditto. Although if a different toy company announced plans to make a Legioss (beta or no Beta) in a larger scale I would probably lose interest in CMs offering pretty fast.
Fly4victory Posted January 16, 2008 Posted January 16, 2008 The Shadow was the best of the Toynami's. That CM has two different shades of green??? Look at the nosecone, arm/engines, and the fuselage. How many people are going to buy the Tread and then forget about the Legioss?
Kyp Durron Posted January 16, 2008 Posted January 16, 2008 (edited) CMs just got it all completely wrong with the head being below the shoulders. Look, if Toynami's MPC can do it, so can CMs. Yeah, Toynami made the piece removeable but have you ever looked at how close they are to not even needing to make it transformable? If that one back plate flipped out instead of only being able to push in it would nearly fit. And if CMs absolutely wanted huge arm fins why not add a slot in the shoulder where the fin could collapse into when the arms were collapsed? Quoted for 100% truth. I thought the exact same thing you said in regards to the shoulders needing a slot for the extra long tail fins to slide into when hooked up with the Tread. They could have easily done it, why didn't they? There are just a lot of really questionable engineering calls that went into this toy. 1. Intake vents too small. 2. Pinocchio nose...WTF's up with that? 3. Knee caps that stick out from underneath the wings in fighter mode....if it wasn't for this, I would almost consider buying a set...almost. 4. Questionable hook up to Tread...don't know if the feet of the Armo fighter are supposed to be that way when hooked up or not. But yet they did something not even Yamato has done....EVERY marking is printed on there...no need for ANY decals....They F' up so much and yet they did the one thing that Yamato has yet to do...it's frustrating as HELL, Goddamn it!!! -Kyp Edited January 16, 2008 by Kyp Durron
Hiriyu Posted January 17, 2008 Posted January 17, 2008 Quoted for 100% truth. I thought the exact same thing you said in regards to the shoulders needing a slot for the extra long tail fins to slide into when hooked up with the Tread. They could have easily done it, why didn't they? I think the main reason for that is that the tailfin would then bisect the hinge for the arm/hand covers. The underlying reason that the CMs tailfin won't fully fold is that the length of the forearm has been reproportioned to be much shorter than the equivalent on a Gakken 1/35 or Namitoy 1/55. CMs could have moved the tailfin pivot down and back a little to address the issue, at the expense of having the end of tailfin protrude slightly through the end of the arm (where the hand pulls out).
robodragon Posted January 17, 2008 Posted January 17, 2008 Just found this new update on CMS's site http://www.cmscorp.jp/news/08wonfes_win.html
CAIN MKII Posted January 17, 2008 Posted January 17, 2008 (edited) "Despite its many flaws & high pricepoint, the more pics I see, the more I want ..." I feel the same way. I already have toynami crappy blue Legios so I will take the red one from CM this time Edited January 17, 2008 by CAIN MKII
Mog Posted January 17, 2008 Posted January 17, 2008 I'm surprised no one has mentioned how the left arm is holding up in this pic. Hopefully, this is a good sign for all those folks praying that this is a solid and sturdy toy. (Would be nice though if they could show the arm holding that pose while holding up the gun. ) Of course, you all know my positions and opinions on this release. Despite the new pics, my opinions/positions still haven't changed. So, there's really no point in me rehashing them all again.
Mog Posted January 17, 2008 Posted January 17, 2008 ^^Nah, holding the gun while the whole arm (from the shoulder all the way to the hand) is straight and parallel to the ground. That pic just shows the arm bent like an "L" (upper arm down, lower forearm parallel to the ground). Close but no cigar.
hutch Posted January 17, 2008 Posted January 17, 2008 Kyp, thanks much for the info and pics. Still not seeing anything in this CM release that's convincing me. I agree, I'd love to see pics from below the linkup.
Lonely Soldier Boy Posted January 18, 2008 Posted January 18, 2008 Upon closer inspection on Kyp's green Legioss pic, it also seems like CM's cannot achieve a proper "A" stance, like most all previous Legioss toys.
Vermillion21 Posted January 18, 2008 Posted January 18, 2008 I agree, I'd love to see pics from below the linkup. Yeah, a bottom view would help clarify exact HOW the 2 fighters link-up ...
Alpha OTS Posted January 18, 2008 Posted January 18, 2008 ^^Nah, holding the gun while the whole arm (from the shoulder all the way to the hand) is straight and parallel to the ground. Madness! They're not meant to do such a thing. Alphas live and frolic on a high gravity alternate Earth. Toynami told me so, and if you watch the show......err.....oh......nevermind.....
eriku Posted January 19, 2008 Posted January 19, 2008 Upon closer inspection on Kyp's green Legioss pic, it also seems like CM's cannot achieve a proper "A" stance, like most all previous Legioss toys. Sure it can. More here:CMS 'Regios' page
hutch Posted January 19, 2008 Posted January 19, 2008 Horrible mistransformation on the legs or is this 'how it is'? If so, that's HORRIBLE.
Totoro242 Posted January 19, 2008 Posted January 19, 2008 Wow. The legs don't appear to telescope in. Thats really awful. All I want is just the Beta but there's probably zero chance you can buy that seperate Horrible mistransformation on the legs or is this 'how it is'? If so, that's HORRIBLE.
Kyp Durron Posted January 19, 2008 Posted January 19, 2008 (edited) Horrible mistransformation on the legs or is this 'how it is'? If so, that's HORRIBLE. I know...we now know that the arms space out properly in fighter mode, but if those knee caps stick out like that for real, then CM's designer needs to be beheaded and have his head on a pole in front of CM's headquarters as a warning to their other designers. -Kyp Edited January 19, 2008 by Kyp Durron
Alpha OTS Posted January 19, 2008 Posted January 19, 2008 I knew the colors were bugging me, but getting my Toynami out of storage and looking it over, ouch. Yeah, the QC's a problem, and I have to handle it gingerly, but for my needs it *looks* how I want. The CM looks too much like a toy. On purpose or not, that's not something I'm in the market for. Maybe if I see it in some dynamic poses my opinion will change, but right now, between the cost, the deco, and the design, reality's sort of hit me, and I'm not feeling the need for this or the Tread.
robodragon Posted January 19, 2008 Posted January 19, 2008 I still will get one, Just one. Aslong as I've been waiting to have a Legioss/Tread Toy I have to get one.
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