Macross TV or DYRL?

[Area88]

Do you prefer the original series Super Dimensional Fortress Macross from 1982 or the alternative retelling movie Macross: Do You Remember Love from 1984?

I'm one of the few who prefer the DYRL movie over the TV series.

Here are my reasons why:

a) Character Designs - updated, very detailed and fluid

b) Overall Tone - more serious tone with older and more mature characters in age and persona.

c) Soundtrack - Took all our favourite songs from the TV series and gave us even better ones to go with it.

d) Story - The movie is much more focused on the love triangle than the the TV series ever was. DYRL took all the best elements from the TV series and magnified them to deliver the perfect story.

Combine DYRL with the ending from Macross Flashback 2012 and you surely have a story that cannot be beaten?

What do you prefer and why?

Edited February 21, 2007 by Area88

[The Flying Monkey]

DYRL

I'll just use your reasons, with my responses, because your list works.

Character Designs - that's comparing budget and available technology IMO. Of course DYRL is better.

Overall Tone - yes, more serious, less time for the lighter, comedic elements in TV. This is a draw, IMO.

Soundtrack - this is where DYRL takes off. I like DYRL for the same reasons I like "Blade Runner": great visuals combined with a great soundtrack.

Story - TV has the edge here, hands down. DYRL's story is completely dependent on TV. But I don' re-watch a movie because of its great story. If the best thing about a movie is its story, I don't need to see it more than once.

[Mowe]

Dido everything on the 1st post.

I always find the second arc of the TV series (when they returned to Earth) was too slow and didn't have the punch of the earlier eps.

DYRL improved almost every aspect of the TV but remained faithful to the essential ideas of the Macross series.

[Torii]

I liked the music used in DYRL quite a bit. And I don't know if its because I haven't had the opportunity to pick up the rest of the TV, but several plot points in DYRL draw to me more.

[Hurin]

Story-wise: TV series. And, I'm one of the strange ones that think that the post-rain-of-death storylines are the best part of the series. Something appealed to me about them as an adolescent. The desperation and the poignancy. And, since I always liked the love triangle stuff as much as the Valkyries, I don't mind the lack of "super-cool battle sequences."

I've always been an "epilogue" type of guy. I like to see the aftermath after the "real story" has happened.

[Oihan]

I voted for Do You Remember Love? because the detail in the animation is better than it is in TV. ...From the part where we see the Valkyries taking off at the start...the battle sequence where we first see Hikaru, Max, Kakizaki, and Roy...the battle sequence with the Destroids (I love the sound effects) all the way up to the haul breach...the battle sequence where Roy's drunk...all eye and ear candy!! The music and BGM...!

Btw, anyone know where I can find the altered version of "Dogfighter" where drunken Roy comes to save Hikaru/Minmay and Hikaru yells "Sempai!"? Thanks.

[Duymon]

Animation and designs had better be better since DYRL is after all a 2nd run of the space war 1 story.

Why I like DYRL better?

Roy + Strike

However, only one thing turned me off from DYRL.

Miria shoulda become tiny again and flown a valk I didn't like seeing Max in girly skintight suit How could they have done that to my fav character? >_<

[UN Spacy]

Btw, anyone know where I can find the altered version of "Dogfighter" where drunken Roy comes to save Hikaru/Minmay and Hikaru yells "Sempai!"? Thanks.

Song is called The Fate Of A Battle.

It's on Macross The Complete CD's.

[Zinjo]

Storywise, I prefer SDFM (even with the flat epilogue episodes), visually I prefer DYRL in just about every aspect. To the thought out handling of space based fighter launches to the ominous look of the Zentran.

The aspects of the "Atlantis" like city, the heroic death of Roy, the knife fight in a phone booth battle between Max and Millia and other story pearls found in DYRL are very much appreciated, but the overall story is what I enjoyed in SDFM.

The comedic elements of SDFM remind me of real life situations where someone always finds humor in the most dire of circumstances (explains why I like Joss Whedon's writing so much).

DYRL was an excellent movie in that it was a tight story, fast paced that didn't let the audience get bored at all.

So given a choice, I'd prefer SDFM, however I'd love to see the DYRL visuals plugged into SDFM to really bring it all together since all Macross shows post DYRL have taken their design elements from that movie and not the series.

[Lonewolf]

Went for DYRL, since it's got great visuals and it combines the most important aspects of the tv series.

