CM's Corporation Legioss/TREAD.

[Black Valkyrie]

True the price is scary for most of us because of that I might get just the model kit.

[GobotFool]

Alot of the problems with this tread linkup, minus some strange design choices, seems caused by the fact that the scale between the two seems off. IMHO I think if they downsize the alpha a little and scaled up the tread a little, the close together arms in link up mode might have been resolved. I can forgive a lot. I don't mind how it looks linked up, but sticking out arm fins are just flat out ugly. I don't know who thought no one would care about that, but unless these go on clearance I don't think I'll be picking any of them up myself.

Edited January 8, 2008 by GobotFool

[NeoverseOmega]

I'm sorry, the "toy" excuse just doesn't make sense to me.

The target audience is older fans, it HAS to be because Mospeada is an older anime. Older fans are going to want "replicas" of the mecha they love, not just kiddie-toy approximations (theres a ton of those out there already for a lot less than 300 dollars). In that respect TOYNAMI got the gist of it better than CM's (which is absolutely terrifying). This design makes absolutely no sense with both the price point and the audience. For three hundred dollars, I'd want something that looks like a toynami with a CAD designed plastic exterior and a diecast ratcheting skeleton holding it together - scratch that, I'd want that for a 150-200 dollar toy. For three hundred it better be a titanium 1/35 scale, or it better friggin actually be able to fly . . . .

I have to go with the groundswell of dissappointment on this one. Part of what's so maddening is that the most annoying problems are EASY FIXES! Shorter tailfins in exchange for not sticking out of the forearms? Making the intakes bigger? While I'm not a big fan of the backwards horseshoe knees, all they needed was an extra sliding piece to cover them up (going into the upper leg so as not to impinge on the hinge) and they could have still gotten away with that transformation (which is probably a lot more solid than the slider approach for the whole leg, which I'm guessing thats why they did it). Heck, just making the chest piece that holds the cyclone fold OUT in battroid mode so that it doesn't have quite so awful a necktie thing going would help a lot. None of these things effect the durability, construction, or expense of the toy, nor should any of them have been difficult to implement at the design stage. I think the fact that the arms CAN be spaced more than they are in most fighter mode pics means that if they simply raised the alpha a bit, the linkup would be good enough.

Almost all the problems are on the Alpha, which actually has a long history of designs to learn from and requires nowhere near the level of anime magic as the Tread. It should have been by far the easier of the two. Heck, a scaled down gakken with an improved sculpt and paint job would have probably done it, or even a direct copy of the toynami design with different materials choices (I still think if it had been made entirely out of GOOD plastic and given a ratcheting metal joint structure it would have been been nearly perfect for its scale - with all that I would have probably even forgiven the atrocious forearm missles and the feet that need to be positioned just right to allow the legs to slide into place - though I'd still reserve the right to roll my eyes!). I'll forgive paint smudges, slight factory defects, minor joint looseness in a part - somewhat awkward transforming joints, even the occassional part that doesn't quite work the way it was originally intended. I'm hardly super critical because I recognize that these are mass produced and not lovingly assembled by Geppetto in his workshop - but the original matrix has to at least be, well, on par with what you'd expect given both the audience and the price tag you hope to charge.

Geez, I'm not an engineer, but its pretty certain with a little trial and error little old me (or any one else on this site)could have touched up CM's product to an acceptable point before release - is their design department on crack? When amateurs (and even TOYNAMI, Toynami for crissakes, which should be a step below amateur) can out-design something there's a serious problem . . . .

I'm sorry, the only way I'd even consider picking this up is if it were priced the way it looks - in short, like a pair of transformer knock offs, not a high end collectible. Charge me sixty bucks and I might take it.

[izzyfcuk]

Wet yourselves and ponder.........

Green - CMS Website exclusive

Red - TRU exclusive

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Looks good. So are these ride armors the best out there?

[isamu_dyson]

these are the same pictures given in page 39 of this thread ..

[JsARCLIGHT]

What is starting to scare me is that while the $300 Legioss Tread is a complete no go for me the Ride Armors look very, very tempting... my fear is that if this lump of ass Legioss Tread set is $300, how much are the Ride Armors? $100 each? When I look at the pictures of all the toys sitting on that table the first thing I think is "Fighter sets should be $100, Ride armors should be $30"... and then we find out the fighter sets are triple that which makes me afraid the ride armor sets are also triple my guess.

[GobotFool]

What is starting to scare me is that while the $300 Legioss Tread is a complete no go for me the Ride Armors look very, very tempting... my fear is that if this lump of ass Legioss Tread set is $300, how much are the Ride Armors? $100 each? When I look at the pictures of all the toys sitting on that table the first thing I think is "Fighter sets should be $100, Ride armors should be $30"... and then we find out the fighter sets are triple that which makes me afraid the ride armor sets are also triple my guess.

The ride armor are around 60, 55 from a few places.

[JsARCLIGHT]

$60 is still quite high for what you'd be getting with those toys. I must be too far removed from the whole Japanese import toy market because these prices seem nuts to me.

