The computer and electronics super geek superthread...

[Chowser]

Where can I check graphic card capabilities on notebooks?

I'm about to get a Dell Inspiron 1720. It has the Geforce 8600M GT 256MB video card with it. I know it's going to be able to do the CAD stuff I need for work (it's a Core2Duo 2.0GHZ, 2GB RAM). I just want to make sure the 8600M can play some decent games. I was looking at a Sager notebook with the 8600M GT 512MB card, but I can't pass on the Dell for $475.

[mikeszekely]

Currently I'm using my Fujitsu Laptop and yes, I saved the BIOS setting before I quit, I've also tried by using bootable floppy (win xp recovery disk), and its also refused to boot from the floppy.

Ok, I'll try to pull the HD out and connect it into this one.

Another question, will replacing the HD into a new one solve the unable to boot from CD/floppy problem?

Or my VAIO is dead and I must buy a new one?

Is the VAIO laptop very old? Perhaps you need a new CMOS battery. If the hard drive works without a hitch connected to another computer, I'd guess that you're having problems with the laptop's motherboard. If the hard drive is still flaky on another computer, it's definitely the hard drive, and the laptop's probably OK, although you're probably still going to have the problem with the BIOS.

Where can I check graphic card capabilities on notebooks?

I'm about to get a Dell Inspiron 1720. It has the Geforce 8600M GT 256MB video card with it. I know it's going to be able to do the CAD stuff I need for work (it's a Core2Duo 2.0GHZ, 2GB RAM). I just want to make sure the 8600M can play some decent games. I was looking at a Sager notebook with the 8600M GT 512MB card, but I can't pass on the Dell for $475.

Here.

AFAIK, Nvidia's M series aren't quite equal to their same-numbered desktop cousins. That said, I think the 8600M GT isn't exactly NVidia's top-of-the-line mobile chipset, but it's still a solid performer. You should be able to run most recent games at acceptable frame rates and resolutions, unless you want to play Crysis.

Edited December 22, 2007 by mikeszekely

[Chowser]

Here.

AFAIK, Nvidia's M series aren't quite equal to their same-numbered desktop cousins. That said, I think the 8600M GT isn't exactly NVidia's top-of-the-line mobile chipset, but it's still a solid performer. You should be able to run most recent games at acceptable frame rates and resolutions, unless you want to play Crysis.

thanks, I'll check it out.

Crysis is the exact reason I am looking to upgrade my desktop graphics card. Currently using a 256MB Geforce 7900GS and I can set it at medium settings. It looks great at medium settings, but I really want to see what High settings look like. It runs fine on my desktop right now.

I don't exactly plan on trying to run Crysis on a notebook. As long as I can do simple stuff like Oblivion, WoW (If I ever decide to start WoW), and maybe Gears of War for PC, I'll be happy with the 8600M GT. The main selling point for the notebook was for it to be able to do simple CAD drawings for crash scenes/crime scenes. It just doubles as a simple gaming PC.

I know the 8800 series is coming out for notebooks, but since my job is getting the notebooks for three of us, I can't really complain. The 1720 with the 8600GM is the only one of the three we're allowed to get that doesn't have integrated graphics (X3100).

[azrael]

Reposted from Hikuro another thread:

Back in october my girlfriend and I were talking and suddenly this message pops up, "I did this on photoshop, how does it look?" comes out as a ZIP file about 52 kb so I download itwithout thinking, and she vanished. I thought "Huh guess she had to restart her laptop again" so I go ahead and open it and clicked the main file that came out of the zip and it vanished, I thought "Huh, that's right I don't have photoshop I can't view it."

So as I waited for her to pop on, my messanger starts to mess up and I had to restart it. Soon enough she pops on and and I told her I got a virus, her response "What are you stupid? You shouldn't of downloaded it." "HOW WAS I SUPPOSE TO KNOW?! IT SENT A MESSAGE THAT WAS SO LIKE YOU SINCE YOU USE PHOTOSHOP SO MUCH!"

