The Official Yamato Price Gouging Rant Thread

[eugimon]

well, quality and price are not always linked... many high end products are notorious for having poor build quality... english cars come to mind. I'm not saying this excuses yamato, my big grief is that their quality has gone in reverse since the 1/48 VF-1 was first introduced.

And again... it doesn't matter what the "actual" costs are, the price set by the manufacturer is based on what they think the market can bear, not on some math formula based on materials and labor. Stuff like sunglass have very very very low materials costs but have HUGE retail mark ups. why? because people are willing to pay the cost and the companies are willing to let us.

[GDomino]

Knowing how much a product costs to be manufactured is misleading at best. The $2 USD product mentioned in my previous post cost something like $0.98 CAD in materials, and $1.50 to 1.85 in labor, overhead, and etc..

Anyhow... as for the above figures, it was based on imports costing double the domestic retail cost ($200/2 = $100. Fairly similar to the $120 USD paid in HK - also an import into that country. )

The $200 USD is obviously not issued by Yamato - given that it retails for far less in HK, and Japan doesn't use the USD as it's currency.

All of the other questions were answered in my previous post. However, just to clarify - that $12.50* isn't to any customer. It's to a wholesaler who is buying somewhere in the ballpark of 5,000 to 10,000 (probably more) units. Distributors, paying at least double the wholesale cost of $12.50, would still be purchasing hundreds, if not thousands of units.

It's all to do with the economy of scale, etc., my friend.

*Edit: the $12.50 is an estimation based on similar experiences. It may not be accurate, and it is probably higher. The point of the figure is to highlight the small sum that Yamato actually receives, in proportion to the total amount spent on the product.

Daaamn, That's even more generous than I thought!!! Like I said in a previous post, even if Yamato makes pennies, multiply that by thousands and it becomes substantial.

To make the math even easier, let's assume that Yamato made $ 10 USD for each 1/60 YF-19 (even more generous than Sketchley's estimation above of $12.50 which "could be more") multiplied by about 7500 units made in this production run (again generous according to toyaddict's estimated prod run of possibly 15-20K), that is $75000 that Yamato made from this YF-19 run alone.(I know the the items still have to be sold to customers instead of taking up floor/shelf space). And let's assume that they are now making $5 (generous estimation) for a cheaper 1/48 VF-1 variant multiplied by 2000 (less projected sales) units times possible 5 variant rereleases the end of last year going into this year (again being generous). That's $125,000 from these alone. This is to demonstrate the possible total profits from these "generous numbers", which doesn't include other releases such as the VF-0 variants, Garland, and others that may come. SO it could be a lot more.

That's USD $125,000 at best they could possibly make this year. By all means it's not the Microsoft busting profit margins, but it isn't miniscule also.

You guys seem to forget about the real issue here, they still had major SNAFUs in which the big loser here is still the consumer that got that subpar toy that broke or could break (and maybe some of the involved retailers are losers too for returned/replaced items). I am perplexed at people saying "just don't buy the damn toy." Well, it's kind of too late for that if you paid and received a broken product! And Yamato's basic answer is, "we'll be making improvements on the next run - better luck on your next purchase, you may get a perfect product next time, we hope to have your business still, chump!" Oh and lets not forget that most of the middlemen aren't accountable (and why should they care, they got their money and some) because by common law, the people held responsible will be the manufacturing company who made a defective product. It's not like I can call the Better Business Bureau or call my Congressman to file a complaint about a Japanese company that gave me a broken toy. Where can I really ask to be compensated for a "luxury toy"? Really....

[Godzilla]

As long as Gozilla dosnt start collecting girls like he does Vf`s he should be o.k

I mean a basement full of Yamato products is one thing but a bunch of girls would take up ten times as much room and would eat him out of house and home.

You guys are a riot.

[eugimon]

Daaamn, That's even more generous than I thought!!! Like I said in a previous post, even if Yamato makes pennies, multiply that by thousands and it becomes substantial.

