Macross TV or DYRL?

[GU-11]

Um, can I split my vote?

I watched the TV series as a kid (does Robotech count?), and only recently got to watch DYRL on Youtube.

For nostalgic reasons and the fact that I liked the color schemes of the TV version VF-1's more, I would have voted for the TV series. And strange though it seems, I actually prefer the more drawn out story-telling of the TV series, with the exception of Max's rather rushed and disjointed courtship with Milia.

As for DYRL, it's technically superior to the TV series in all aspects, including animation quality, mecha designs (not crazy about the minimalistic color schemes, though), and more focused story-telling. Also, I like the fact that Minmei is far less ditzy and more assured of herself here than in the TV series.

But since DYRL is a lot fresher in my memory, I'll vote for the movie.

[Macross007]

Um, can I split my vote?

I watched the TV series as a kid (does Robotech count?)

Not really. Sorry.

[Einherjar]

Macross TV for me, it's closer to the truth about the storyline than DYRL, though the designs from the movie were better. I think what really happened and how things were supposed to look like is somewhere in the middle combining the two.

[nexxstrait]

I watched the TV series as a kid (does Robotech count?), and only recently got to watch DYRL on Youtube.

No it doesn't. Macross is a different beast. Robotech did not only butcher an awful lot of sequences (worth two whole episodes of screentime), but completely changed the way many characters are portrayed. There is certainly no shame in liking Robotech as a "first love" thing, but you should really watch the real Macross. There's no turning back after that.

Edited March 12, 2010 by nexxstrait

[Brand]

Yet another split vote here. SDFM TV is the definitive story, of course, with plenty of time to develop the characters and plot to the proper magnificent depth, but I have a soft spot for DYRL not only because of how much better it is in technical issues such as animation and the like, but because it was my first exposure to the true Macross after having watched Robotech as a kid. I was lucky/agreeably destined enough to have found a copy of the international English-language release, featuring a different voice acting cast, a generally faithful translation, even the Japanese character names and each and every one of Minmay's songs left gloriously intact. I'd imagine it makes "Clash of the Bionoids" cry itself to sleep every night by comparison. Needless to say, having gone from a childhood of Robotech to discovering DYRL in high school was like seeing the universe in a whole new way, and I've never looked back.

[Uxi]

TV. I've never actually been super fond of DYRL's story deviation... I prefer the TV design and colors for the SDF-1, as well, though like the additional detail from DYRL.

I always found it kinda pointless to do like that. Why couldn't they have just done a feature length 2012 type story with the launch of Megaroad 1 and encountering another Zentran and/or Meltran fleet and maybe given us more than a hint of the VF-4? The upgrades to the VF-1, introduction of the Strike packs, etc would have all made complete sense.

I do prefer the voice actor Robotech used for Roy, though that might be my childhood nostalgia calling. I do think it's more appropriate to a tall blonde guy, but obviously prefer seeing the naked chics he decorated his walls with rather than taking that out.

Edited March 12, 2010 by Uxi

[Einherjar]

It makes me want to get a copy of Macross the First. You get the best of both worlds. Maybe when it becomes more available it could become a third option.

[Gubaba]

It makes me want to get a copy of Macross the First. You get the best of both worlds. Maybe when it becomes more available it could become a third option.

But even that is turning out not to be the "TV story with movie designs" retelling that it originally appeared to be. The story hews closer to the TV story than anything else, and the designs are similar to the DYRL designs...but it's definitely its own thing at this point.

[DrStrangelove]

I prefer the series in most areas

[SIGHUP]

As I just voted in the poll for DYRL the count is TV Series: 107 vs. DYRL: 75

Not sure if its fair to compare both since they're sort of a different animal. One is a long tv series and the other a an hour plus flick. Its like comparing the same marathon runner that does a sprint.

Then again. . .

I prefer DYRL. I think its the best space anime movie hands down! It has everything. The city definitely seems more realistic than the TV series. Just thinking about it makes me giggle like a school girl. Take the opening sequence, when the SDF-1 is slowly appearing and the huge DYRL sign pops up with the soundtrack. Oh my god just gives me stiffy.

