Macross TV or DYRL?

[VFTF1]

Good that you mention Fokker...

One thing that really makes DYRL a let down for me is Fokker's death scene...

It's ironic that a serialized animated cartoon gave us almost two dozen episodes building up a great Fokker character, a poetic death in Pineapple Salad and then some more background info via Claudia in the epilogue episodes while a supposedly more mature, film like DYRL gave us a drunk, womanizing non-entity who goes out in Battloid mode and a cliched line about telling Claudia something.

Fokker's death in SDFM TV was brilliant, Fokker's death in DYRL was just bad, and the character was totally under developed.

That really spoils a lot of the movie for me...

Also - on that note - Misa and Hikaru spend way to much time together in DYRL, which - for me - dilutes from the love that oddly, slowly grows between them...

In SDFM TV Claudia tells Hikaru on the park bench about loving a person you never notice on a daily basis but who is always there - and there's just so much tension and excitment built around Misa and Hikaru's love because it's mature, real, slow to progress, well grounded and wonderfully contrasted to what I feel is the inevitable "warm fuzzy feeling" fling that plagues Hikaru with Minmei..

DYRL turns that whole dynamic inside out by forcing Hikaru and Misa to get to know one another on Earth rather than fleshing the relationship out in the improbable way that SDFM TV did...

Every time I think of strong points about DYRL all I can think of is the Mecha and the more "bio-mechanical" Zendraedi - which are nifty and neeto... but just don't really fly my kite.

VFTF1

[lechuck]

I'd have to give DYRL the nod over SDF.

Two things that bug me with SDF:

1) Animation quality is just poor. I realize this is an old show, but it's just not holding up to time very well.

Story is still good, but the poor quality animation just kept on preventing me in fully emerging into the show.

(Wish the quality was on par with Mospeada or maybe even Zeta Gundam)

2) For some reason the resolution of the love triangle in SDF doesn't quite sit well with me. I can't realy point

my finger at it, but whole confrontation between Hikaru, Misa and Minmei sort of lacks "oomph" compared to DYRL (Hikaru's quarter).

[Garrick]

Personally i like em both.

SDF When i have too much time on my hands and i can watch it all

DYRL when i just want to watch a version of the story in an hour and a half!

[John Focker]

While DYRL is not a bad adaptation, it simply isn't possible to squeeze a storyline of SDF Macross' magnitude into a couple of hours. The magic gets lost in translation. To underrate SDF Macross SOLELY on accounts of graphic quality would be akin to...well...leaving Misa (substance) for Minmay (appearance), since the former has achieved cult classic status despite budget and time constraints.

[Warmaker]

I chose Macross TV.

The story is more fleshed out and you see a much wider spectrum of things. You see much more in-depth story from the initial arrival, to the long quest back to Earth, the epic space battle over Earth (though DYRL? did this very well also), and of course the post-battle storylines with a decimated Earth and UN.

What does DYRL? do well?

- Refined, updated Character Designs (for most parts) by Haruhiko Mikomoto... Misa's hairstyle, for instance

- Fancy animation

- More Mari Ijima singing with a few more very recognizable Macross songs.

- Another take on Max & Millia's fight, but both TV and DYRL? versions rock.

- Meltran warships

DYRL? has alot of good points, but it suffers from what other movies suffer if they're based on a TV series. Too much needs to be told and alot of things are skimmed over or almost ignored. Also:

- Quamzin, a big player in the TV series, has what? 1 minute of screentime in DYRL? I don't think he says much or anything if at all in the movie.

- Personally, I prefer Laplamiz's TV version more.

- Character relationships, since it's a movie, takes a nosedive compared to the TV series, where it has a chance to show alot of events unfold. Again, it's a product of having to do alot of things in a very limited timespan.

[kung flu]

I thought the characters in the movie were much better. Minmay and kaifun were not as annoying as in the TV series. The movie soundtrack was also a big improvement. Its hard to choose which is best because both complement each other. Without the TV series some won't understand the movie.

[Black Valkyrie]

TV series, most of things were ok. As for the movie not that much.

[Skullsixx]

I'm a visual guy... I'll always favor DYRL!

[VFTF1]

Sorry to wade back into this, but I just watched DYRL last night on a nice big screen...well...ok - on a BIGGER screen than YouTube. It's also been about two years since I saw DYRL on youtube ONLY once... since then, I've seen SDFM TV about 10 times maybe... so clearly I thought that maybe my preference for the TV series was on account of having seen DYRL a long time ago and not with much accuracy.