So every now and then, the program freaks out and sends the messages to everyone that's online on my friends list. Now my computer massively slows down and takes 3-6 hours to actually start running smoothly, and none of my virus software (which eventually I had to wipe out cause it was a piss poor purchase that didn't work) can detect it.

it looks like some sort of a copy of the picture(1)(2)(3)(4).zip worm I found but it doesn't have the exact same characteristics. I've contacted MSN and they said "Just download our Virus removal tool" which didn't even detect the virus.

I've gone thru Norton and McAffee and neither of those have picked it up....any suggestions?

[azrael]

Since it's been there for a couple months now, I'm tempted to say reformat your system.

Have you tried using a variety of anti-spyware programs? Have you looked up the documentation on how to removed the virus? Grifsoft makes a free version of their anti-virus and anti-spyware AVG software so I would suggest you install those and see if they detect it. Have you tried Trend Micro's anti-virus software? No one AV or AS program will catch everything, and you may need to use a variety of programs to get rid of it.

[David Hingtgen]

MSN/MS/Windows can't help for 99% of things, nor will most of the big-name big-buck anti-virus programs---they can PREVENT, but really suck at CURE. Google the virus's exact name and the name of any file you know, and any odd running programs/apps. Then start seeing on the various PC tech/help forums what everyone else who caught it had to do to cure it Seriously, if you really want to get rid of something, you're probably going to have to do it yourself and not rely on "corporate" solutions. Registry edits, nifty little free removal programs some helpful guy wrote tailored for that virus, etc.

PS--I recommend Avast!. Totally free with free constant updates, and caught things every other one missed, and didn't miss anything any other found.

[emajnthis]

you can d/l hijack this and post the report here, and then we can pick it apart to tell you what is malicious, this takes some time, and you may not be able to accomplish this task with your computer on the fritz. That being the case, start your computer in safe mode WITHOUT networking, just regular safe mode. Run Anti-Spyware programs like, Ad-Aware and Spybot Search & Destroy (if these aren't on your computer already, you can burn and run them directly from a CD), anti-virus does virtually nothing against spyware. After running these two programs and restarting your computer back into safe mode. Take a look at the processes running in task manager; for someone experienced they can usually pick out the one(s) that aren't normal and manually delete them in a command prompt. In this case, write down the ones you're unfamiliar with or look suspicious and go on another computer and research them in google. After you figured out which ones are malicious or replicate even after deletion, do a little extra research on the malicious executes specifically to figure out what will knock them out. I've found in about 90% of cases, ad-aware will take care of most replicating spyware/trojan threats. the last 10% normally have to be done manually, either through command console, setting the hard drive up as a data drive in another computer, or by using something like puppy linux (an OS that loads from CD and runs in RAM). It also may take a couple run throughs of spybot and ad-aware to completely catch everything; and if you're going to use either of these programs, ensure that they're fully up to date before being used or burned to a CD.

[Hikuro]

Reformatting is really a last resort, I dont even know how my pc will take it, I dont think I even reformated it before in the 3 uears ive had it.

However I did uninstall msn messenger and when I restarted something popped up on the end program, some sort of rundell321 or 122 but had .exe on it. I wonder what that was if its relovant at all?

I did a config and looked around prior to that and saw a number of prgrams I got no clue on, three in particular. 1 saying just R, another thats just random letters starting with K, and the last one was just blank, nothing there.

but since I restarted and the worm is still there...guess deleting messenger did squat.

[David Hingtgen]

A lot of those things will instantly "undelete" when you try to simply delete them---it's "too easy" to get rid of a virus that way.

Anyways---google! Every process, task, and file you don't recognize---google and find out what it is. Honestly, at a time when you have your PC "running perfectly"---write down every single thing it normally runs to operate. That way, you can easily check when something "odd" happens in the future--malicious or not.