Then as Hikaru's VF is being released, more good stuff. It just flows better and of course it should because the story is compacted. There is nothing I dislike.

Even though I prefer DYRL, I consider it a "grown up" version of Macross TV series. Hech when I purchased my first 55" flat screen it was the first thing I played on it.

[Jasonc]

That's true, it's kinda hard to pick one over the other. 2 hour movie vs. a tv show. Love DYRL, but the depth of the story for SDF:Macross takes the cake. Gotta go w/ tv series.

[nightmareB4macross]

That's true, it's kinda hard to pick one over the other. 2 hour movie vs. a tv show. Love DYRL, but the depth of the story for SDF:Macross takes the cake. Gotta go w/ tv series.

Did someone say cake?

I always loved both.

[pondo]

personally, I see SDFM to be the real story. I'm not really a fan of the way DYRL explained everything. The whole sunken city thing didn't quite work for me.

[Vepariga]

love DYRL but seriously it cant stand up to the Series,it just has the in depth character driven yarn that only a series can do. and thats were the magic came from.

[DrunkenPilot72]

Wow lots of great posts here. While DYRL was an amazing film, I still have to go with the original series solely because of the story. To me, the movie is only memorable because of the story provided by the series. I wouldn't care about any of the characters in Macross if the only piece of media I had to go off of was the movie. The movie does have far superior animation but it takes more than eye candy for something to follow you from childhood all the way into your 20s and 30s. For me what made Macross memorable was Roy Fokker, how someone so seemingly untouchable could be killed off so suddenly (yeah the original Transformers movie had the same effect on me). Roy didn't make a very good transition into DYRL so naturally I'm going to favor the original series more.

One thing I am surprised at though is how nobody so far has mentioned the changes for the Valkyries between the two. For me the original series set the iconic standard for each character. Each character was normally associated with a specific model whether it was Rick's white VF-1J or Roy's iconic Skull Leader VF-1S. In DYRL, it seems like just about everyone gets a VF-1S and to makes things worse, the original VF-1S gets smashed to bits.

Oh and regarding the fragmented story in DYRL, I think this transition from the Saturn game would have helped a lot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5pEPj-Mb1M...=video_response

[Gubaba]

One thing I am surprised at though is how nobody so far has mentioned the changes for the Valkyries between the two. For me the original series set the iconic standard for each character. Each character was normally associated with a specific model whether it was Rick's white VF-1J or Roy's iconic Skull Leader VF-1S. In DYRL, it seems like just about everyone gets a VF-1S and to makes things worse, the original VF-1S gets smashed to bits.

So what? They've supposedly got 30 VF-1S models aboard the Macross...and shouldn't Skull Leader (whoever Skull Leader may be at the time) have one?

[DrunkenPilot72]

So what? They've supposedly got 30 VF-1S models aboard the Macross...and shouldn't Skull Leader (whoever Skull Leader may be at the time) have one?

Well obviously Roy never had the 1 and only VF-1S in existence but to see what is arguable the most iconic mecha in the entire franchise thrown aside so casually was really off putting for me. The original VF-1S perhaps the only mecha to make it through the original series intact yet it was among the first to go in DYRL. Again, this is more a personal gripe for me since what made Macross memorable for me wasn't handled very well in DYRL. It doesn't help that the original color designations for pilots has been a recurring theme for every series in the franchise except for Macross Plus (which is ironically my favorite part of the franchise despite the fact that it has neither my favorite pilot nor my favorite valk).

[Gubaba]

Well obviously Roy never had the 1 and only VF-1S in existence but to see what is arguable the most iconic mecha in the entire franchise thrown aside so casually was really off putting for me. The original VF-1S perhaps the only mecha to make it through the original series intact yet it was among the first to go in DYRL. Again, this is more a personal gripe for me since what made Macross memorable for me wasn't handled very well in DYRL. It doesn't help that the original color designations for pilots has been a recurring theme for every series in the franchise except for Macross Plus (which is ironically my favorite part of the franchise despite the fact that it has neither my favorite pilot nor my favorite valk).