Soo.... here are some thoughts:

1. Initially, I was surprised just how much DYRL reminded me of Macross: Frontier. Naturally, it should have been the other way around, but there were some scenes (Minmey in sport chiche and Minmey and Hikaru's "night on the town") which just reminded me of Sheryl in a similar outfit and - of course - the episode Star Date. I guess since I've not seen DYRL that much, then when I watched Macross: Frontier, I missed these homages - and so, in a pleasant twist - I only realized them now. There were a few more - like, surprisingly, the character designs! Frontier's character designs were pretty clearly in line with Zero - but only now did I realize just how much Zero was in line with DYRL. So 7 and Plus really stick out in this regard. The character designs (by which my mean the general aesthetic of how humans are presented in art) is very different in Plus and Seven, but flows fairly smoothly from DYRL to Zero to Frontier. Interesting....

2. Why do I care about these characters? Sadly - the answer was: because I watched the TV series. This was less true for the main trio; who seemed to have gotte 75% of the screen time - which, I guess, is not surprising given that the dilema of which girl to choose from had to be believable. Nevertheless, despite the film's efforts, I found myself investing the characters with what I knew of their past - albeit - even that was somewhat difficult, because of course in the TV series, Hikaru met Minmey - or at least saw her - in the very first episode; and fell in love with the normal girl she was at that point. DYRL changes this dynamic by basically making the love triangle LESS INTERESTING - because it is between the "love" felt towards idol superstar Lyn Minmey and the love felt towards weak, womanly, dish-washing and flaming hot Misa Hayes.

Seriously - this does not present any sane man much of a dilema. Of course you'd want to kiss Minmey and oogle over Minmey and take Minmey to the motel. But you would not want to marry her. You'd want to Marry Misa because Misa - despite her crusty facade - is a real woman. While Minmey just ACTS like one - because its' her job.

The only problem, however, was that it was hard to feel for Minmey the way you could in the TV series, where the process by which the regular spirited girl was transformed into an idol and distanced from others was played out far better. Here, in the film, it's kind of forced.

All of the other characters basically get only cameos. Which I guess is fine; and to the extent that they are given screen time, it is used well and they are presented well - although this probably adds to why the film is less compelling. It basically thrusts the love triangle so far out to the forefront that the other characters get shoved to the sidelines and somewhat stereotyped.

Case in Point: Roy Fokker.

The film condensing each character into what is essential about their personaility. However, sometimes it is impossible to show a rich personality well if you have to condense. Thus - how do you show someone who is wise and drunk at the same time? How do you show off an ace fighter and have him die in one of the first (and relatively minor) battles shown in the film? How do you show that he deeply loves women while also being a playboy due to fear of death?

DYRL just makes a bit of a mess out of Roy's character because his character is too complex to really portray in such short snippets. This is a pity. Macross Zero doesn't do this - and does a really good job of fleshing out Roy without subtracting from the main love triangle at all.

DYRL is relentless in how it shows the love triangle.

But of course - there is beauty in this. Misa and Hikaru's time on Earth is truly wonderful. And the sight of Misa letting down all her guards and just embracing her womanhood is very moving.

Hikaru - on the other hand - is such a blank slate in this movie. In many ways, he's just a warm body. Ironically, he is also far more decisive than in SDFM TV. I guess that is what I truly like about this movie. I love the scene in which he explicitly chooses Misa.

And I love how the story unfolds in such a way that he must then run after Minmey any ways.

3. The Animation

I have compared it to other series; but I'd like to also comment on it by itself. It is FANTASTIC. AMAZING. A bit too many throbbing eyes full of passion - but these are not poorly animated, just over-used. In general however, it is an amazing achievement - really.

4. Peace? With whom? Why?

This is the only part of the film that bothered me. How did the Zendradi convince Minmey to hum the song for them? Why wasn't Boldoza and his fleet effected by the humming just like the Meltrans were? Why did Boldoza sue for peace with the Macross?

There is just so much contradiction in that...

"We'll use Minmey as a weapon to neutralize the Meltrans - but we ourselves won't be neutralized...at least not until she adds lyrics!" (huh?)

"We want peace with the Macross because...umm....we need a break so Hikaru can profess his love to Misa and Misa can translate the song?" (huh?)

"Ok! No more peace with the Macross because we're going to destroy the Meltrans in one swift attack, which we could have apparently done at any time instead of humming a song to them, and then we'll need someone else to fight." (huh?)

This is just way too garbbled and it seems that the plot somewhat falls apart at this point.

Overall, it's a beautiful movie with a compelling theme and some very exciting and sweet moments.

But yeah - without the background that is SDFM TV, I don't think we'd care much for most of the characters and we would probably be appaled at how rushed and convenient many of the plot point explanations are (I'm thinking here mainly of Misa being versed in ancient Protoculture language and being able to explain away the presence of the Island and talk to the computer)...