To make the math even easier, let's assume that Yamato made $ 10 USD for each 1/60 YF-19 (even more generous than Sketchley's estimation above of $12.50 which "could be more") multiplied by about 7500 units made in this production run (again generous according to toyaddict's estimated prod run of possibly 15-20K), that is $75000 that Yamato made from this YF-19 run alone.(I know the the items still have to be sold to customers instead of taking up floor/shelf space). And let's assume that they are now making $5 (generous estimation) for a cheaper 1/48 VF-1 variant multiplied by 2000 (less projected sales) units times possible 5 variant rereleases the end of last year going into this year (again being generous). That's $125,000 from these alone. This is to demonstrate the possible total profits from these "generous numbers", which doesn't include other releases such as the VF-0 variants, Garland, and others that may come. SO it could be a lot more.

That's USD $125,000 at best they could possibly make this year. By all means it's not the Microsoft busting profit margins, but it isn't miniscule also.

You guys seem to forget about the real issue here, they still had major SNAFUs in which the big loser here is still the consumer that got that subpar toy that broke or could break (and maybe some of the involved retailers are losers too for returned/replaced items). I am perplexed at people saying "just don't buy the damn toy." Well, it's kind of too late for that if you paid and received a broken product! And Yamato's basic answer is, "we'll be making improvements on the next run - better luck on your next purchase, you may get a perfect product next time, we hope to have your business still, chump!" Oh and lets not forget that most of the middlemen aren't accountable (and why should they care, they got their money and some) because by common law, the people held responsible will be the manufacturing company who made a defective product. It's not like I can call the Better Business Bureau or call my Congressman to file a complaint about a Japanese company that gave me a broken toy. Where can I really ask to be compensated for a "luxury toy"? Really....

The topic of this thread is Yamato Price Gouging Rant... not, I bougth a yamato toy and it broke on me. These are DIFFERENT topics. There are already threads dedicated to people who already bought a yamato product only to have it break on them. Check out my avatar, I am not some yamato sympathizer.. every post I make serves partially as a warning to people considering buying a Vf-0. What we are debating here is yamato is yamato price point.

[Ultra Leader]

Knowing how much a product costs to be manufactured is misleading at best. The $2 USD product mentioned in my previous post cost something like $0.98 CAD in materials, and $1.50 to 1.85 in labor, overhead, and etc..

Anyhow... as for the above figures, it was based on imports costing double the domestic retail cost ($200/2 = $100. Fairly similar to the $120 USD paid in HK - also an import into that country. )

The $200 USD is obviously not issued by Yamato - given that it retails for far less in HK, and Japan doesn't use the USD as it's currency.

All of the other questions were answered in my previous post. However, just to clarify - that $12.50* isn't to any customer. It's to a wholesaler who is buying somewhere in the ballpark of 5,000 to 10,000 (probably more) units. Distributors, paying at least double the wholesale cost of $12.50, would still be purchasing hundreds, if not thousands of units.

It's all to do with the economy of scale, etc., my friend.

*Edit: the $12.50 is an estimation based on similar experiences. It may not be accurate, and it is probably higher. The point of the figure is to highlight the small sum that Yamato actually receives, in proportion to the total amount spent on the product.

*Grin* I think I'm somewhat aware that the Japanese use the Yen as their currency. Perhaps I should have said the $200 USD equivalent. Hmm so it's not issued by Yamato? Wonder what they're selling it for. So how much is it in Hong Kong? (Whatever this particular product is.) If it's not Yamato that's set the $200 USD equivalent price tag then it's either the Distributor or the Retailer. Greedy fiends!

Yamato produces 5,000 to 10,000 units of one particular product? This doesn't sound like a small time business operation at all...I was under the impression that Yamato had a small garage somewhere with a handful of die hard Macross fans latheing out imperfect Macross toys!

I don't know what you boys are thinking...it's definitely price gouging. $200 USD for a toy...I could purchase a gorgeous diamond with that much...albiet a small one but still gorgeous!

If it's not Yamato, it's definitely someone trying to milk you guys...it'd certainly be alot cheaper if Yamato sold direct to public. ...then there's that whole 'HG' thing people keep mentioning about.