[eyesonme78]

$60 is still quite high for what you'd be getting with those toys. I must be too far removed from the whole Japanese import toy market because these prices seem nuts to me.

Well blame it on taxes.. i think that adds quite a part in it, but even that ios the case the main cost is still ex, even in asia, the item costs USD$52

[GobotFool]

$60 is still quite high for what you'd be getting with those toys. I must be too far removed from the whole Japanese import toy market because these prices seem nuts to me.

As a person who imports the ocassional Japanese transformer, I've notice that the mark up is on average 2x. I don't do it often as the difference in quality between the US releases and Japanese releases is usually very small. But if you want say, a gun version of megatron in non-nerf gun colors, you have to pay 41 dollars for a toy that sold for 20 dollars in the US. Compared to some SOC's I've owned, though I don't own that many, the 60 doesn't seem that insane for this ride armor. I think I payed about 60 for my xambungle and he is a teeny guy, probably not much larger than CMS's ride armor. I'm not trying to defend the high prices, I just don't find them that unusual for a imported Japanese robot toy. Isn't the Legioss supposed to be the same size as the Toynami alpha? If this toy actually looked good, 80 for the alpha and 120 for the tread would not strike me as odd. Of course as things stand its more like 120 for the alpha and 180 for the tread. If the set was 200 and it didn't have any of the major flaws that everyone has discussed to death, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

[JsARCLIGHT]

I should probably rephrase that the price seems high for what you are getting. Much like my complaint about the Legioss / Tread set, if these things were of a larger scale the price would not bother me at all. It just seems like CM's wants to sell "small" for the price of "big". I myself would much rather have a big plastic toy than a small metal if the price was the same.

[eriku]

[dream sequence]

I want a company to make a 1/18 scale Legioss, fully transformable, built for play and no more than $150. Impossible? I don't think so. The Legioss is a relatively small aircraft, so the bulk of one in GI Joe scale (Like CMS Ride Armors) shouldn't be much bigger than the Yamato Scopedog (not counting the wings of course). Keep the details simple, don't load it full of opening missile hatches (unless they can afford to), and pack it with a pilot that is also compatible with a 1/18 Ride Armor toy. A Legioss this size should have very sturdy construction, the parts would be able to lock together tightly and the joints would be big enough to not snap or break during transformation. I'm thinking like the old Gakken, only larger and with a few more articulation points. I think Yamato could pull this off if they went the same route as their 1/12 Scopedog toys, which are between $100 and $150. They probably wouldn't want to make one that size, but they should, dammit.

[/dream sequence]

[Vermillion21]

I would love to see one of those CMS Ride Armours in a scale pic with something else ... like maybe a Deluxe TF or something. So I can get a better idea of how they really are.

[jenius]

Whoa Eriku, a 1/18 Legioss would be nearly twice as big as the old 1/32 toy making it pretty huge! That's like what, 20" tall in Armo-Soldier?

[eriku]

Whoa Eriku, a 1/18 Legioss would be nearly twice as big as the old 1/32 toy making it pretty huge! That's like what, 20" tall in Armo-Soldier?

Heheh, yeah, maybe $150 wouldn't cover that. I still want one though.

[do not disturb]

those ride armors look to be about 6" tall if even that. perhaps if the quality is there, $60 wouldn't be so bad, but IMO it looks rather cheap in just about every way, theres something very banpresto-ish about them.

[EXO]

those ride armors are 3.5 to 4 inches tall... it's 1/18 scale... just like GI Joes. $60 is way too much.

there's a lot of reasons why import toys are so much right now. Petroleum prices, weak dollar (I can't believe how bad it is), then you add in CM's low run and exclusive deals. But even with those reasons I can't justify a $60 G.I. Joe sized toy. Too bad, I really want those.

[do not disturb]

i really wanted one too but GI joe sized just seems way too small.

i'll wait until i find them on super clearance cause even for $20, its a stretch.

[eriku]

Most Joes are plain human figures, so the full height of Rei and Stig combined with their Mospeadas should be taller than 3 3/4 or 4". I'd guess 5" at the least. I don't think the price is that unreasonable. Compared to similarly sized US toys, sure, but until Hasbro starts filling Target shelves with Mospeada and Macross toys I'm kind of obliged to pay higher prices for stuff I want from Japan.

For a little perspective, the Votoms Mellowlink set was between $40 and $50 for a 1/18 scale figure with motorcycle. And that didn't even transform.

[izzyfcuk]

Well blame it on taxes.. i think that adds quite a part in it, but even that ios the case the main cost is still ex, even in asia, the item costs USD$52

funny, my pre-order was only $40 approx

[Vermillion21]

funny, my pre-order was only $40 approx

From where may I ask?

[eyesonme78]

From where may I ask?

i think we have different sellers, but based on what i have, USD$1.00= SGD$1.44

thus i came out with my USD$52 amount. maybe izzyfcuk if u have better prices could u let me know who to get from?

If you don't intend to share then it's okie.

[Shun]

the chest intakes are really an eyesore for me. >_<

btw, was there a red Tlead (beta) in the show?

ps> i think izzyfcuk is talking about pre-order prices from toyntoys?