EDIT: Grammar

Edited February 19, 2007 by Lonewolf

[JB0]

Story-wise: TV series. And, I'm one of the strange ones that think that the post-rain-of-death storylines are the best part of the series. Something appealed to me about them as an adolescent. The desperation and the poignancy. And, since I always liked the love triangle stuff as much as the Valkyries, I don't mind the lack of "super-cool battle sequences."

I've always been an "epilogue" type of guy. I like to see the aftermath after the "real story" has happened.

Seconded. I LOVE when a story doesn't just end with "and they all lived happily ever after."

The epilogue stories add a layer of depth that most stories lack.

DYRL is certainly prettier, but it feels like a caricature of the TV series. Large parts are missing, including the entire first half, and much of what IS left has been exaggerated to ridiculous proportions.

[SpacyAce2012]

While I liked the superb animation of DYRL, I favor the televison series. Just for that "classic" feel and in-depth story.

[Mowe]

Wow, the poll is dead even right now, interesting.

[promethuem5]

I like the tv series far more for the plot and such... much more fun overall, and the end stuff is really good. DYRL? has some of the most awesome mecha battles and animation ever, but the modified plotline totally threw me off and bored me to tears... truth be told, I just pop in DYRL to watch the beginning battle, and then skip ahead to the end...

[Mowe]

Hume...interesting, I always thought the plot and messages in DYRL are a lot more clever and succinct, for example:

- it gives a better understanding and more interesting insight to the origin of the aliens, I love the idea that women and men were born to fight with each other, it is quit cheeky but clever.

- I was very impressed with the subliminal message that without culture, civilization is destined to engage warfare and self disruption - culture is equally effective as a weapon than a cannon.

Also, DYRL has the bonus of not having a lot of screen time of that annoying Minmay cousin.

... but the modified plotline totally threw me off and bored me to tears... truth be told, I just pop in DYRL to watch the beginning battle, and then skip ahead to the end...

Edited February 20, 2007 by Mowe

[JB0]

Hume...interesting, I always thought the plot and messages in DYRL are a lot more clever and succinct, for example:

- it gives a better understanding and more interesting insight to the origin of the aliens, I love the idea that women and men were born to fight with each other, it is quit cheeky but clever.

Clever? You're joking, right?

Look up cliche in a dictionary and it says "war of the sexes."

That was one of the WORST plot changes, IMO.

- I was very impressed with the subliminal message that without culture, civilization is destined to engage warfare and self disruption - culture is equally effective as a weapon than a cannon.

But that's present in the original too.

Also, DYRL has the bonus of not having a lot of screen time of that annoying Minmay cousin.

Touche.

[myk]

DYRL, mainly for the...oh who cares...

[VFTF1]

I voted Macross TV.

It's a perfect story with just enough restraint on its' part - strangely, my favorite episode is the one where Misa sits around at the cafe waiting for Hikaru to show up all day and then forgives him and then is doubly hurt when she sees the writing on Hikaru's scarf from Minmey...

That episode was able to pull heart strings largely because for the past 30 plus episodes we'd really come to know and feel for the characters through a vast complex story line... and then they're in this situation with us just sitting there feeling the tension and - well - me personally - feeling really sorry for Lisa who seems far more mature and intelligent than Minmey who is a bit of a cry-baby...

Anyways - DYRL relies on us having this deep emotional attachment to characters from Macross TV for it to work...

But of course - that's just not right... by skimming over stuff and focusing on battles, DYRL dilutes our emotional attachment...

I personally prefer things like Macross Zero, where we get a really good Roy Fokker story without having to bucher the Fokker we know from Macross TV too much.

VFTF1

[Area88]

But of course - that's just not right... by skimming over stuff and focusing on battles, DYRL dilutes our emotional attachment...

Really? I thought DYRL had more emotional impact than the series. Almost the whole movie was developed to focus on the love triangle. The characters were more mature so we could sympathise with them more especially Minmay, you couldn't help but feel sorry for her at the end. Actually seeing Hikaru be decsive and following Focker's advice about sometimes needing to be aggressive when finding the woman he loves. I found the whole movie a very rewarding expirience.

[Mowe]

Clever? You're joking, right? Look up cliche in a dictionary and it says "war of the sexes." That was one of the WORST plot changes, IMO.