PS--running Windows XP? Just in case things can't be fixed any other way, there's a little-known but super-useful type of re-install that will NOT destroy all your settings and files, but it's 99.999% as effective as doing a total wipe and formate of the entire hard drive when dealing with worms etc. I don't know of anything it can't fix, but it's a whole lot easier than actually re-installing windows/formatting the drive. ::reminds self to backup hard drive, it's been way too long, and the hard drive is too old to trust much longer and it was making a funny noise yesterday::

http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/XPrepairinstall.htm (it says OEM/restore CD's don't work, but my HP recovery disc did)

However, it will remove/revert to the most basic version of XP the PC had when XP was first installed. Suggest getting SP1 and SP2 and all the critical updates you can on a disc so that you can immediately reinstall them before you even think about having the PC hooked up to the web again. And activiate XP's firewall. Your PC will be "naked" once you do this, and very susceptible to getting something again as while you will have lost whatever nasty thing you had, you will have also lost all the virus protection updates etc, and some 2002-era thing could be floating around. Unless you can quickly put it all back on WITHOUT going to microsoft.com to download it.

Your PC may be new enough that its "virgin" state of XP already has SP2. But you'd still be missing the updates.

[Valkyrie addict]

how good is an AMD 690V motherboard for overclocking?? I'm thinking of overclocking a AMD Athlon 4000+ in it

any suggestion on what should I do/need given it's not a high end motherboard?

[azrael]

Reformatting is really a last resort, I dont even know how my pc will take it, I dont think I even reformated it before in the 3 uears ive had it.

However I did uninstall msn messenger and when I restarted something popped up on the end program, some sort of rundell321 or 122 but had .exe on it. I wonder what that was if its relovant at all?

I did a config and looked around prior to that and saw a number of prgrams I got no clue on, three in particular. 1 saying just R, another thats just random letters starting with K, and the last one was just blank, nothing there.

but since I restarted and the worm is still there...guess deleting messenger did squat.

You should disable System Restore as well. This will prevent most viruses from coming back after a reboot after you delete it.

how good is an AMD 690V motherboard for overclocking?? I'm thinking of overclocking a AMD Athlon 4000+ in it

any suggestion on what should I do/need given it's not a high end motherboard?

what are you planning on using it for? Gaming or as a DVR? Most reviews I've seen don't stress overclocking since the board is designed to be a low-end motherboard for simple things or to serve as a DVR/home theater system.

[Valkyrie addict]

yeah... i saw some figures too that the most you could get really forcing it on that motherboard is up to 2.6GHz, which isn't much since hardcore overclockers can take it up to 3.0GHz

oh well, might as well just get an Athlon 5600 X2 2.8GHz...

trying to built a cheap regular system for regular gaming...

Edited December 24, 2007 by Valkyrie addict

[DJ Loe Kee]

i guess this is the right section 'cause i see blu-ray vs. hd-dvd, ps3 and xbox360 threads in this section.

so who else has a region free dvd player?

i started out with a daewoo (it was cheap) but it quit playin' EVERY disc (dvd and cd) so now i have a jvc xv-n330. my player has been hacked, i mean modded so that it plays region 1-8 and both ntsc/pal dvd's.

http://cnet.nytimes.com/video-players-and-...7-31880982.html

http://reviews.cnet.com/video-players-and-...7-31880982.html

i got my daewoo when the ring came out 'cause my friend from japan told me that the ring was a japanese movie. so i wanted to see the original too after i saw the ring in theaters ('cause the original ALWAYS owns remakes. no need to turn this into a "robotech suxs macross ftw" thread). the movie that i have is region lock for u.k/europe (i can't remember if u.k is a different region from europe or if that's the case with japan and the rest of asia).