Edited January 10, 2008 by Shun

[JsARCLIGHT]

Nope.

That is a point I point out every time. The only Treads shown in the show were Mars Base units of the Eta, Iota and Dark variety. The Jupiter Base Zeta Legioss has never been seen with a Tread... and seeing how the Zeta has such a different paint job than the two Mars Base Eta and Iota units it only goes to assume if the Zeta did have a Tread it's paint job would be different as well.

Edit: and from what I recall a lot of Mospeada text refers to the Zeta as a special "Atmosphere Fighter". If that is the case why would a terrestrial fighter designed to fight inside earth's atmosphere need a trans-atmospheric booster?

[Lynx7725]

Edit: and from what I recall a lot of Mospeada text refers to the Zeta as a special "Atmosphere Fighter". If that is the case why would a terrestrial fighter designed to fight inside earth's atmosphere need a trans-atmospheric booster?

Bureaucratic inertia? I mean, every other variant has a Tlead, so let's have one for the Zeta too!

[Shun]

ah, so i didn't remember wrongly. there's no red beta in the show... thanks JsARCLIGHT.

If zeta is used around Jupiter, it'd need a much more stronger booster to counter jupiter's strong gravity.

"Atmosphere Fighter" - well, maybe coz jupiter's a gas giant? =X

wild guesses, don't mind me

[JsARCLIGHT]

The whole "Jupiter Base" markings scheme on the Zeta made absolutely no sense in the show. It was Mars Base that mounted the second "Earth Recapture Mission" and it was a detachment of Mars Base at Fallback Point K (where the freedom fighters find the Zeta)... where did a "custom" Jupiter Base atmosphere fighter come from?

[Totoro242]

The whole "Jupiter Base" markings scheme on the Zeta made absolutely no sense in the show. It was Mars Base that mounted the second "Earth Recapture Mission" and it was a detachment of Mars Base at Fallback Point K (where the freedom fighters find the Zeta)... where did a "custom" Jupiter Base atmosphere fighter come from?

This is a visualization map of the second mission and per Roger's translation, "the green ball is Earth, the red one is Mars, and the large arrows show how the three fleets jointed up - the Jupiter one (lower left) and the one from the other colonies (upper left) join up with the Mars fleet, and they're also joined by more ships from other colonies in earth orbit (upper right). They attack Earth, and then the surviving flagships (giggle) head back to Mars."

So, Jupiter Base was part of the second attack wave and the red Zeta is not a custom. There is also the Second Mission Jupiter patch(also below) which would also indicate such and the fact that there are two "D-Day" invasion stripes on the wings of the Zeta. They just didnt show the Jupiter Base forces during the first episode for whatever reason

In the end, its just a plot element to give Fuke her own colored Legioss

[jenius]

Even if the Zeta is a somewhat specialized Legioss for atmospheric combat you could still think of plenty of reasons to give it a Tread. The Zeta still has to get down to Earth so fighting with a Tread on its way down like Stig did would probably be the option that makes the red Legioss just as deadly as a blue one in space and then ditches the Tread (assuming its bomber role) once entering the atmosphere.

[JsARCLIGHT]

Everything I've seen has called the Zeta a "special atmosphere fighter" which implied to me it was a custom fighter specially designed for atmospheric fighting. It did not need a Tread because it was most likely stored in a giant storage bay like the other fighters in the fleet. Remember that only the orbital escort fighters had Treads, every other fighting unit in the fleet was stationed aboard a larger ship as just a Legioss. You can see in the first episode that only one division of fighters had Treads, the ones making the trans-atmospheric assault. All the others were kept in reserve on board the larger carriers until needed, and they didn't have Treads.

[jenius]

Even so, for pure means of flexibility it would make sense to have a couple. The Tread is what gets the Alpha to space, it's the bomber component, it serves some functions. What if the intent were to drop it off in orbit but the attack was so fierce you had to scramble beforehand? Wouldn't hurt to have a tread handy.

[JsARCLIGHT]

But they didn't... and that was the whole mess. The human "war plan" for the second recapture mission was horribly managed and executed. They thought they were just going to punch right in but they were bogged down fighting in orbit, their Tread equipped trans-atmospheric escort units were wiped out and they had to scramble their non-Tread equipped main force units.

I'm sure the Zeta can accept a Tread, what I am saying is there where no red painted Treads. They never showed them and from what I understand of the tactics and the "battle plan" of the recapture mission the Treads were not intended to be widely used otherwise they would have brought more with them. If you look at the assault composition only like 10% of their assault Legioss units had Treads.

[Roger]

I don't get it, are you complaining that they're making three color variations of a toy instead of two? Usually it's the other way around.

[JsARCLIGHT]

I'm not complaining about anything, I'm just pointing out that there is no red Tread. It doesn't exist. And as such there is no "real" color scheme for it. The red Zeta Legioss has a unique color scheme different from the other two standard fighters which goes to reason that if it did indeed have a Tread, that Tread would also have a similar unique color scheme. No official color scheme for a red Tread has been seen ergo my "complaint" if you can even call it one is how is the toy company to know what color pattern to paint a red Tread?