Huh. I see your point, but I dunno...speaking personally, blowing up mecha (even REALLY, REALLY iconic mecha) never bugs me. However, I do remember Spring 1985, when I walked into my local hobby shop and saw a 1/100 model kit of Hikaru's VF-1S (which was the first inkling of DYRL's existence that I ever encountered) and saying the '80s equivalent of "ZOMG!! WTF is this!! DO WANT!! DO WANT!!!1!"

So yeah...for me, I think the torch passed from the Focker Special to the Ichijo Special before I ever even saw the movie. So getting upset over Focker's Valk never occurred to me.

[Seto Kaiba]

So what? They've supposedly got 30 VF-1S models aboard the Macross...and shouldn't Skull Leader (whoever Skull Leader may be at the time) have one?

Probably more than just 30 once you account for the additional 534 VF-1s stored aboard ARMD-01 and ARMD-02... but the point stands that Roy's VF-1S was far from unique even aboard the Macross in the TV series.

Well obviously Roy never had the 1 and only VF-1S in existence but to see what is arguable the most iconic mecha in the entire franchise thrown aside so casually was really off putting for me. The original VF-1S perhaps the only mecha to make it through the original series intact yet it was among the first to go in DYRL.

Personally, I never found the destruction of Roy's VF-1S in DYRL objectionable. I've always felt that DYRL allowed Roy to die with much more dignity than the TV series did by letting him go out in battle instead of the eminently nonsensical "Hey, I have no more will to live... let's go have pineapple salad" end.

[DrunkenPilot72]

Probably more than just 30 once you account for the additional 534 VF-1s stored aboard ARMD-01 and ARMD-02... but the point stands that Roy's VF-1S was far from unique even aboard the Macross in the TV series.

It didn't have to be unique, it is still an iconic mecha in the franchise. The only other comparable mecha are Hikaru's VF-1J and the Macross itself.

Personally, I never found the destruction of Roy's VF-1S in DYRL objectionable. I've always felt that DYRL allowed Roy to die with much more dignity than the TV series did by letting him go out in battle instead of the eminently nonsensical "Hey, I have no more will to live... let's go have pineapple salad" end.

It all comes down to a matter of taste. I thought the TV series was a much more fitting death since Roy was allowed to die close to his lover as oppose to the battlefield where, while he was an accomplished ace, he was still afraid to die. And besides, walking off shrapnel wounds long enough to make it to your girlfriend's house is hardly nonsensical. If anything it is probably the manliest thing anyone has ever done in the franchise.

[Gubaba]

It didn't have to be unique, it is still an iconic mecha in the franchise. The only other comparable mecha are Hikaru's VF-1J and the Macross itself.

Both of which got destroyed in various productions, no?

[DrunkenPilot72]

Both of which got destroyed in various productions, no?

True but Roy's VF-1S was the only one that survived the original series and has much closer homages in the VF-0S and Ozma's VF-25S than any other valk since. Just look at all of the other pilots who have had multiple valks and valks that had had multiple iterations and you'll still see some distinction among them while Skull Leader has always been distinctly Skull Leader.

[Seto Kaiba]

It didn't have to be unique, it is still an iconic mecha in the franchise. The only other comparable mecha are Hikaru's VF-1J and the Macross itself.

Uh-huh... you mean the iconic VF-1J that Hikaru goes through about three of in the course of the original Macross series? For that matter, there's also the Macross fortress getting severely damaged at the end of the original series and outright destroyed at the end of Macross II...

It all comes down to a matter of taste. I thought the TV series was a much more fitting death since Roy was allowed to die close to his lover as oppose to the battlefield where, while he was an accomplished ace, he was still afraid to die. And besides, walking off shrapnel wounds long enough to make it to your girlfriend's house is hardly nonsensical. If anything it is probably the manliest thing anyone has ever done in the franchise.

Ooookay... I'm not seeing how ignoring severe torso wounds so you can traumatize your girlfriend by dying in her kitchen while she's making dinner is manly or sensible. Anyone with their head screwed on straight would've gone straight to the medic after being wounded like that. Letting Roy go out with some dignity, sacrificing himself to take down Quamzin and give Hikaru and Misa a chance to escape, makes a lot more sense.

True but Roy's VF-1S was the only one that survived the original series and has much closer homages in the VF-0S and Ozma's VF-25S than any other valk since.