so now i own

ringu (two versions, i got the u.s. dreamworks sub release 'cause the u.k. tartan's subs suxs)

ringu 2 (not raesen, the originally sequel)

ringu zero

my wife is gangster

shadowless sword

never lose

she's on duty (yesasia.com gave me this one for free 'cause i bought the above 3 movies at the same time)

(and sex is zero on vcd with no subs =[)

and this is on the to buy list

sdf macross

macross: dyrl

the duelist

my wife is gangster 2 and 3

city of violence

sex is zero

nowhere to hide

soo

sword in the moon

running wild

infernal affairs 1, 2 & 3

hard boiled

audition

shutter

legend of speed

house of flying daggers

hero

crouching tiger hidden dragon

full contact

my anime is fansubs and dvd-rips so i don't have to worry about the region lock... and the sdf macross dvd set that i want is region 1 anyways. the rest of the macross series that i want is region free (i have the fansubs and dvd-rips but i may get the real dvd's anyways).

it looks like i will have to get a region free blu-ray player some day 'cause the ps3 is region free ONLY for its ps3 games (this is good for japanese games tho', no need to buy a modchip). no need to buy it yet until gran turismo 5 comes out (it better not sux or i'll wait for gt6).

everybody here likes anime, so i know that has to be a couple of ppl who like foreign movies and tv shows (yes, i know about crunchyroll.com, youku.com and other sites like that).

[mikeszekely]

I never intentionally bought a region-free DVD player. But it turns out that I was able to use codes to reset the region on both of my Philips DVD players to "0".

[EXO]

Yeah Philips are awesome. Region 0 plus it plays windows files so you can enjoy downloaded animes. Kinda defeats the purpose since I now have my TV connected straight to my PC... nevertheless, a very cool feature and cheap!

Philips DVP5960. Has HDMI and upconverts.

[Necron_99]

Can anyone point me to some good anti-spyware software? I am running norton and spybot and they both suck.

My computer has been REALLY slow lately.

[kensei]

Can anyone point me to some good anti-spyware software? I am running norton and spybot and they both suck.

My computer has been REALLY slow lately.

I use a combination of Windows Defender (free), AVG Free, Ad-Aware and also Zonealarm for prevention of future intrusions.

[David Hingtgen]

Anti-virus: Avast!

Anti-spy: AVG

Seriously, you can't beat Avast IMHO. Totally free even for continuous automatic updates (several times a day sometimes) and about the least resource-hogging there is, and catches things 5 other "top name" ones don't.

[mikeszekely]

Yeah Philips are awesome. Region 0 plus it plays windows files so you can enjoy downloaded animes. Kinda defeats the purpose since I now have my TV connected straight to my PC... nevertheless, a very cool feature and cheap!

Philips DVP5960. Has HDMI and upconverts.

That's actually the DVD player I have in my living room. It's played everything I've thrown at it, it's picked up on .srt subtitle files, and it's never stuttered or had audio/video syncing issues. I like it fine, but I'm actually going to replace it with an HTPC. I have a DVP3960 in the bedroom, too, but it's honestly not as good. There's not much, but I've had a few Divx discs that played fine in the 5960 that the 3960 didn't like.

[David Hingtgen]

PS--want to REALLY spy-proof your system? Stop using default MSIE Java and download Sun's. Best thing I ever did, spy-ware wise. Also fiddle with java/active permissions and restrict most everything. It'll be annoying for a few weeks, until you've manually approved every website you frequent, but after that, you'll be pretty safe (and it'll stop a lot of pop-ups, too)

[kensei]

To speed things up afterwards, I recommend also downloading CCleaner and then running Augloics Diskdefrag. YOu'll find much improvement.

[DJ Loe Kee]

I never intentionally bought a region-free DVD player. But it turns out that I was able to use codes to reset the region on both of my Philips DVD players to "0".

i tried to make my samsung dvd player region free but the codes on the net didn't work. my gameshark wouldn't play my u.k. dvd's of ringu 'cause i needed a ntsc/pal converter. but it think gameshark might work for my new korean dvds. i never tried the firmware/software to make my pc's dvd burner region free 'cause i didn't want to break my dvd burner.