But yeah - it's a tough call.

5. Most superfluous character/scene:

Max and Milia.

Yawn. Zero chracterization - it could have been a random fighter pilot fighting a random meldran pilot and then seeing eachother and being like "LOVE!"

Oh - actually - it pretty much was.

But...overall a lovely effort. It's hard not to like - but this is mainly because Misa and Hikaru as a couple are so wonderfully compelling.

The love story is done perfectly.

Pete

[Fadooski]

I voted for the Tv series because, at the end of the day, that's where it all started. The core of everything Macross is SDFM, it's the standard by which we measure every other entry in the franchise. Telling the story in 36 episodes allowed time for the story to breathe. By the time the love triangle's been resolved, all the characters have been firmly established within an inch of their lives and the stakes are clear. SDFM allows for a variety of points of view and experiences to combine into a believable world.

Having said that, I love, love, LOVE DYRL. It's so beautiful to look at! It also adds a lot of elements that were left out of the series. The ancient city scenes are my favourite since it was something new brought to the series. We actually see the devestated, deserted earth which the series didn't show as much of.In DRYL, the horror of it is allowed to sink in. Also, the way ai oboeteimasuka was made central to the plot is one of the things that makes it so focused. It became the anthem of Macross (I remember how shocked I was when Grace had Ranka sing an evil remix of the song in MF).

As was pointed out earlier in the thread. If I want to revisit classic macross but don't have the tie for 18 hours of tv, I can watch DYRL in one sitting. But when I have a chance to marathon the original, it's like nothing else.

[rusted180]

well said VFTF! i feel the same for the points you made....I love this site. while reading through this thread it got me to think..... and im sure this was expressed before in another topic, but i wish they animated a frontier movie that's different in the animation and story that parallels the same universe, much like dyrl. it's always fun to analyze between two different versions and point out what works and what doesn't. In the end i love both storylines. but the fact that i had funner memories as a child watching dyrl(clash of the bionoids) in comparison to robotech...i have to say, dyrl. but aside from all this, both complements each other on what both lacks in terms of story and animation.

[Sdf Prime]

I am going to go with Macross DYRL I saw the movie a long time before I ever saw the tv series and I still love the movie.

Here are some of the things I liked.

Lots of time with Misa and Hikaru.

Misa and Hikarus time on earth and watching them fall in love with one another.

When Hikaru chooses Misa.

Misa being on board the Macross during the final battle and Hikaru being the one to take out Boldoza.

The designs for pretty much everything in the move.

The detailed animation.

[ruskiiVFaussie]

DYRL? , for alot of the reasons mentioned on first page, i feel exactly the same.

Just the whole feel of the movie has me consumed with feelings of awe and satisfaction.

It dragged me back into complete and utter devotion to Macross back in high school.

Edited January 12, 2009 by ruskiiVFaussie

[isamu]

wow this thread seems to have brought out a few people new to the forums. Welcome

As for the question, I like DYRL more. The aural/visual combination is sex on celluloid, and makes for one orgasmic 2hr experience

[pato]

It's really difficult to decide but I have to cast my vote for the TV series. As much as I love DYRL and think that in terms of animation is much superior than even many modern series, the plot of the TV series is more complex and better elaborated than the one in the movie. Furthermore, it is impossible not to love the anguish and desperation present subtly in most of the series despite of the positive end notes of the show. I think that the series stimulates a broader range of emotions than the movie and that's actually what makes the series better (for me).

[VFTF1]

Yes - nice to see so many "new" people suddenly sounding off

I agree about the shortcoming of the movie via the series - but it's kind of like comparing a book to a movie version - if you really love the material and the psychological drama, then the format which drew it out is going to be more appealing...

umm... but a couple of questions I've been mulling over:

1) Did Misa and Hikaru make love inthe Protoculture city?

I ask because to my mind, this is very very much the suggestion for a few reasons:

the scene fades to black as they embrace and kiss and re-opens with Misa zipping up her flight suit the next day as they both come out of the Protoculture home. Now, you COULD of course postulate that they slept there just like they slept in the tent - each in a seperate bed and that they just happened to be getting out now as they heard what would turn out to be the Macross BUT...

a) I think given how they became very close the evening before this is highly doubt-worthy

b) they behaved like two lovers - they kissed again and embraced when they saw the Macross - and it wasn't the "oh how happy we are to see the Macross" type embrace - it was more of the "we're in love and now we're also saved" type of thing

c) Minmey says she doesn't "know" and at the same time doesn't "care" what happened between Misa and Hikaru on the island - but she "still" loves Hikaru. This is the kind of thing a girl tells a guy who she knows has slept with another woman.

d) Hikaru is REALLY dead set on Misa - and it seems to me that, given how young he is and his somewhat devoted character - he would be dead set on Misa. Minmey was "just acting" when she kissed him - and when Hikaru suggested they go to a hotel she took him for...a hamburger instead.