Since it's piloted by the same guy as the iconic VF-1S you're so hung up on, I don't think the VF-0S really counts as a homage...

Just look at all of the other pilots who have had multiple valks and valks that had had multiple iterations and you'll still see some distinction among them while Skull Leader has always been distinctly Skull Leader.

Okay, this is kind of a fractured sentence... not sure quite what you're getting at here. Fact of the matter is that there was nothing distinctive about Roy's VF-1S apart from the role of its pilot in the story. In practical terms it was completely and utterly interchangeable with every other VF-1S produced. Making it into some super-important icon of the story is more a Robotech-ism than anything else, since it was a special unit in that context. Also, not all VF-1S lifts/homages have been Skull Leader homages... like the VF-2SS, VF-19S, etc. (If anything, the former was a Max/Hikaru VF-1S homage).

Edited March 17, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[dreamweaver13]

Personally, I never found the destruction of Roy's VF-1S in DYRL objectionable. I've always felt that DYRL allowed Roy to die with much more dignity than the TV series did by letting him go out in battle instead of the eminently nonsensical "Hey, I have no more will to live... let's go have pineapple salad" end.

I never saw it that way. Actually, i felt that the series death was more bad-ass. Either he knew he was going to die already, so he'd rather spend that time keeping his promise to claudia (as any man should), OR he was sure that he could handle that "flesh wound" like the tough guy he is and eat pineapple salad with his lady. Either way, I never got the impression that he had no more will to live.

[Einherjar]

On one hand, the VF-1S was just a machine that could be replaced, regardless of the good guy's capacity to build new stuff. On the other, while it wasn't super important like a Gundam, it was Roy's and had sentimental value to people. I don't know, both versions of his death had dignity in their own way. But why are people concerned about his ship? Someone important died.

[DrunkenPilot72]

Uh-huh... you mean the iconic VF-1J that Hikaru goes through about three of in the course of the original Macross series? For that matter, there's also the Macross fortress getting severely damaged at the end of the original series and outright destroyed at the end of Macross II...

The fact that they were destroyed is not the point. Those are the mecha that are typically used to represent the franchise as a whole.

Fact of the matter is that there was nothing distinctive about Roy's VF-1S apart from the role of its pilot in the story. In practical terms it was completely and utterly interchangeable with every other VF-1S produced. Making it into some super-important icon of the story is more a Robotech-ism than anything else, since it was a special unit in that context. Also, not all VF-1S lifts/homages have been Skull Leader homages... like the VF-2SS, VF-19S, etc. (If anything, the former was a Max/Hikaru VF-1S homage).

I mean iconic as in for the franchise in its entirety, when people think "Macross" the first mechs they see are typically either the Macross itself or Roy's VF-1S. Just like how the RX-78 is the most iconic mecha for the Gundam franchise or how G1 Optimus Prime is the most iconic character for Transformers, Roy's VF-1S is iconic for Macross. I never meant to imply that Roy's VF-1S was critical to the original story.

Also regarding Frontier, that entire unit was constructed as a homage to the original Skull Squadron down to the pilots for each respective valk. While Alto and Michael have enough differences from Hikaru and Max to set them apart as different characters, Ozma hardly deviates from Roy at all.

Ooookay... I'm not seeing how ignoring severe torso wounds so you can traumatize your girlfriend by dying in her kitchen while she's making dinner is manly or sensible. Anyone with their head screwed on straight would've gone straight to the medic after being wounded like that. Letting Roy go out with some dignity, sacrificing himself to take down Quamzin and give Hikaru and Misa a chance to escape, makes a lot more sense.

Well of course it doesn't make sense when you look at it that way. Rather than have Roy go out like another cliche ace pilot, I appreciate the fact that they gave him the luxury of dying around a loved one. Think about it, if you ask a dying soldier where he would want to be what do you think his response would be? Do you think he would want to go out with a big bang or see a loved one first?

Since it's piloted by the same guy as the iconic VF-1S you're so hung up on, I don't think the VF-0S really counts as a homage...

Considering that there was no reason for the VF-0S to resemble the VF-1S as closely as it did, I'd count it as a homage.