[kensei]

Here's an interesting article on firewall testing.

http://www.matousec.com/projects/windows-p...sts-results.php

Edited December 29, 2007 by azrael
You forgot the "p"

[Ishimaru]

Can anyone point me to some good anti-spyware software? I am running norton and spybot and they both suck.

My computer has been REALLY slow lately.

Avast and Spybot is the best combination of spyware and virus protection. They don't take up a lot of system resources.

Norton to me on my first try annoyed the hell out of me when it kept popping up every 5 seconds.

Since then I never had a problem.

Also try and defragg your computer, do a disk cleanup, etc.

If all goes wrong try doing a XP repair install.

[mikeszekely]

How does the whole NTSC vs. PAL thing affect HDTVs? I'd guess the TV would upscale either resolution to its own native resolution, but aren't there still differences in frame rate and refresh rate?

[Mr March]

Does anyone know anything about the HDMI (High Definition Multimedia Interface) port and cable setup for a DVD player and TV? My parents have a Sony Bravia television and just purchased a DVD player on sale, both of which support this HDMI standard. I've educated myself about the nature of HDMI, but my question is whether or not there is anything to be gained purchasing an HDMI cable to hook up a standard definition DVD player to an LCD television.

I've setup the coaxial cables for their player and it works fine, but can the setup acheive better picture and sound quality through an HDMI cable? Anyone know?

[Necron_99]

Anti-virus: Avast!

Anti-spy: AVG

Seriously, you can't beat Avast IMHO. Totally free even for continuous automatic updates (several times a day sometimes) and about the least resource-hogging there is, and catches things 5 other "top name" ones don't.

That AVG worked great. Thanks.

I'm going to get Avast! as soon as I finish writing this

Avast and Spybot is the best combination of spyware and virus protection. They don't take up a lot of system resources.

Norton to me on my first try annoyed the hell out of me when it kept popping up every 5 seconds.

Since then I never had a problem.

Also try and defragg your computer, do a disk cleanup, etc.

If all goes wrong try doing a XP repair install.

That's up next. Thanks for the recommendations everyone!

[VT 1010]

Does anyone know anything about the HDMI (High Definition Multimedia Interface) port and cable setup for a DVD player and TV? My parents have a Sony Bravia television and just purchased a DVD player on sale, both of which support this HDMI standard. I've educated myself about the nature of HDMI, but my question is whether or not there is anything to be gained purchasing an HDMI cable to hook up a standard definition DVD player to an LCD television.

I've setup the coaxial cables for their player and it works fine, but can the setup acheive better picture and sound quality through an HDMI cable? Anyone know?

HDMI is digital (unlike component, s-video, composite, and RF, which are analog). Because of this, it is less susceptible to interference (less is the key word. interference can still be an issue). It can also send an audio signal with the video through one cable to the display or receiver. You can upscale commercial DVDs too, if you player supports it. Some HDTVs won't accept a 1080p signal, unless it's transmitted via HDMI, as well.

How does the whole NTSC vs. PAL thing affect HDTVs? I'd guess the TV would upscale either resolution to its own native resolution, but aren't there still differences in frame rate and refresh rate?

Some HDTVs will accept and display a PAL signal. Some will not. It depends on the display.

[DJ Loe Kee]

How does the whole NTSC vs. PAL thing affect HDTVs? I'd guess the TV would upscale either resolution to its own native resolution, but aren't there still differences in frame rate and refresh rate?

i can found two forums that says that ntsc and pal were thrown out for hdtv and it's now standardized.

Are Blu-ray and HD-DVD going to have region coding like regular DVDs? Also will there be one picture format or NTSC and PAL again?

As for region coding...

Yes for Blu-ray,

No for HD-DVD.

DTV is a world standard! It was created to replace the PAL and NTSC systems. So, no you don't have to worry about that anymore (although broadcast formats vary from region to region).

DTV: Formats...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_television#Formats

Ced

http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/369562

This is a complete noob question, but here it goes anyway...

Since I am obviously using a digital TV to view high-def content, would it possible with current HD DVD hardware to view a PAL HD DVD (25p/50i) in the US? I know this wasn't possible with DVD, but considering that HD DVD requires a digital HDTV to view content, is it possible to set the player to output PAL and then have my TV receive PAL signal? Additionally, would the 360 convert the PAL video stream into NTSC from the add-on?

I'm asking this only because I'd like to have the option to buy HD DVDs from Europe if they aren't released here (or in Japan, which is NTSC anyway)

It would have been nice if they had taken HDTV as an opportunity to standardize the frame rates around the world, since it's not analog anymore.

There is no PAL or NTSC in HD... it all falls under the AASC. The format WAS standardized... and that is how HD DVDs are region free. They don't have to worry about discs that are 'incompatable' with other players, because they have to be AASC compliant... and so do the machines.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm 99.99% sure that this is correct.

JU1CYFRU1T is right - PAL/NTSC is not a consideration with HD.

http://forums.highdefdigest.com/showthread.php?t=1372

[kensei]

I'm looking on getting an ultra cool system for home, and converting my Tablet PC into a work-only machine. Graphics performance is a major factor for me when playing games like Battlefield 2 or 2142, Supreme Commander and the likes. I heard of this thing where you can put two identical cards together (most notably of NVIDIA origin), and you got something called SLI mode where the two cards split the workload, which can in theory lead to better performance right? My friend has the 8800GTS, and it's hell sweet. I noticed two caveats when doing this though and I really wonder how it is going to affect my system.

1. I'll have to get one of NVIDIAs special motherboards. Is this still true or is there a motherboard of Intel chipset? The reason for this is that I'm looking to get a Core 2 Duo or even a Quad Core Extreme Config, and I really wanted an Intel motherboard to get a Santa Rosa Configuration, cause they work so well together. I've seen it on newer Tablet PCs such as the Fujitsu and Toshiba M700s, and they are sweet, I'm so amazed with their PCMark05 scores.

2. Windows cannot dual screen with two cards in SLI mode. Is this still a factor? When I asked the consensus was still uncertain. I like to work with two screens.

3. I heard that some apps actually perform WORSE with two cards in SLI. Would this be true for the types of games I play?

[mikeszekely]

I'm looking on getting an ultra cool system for home, and converting my Tablet PC into a work-only machine. Graphics performance is a major factor for me when playing games like Battlefield 2 or 2142, Supreme Commander and the likes. I heard of this thing where you can put two identical cards together (most notably of NVIDIA origin), and you got something called SLI mode where the two cards split the workload, which can in theory lead to better performance right? My friend has the 8800GTS, and it's hell sweet. I noticed two caveats when doing this though and I really wonder how it is going to affect my system.

1. I'll have to get one of NVIDIAs special motherboards. Is this still true or is there a motherboard of Intel chipset? The reason for this is that I'm looking to get a Core 2 Duo or even a Quad Core Extreme Config, and I really wanted an Intel motherboard to get a Santa Rosa Configuration, cause they work so well together. I've seen it on newer Tablet PCs such as the Fujitsu and Toshiba M700s, and they are sweet, I'm so amazed with their PCMark05 scores.

2. Windows cannot dual screen with two cards in SLI mode. Is this still a factor? When I asked the consensus was still uncertain. I like to work with two screens.

3. I heard that some apps actually perform WORSE with two cards in SLI. Would this be true for the types of games I play?

1. You will need an SLI compatible motherboard, but AFAIK, you can get Intel or AMD motherboards that are SLI compatible. Nvidia makes graphics chipsets, after all, not CPUs. The Core 2 Duo line is an excellent line, but the Core 2 Extreme and the Quad Extreme aren't really worth the price tag, IMHO.

2.) Windows cannot do dual screens with two cards in SLI mode, but you can have two cards WITHOUT them in SLI mode. That'll let you run two displays fine.

3.) Sorry, I don't know enough to answer your last question.

[David Hingtgen]

If I wanted to build a new PC, what's the best way to get started? As in, a list of EVERYTHING that's needed, as well as info on how to set up a PC from scratch (as in, install bios and OS on a brand-new motherboard and hard drive).

Basic goal: new PC for Vista, and *light* gaming, if that. NOTHING cutting edge or expensive--goal is to be cheap, not run Crysis at max detail and res. But better than current old PC. Under a grand would be nice. 1500 absolute limit (anything over 1200 is really pushing it). Being quiet is a big plus, but it doesn't need to be any of the fancy, weird super-quiet techniques like suspended drives and fanless liquid-cooled heatsinks. However, I'd like it to be VERY upgradeable over many years, so having the best and latest possible bridges/adapters/standards etc is probably the biggest consideration of all. I do not want to be 'stuck' with having limited upgrades because the CPU socket, grahpics card slot type or something is at the end of its life cycle. I think in summary, I'd want a motherboard that has all the latest possible sockets and standards and bridges and able to accept all the latest stuff for as many years as possible, but with only "average" components tossed in to start with. Then, in a couple years, to upgrade it with what is NOW top of the line, but in 2010 will be cheap.

(this will not happen for another year or so probably, but I ask this question for both my brother and I to start watching stuff, as we both plan to build our first PC to replace our current ones)

PS---will be needing full versions of Vista (unless an SP3 for XP comes out), not upgrades. Can you get full versions at OEM price at all? Though, I did see SP2 is supposed to be supported until like 2014. May just go with buying a full version of SP2--is there really any reason to get Vista, besides it being "new"? I still don't see anyone praising it really.

[Fatalist]

If I wanted to build a new PC, what's the best way to get started? As in, a list of EVERYTHING that's needed, as well as info on how to set up a PC from scratch (as in, install bios and OS on a brand-new motherboard and hard drive).

Basic goal: new PC for Vista, and *light* gaming, if that. NOTHING cutting edge or expensive--goal is to be cheap, not run Crysis at max detail and res. But better than current old PC. Under a grand would be nice. 1500 absolute limit (anything over 1200 is really pushing it). Being quiet is a big plus, but it doesn't need to be any of the fancy, weird super-quiet techniques like suspended drives and fanless liquid-cooled heatsinks. However, I'd like it to be VERY upgradeable over many years, so having the best and latest possible bridges/adapters/standards etc is probably the biggest consideration of all. I do not want to be 'stuck' with having limited upgrades because the CPU socket, grahpics card slot type or something is at the end of its life cycle. I think in summary, I'd want a motherboard that has all the latest possible sockets and standards and bridges and able to accept all the latest stuff for as many years as possible, but with only "average" components tossed in to start with. Then, in a couple years, to upgrade it with what is NOW top of the line, but in 2010 will be cheap.

(this will not happen for another year or so probably, but I ask this question for both my brother and I to start watching stuff, as we both plan to build our first PC to replace our current ones)

PS---will be needing full versions of Vista (unless an SP3 for XP comes out), not upgrades. Can you get full versions at OEM price at all? Though, I did see SP2 is supposed to be supported until like 2014. May just go with buying a full version of SP2--is there really any reason to get Vista, besides it being "new"? I still don't see anyone praising it really.

Check Sharky Extreme They usually do various system builds at different budget points. Granted its for gaming, but the Low and Mid range are light on the graphics as well as wallet. They usually do the buildup where they buy EVERYTHING new. And they also do it where you can choose AMD or Intel based systems. You can pretty much use their guides to pick and choose what you want, and it will deffinately come out UNDER what they budgeted. So give them a try. Their most recent buildup was the extreme gaming, so you can ignore that. But dig around for the mid and low end.