Um….I don’t like your tone, you sound like an as.s hole ready to pick a fight, IMO .

And I wasn’t joking, I meant what I posted .

I think it is a clever twist because in just one move, it clearly tells the viewers that there are 2 opposing forces that have been battling for centuries. Cliché as it might be, it is an efficient way to give a valid reason for this on going war, that is, there are two competing races from 2 different backgrounds trying to out do each other.

The writer could have pick Black Man vs White Man or Battalion 106 vs Battalion 302 to represent the opposing sides. Given this is an hour long movie, he was smart enough to pick “Men vs Women†because he knew “War of the Sexes†had always been an universal theme, even a child can grasp the concept quickly without wasting too much screen time to explain why they are fighting. Nice and clean.

The TV series had times to develop and explain the rivalry within the Zantradian force, the Movie doesn’t. And this is why I think this twist is clever.

Cliché alone is not a good enough reason to decide whether a plot is bad or good. Just in case you haven’t notice, many great movies have cliché and unbearable cheesy moments and if they are done correctly, they complement the film.

But that's present in the original too.

I know it is in the original, but it took 26 esps to bring the message across while the movie did it in less than 2hrs. And that is what I meant by succinct.

Touche.

Don’t tell me you are a fan of that annoying pesty cousin….

[Zinjo]

Actually the Meltran vs Zentran animosity is supposed to date back to the days of the PC civil war... DYRL just made it a modern conflict as opposed to an ancient one.

[Mr March]

I choose SDF Macross, though only just.

DYRL? is great, but in different ways. The story of SDF Macross I prefer better, but so much of DYRL? takes the aspects of SDF Macross and improves them. If DYRL? felt more like a feature film rather than a 2 hour recap made just for fans, I'd choose DYRL? no contest. As it is, I love SDF Macross better as a coherent whole.

[Oihan]

I choose SDF Macross, though only just.

DYRL? is great, but in different ways. The story of SDF Macross I prefer better, but so much of DYRL? takes the aspects of SDF Macross and improves them. If DYRL? felt more like a feature film rather than a 2 hour recap made just for fans, I'd choose DYRL? no contest. As it is, I love SDF Macross better as a coherent whole.

I agree with you and others that the story in TV is much better...for it's more fleshed out and there's more to it...but the animation in DYRL? is just superb.

[jenius]

Man, I haven't voted yet, I'm really torn. If it weren't for the whole Atlantis-like city in DYRL I'd go with DYRL. I liked the condensed version of the love plot with less hemming and hawing. I actually sympathized with Minmay a bit in DYRL whereas in the original series I didn't feel bad for her at all until the reconstruction era. I totally see where the Atlantis-like city was beneficial in DYRL to keep the plot cooking along and tie everything together but I just didn't buy it. So... for now, I'm still undecided... but I'm probably leaning toward the TV version of the story.

[JB0]

Um….I don’t like your tone, you sound like an as.s hole ready to pick a fight, IMO .

And I wasn’t joking, I meant what I posted .

I probably am an ass.

'S just one of those things that comes up ALL THE TIME, but seems to have no real merit. Sort of like Flashback 2012(which is a whole 'nother can o' worms). And I just don't see it as a brilliant twist.

I think it is a clever twist because in just one move, it clearly tells the viewers that there are 2 opposing forces that have been battling for centuries. Cliché as it might be, it is an efficient way to give a valid reason for this on going war, that is, there are two competing races from 2 different backgrounds trying to out do each other.

The writer could have pick Black Man vs White Man or Battalion 106 vs Battalion 302 to represent the opposing sides. Given this is an hour long movie, he was smart enough to pick “Men vs Women†because he knew “War of the Sexes†had always been an universal theme, even a child can grasp the concept quickly without wasting too much screen time to explain why they are fighting. Nice and clean.

The TV series had times to develop and explain the rivalry within the Zantradian force, the Movie doesn’t. And this is why I think this twist is clever.

The TV series also didn't pitch the humans as luckless fools that happened to get caught in the crossfire.

They were luckless fools that accidentally started a war by not replacing the computer on a refurbished alien gunship. But the whole setup is skipped in the movie anyways.

The breaking of ranks in the final showdown, of course, was originally due to cultural contamination.