I never saw it that way. Actually, i felt that the series death was more bad-ass. Either he knew he was going to die already, so he'd rather spend that time keeping his promise to claudia (as any man should), OR he was sure that he could handle that "flesh wound" like the tough guy he is and eat pineapple salad with his lady. Either way, I never got the impression that he had no more will to live.

Thank you, finally someone else sees it.

[Seto Kaiba]

The fact that they were destroyed is not the point. Those are the mecha that are typically used to represent the franchise as a whole.

Then, by the same token, we can handwave aside your entire series of complaints about the treatment of Roy's VF-1S since that it was destroyed isn't relevant. Insofar as what's iconic of the original series, you should take a look over at the Japanese Macross websites. What's used to represent the franchise these days is predominantly Hikaru's old VF-1J and the Macross, not Roy's VF-1S.

Usually, in my experience, the "Roy's VF-1S is special/iconic" assertion tends to most frequently be made by fans who were introduced to Macross via Robotech, wherein Roy's VF-1S was a super-special, elite, fairy-dust farting one-of-a-kind mechanical wonder. In Macross, it simply isn't that allfired special, nor was the mook flying it. DYRL showed it for what it was... utterly interchangeable with any of the other VF-1S out there, and what mattered was the pilot. In that case, as in the TV series, the story wasn't about Roy, it was about Hikaru. Roy's role was as a big brother figure to facilitate Hikaru's development as a character, who then exited stage left so Hikaru could grow on his own. So it's unsurprising that, at least among fans of the original, the truly "iconic" mecha are the ones most associated with the main character and the one that served as the focus of the original story... Hikaru's VF-1J and the Macross.

(In much the same way, when people consider iconic mobile suits and their pilots, they immediately leap to associate Amuro Ray with the RX-78-2 rather than any of the dozen mobile suits he piloted later. That particular combination will always stand out because that's the mecha he was piloting as the audience got to know him for the first time. Very few people hear Amuro Ray and go "Oh yeah, didn't he pilot a RMS-099 Rick Dias" or "Hey, isn't that the guy who used the Re-GZ"?)

Also regarding Frontier, that entire unit was constructed as a homage to the original Skull Squadron down to the pilots for each respective valk. While Alto and Michael have enough differences from Hikaru and Max to set them apart as different characters, Ozma hardly deviates from Roy at all.

Ozma Lee is probably the most superficial character homage in Macross Frontier... the resemblance to Roy is truly only skin deep. He never really becomes a mentor figure to Alto in the way that Roy was to Hikaru, and he was rather a lot less boisterous than Roy was on account of the arbitrary tragedy tacked onto his backstory in an effort to make him more interesting. Yes, he wears black and yellow, yes he's "Skull Leader", and yes he has an near-death incident with pineapple at its center, but he's no lift of Roy Focker.

[DrunkenPilot72]

Then, by the same token, we can handwave aside your entire series of complaints about the treatment of Roy's VF-1S since that it was destroyed isn't relevant

I would agree if Roy's death and the destruction of the VF-1S was a more memorable scene in DYRL. Roy's death in the TV series really stood out to me, in DYRL his death seemed rather bland compared to how good the rest of the action scenes were.

Insofar as what's iconic of the original series, you should take a look over at the Japanese Macross websites. What's used to represent the franchise these days is predominantly Hikaru's old VF-1J and the Macross, not Roy's VF-1S.

I'm aware of this yet I always wondered why he skips over it in DYRL. We see VF-1Js in DYRL but I don't think he ever pilots one.

Usually, in my experience, the "Roy's VF-1S is special/iconic" assertion tends to most frequently be made by fans who were introduced to Macross via Robotech, wherein Roy's VF-1S was a super-special, elite, fairy-dust farting one-of-a-kind mechanical wonder. In Macross, it simply isn't that allfired special, nor was the mook flying it.

I'd be lying if I said I didn't start with Robotech but I also saw Zero before DYRL so that probably has a lot to do with it.