[Dampiel]

That's USD $125,000 at best they could possibly make this year. By all means it's not the Microsoft busting profit margins, but it isn't miniscule also.

Umm when I worked retail we would pull in almost double that on Black Friday.Soo really that isn't a whole lot of money. Not trying to start nothing just saying.

[SpaceCowboy]

The topic of this thread is Yamato Price Gouging Rant... not, I bougth a yamato toy and it broke on me. These are DIFFERENT topics. There are already threads dedicated to people who already bought a yamato product only to have it break on them. Check out my avatar, I am not some yamato sympathizer.. every post I make serves partially as a warning to people considering buying a Vf-0. What we are debating here is yamato is yamato price point.

Good point. To address the topic, no I don't think Yamato is price gouging. None of us NEED Yamato toys. If we don't like it, we don't have to buy it. Supply and Demand. Yamato knows there is a significant group of people that will pay hundreds of dollars for Macross related toys, regardless of quality. If that market did not exist, it would not longer be viable for Yamato to continue producing these toys. They would either have to find some way to make them cheaper or improve the quality to the point that more consumers would be willing to pay the expensive prices they set.

As it is, with the crappy QC, they can still set the prices high, since there are enough fans to sustain such a price. That isn't price gouging. That is simple supply and demand. I really don't care if they spent a couple of bucks and priced the things at $1000 a pop. Good for them. I won't pay that much, but if they can sustain that, then they've found themselves a great business where they will make a lot of money.

[Agent-GHQ]

judging by the amount of 1/48s you have, I refuse to believe you are dating a girl.

j/k

Woah.....G-man your dating? What happen to the one you were with bro? And how the heck do you managed to find time from your long working hours and traveling from country to country?

[toysaddict]

That's USD $125,000 at best they could possibly make this year. By all means it's not the Microsoft busting profit margins, but it isn't miniscule also.

You're pretty funny to think that you think $125,000 is enough to run a business for one product line. They probably spent close to that to develope the model not inclduing the manufacturing run. They would of been out of business a long long time ago if that was the case. It takes a small group of poeple to run a buisness like Yamato and you can bet that if that's all they made you"re not going to be seeing macross yamato for long. You're too funny!

Edited February 19, 2007 by toysaddict

[toysaddict]

Yamato produces 5,000 to 10,000 units of one particular product? This doesn't sound like a small time business operation at all...I was under the impression that Yamato had a small garage somewhere with a handful of die hard Macross fans latheing out imperfect Macross toys!

5000K to 10000K is a very small production run for a product. Chinese Factory won't even start machines to produce a product unless they have 5K units minium. I'll give you a example...McFarlane Toys Military Series has a prodcution run of 500K to a million. I know this first hand b/c I seen their inventory list of products they can't sell it's in the the high 6 figures and that's only this year. 10K is a really really small number. I personaly bought toys to re-sell in the 10K units and that's just me it doesn't even account for the numerous retailers out there. Yamato Macross has a tiny production run that's why the item is priced so high along with other factors of course raw material, transportation cost , employees etc etc

Edited February 19, 2007 by toysaddict

[sketchley]

Yes, good points everyone. In the manufacturing company I worked at before, we purchased labels. The funny thing is that if we ordered anywhere from 1 to 4,999 labels, it would cost almost the same as if we purchased 5,000 to 10,000 labels.

There are minimum production points - my interpretation is that Yamato is having someone manufacture at, or slightly above that point. Even then, small print runs (anything less than 100,000 (100k) is considered small time) will have a higher cost per unit.

In a way, it's not price gouging, but simply the nature of manufacturing - complex model = expensive R&D + expensive manufacturing = big bucks, even before you tack on company operating overhead, and a small profit margin.

Of course, given that these things have a group of hardcore collectors who are willing to part with large amounts of money for them, means that Yamato, and EVERYONE else will add a larger profit margin. If anything, the retailer that you purchased from gets the largest amount of profit per unit, however, because Yamato produces so many, despite getting the smallest percentage of the profit per unit, they get the largest total profit.

Simply because the get the largest total profit for the entire production run, they get the blame, when any price gouging blame should probably be placed on the retailer that added an extra 5 to 10% because the item is a premium good, and some fans are willing to pay that extra amount.

Edited February 19, 2007 by sketchley

[Sebastian]

G-Man Would be Graham. And he is Married.

Godzila is in love with toys and computer thingies, there is no space or time for womans and that is why he dont like hearing all this MW members who like to cry, complain and argue like girls.

QUOTE(LL Cool VF1J @ Feb 18 2007, 03:42 AM)

judging by the amount of 1/48s you have, I refuse to believe you are dating a girl.

j/k

Woah.....G-man your dating? What happen to the one you were with bro? And how the heck do you managed to find time from your long working hours and traveling from country to country?

Edited February 19, 2007 by Sebastian

[Agent-GHQ]

That's who I was reffering to from LL Cool as he quoted regarding Godzilla. Anyhow, yeah we all love our toys and computer gadgets and stuff but there has to be time for the primal instinct too. It needs a little action too!

And back to the topic, I personally feel that the price could be a bit better like around $100 for the 1/48 series. As for the 1/60 series, the retail prices are up the roof. If that's the way its gonna be, then at least make the toys free of gripes.

[Godzilla]

G-Man Would be Graham. And he is Married.

Godzila is in love with toys and computer thingies, there is no space or time for womans and that is why he dont like hearing all this MW members who like to cry, complain and argue like girls.

G-man = Graham

Godzilla, Zilla, God (ok maybe a stretch ) = Greg (me)

Keyword you seem to all miss is TRYING to date this girl. Have I been successful? The way everything is going from my work to my posting on these threads, probably not .

Still I dont see the point of this thread. So you rant about the prices. It lead to finger pointing from Yamato to the dealers to the conspiracy that it was corporate greed to blame it on >Exo< (j/k >Exo<). I mean I tried to set everyone up from Jason, then he was telling me stories about ppl dictating this that and wanting the perfect damn box for MISB to some ppl playing between other dealers and some ppl wigging out of their orders (not mentioning names). And some ppl complained about his latter prices for a little too high. This is fustrating as I have seen both sides of the coin: Some dealers gouge us and some of us collectors seems to be too demanding for something so above and beyond perfect that a little scratch on box of yammie was something to cry foul about. I know some ppl would not be so happy but I didnt expect to see a mob that was so upset that they were ready to get the torches and pitchforks and start hanging anyone who was against them whether it was dealers, yamato "defenders", and yamato execs. (You can hang >Exo< j/k )

I guess to keep this thread on track, maybe we need to answer some questions rather than openly say we are being gouged, let's gripe. Maybe we should try this approach: My question to everyone, why do a preorder? If you feel the price is to high, then wait for the prices to dip. I have seen some yammies prices dip. Is there a mentality they this will be a LV1 syndrome if you do not preorder? LV1 mentality means ppl will miss the boat where they didnt preorder and the prices went up to buy later? Better question would be how much should you feel you should pay for the yammies? I mean reasonble pricing not "I'll buy that for a $1" or anything being obnoxiously low. Just a thought here...

Edited February 19, 2007 by Godzilla

[myk]

People pre-order because we're in an instant gratification society. If I can't have it now, I'll have it as soon as it comes out, price and other issues be damned. Ultimately things cost what they're going to cost. Like my coach used to say, if you can't play ball then get off the damn field...

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Just for the record I feel the FP + fold is high. I don't really have any suggestions on what I think it would be worth. But I will eventually buy them and if the reviews are positive and there are no quality issues..I won't complain.

I've always been of the belief that the buyer determines the price based on whether he forks over the money or not. If the seller can get as high as he can off the buyer then you can't really complain that the seller isn't doing good business or you are being ripped, since you paid up. You tend to feel ripped if you know others got a better deal and want to be even with others. But what you don't know can't hurt you. If the majority of fans fork over money that tells the maker: this is worth that amount. If fans do decide this is out of the price range,...the items are overstocked, then eventually they may get a better deal with time. Some people are more patient than others. Maybe that is the lesson to be learned: money means less to you if you are loaded with it. So maybe paying the high cost is "worth it" to that person who is ok with it. But not ok to those who are used to a lower price closer to the VF-1 FP. You'll get so many different answers that the question becomes a little pointless.

I feel the VF-1 FP based on size, gimmicks, detail, etc were pretty good. (maybe that is due partly because there is lots of lineart for them and they are just generally a chunky object in the anime?) I don't really know much about the fold booster though, to make an informed decision (we get drip-fed info and teased) so I am playing wait and see as I usually do before judging. (maybe the beautiful glowing lights make the complainers change thier mind or have some hypnotic effect on people or something?)

I just think that maybe yamato should throw in some other gear like the underarm weapon and missiles which would have sweetened the deal a bit more seeing as you get so much stuff for the VF-1 Super and strike kit. I really don't know: I think because the VF-0 got the FP with the plane, this should be included with yf-19, and then like the ghost booster for vf-0, you can have the fold booster seperate with some of the missiles and stuff seen in that pic. (all the goodies that are canon to the plane but just werent seen onscreen in the anime.) Personally this is the thing I'd want:

-yf-19 with fp included. (yang can be included too)

-fold booster is sold as a kit like the super/strike parts for vf-1. What you get are all the missiles, and the booster.

-limited edition arm weapon (make up some details if you can't find lineart. I actually don't mind if they did it)

the LE would allow yamato to sell a special yf-19 which the uber anal collectors would want to get to add as a MIB yf-19 one of a kind. (like the credit card valk only not as rare)

I think they should scrap the original plan to just follow what they did for the 1/72 macross plus line where they had seperate non-fast pack versions. (let's be honest how many really resisted the urge to not buy the super and strike parts and not want to upgrade thier valk?) At the rate yamato release thier products now, people will only feel shortchanged for being an early adopter and getting the non-fp yf-19. What does everyone else think? I see value in total number of items included, how much gimmicks they have, and details. The vf-1 FP kit and the GBP are all great "value" because of what you get, but "covers" feel kinda small and would have been better as included as freebies with the yf-19 in retrospect. (under my own definition of "value")

I think the Fold booster is the equivalent to the VF-0's ghost booster, or the VF-1's Super and Strike kit, and should be a seperate item, but with substantial extras like what we saw with the 1/48. (seperate micromissiles and all) But in this case, you get the missiles we didn't see in the anime.

Edited February 20, 2007 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Sebastian]

Why preorder? Hummm because we are all Macross Toy Whores!!

Because we love the whaiting, we count the days from the Japan/HK release till the the day the stuff is in our door step, the exitement every new toy brings, and so on.

Now... some people I guess preoder just to Bitc*h arround (maybe the money is not really the issue?) and some other just preorder because they love macross... (that's me).

I have enjoyed every single toy I have now on my shelf, I am not buying a car neither a high fi equipment, so I just enjoy like a kid; something many here should try to learn.

Certainly I am not a kid anymore in real life the fun and happiness this toys give to me are huge, compared with the money I spend on Gasoline, nannies, schools, hotels, air tickets, clothes... and so on...

Maybe some of the members should try to admire this little plastic things with kids eyes while they treat them with grown up hands. And again, if the only thing you see are the flaws, then find a new hobby, because you have lost it, and that is another issue you should treat with your shrink.

[Mowe]

Being on the b itching team, this is the first counter-b itching argument that I like, not bad...

Certainly I am not a kid anymore in real life the fun and happiness this toys give to me are huge, compared with the money I spend on Gasoline, nannies, schools, hotels, air tickets, clothes... and so on...

Edited February 19, 2007 by Mowe

[Aegis!]

Gotta agree with Sebastian, If we no longer enjoy these toys, as flawed as they might be, we should look for another hobby.

Then again, I´ll keep waiting for 2nd releases hands down.

[Kyp Durron]

Gotta agree with Sebastian, If we no longer enjoy these toys, as flawed as they might be, we should look for another hobby.

Then again, I´ll keep waiting for 2nd releases hands down.

Even though my YF-19 only has the canted gunpod problem, I too will wait for second releases from here on out.

-Kyp

[big F]

well, quality and price are not always linked... many high end products are notorious for having poor build quality... english cars come to mind.

I wont have it British cars are top quality better than even the Japanese

[attachmentid=40613]

ERMMM Maybe not then

(changed to get rid of slow download link)

Edited February 20, 2007 by big F

[Dante74]

The image doesn't seem to load properly.

If English cars aren't a good example, how about pre Montezemolo Ferrari's. Very very expensive, they looked great but the QC on them was notoriously bad.

[one_klump]

Forget lowering the price (it'll never happen)---just stop making flawed stuff, so that it's worth the price they charge!

Agreed. I'm not a HUGE yamato buys, but only because every time I buy a product of theirs, it breaks or is in some way malconstructed.

the VF-11b was the harbinger to this all. The legs fell off when I removed it from the packaging.

"Hmm, this probably won't happen on their later releases, Yamato love its fans." I thought.

VF-0S enters the scene. I read Graham's review. Sounds like a nice, solid toy. I get mine in the mail, and despite it being made totally out of plastic (I passed on the 1/48's so far), it cost more than the Die-Cast Mac+ valks. "No prob, there is a lot more detail on this toy." The ball joints on the shoulders are construsted so loose that the arms practically fall off when you have it hold a gunpod, and they won't even support themselves. So I end up paying for a detailed transformable toy only to be able to display in in Fighter mode to hide the limp arms.

I was ripped off buy Yamato. I was let down. I would have swallowed the price of the VF-0S if the toy was able to at least be DISPLAYED in all the modes. I could have bought a VF-0 kit from Hasagawa and gotten the same results I have now.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

I passed on the 1/48's so far

They are very good. Although they miss out on the cool double-jointed knees for gerwalk poses, like the recent vf0 valks, I have had no probs with them so far. (only thing is you need to tighten the wrists a little - too loose imo But everything else locks together firmly and the joints are tight. ) The fast packs feel like "masterpiece quality" of detail and have weight to them with covers that can be removed, and indiviual micromissiles, and the GBP armr set comes with similar grade of quality and detail. This is what a super upgrade kit should be if it were to be an indidivual purchase with it's own box.

Which is why I think it would be a good idea to have the yf-19 covers (no where near as much stuff as the FastPacks for vf-1 imo) come with the yf-19 since they are so small, and then have the fold booster set (sold seperate) come with the extra missiles that we didn't see in mac plus. (and maybe an arm weapon seen briefly in the anime.)

Fold booster + missiles would be the seperate set.

FP free with the yf-19 like the covers for vf-0.

So does everyone think that is fair? I think it only models what you get for the vf-0. ie the 0 gets the covers with the valk and there is no FP-less VF0. The vf-0 has the ghost booster which is optional, and so the yf-19 equivalent of that would be fold booster with missiles.

It's not that "nobody wants the fold booster". (In fact there were people suggesting they make one before we knew one was being made) Just that I think we should be getting FP covers for the yf19 for free. At first I didn't think it would be a problem, but now that I think about it, I don't like the idea of how it forces someone to get the fold booster if you just want to have a yf-19 with the FP upgrade.

Maybe for the vf-11 (assuming this is even being done) they could do something different since the FAST packs are more chunky and it goes a little closer to the vf-1 FP with chunky boosters on its back and all. But it seems to me the covers for the 19 would be better to be bundled with each 19. If yamato is planning on doing the extra missiles for the yf-19 I would suggest they go this route for the 19; eventually phasing out all "non-fp YF-19" releases in future, the same way the 1/72 FP vf-11 superceded the non-fp vf-11.

Hopefully by that time (or maybe earlier) the crooked gunpod issue will be addressed and you can only find "yf-19 with covers" in stores as the standard.

Edited February 20, 2007 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Jawjaw]

I know there are plenty of excuses like shipping costs, low volume production, weakening US dollar, higher complexity designs, etc. however it still doesn't add up IMO. I would think R&D would be cheaper these days with experience and computer designing. There have been plenty of 1/48's produced but the cost has shot up. Quality has improved but still inconsistent and nothing to brag about. I felt like the YF19 was a step down in quality and design from the 1/48 VF1's but cost a big chunk more. Things like a display stand or a few simple add on parts cost as much or more than other diecast transformers like Binaltechs. Cost just seems to go up from one model to another for little or no reason. I know Macross is not as popular as Gundam or Transformers but they always seem to sell well enough on online sites like hlj, bbts, twinmoons, etc. Even on ebay, prices remain fairly strong.

Granted, I will keep buying these things but much more selectively. When I do decide to get one, I will probably resort to getting one 2nd hand to save money. As much as I like the SV-51, I don't know if I can swing getting one if it's like $220 or more.

[Apollo Leader]

Regarding the pricing of Yamato's stuff, regarding something like the new YF-19 which has had a long and costly development and released in probably limited numbers, I can understand why its costing what it is, but in the case of their 1/48th VF-1's, it blows me away that these things have gone up in price when they continue to make virtually the same exact product fo almost 5 years straight. The only thing that really differs with the Stealth VF-1J (regular and Super), the Low Viz 2 VF-1A, the Kakizaki VF-1A, and the Angelbirds VF-1A is the paint job! After the Hikaru Super VF-1J came out 3 years ago, I did not buy another 1/48th VF-1 until I scored a brand new, never been opened, Low Viz 2 VF-1A for just about $85 total off of eBay back in August.

Unless I can get Yamato's stuff cheap off of eBay or someone's clearance, my Yamato Macross collecting is on hold. Just too expensive and getting to be too many horror stories of people's toys breaking.

[Beware of Blast]

Why preorder? Hummm because we are all Macross Toy Whores!!

Because we love the whaiting, we count the days from the Japan/HK release till the the day the stuff is in our door step, the exitement every new toy brings, and so on.

Now... some people I guess preoder just to Bitc*h arround (maybe the money is not really the issue?) and some other just preorder because they love macross... (that's me).

I have enjoyed every single toy I have now on my shelf, I am not buying a car neither a high fi equipment, so I just enjoy like a kid; something many here should try to learn.

Certainly I am not a kid anymore in real life the fun and happiness this toys give to me are huge, compared with the money I spend on Gasoline, nannies, schools, hotels, air tickets, clothes... and so on...

Maybe some of the members should try to admire this little plastic things with kids eyes while they treat them with grown up hands. And again, if the only thing you see are the flaws, then find a new hobby, because you have lost it, and that is another issue you should treat with your shrink.

Ah yes... along with the the broken 1/60 YF19 that I gotta find ways to fix or just live with it as it is, as well as posting warnings here as a way of fixing myself over what the Yamato Syndrome has caused me... not sleeping tight, not eating right, not peeing straight, not able to avoing pinching one in the middle during a dump... because one cannot help but blame and console himself for being so stupid or loosing it because of an expensive impulse buy, I'd say it's NOT the PERSPECTIVE that we've lost. But rather, it's Yamato who has LOST it, that needs a knock on the head.

Hindsight is a damn good thing to have, no?

[calvin]

the way I see this issue is that as a collector of both high end StarWars and Macross items I have to be selective about the items I buy,I have stopped pre ordering anything because I can usally find it below retail on ebay,it's really taken the need to pay full retail out of the picture,also I wait now as I want to see the reviews of others that includes photos and the QC issues,After I got my fill of VF-1A,S,J I stopped and decided that I would only buy from the T.V. series and DYRL,this has made dealing with collecting high end Macross items easier,I am waiting for Destroids and after that a SDF-1 and then I'm done,can't see handing them more money for anything else(unless I get some enemy mech)? I do enjoy the other movies and shows,but they just don't make me want to part with 200+ dollars everytime they come out or for that matter a booster set or ghost! I think alot of collectors are becoming picky and really I think it's a good move!!

[sketchley]

I would think R&D would be cheaper these days with experience and computer designing.

Inflation.

There have been plenty of 1/48's produced but the cost has shot up.

Inflation + changes in the exchange rate + increases in shipping costs & import fees.

AND, people have been willing to purchase these things at inflated costs. The manufacturer wants in on that action, so the costs go up.

Personally, as long as people are willing to spend as much as they have been on these things, the price will remain high, and possibly climb higher. If everyone (and I do mean everyone) stops purchasing them at the high prices, we'll see price cuts, but on the flip side, less variety produced by the company.

Part of the increased costs are due to R&D (need to buy the latest computers and the latest CAD software, and retrain your workers to remain compatable with the factory), but they are also due to an entirely new set of molds needing to be created. 'Simple' fixes as well, require new molds being made, and those things are expensive, in the thousands of dollars range.

I have a general question: are these kits hand or machine assembled?

[GDomino]

You're pretty funny to think that you think $125,000 is enough to run a business for one product line. They probably spent close to that to develope the model not inclduing the manufacturing run. They would of been out of business a long long time ago if that was the case. It takes a small group of poeple to run a buisness like Yamato and you can bet that if that's all they made you"re not going to be seeing macross yamato for long. You're too funny!

Speak for yourself bra... If you read the post again, I was using "generous" numbers based on Sketchley's calculations and a generalization of the VF-19's only run so far with a "generous" quantity run as compared to your estimates of 15-20k units, and 5 production runs in limited quantities of the VF-1 variants, with a note stating the obvious that they "could make a lot more".

[GDomino]

I know there are plenty of excuses like shipping costs, low volume production, weakening US dollar, higher complexity designs, etc. however it still doesn't add up IMO. I would think R&D would be cheaper these days with experience and computer designing. There have been plenty of 1/48's produced but the cost has shot up. Quality has improved but still inconsistent and nothing to brag about. I felt like the YF19 was a step down in quality and design from the 1/48 VF1's but cost a big chunk more. Things like a display stand or a few simple add on parts cost as much or more than other diecast transformers like Binaltechs. Cost just seems to go up from one model to another for little or no reason. I know Macross is not as popular as Gundam or Transformers but they always seem to sell well enough on online sites like hlj, bbts, twinmoons, etc. Even on ebay, prices remain fairly strong.

That's what I'm saying as well.

Keep in mind that it's not just the valks but there's milking from the separate "accessories" as well, i.e. Fast packs, GBP, or Miriya pilot figure for Q-rau. And let's bring in other lines that have been perceived as overpriced like Votoms (remember the separate Chrico figure), Escaflowne, the BGC hardsuits, & Garland.

[Aegis!]

All I know is, if this wasn´t a good business for Yamato they wouldn´t be making anymore valks. People make it look as if Yamato is having a hard time making toys for our spoiled arses. Production cost have gonne up, so ? I still se Yamato making NEW toys, exactly, you don´t take the risk unless you know there´ll be people willing to pay for your toys.

And the one thing that´s been making the difference is that we keep buying these toys! regardless of quality or prices, even when not knowing any of both (preorder buyers spend way too much than what it really costs).

Yamato is having a wonderful time making money off these toys, we should start to smarten up and enjoy this hobby, don´t run and buy these toys so abruptly, wait for 2 runs, that way at least you´ll have a nice quality toy and Yamato will learn that releasing flawed 1st runs as norm is not welcomed.

[kensei]

You buy in bulk. Not many of us want to buy that many of the same toy in multiples to get that lowered price. Take a look at all the sellers who sell single valks. eBay's got plenty at the $130 mark. Many of the retail sellers that advert in the sellers section sell at $130. In fact going to check their prices at their websites they range from $120 to $140 depending on where in the world they're located before shipping.

Whoops found a new high. $180 from a highly regarded online toy store.

Sorry to bring up an old post, but I just dug up my receipts. Sure I receive a discount (which equates to discounted shipping in the end really) but as my discounts were done at a rate, they still apply the same today. And I do honestly get more for my money now these days. The only weird thing is that some colour schemes (recent ones) are priced differently. Don't know why, popularity plays a part i guess.