Misa basically melted in his arms and made him feel needed and then - if my hunch is correct - gave herself to him in an explicitly sexual manner.

This may sound "crass" (although I don't think it is) - but it's no wonder Hikaru chooses Misa - Misa makes him feel like a man and is basically a woman who goes to pieces and needs his strenght + she puts out.

Minmey MIGHT be in love with Hikaru - but she never put out - ergo - she made a big mistake, because Misa has made a rather lasting impression on our young hero - one that will tie him to her emotionally in a very very strong way.

A way that simply won't let him be with any other girl.

Point?

My theory is that Hikaru basically chooses Misa because she makes love to him, while Minmey DOESN'T.

given how young Hikaru is, and how un-suave he is with women - this very intimate act by Misa would be enough to lock him into a very strong emotional relationship with her - which is not to say that it's random of course; but I would suspect that if after everything they went through Misa DIDN'T make love to Hikaru that night - then, upon being reunited with Minmey, Hikaru would not feel so passionately that he wants to be with Misa; that he is indebted to Misa...

That he would actually authentically HURT her if - after what she gave him and showed him in terms of both emotions and physical closeness - he were to just say "oh too bad - I'm off to flirt with Minmey."

What do people think?

Pete

[Sdf Prime]

I'll join in on this one.

I my self think that Misa and Hikaru made love in the Protoculture city.The way the scene played out with them kissing and showing them embracing and then fading out and then in the next scene with Misa zipping up her flight suit with Hikaru in the same room and the way they kissed each other when the Macross showed up that was a passionate kiss between lovers in my opinion.

I was thinking leading up to that point it seemed that Misa and Hikaru started understand each other better after the time they spent in the tent. After that they seemed closer to one another when they reached the Protoculture city and when the computer in the city first activated I notice that she went and held on to hikaru.

In the scene when he returned to Misa after he had searched the Protoculture city and found Misa setting the table and welcoming him home I think he saw her as a woman and not just a commanding officer and Hikaru seemed surprised at seeing her like that. When they were sitting at the table both smiling at each other they were starting act like a couple .

After that when Misa and Hikaru kissed and the way they kissed holding each other and the fade out it seems that they most likely made love before the Macross showed up to me.

I my self think that Misa would only have given herself to Hikaru if she was in love with him and that she was sure that he was in love with her. I think Hikaru would have been the same with her. I think Misa and Hikaru would only have made love to each other if they were in love with each other and when they did I think they were in love.

There are my two pennies on that one.

Edited January 12, 2009 by Sdf Prime

[Agent ONE]

Everything was better in DYRL

[Killer Robot]

I saw DYRL before I'd actually seen the TV series. It was pretty and all, and had some neat stuff, but it really wasn't amazing or life-altering or anything. It was a bit muddled, seemed to jump around a lot, and had characters I couldn't much get into. I almost forgot about it until some years later when I finally watched the TV series, and after that DYRL really came to life.

I think the movie just builds itself entirely around being an amazing visual splash/reimagining for people already familiar with the story and attached to the characters from watching the TV series, and isn't really a work to stand on its own so much as a supplement to the original.

Edited January 12, 2009 by Killer Robot

[Fadooski]

Now that I think about it, Hikaru and Misa probably did have sex. That last kiss as the SDF-MACROSS arrives is very intimate, like they're already lovers.

I think the sex, if it did happen, is just a symptom of the intimacy that they'd built up between them. For a while they were the only two people in the world. Rank was meaningless. Their false perceptions of eachother were replaced with more understanding.

[DJ_Convoy]

TV, but I was surprised how much I enjoyed DYRL when I rewatched it recently.

[JB0]

I saw DYRL before I'd actually seen the TV series. It was pretty and all, and had some neat stuff, but it really wasn't amazing or life-altering or anything. It was a bit muddled, seemed to jump around a lot, and had characters I couldn't much get into. I almost forgot about it until some years later when I finally watched the TV series, and after that DYRL really came to life.

I think the movie just builds itself entirely around being an amazing visual splash/reimagining for people already familiar with the story and attached to the characters from watching the TV series, and isn't really a work to stand on its own so much as a supplement to the original.

*claps*

I do have to say, though...

As hard as I've been on the movie before, I don't want anyone getting the impression I hate it. It's a fun movie, it's just doo dependent on the TV series.

And even within the limits placed on it as a remake requiring prior knowledge, there IS still a fairly ambitious plot. And they really care about the characters, even if they don't have enough time to develop a lot of things.

They try very hard to avoid turning into raw mechaporn. And it seems like that was hard to do in the mid-80s.

[VFTF1]

One big flaw in the movie plot was that it was never explained why/how the Macross left Earth and why/how the civilian population came to be aboard and from where/why they are trying to return to Earth. That is a big big failure in the plot. Minmey just says at the beginning that it's been six months since they "left" Earth...

One could get the impression that the Macross was an Ark like vessel that fled Earth as it was coming under alien attack...

Also - another issue...

In SDFM TV, the Zendradi are after the reaction weaponry on the Macross. Here, they seem to initially just want to destroy the Macross (although the aim of their pursuit is never explained), but then switch to suddenly wanting to use the power of Song as a weapon?

So - instead of Reaction weaponry - am I to understand that the Zendradi pursued the Macross in the hopes of securing the powerful protoculture weapon that was song?

And why did Boldoza think that Minmey's singing would effect a surrender from the Meltrans but not pacify his own forces?

Also - why was he so quick to just give up on that plan and annihilate Lamplitz?

And why did he create a second front by attacking the Macross and the Island?

Also - if there was peace between Boldoza and the Macross; and Minmey was "missing" and the lyrics were "not ready yet" - then couldn't Boldoza have just - you know - CALLED the Macross and said "hey - where's Minmey? Why aren't the lyrics done yet?"

The Zendradi knew enough about diplomatic protocol to send those three envoys to negotiate a peace - so...why couldn't they follow through?

It just seems that they could have ironed out some of these plot points better....

Pete

[YJK]

TV series.

First saw DYRL years ago, unsubbed (talking over 15 years now). I had heard of Macross, but never saw the original show, only watched a little bit of Robotech when I was a kid.

Again, I saw it unsubbed and in Japanese, so I had no idea of what was going on, but I thought it was GREAT. Just the whole epic "feel", the music and the GORGEOUS eye candy were enough to keep me interested. Plus I was about 15 at the time, so I loved the intense violence (especially the Zentraedi splatterfest during Miria's first attack).

But now, though, I watch a subtitled version online, and now I see that the story itself is really kind of rushed and there are a number of plot holes (some of which have already been mentioned, but my favorite is how Misa knows how to operate the computer system of a 10,000 year old civilization that she just discovered). But I still enjoy watching it, it certainly has a lot of great moments (the final attack is incredible, as is the Max/Miria dogfight), and visually it's still an absolute joy to watch. I still think it's the best looking "traditionally animated" (no CG) anime I've ever seen.

Now I'm watching the original series, and while the animation looks very dated, I'm amazed at how much thought really went into the story and the characters. I just finished episode 20, and I love how the show is hitting a lot of different storylines at the same time, in an intelligent way. The way Hikaru and Minmei are drifting apart, with Minmei off making movies and being a big star and Hikaru dealing with the fact that Kakizaki and Focker are dead. The way that UN Spacy is so cruel to the Macross and its people, using it as a sacrificial lamb and political tool rather than let the civilians off, and the way that they told everyone else on earth that the inhabitants of South Ataria Island are dead. The way Captain Global has to give a press conference with a heavy heart, telling everyone that they are being forced by the UN to leave the earth within 24 hours.

Sure, there are a few things that are a little cheesy(the ability of the city to recover from almost any attack, without any limit on resources or whatnot, for instance) but it really is on the whole smartly written and nuanced. As a character drama, a love story, a war story, it really is hitting on all cylinders. Awesome, awesome show.

DYRL looks great, and I still enjoy it a LOT, but the storyline is so much juicier (and the supporting characters are much better defined- Kakizaki had, what, two lines in the movie before he died?) in the TV series that I have to give it the nod.

[IXTL]

DYRL hands down.

The best of the TV series distilled in a format just under 2hrs (the TV series dragged esp. after the ep 27). Refined animation that holds up well even today (TV series hasn't aged well imho), nicer character and mecha designs plus a great soundtrack.

Loved:

- The more alien look for the Zentradi.

- Zentradi spoken language.

- The redesigned SDF-1.

- Launch arms on the ARMD for the VF-1s.

- Vermillion squadron incorporated into Roy's Skull Squadron and given unified color schemes.

- Strike parts!

- Max VF-1S and Millia Q-Rau dog fight

- The climax with Minmay's 愛・おぼえていますか song.

- plus more I can't think of right now.

Edited January 15, 2009 by IXTL

[ruskiiVFaussie]

Of course Misa and Hik had it "oun" *french tone ou-ou-ounnn*.

I like to think DYRL? has ghosts of the TV series characters in there, it's like you expect them to behave this way, therefore accept

what happens in DYRL? much easier than if it was a completely new story with new characters that we had to fall in love with again.

Minmay was really hardly done by, unlucky, If Hik and Misa didn't do it, then Minmay would have gobbled him up at the re-union

stage, and Misa wouldn't stand much of a chance (if the movie continued it's course.) I know i would have a hard time choosing.

Hikaru wasn't as noobish with chicks compared to the TV series, he was sooo hopeless.

Minny was a babe in DYRL? (love the bed flop scene), even her twit cousin was bearable!

That's why the TV series is so much richer with emotion, more people to dislike and grow with, and more episodes to emerse in.

Global was pure awesome. As he always is, Want to see more battles with Global again.

Max is perfect either DYRL? of TV. His stunts are extremely re-watchable.

Edited January 16, 2009 by ruskiiVFaussie

[VFTF1]

If Hik and Misa didn't do it, then Minmay would have gobbled him up at the re-union

Actually, Minmey was ready to gobble him up even though she was pretty sure Hikaru HAD slept with Misa.

Maybe this is also something that put Hikaru off.

Minmey is the kind of girl who has no female shame - which I personally think is a highly desirable and attractive trait in a woman. Of course, initially, this lack of female shame seems great - like it did to Hikaru when Minmey "showed him" how to "act in love" and kissed him.

But then, you suddenly realize that this also means the girl a) could be like that toward any other guy, b) thinks very little of true love, c) has burried her emotions, d) will never be authentically intimate with you.

Misa was the complete opposite. In her behavior, she made Hikaru wonder whether she was "really even a woman?" Then, when Hikaru kissed her out of military necessity, she slapped him ANYWAYS (showing that despite her understanding of the situation, she still has this female instinct of female shame) and then later she progressively goes to pieces and is ONLY happy on Earth for a moment when she can "play" house - but even that doesn't sustain her - and she comes apart emotionally and needs Hikaru as a man to put give her a sense of stability and meaning.

So - maybe I over-simplified by saying that Misa got Hikaru just because she managed to sleep with him first. Minmey also had her chance - when Hikaru motioned towards the Motel during their date - but she didn't do it. Why? I'm guessing it was partially because it was a skanky motel and not the Ritz I'm also guessing that in a way - Hikaru was an opportunity for Minmey to "escape" a little bit from her life a star... And 'escaping from being a star' is not the same thing as truly loving and needing another person.

In any event - look how she acts during the reunion. She just hugs him and later comes up to his room and tries to make out with him - it's not really an "I love you and need you" scene as much as an "I don't care if you slept with some other girl and I'm not really much bothered to discuss our feelings and the situation, I just want to possess you." That's how I read it.

Contrast with Misa: Misa - although the whole situation hurts her very very much - since she authentically trusted Hikaru when she slept with him - not only keeps her cool, but then - through tears - tells him to go after Minmey. And she doesn't say it in a mean way like "you lying cheat! Go away" - she says is as someone who loves him enough to let him go for the sake of his own Happiness.

And then - boom: Hikaru tells her he loves her and delivers the best line "I could die any day - so - if you don't mind sombody like me"...

My favorite scene in the whole movie

I think Minmey understands at the end - that's how I read the girls' little exchange of peace-smiles. I think Minmey has enough guys and has her own life and dreams and doesn't really love Hikaru but understands that Misa does - and she should just step out of the way.

Pete

[505thAirborne]

Since this thread opened, I've tried to vote and yet it is so hard to decide which is the better one.... I know its an evil curse word here, But I originally grew up watching the Macross saga of Robotech. (I warned you of foul language) and that was in 1985, that same year I got to see Macross DYRL. And in one short year my eyes exploded, my mind opened and forever a connection was formed to these Characters. Though the story lines of RT and Macross are apples & oranges, Its still Hikaru, Misa, Minmey, SDF-1 and the rest of the cast. You still go through their adventures, triumphs, struggles and losses. For an anime series, either way its an emotional ride. And is still my all time favorite series. And yes I own both RT & MACROSS TV series on DVD. Every time I watch them, immediately I am back in time to 1985 as a child and still amazed by what I see, its that powerful for me. Though the animation can be rough at times or pure amazing, its something to behold. And nothing in my opinion has reached such a level.

Then we have the Macross DYRL movie. How many ways can we say Wow, Holy Sh_t that was awesome!! Between the redesigned uniforms, everyone is part of Skull squadron, the new style of the SDF-1, everything is just even more amazing, special and deeper than before. The story is good, not as in depth as the series, but hey its only 2 hrs long, not 36 episodes.... The CGI, the music and of course Minmey's love song in the final battle are just true brilliance. Its all more than words can describe, however if you have not ever watched the original TV series, and this is just my thought, may not be yours. The MACROSS movie is impressive, but lacks the energy if you have never seen the series 1st. Its the connection we make with these characters that bonds us forever. They are anime characters yes, but after watching the whole series start to finish, they become more than anime figures.... its as if they are people we have come to know, respect & care about. Not many anime series can accomplish that. But either the TV series or DYRL are equally emotional.

Sorry for the long ramble, but Macross is very very special to me.

Edited January 17, 2009 by 505thAirborne

[koushiro]

I asked the very same question to my wife and we both agreed both.

we both started watching Macross in Japan on the Air force base

when it was re-shown on tv in 1987 we saw the Movie at the base Theatre

in 1988 we watched it again in Hawaii in 1989 and so i feel the same way

Macross is very specail to both me and my wife.

Like old friends we still love the Laserdisc,VCDs,VHS, and dvds we collected.

we love the new Macross we picked up in Hawaii a 3 disc all episode

Macross Frontier dvd and its something that stills holds magic for us both

and from what you typed you feel the same way.

Me and my wife grew up on the base housing called the Flight line and we loved the

Jets and personel we saw from our backyards.

Being Air force brats Macross is very special because from where we sat we saw real Jets

and pilots.

Since this thread opened, I've tried to vote and yet it is so hard to decide which is the better one.... I know its an evil curse word here, But I originally grew up watching the Macross saga of Robotech. (I warned you of foul language) and that was in 1985, that same year I got to see Macross DYRL. And in one short year my eyes exploded, my mind opened and forever a connection was formed to these Characters. Though the story lines of RT and Macross are apples & oranges, Its still Hikaru, Misa, Minmey, SDF-1 and the rest of the cast. You still go through their adventures, triumphs, struggles and losses. For an anime series, either way its an emotional ride. And is still my all time favorite series. And yes I own both RT & MACROSS TV series on DVD. Every time I watch them, immediately I am back in time to 1985 as a child and still amazed by what I see, its that powerful for me. Though the animation can be rough at times or pure amazing, its a something to behold. And nothing in my opinion has reached such a level.

Then we have the Macross DYRL movie. How many ways can we say Wow, Holy Sh_t that was awesome!! Between the redesigned uniforms, everyone is part of Skull squadron, the new style of the SDF-1, everything is just even more amazing, special and deeper than before. The story is good, not as in depth as the series, but hey its only 2 hrs long, not 36 episodes.... The CGI, the music and of course Minmey's love song in the final battle are just true brilliance. Its all more than words can describe, however if you have not ever watched the original TV series, and this is just my thought, may not be yours. The MACROSS movie is impressive, but lacks the energy if you have never seen the series 1st. Its the connection we make with these characters that bonds us forever. They are anime characters yes, but after watching the whole series start to finish, they become more than anime figures.... its as if they are people we have come to know, respect & care about. Not many anime series can accomplish that. But either the TV series or DYRL are equally emotional.

Sorry for the long ramble, but Macross is very very special to me.

[505thAirborne]

Hey koushiro, its good to know others out there have such a deep appreciation for this series. Both the TV series & Movie. When i was kid, Van Nuys Airport still had an active Air National Guard wing there, Mostly C-130's, but still fun to see them fly over. Occasionally a B-52, but that was rare. No real Fighter jets, but was still fun to see come over the house!! Take care!

[SchizophrenicMC]

Honestly, I don't have a good answer to this one. I like 'em both equally.

DYRL? had a slightly more real sense to it, but SDFM has the detail and background that I like. SDFM had time to explore character backgrounds; something you can't do in a 2-and-a-half hour movie. DYRL?'s designs and a lot of the romantic development made more sense.

So, I'm gonna go 50/50 and not vote.

[Mercurial Morpheus]

I saw DYRL before I'd actually seen the TV series. It was pretty and all, and had some neat stuff, but it really wasn't amazing or life-altering or anything. It was a bit muddled, seemed to jump around a lot, and had characters I couldn't much get into. I almost forgot about it until some years later when I finally watched the TV series, and after that DYRL really came to life.

I think the movie just builds itself entirely around being an amazing visual splash/reimagining for people already familiar with the story and attached to the characters from watching the TV series, and isn't really a work to stand on its own so much as a supplement to the original.

This and VFTF1 nailed it. I think DYRL is a fabulous film, and highly entertaining. It practically cemented my love for the original Macross. That said though, it's obviously a film for fans. Especially character-wise So many details that make Macross so rich are lost or obscured in DYRL. Like the whole Riber bit. An unexplained flashback while Misa is lectured on romance. A nonfan may not get it, but a fan is invoked of memories from "Bye Bye Mars".

So I voted TV. DYRL is pretty, but I'm a story/character kind of guy. You just can't fit 12 hours worth of info into a two hour film. That, and I also loved the epilogue episodes. The idea that, even though the Earth's been all but destroyed, everyone's happy not being the final ending really stood out. Though I still love DYRL, and watch it when I need a fix of the original cast. It just stands much better as a love letter to fans rather than on it's own.

[dreamweaver13]

Actually, Minmey was ready to gobble him up even though she was pretty sure Hikaru HAD slept with Misa.

Maybe this is also something that put Hikaru off.

Minmey is the kind of girl who has no female shame - which I personally think is a highly desirable and attractive trait in a woman. Of course, initially, this lack of female shame seems great - like it did to Hikaru when Minmey "showed him" how to "act in love" and kissed him.

But then, you suddenly realize that this also means the girl a) could be like that toward any other guy, b) thinks very little of true love, c) has burried her emotions, d) will never be authentically intimate with you.

Misa was the complete opposite. In her behavior, she made Hikaru wonder whether she was "really even a woman?" Then, when Hikaru kissed her out of military necessity, she slapped him ANYWAYS (showing that despite her understanding of the situation, she still has this female instinct of female shame) and then later she progressively goes to pieces and is ONLY happy on Earth for a moment when she can "play" house - but even that doesn't sustain her - and she comes apart emotionally and needs Hikaru as a man to put give her a sense of stability and meaning.

So - maybe I over-simplified by saying that Misa got Hikaru just because she managed to sleep with him first. Minmey also had her chance - when Hikaru motioned towards the Motel during their date - but she didn't do it. Why? I'm guessing it was partially because it was a skanky motel and not the Ritz I'm also guessing that in a way - Hikaru was an opportunity for Minmey to "escape" a little bit from her life a star... And 'escaping from being a star' is not the same thing as truly loving and needing another person.

In any event - look how she acts during the reunion. She just hugs him and later comes up to his room and tries to make out with him - it's not really an "I love you and need you" scene as much as an "I don't care if you slept with some other girl and I'm not really much bothered to discuss our feelings and the situation, I just want to possess you." That's how I read it.

Contrast with Misa: Misa - although the whole situation hurts her very very much - since she authentically trusted Hikaru when she slept with him - not only keeps her cool, but then - through tears - tells him to go after Minmey. And she doesn't say it in a mean way like "you lying cheat! Go away" - she says is as someone who loves him enough to let him go for the sake of his own Happiness.

And then - boom: Hikaru tells her he loves her and delivers the best line "I could die any day - so - if you don't mind sombody like me"...

My favorite scene in the whole movie

I think Minmey understands at the end - that's how I read the girls' little exchange of peace-smiles. I think Minmey has enough guys and has her own life and dreams and doesn't really love Hikaru but understands that Misa does - and she should just step out of the way.

Pete

hey, i know you have a girlfriend who looks like Misa (that is you, right?), but, woah, that's harsh on minmay. you just stopped short of calling her a sl*t.

like you, i love that scene. but while all of it was happening, i actually felt bad for minmay. i did not see it as a "i'll sleep with you even if you already slept with misa coz i own you" thing. rather, to me, it was more of an "i understand, those were crazy times, we all thought we were gonna die. i forgive you, and i still love you" kind of thing. and from my perspective, i didn't notice any indication that minmay didn't really love Hikaru in DYRL. in SDFM, maybe, but not DYRL. from all indications, Hikaru could very well have been the first and only love of her life (aside from music, but c'mon, that doesn't keep you warm at night when you're alone, now does it? ). Misa, on the other hand, still had Riber.

just my view on it. and i'm not slamming Misa in this one. as far as i'm concerned, in the DYRL version, it's Hikaru (and only Hikaru) who acted like a jerk in the triangle.

and oh yeah, i answered this poll before, but i'll answer it again nevertheless. SDFM TV, hands down!

[Nexx Stalker]

TV hands down!

DYRL is nice but it's basically just a fast paced recap of the TV series that adds something to the protoculture background but nothing more

TV, apart from a longer, better storyline and much more developed characters, is also the one I fell in love with. Some other points that make the original beat the theatrical version:

- Roy's demise in TV can't be beaten, I still cry like a calf everytime I see it

- Flightsuits and helmets (I never liked their DYRL reimagination)

- VF1J

[VF5SS]

The designs in DYRL are much more timeless. In the TV show the flight suits and uniforms are just ripped off from Gundam and Yamato.