As far as OS is concerned, when I built my XP system about 4 years ago, all I did was pop in my XP disc, and as soon as I turned the machine on, it formated and installed automatically. Everything was new on the rig, including hard drive. I'm sure Vista would be the same way.

Hope this helps.

[VF-19]

If I wanted to build a new PC, what's the best way to get started? As in, a list of EVERYTHING that's needed, as well as info on how to set up a PC from scratch (as in, install bios and OS on a brand-new motherboard and hard drive).

Here's what you need to get started:

Manditory

Case

Motherboard

CPU

Video Card

Hard Drive

RAM

Cables

Power Supply

Optical Drives (CD/DVD, Rewriteable DVD, etc)

Tools (Screw Driver, clippers, small wrench, plastic tweezers)

Plastic Ties (cable management!)

Cooling solution for CPU (aka Fan/heatsink)

Optional

Sound Card

Second Video Card (SLI or Crossfire)

Assembling computers is actually very easy. It's litterally like lego. Almost Everything is keyed to go in only one way (with a few exceptions), and with practice, you can have the whole computer assembled in about 1 hour.

I built a computer for my mother a few months back, and I don't think it excceeded the $500 mark. Mind you it was pretty bare bones, but it's all she needed.

If you can recycle parts from your old computer, it'll be about $1000 to build your own. Since you're looking to build from scratch, look more at $900-1200, depending on your final configuration. Probably what'll be the most expensive part in the computer is going to be the videocard, so be prepared to pay for it.

[azrael]

Basic goal: new PC for Vista, and *light* gaming, if that. NOTHING cutting edge or expensive--goal is to be cheap, not run Crysis at max detail and res. But better than current old PC. Under a grand would be nice. 1500 absolute limit (anything over 1200 is really pushing it). Being quiet is a big plus, but it doesn't need to be any of the fancy, weird super-quiet techniques like suspended drives and fanless liquid-cooled heatsinks. However, I'd like it to be VERY upgradeable over many years, so having the best and latest possible bridges/adapters/standards etc is probably the biggest consideration of all. I do not want to be 'stuck' with having limited upgrades because the CPU socket, grahpics card slot type or something is at the end of its life cycle. I think in summary, I'd want a motherboard that has all the latest possible sockets and standards and bridges and able to accept all the latest stuff for as many years as possible, but with only "average" components tossed in to start with. Then, in a couple years, to upgrade it with what is NOW top of the line, but in 2010 will be cheap.

Unfortunately, you're gonna hit the end-of-life for some part at some point so, let's see what I can do.

Edit:

COOLER MASTER Centurion 5 CAC-T05-UW Black Aluminum Bezel , SECC Chassis ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail

EVGA 256-P2-N751-TR GeForce 8600GT 256MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 SLI Supported Video Card - Retail

Rosewill RP600V2-S-SL 600W SLI Ready-ATX12V V2.01 Power Supply - Retail

Intel Core 2 Duo E6550 Conroe 2.33GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80557E6550 - Retail

GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3L LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX All Solid Capacitor Intel Motherboard - Retail

G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-6400CL5D-2GBNQ - Retail

Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3250410AS 250GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM

LITE-ON 20X DVD±R DVD Burner Black IDE Model DH-20A4P-04 - OEM

ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7 Pro 92mm CPU Cooler - Retail

total (at currently listed prices) = $639.91 USD (no shipping or tax)

Vista OEM will add about $100-$150 depending on which version you get. The case should come with fans so there's no need to get additional fans. The E6550 is a deal compared to the E6420 or lower end models. At $169 for a 2.33 GHz CPU, I would say it's hard to beat. Crysis puts any video card to shame, but a 8600GT is more than enough for light-gaming.