Which was still present in the movie, and COULD have been developed as the reason for the final battle instead of the existing "Hey, we can get a cheap shot in on the other side!" angle they did use(which isn't without it's merit, as it echoes the post-war TV arc's theme of zentradi unable to give up fighting and adapt to the human way of life).

And given the large amount of setup skipped in DYRL, there's no real reason to establish a "why" for the war. In fact, it's fairly unclear why they're shooting at the humans in DYRL to start with, or why they razed the Earth.

Cliché alone is not a good enough reason to decide whether a plot is bad or good. Just in case you haven’t notice, many great movies have cliché and unbearable cheesy moments and if they are done correctly, they complement the film.

The zentran/meltran war was, IMO, an incredibly weak plot addition, though. It was ham-handed and really served no purpose other than to give the movie a different story than the TV series(which it was dependent on for plot setup, so contradicting it isn't the greatest of ideas).

That or it was an excuse to get more QRaus onscreen... which I have to admit would be a noble cause.

Don’t tell me you are a fan of that annoying pesty cousin….

Touche is an acknowledgment of defeat.

I was conceding the point, as Kaifun's reduced screen time is inarguably an improvement.

IMO, the place where the movie REALLY shines(aside from general animation detail) is in it's depictions of life in Macross City.

There's a far stronger attempt to illustrate a futuristic setting that's really lacking in the TV series(which leaves you with the feeling that it's the 80s all over again).

[Mr March]

I agree with you and others that the story in TV is much better...for it's more fleshed out and there's more to it...but the animation in DYRL? is just superb.

It was close. Minmay being slapped is almost enough to make any Macross production take the crown. I swear, I lept up and cheered the first time I watched DYRL? Damn, that backhand was a long time coming

[Mowe]

Does seeing Minmay's boob in the shower score any points for the DYRL?? Or the implied shaq scene between Hikaru and Misa when they were alone on Earth??

Edited February 21, 2007 by Mowe

[jenius]

I coulda sworn I saw Minmay's boobs in MacTV...

[Mowe]

I need image prove...

I coulda sworn I saw Minmay's boobs in MacTV...

[Zinjo]

The zentran/meltran war was, IMO, an incredibly weak plot addition, though. It was ham-handed and really served no purpose other than to give the movie a different story than the TV series(which it was dependent on for plot setup, so contradicting it isn't the greatest of ideas).

At the time it was SK's way of fleshing out the background a bit. Something SDFM didn't really have much time for.

The Atlantis city was another plot device to provide greater background dialogue on the PC's relationship with humanity, right up there with Mac 7's temple. SK's penchant for trying to explain the PC's history has always seemed to be clumsily portayed in the Mac productions.

He stated in an interview, post DYRL and pre-Mac Plus, that the actual story of Macross was somewhere between the series and the movie, which we now know from the chronology, meant the PC civil war fought by the Meltran and Zentran forces of the Zentreadi.

Though without the author's notes, I can see how one would conclude there is a contradiction in the stories. The fans at the time did, hence Kawamori's enigmatic explanation.

Edited February 21, 2007 by Zinjo

[Sdf-1]

DYRL! Just everything in that movie is so incredible!

I saw the series so much later than the movie. It wasn't what I expected based on DYRL, but a great classic anyway.

[VFTF1]

Well... maybe I should clarify - DYRL has better visuals, that's obvious...

But when I watch it, I can't avoid the feeling that a large part of the reason why I'm saying "wow!" is because I am seeing my favorite characters in action - just better animated...

But why are they my favorite?

Is it because of something DYRL did?

No - it's because of SDFM TV...

I guess that's all I was trying to say - that ironically DYRL doesn't stand on its' own...

My favorite scene from DYRL is the shot of the Elint Seeker (stupid, I know! )....

But I love the VE1s and I don't remember them really getting featured in SDFM TV

VFTF1

[jenius]

I need image prove...

I was wrong... sorry!

[Bub]

voting for dyrl because of great visuals.

[Area88]

I saw the series so much later than the movie.

Me too. It was DYRL that introducted me to the Macross series.

DYRL is a standalone title and i disagree that the movie is dependant on your knowledge of the TV series. The only reason to watch the TV series before hand is to understand some of the sub characters which don't really get explained but that was never a big deal for me because the only other character i cared for was Roy Focker.

Apart from that, i think DYRL can be watched by anyone since it does a brilliant job of explaining the plot and three central characters.

I only wish Roy Focker had got more screen time in both the series and the movie.