Ozma Lee is probably the most superficial character homage in Macross Frontier... the resemblance to Roy is truly only skin deep. He never really becomes a mentor figure to Alto in the way that Roy was to Hikaru, and he was rather a lot less boisterous than Roy was on account of the arbitrary tragedy tacked onto his backstory in an effort to make him more interesting. Yes, he wears black and yellow, yes he's "Skull Leader", and yes he has an near-death incident with pineapple at its center, but he's no lift of Roy Focker.

Fair enough, I can't argue with that.

[Seto Kaiba]

I would agree if Roy's death and the destruction of the VF-1S was a more memorable scene in DYRL. Roy's death in the TV series really stood out to me, in DYRL his death seemed rather bland compared to how good the rest of the action scenes were.

Exactly which version of Roy's death is better is always going to be a matter of personal opinion, though it probably is worth noting that in DYRL it wasn't nearly as traumatic for Claudia, who seemed to think that was probably the way he would've wanted to go.

I'm aware of this yet I always wondered why he skips over it in DYRL. We see VF-1Js in DYRL but I don't think he ever pilots one.

Y'know, I don't think we've ever gotten an explanation for that directly from Kawamori. It's probably a function of DYRL Hikaru's somewhat different U.N. Spacy career, where he's introduced as an officer (and in the game adaptation of the movie, was a member of Skull squadron on the Prometheus before the war even started) and skipped that intermediate phase where he was just a team leader.

On the other hand, the creators of the Macross II: Lovers Again OVA did come up with a post-facto explanation for Hikaru bypassing the VF-1J altogether while they were fleshing out the backstory of both their new OVA and DYRL, which it treats as the canon version of Space War 1. Initially, only the VF-1J was compatible with the GBP-1S Protect Armor, so the existing VF-1Js were pressed into service as Armored Valkyries rather than being equipped with SP-1 series Super Parts and remaining in general service like the VF-1A and VF-1S.

(As a matter of interest, Macross II's creators also do mention that the GBP-1S was later adapted to work with all existing VF-1 variants including the VF-1A, VF-1S, and VF-1D. The latter came as something of a surprise, since the D model was generally believed not to exist in the DYRL continuity... a rationale for it not appearing was also provided)

[Vifam7]

Exactly which version of Roy's death is better is always going to be a matter of personal opinion, though it probably is worth noting that in DYRL it wasn't nearly as traumatic for Claudia, who seemed to think that was probably the way he would've wanted to go.

Claudia probably later realized that the idiot flyboy should've gone to the hospital.

Personally, I thought the TV series death of Roy Fokker was stupid. Dramatic maybe but stupid. The character being stupid and the whole unrealistic idea of him going to Claudia's place to keel over.

While the DYRL death is perhaps cliche, it's a bit more believable for me.

Edited March 17, 2010 by Vifam7

[Agent ONE]

SDFM was awesome... DYRL was 10x better though.

I'm 33 years old... I can't show a friend SDFM, its just too kiddie. But I show MANY friends DYRL.

[aquilon]

Focker was the CAG of the Macross 'air" wing - therefore he had a responsibility and obligation to his pilots and the Macross to take care of himself. His death in SDF:M was dumb as no professional combat pilot would put his health in jeopardy just so he can keep a date w/ his GF. Claudia being military would understand if he was a no-show because he was laid up in medical with life threatening torso wounds.

Edited March 22, 2010 by aquilon

[dreamweaver13]

Focker was the CAG of the Macross 'air" wing - therefore he had a responsibility and obligation to his pilots and the Macross to take care of himself. His death in SDF:M was dumb as no professional combat pilot would put his health in jeopardy just so he can keep a date w/ his GF. Claudia being military would understand if he was a no-show because he was laid up in medical with life threatening torso wounds.

You're all missing the point. Focker is not an adult... HE IS A MAN! Real men don't go to doctors! (Unless the doctor is smokin' hot).

[Vifam7]

You're all missing the point. Focker is not an adult... HE IS A MAN! Real men don't go to doctors! (Unless the doctor is smokin' hot).

You don't go to the hospital to check out the doctor. You go to see the hot nurses. Like the one Hikaru had -

[Gubaba]

You don't go to the hospital to check out the doctor. You go to see the hot nurses. Like the one Hikaru had -

...who was based, by the way, on Matsuda Seiko: