The Official Yamato Price Gouging Rant Thread

[Godzilla]

So called "experts" talk about the price of oil going up and is affecting the costs of various toy manufacturing processes and the shipping costs involved. So a few questions;

1) Shouldn't the same costs affect other collectibles, for instance diecasts toys as in the melting/molding of zinc?

2) Is diecast that much more difficult to integrate into designs and is it more expensive than say the plastics, PVC, or whatever special plastic Yamato plans on using?

3) There are other similar sized JP toy companies out there like Aoshima, CMS, Max Factory, etc.. with more obscure licenses yet they manage to keep their diecast and non diecast toys at mostly manageable prices. How is this possible?

hmmm...

I never called myself an expert. Where did I say that? Apply a little common sense. I am telling what I experience and looking at law of economics. Did you go to school and take economics? Do you run a business? I can tell you from experience when I was selling on ebay shipping UPS and USPS, I had to pay more due to high cost of fuel in recent years. The USD always have been sliding against the yen. You watch the financial news about NYSE and Wall Street? Or are you that oblivous to the world news and events?

As for the other jap companies, are you really comparing apples to apples? Are those toys complicated? Most of them are damn figures not complicated toys that transforms from a vehicle to robot and these are resins. Aoshima Aliens dropship is great but I would not pay for that much for it.

Now let's talk about Transformer reissues from Takara? That is apples to apples comparison. Why the hell they that much? They are the same molds. Hell I remember as a kid, those same exact toys are were $20 not fracking $40 to $50. Ask Takara why it is so much? How about those BTs? They cost alot for plastic then? Why not Diecast for BTs? And adding diecast? You wanna pay more shipping as well since shipping is by weight?

This is fraking useless. I put it my views just to be flamed as a so called expert when it should be common sense. If I was a so called "expert" I wouldnt be arguing my points in here but on CNN so I can get paid more.

I cannot believe so much crap about this as it is a toy for god sake's. I mean what do you all want? You want the yammies to sold at what? $100? $50? $10? $5? Where do you want to see the price? Where does it end? Let's say you work and someone gripes about your quality of work so they should what reduce your salary? Oh hell, you get fired. So fire Yamato. Keep your money. Seems like everybody thinks they are being held hostage to buy Yamato Macross. I am not saying these are perfect by any means but hell they have gone a long way to try to satisfy ppl like us which to me it seems never enough based on these posts. When did everyone get unreasonable?

[do not disturb]

Unfortunately for quite a few customers, those expectations were not met on the VF-0 or the '19 (or the tragically beautiful GARLAND). Hence the resulting perception of 'price gouging'... or more accurately, 'not getting what I thought I was paying such a HIGH PRICE for'.

i think you hit the nail on the head.

if half these whiners paid $120, they still be pissed but not as pissed.

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as far as speaking with our wallets, that might work on the US retailers but in reality, it doesn't matter if we choose not to buy their toys, yamato doesn't care about the US market anyway and according to many, we have very little impact on the greater whole.

[eugimon]

i think you hit the nail on the head.

if half these whiners paid $120, they still be pissed but not as pissed.

---------------------------------------------------------------

as far as speaking with our wallets, that might work on the US retailers but in reality, it doesn't matter if we choose not to buy their toys, yamato doesn't care about the US market anyway and according to many, we have very little impact on the greater whole.

wait... who's a whiner?

[justvinnie]

Wrong, the issues of the collapsing feet and the loose elbows and shoulders have been addressed in most of them. The only thing that hasn't been addressed is the fragility of the shoulder piece due to it being relatively thin for it's work.

As someone mentioned, it's the shoulders. I don't want that will break. Fact of the matter is I am plenty pleased with all the Yammies I own right now. Well worth their cost.

vinnie

[Sebastian]

Whooooo hooo another "YAMATO BASHING THREAD!!" Really creative. It is Ok to point these problems, but how often these threads are popping is getting a bit annoying.

As I always say, I still remember paying 400 for a Chunky Monkey back in the days, old and yellowed… over 1000 for a mint one… So I don’t mind paying for an accurate Valk.

I kind of agree with some of the "Q.C. problems" many of you addressed , price is not bad (I am in Asia), and quality is unstable but allways fixable (at least I have fixed all my toys and have fun doing it).

Maybe yamato should tampoo print the valks more, and increase their Q.C in some way, but that's all they should do in my book.

Yamato is not as big as takara or Bandai, also Macross is not as big as Gundam or other shows; in fact to produce a high quality line of toys for an 80 anime is already a big thing and I thank yamato for that. Productions runs are short, tooling and designing very expensive… big effort this guys are doing. These are collectables not massive toys, and personally I like it in this way.

I am sorry to say but people here sounds like a bunch of bailarinas IMHO, if you don’t like don’t buy it, whining helps anyone, and definitely is not going to change Yamato policies. Well, Toynami is there... old 1/55 ABS bricks also... Gundam is also an option, or just find another hobby... get married, have babies...

[GDomino]

I never called myself an expert. Where did I say that? Apply a little common sense. I am telling what I experience and looking at law of economics. Did you go to school and take economics? Do you run a business? I can tell you from experience when I was selling on ebay shipping UPS and USPS, I had to pay more due to high cost of fuel in recent years. The USD always have been sliding against the yen. You watch the financial news about NYSE and Wall Street? Or are you that oblivous to the world news and events?

As for the other jap companies, are you really comparing apples to apples? Are those toys complicated? Most of them are damn figures not complicated toys that transforms from a vehicle to robot and these are resins. Aoshima Aliens dropship is great but I would not pay for that much for it.

Now let's talk about Transformer reissues from Takara? That is apples to apples comparison. Why the hell they that much? They are the same molds. Hell I remember as a kid, those same exact toys are were $20 not fracking $40 to $50. Ask Takara why it is so much? How about those BTs? They cost alot for plastic then? Why not Diecast for BTs? And adding diecast? You wanna pay more shipping as well since shipping is by weight?

This is fraking useless. I put it my views just to be flamed as a so called expert when it should be common sense. If I was a so called "expert" I wouldnt be arguing my points in here but on CNN so I can get paid more.

I cannot believe so much crap about this as it is a toy for god sake's. I mean what do you all want? You want the yammies to sold at what? $100? $50? $10? $5? Where do you want to see the price? Where does it end? Let's say you work and someone gripes about your quality of work so they should what reduce your salary? Oh hell, you get fired. So fire Yamato. Keep your money. Seems like everybody thinks they are being held hostage to buy Yamato Macross. I am not saying these are perfect by any means but hell they have gone a long way to try to satisfy ppl like us which to me it seems never enough based on these posts. When did everyone get unreasonable?

Just relax man. It is just a discussion on a toy afterall so why are you're panties in a knot. Keep in mind that I did not call you or anyone else an expert, nor did I claim myself to be an expert or majoring in economics. I am just asking how some of you guys can continue to justify the added costs of Yamato's toys... If the company is not at fault then are the consumers at fault for wanting quality products (bang for the buck)? I say Yamato is at fault because they do have an influence on the MSRP, being they are a profit driven company like every other company out there, even if they only make a pennies from every valk they sell (multiply that by thousands and that's still enough to show in their margins). They obviously continue to be in business because they have some profits out of it. So is it so wrong for the costumers to complain and be vocal about their disatidfactions. I may not be an economics major but I do know that customer service is still pretty high up there in business plans even though it may not be priority one anymore.

Other companies obviously have the same issues to deal with but we don't hear the same excuses over and over and over, most recent one I've heard that's gotten a chuckle out of me is they (Yamato) require more expenses due to their use of CAD during R&D. So going back to the original question, of which none of the Yamato defenders seem to have answered IMHO, why are we the consumers expected to foot the bill for Yamato's R&D? Yamato has been at it for 6, going on 7 years now and I've lost of track of how many first releases they've had but we continue to see the flaws that could've been taken cared of prior to release. Yet they continue to disappoint even though their mostly plastic toys are more expensive than some of Bandai's most complicated toys out there (again bang for buck). Whereas, other JP toy companies similar to Yamato's situations can release pretty good, not so flawed toys at inital release.

Yeah I'm throwing in Bandai's SOC line in the mix or even Studio Half Eye. I'll throw in Bandai's SOC Gunbuster or Takara/Hasbros MP Convoy when first released, even though most of you Yamato supporters will just claim these companies "have the financial backing" or "being giants in the industry". All I'll say is "they got there for a reason". Who says they don't fall under the same scrutiny from their consumers/costumers, but they do strive to satisfy them, not just with the mentality of "if you build it, they will come." If anything, I've always hoped that Yamato considers part of those added costs to go to improving their QC and they seem to do it in 2nd-X amount of reissues, BUT they always seem to disappoint in first releases which other companies given above seem capable of doing for a lot of in their initial releases.

Heck, I would be more accepting of Yamato's prices if they had SHE's reputation in the industry but unfortunantely they don't, even though they (Yamato) say they use CAD or advanced R&D/design process. They should just come out and say their business plan is wanting to be like Studio Half Eye, relying on their engineering aspects as their selling point and feel are justified in having their toys come close in build and quality, which SHE is known for by the way (expect breakage because of a lot of moving parts and lower quality resin). AND even then, I don't hear of SHE having this much breakage on their toys, {yeah and it's a given that SHE doesn't sell as much toys as Yamato, so it should be expected that there are less people complaining yada yada yada}. Ideally, the people that spent more would be more critical, more vocal, and louder in their disappointments.

If R&D, oil prices, currency rates & exchange, shipping costs, and middlemen wanting their share of the profits are the reasons Yamato's valkyries are so expensive, then why do other companies such as CM, Max Factory, Aoshima have toys that come close to being their MSRP and is still somewhat reasonable for everyone involved {again apples and oranges but indulge me}?

....And before anyone else brings it up.... It's Harmony Gold's Fault!

Edited February 17, 2007 by GDomino

[Ignacio Ocamica]

As I always say, I still remember paying 400 for a Chunky Monkey back in the days, old and yellowed… over 1000 for a mint one… So I don’t mind paying for an accurate Valk.

I was going to say the same, but it's useless

Some members DO provide constructive criticism.

I bet when Yamato gives us the finger and let Macross die, the same whinners will complain that there's nothing more to choose from.

I'm 30, Im getting married this december, and I work really hard for all I have accomplished. A toy at this age is like luxury item...

If it's expensive and I like it I'll buy it

If it's cheap and I like it I'll buy it

If it's a total POS but I like it I'll buy it, as simple as it reads

[Ignacio Ocamica]

....And before anyone else brings it up.... It's Harmony Gold's Fault!

It's always HG's fault

If we don't quit complaining we're all gonna die from peptic ulcer before we reach our 40's

[GDomino]

I bet when Yamato gives us the finger and let Macross die, the same whinners will complain that there's nothing more to choose from.

Thik about that... Yamato may not be holding anyone hostage, but like I said in an earlier post, they do have the advantage of the fact that they are the only game in town. They can take advantage of this fanbase's fears that they won't be around anymore, so there are those that will continue to support their practices as long as they provide the supply, even if "every now and then", the product they provide is slightly flawed and may piss off some folks.... slowly chipping away at their costumer base.

But they know there is always that next chump errr newbie around the corner.

[SpaceCowboy]

You know, add me to the list that is pretty much sworn off Yamato. There stuff looks great in pictures, but man there are so many problems with ever one of their toys that it is ridiculous. When I drop $100+ on a toy, I really do expect a solid toy. Some things don't bother me ("it doesn't perfectly match the line art"), but it should be fairly sturdy in all modes, and normal transformation should not cause concern for breakage.

I just got a Monster, and the thing is so loose and wobbly it is ridiculous. And the fact that I'm afraid to take any Yamato out of the box lest it break when I look at it sort of defeats the purpose of owning one. I was slightly interested in the -51, but now, unless it debuts for $80, I won't be picking it up. Even their second run toys have problems.

I've spent too many hundreds of dollars (thousands?) for toys I can't even really show my friends they are so fragile. Yamato needs to take a few lessons from Takara on how to make a decent transforming toy.

[kensei]

It's always HG's fault

No, it's always >EXO<'s.

[GDomino]

1) Shouldn't the same costs affect other collectibles, for instance diecasts toys as in the melting/molding of zinc? Yes it does affect other collectibles and all prices have gone up over time you probably just didn't notice. But not all retailers are equal some buy very small QTY maybe a case or two so their prices are always reflected. Melting of metal and oil does not really has anything to do with each other except that oil powers the machines. Oil is an acutal raw material of plastic...by the way look certain precious metal you can see a dramtic increase in prices. 1 ton of aluminum and 1 ton of steel is very close in price now. China is consuming so much and in return to produce products for the world the prices will only go up since raw material is not infinite

So you're saying that pound for pound, plastics are actually just as expensive as diecast (zinc) because oil is a raw material to produce it. Then diecast collectibles should be more expensive right since they have both plastic and diecast? I collect 1/18 diecast cars as well and I've heard the opposite, plastic is obviously a cheaper alternative to metals. Modelling companies like Minichamps, Autoart, CMC, and even Hotwheels are considering using more plastics to save on costs due to rising oil prices; not only for the the sake of making more plastics, but the for the shipping side, and because recycled plastics are actually cheaper on the long run also. It's a sacrifice that these companies are considering instead of passing the increased costs to the consumer. Diecast will be there, just less of it, meaning more plastics to maintain the same or slight increases in prices but not at the cost of say 10-30% mark ups.

2) Is diecast that much more difficult to integrate into designs and is it more expensive than say the plastics, PVC, or whatever special plastic Yamato plans on using? No it's not but it's alot more expensive than plastic. Look it up people sell by the TON prices vary from country to country.

So diecast is actually more expensive now??? I have CMC Mercedes 1/18 reprods that come in at less than what Yamato charges for a valk, and have complicated moving parts and more detailed. Bandai produces diecast toys with moving parts and are also just as complicated in engineering design and some are just as big a collectible as Macross is (see next point also). So how is it that Yamato is so special in jacking up their prices? So nope, I don't buy that either...

3) There are other similar sized JP toy companies out there like Aoshima, CMS, Max Factory, etc.. with more obscure licenses yet they manage to keep their diecast and non diecast toys at mostly manageable prices. How is this possible? You ansewered your own question they are obscure license with limited fan base and cannot withdstand the test of time like Macross as a brand which has worldwide fans that spans 20 + years. Maxfactory figure how many moving parts does it have? None you gotta compare apples to apples buddy. You cannot compare a Porsche to a Civic b/c they are completely different aside from have 4 wheels and steering wheel.

Alright so you're saying licenses like Godanner, Gunbuster, Getters, VoltesV, Dancougar, etc are so unpopular and are obscure that they haven't witstood 10-20+ years, and has no worldwide appeal or fanbase? And yeah Yamato really makes Porsches in their toys right? So the SOC Gunbuster must be a Ferrari in build then, and comes at about the same price? I am so sick of hearing "Apples and Oranges", it's a played out fruity defense... so comparing a WRX STI to a Lancer EVO is like apples to apples eh? Gomen but uh-uh.... Edited February 17, 2007 by GDomino

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Anyway I just look forward to graham's reviews of future toys. Hopefully he can show us a comparison between first releases and compare them to the newer ones to see if yamato has addressed these problems. The whining will probably die down in time, as these probs are fixed just as you saw with the GBP door mechanism, and the 1/72 vf-11 which had a more sturdy FP version that could be handled. Yamato have always listened to us whiners to improve stuff, so it is like a symbiotic relationship.

What's funny is if the anal-retentive and paranoid fans who actually bothered to open thier valks to check for stress had not done so and posted thier findings, the problem of tightness of screws would never be known. The golden rule: The squeaky wheel gets the oil. Customer is always right, provided that the complaint put forward is legit and proof is shown. The problem may not be widespread, but if evidence can show a problem, would you not want to know what that problem is before just wrighting it off as a random yamato basher? I'm sure they exist but not all complaints are just a guy whining about the costs, these are fans and senior members of the boards who are loyal customers for years who have seen better from yamato before. I'd rather have improvements and whine, than settle for less than perfect toy. I think the small stuff are all things that they can fix in later releases so there is no hating from me, just a feeling of wanting the best they can give. Sorta like how a coach can expect more from his team if he trains them extra hard which pushes them a little more to give better each time.

Edited February 17, 2007 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Fly4victory]

Sorta like how a coach can expect more from his team if he trains them extra hard which pushes them a little more to give better each time.

Spot On! and in no way negative. Thanks.

Edit: Still have not learned to type or spell!

Edited February 17, 2007 by Fly4victory

[big F]

As I always say, I still remember paying 400 for a Chunky Monkey back in the days, old and yellowed… over 1000 for a mint one… So I don’t mind paying for an accurate Valk.

Ahh the heady days of yesteryear.

Edited February 17, 2007 by big F

[danth]

A few tips for those of you who are whining about a CHILDREN'S TOY:

1) If you don't like it, don't buy it! There are plenty of other companies producing quality Macross variable toys...like Toynami! And remember, if you skip Yamato's release of the VF-19, some other company will come along in the next twenty years or so and produce another one. So just wait!

2) Skip first releases! If we all skip the first release of a toy, then Yamato will HAVE TO fix all the problems and release it again, for cheaper!

3) Not happy with Yamato's prices? Don't blame Yamato! Here are some handy pointers on saving when purchasing valkyries:

• Become a wholesaler! Get together with twenty trusted Macross buds and split the savings!
• Fly to Hong Kong! Buy local to save $$$
• Search for deals! You can save up to 5% with some dealers.

4) Tired of breakage, crooked parts, and and floppy joints? Solution: Don't complain! Remember, complaining doesn't help Yama...I mean anyone! A Macross toy forum is the last place you should be complaining about Macross toys. I mean, there are like five other threads bashing Yamato over the last couple years. You complainers are really stepping over the line!

The moral of the story: If you don't like it, don't buy it! Think of the joy you will experience knowing you saved over a hundred dollars by not buying that toy you've always wanted!

Edited February 17, 2007 by danth

[Dante74]

If I were Graham I'd ban all you haters and be done with it! That's one of the benefits of a forumocracy, the owner gets to kick whoever gets on his nerves.

[Mowe]

If people on this forum are so uptight about negative comments towards Yamato, may be this site should be renamed as Yamato's Macross World Forum with "No Yamato Ranting" policy...

[Godzilla]

If people on this forum are so uptight about negative comments towards Yamato, may be this site should be renamed as Yamato's Macross World Forum with "No Yamato Ranting" policy...

And become a robotech.com forum? Surely you jest.

As I said before the points are made. Yes Yamato has issues. Not like I experience them but proof from the pictures posted tells us so. I am not defending Yamato but finger pointing that is it someone's fault leads us nowhere. Complaining more to a mentality of mob is just plain stupid. What else can be done? We gotten to the point on some threads that went after Graham himself and that just isnt right.

[toysaddict]

So you're saying that pound for pound, plastics are actually just as expensive as diecast (zinc) because oil is a raw material to produce it. Then diecast collectibles should be more expensive right since they have both plastic and diecast? I collect 1/18 diecast cars as well and I've heard the opposite, plastic is obviously a cheaper alternative to metals. Modelling companies like Minichamps, Autoart, CMC, and even Hotwheels are considering using more plastics to save on costs due to rising oil prices; not only for the the sake of making more plastics, but the for the shipping side, and because recycled plastics are actually cheaper on the long run also. It's a sacrifice that these companies are considering instead of passing the increased costs to the consumer. Diecast will be there, just less of it, meaning more plastics to maintain the same or slight increases in prices but not at the cost of say 10-30% mark ups.

So diecast is actually more expensive now??? I have CMC Mercedes 1/18 reprods that come in at less than what Yamato charges for a valk, and have complicated moving parts and more detailed. Bandai produces diecast toys with moving parts and are also just as complicated in engineering design and some are just as big a collectible as Macross is (see next point also). So how is it that Yamato is so special in jacking up their prices? So nope, I don't buy that either...

Alright so you're saying licenses like Godanner, Gunbuster, Getters, VoltesV, Dancougar, etc are so unpopular and are obscure that they haven't witstood 10-20+ years, and has no worldwide appeal or fanbase? And yeah Yamato really makes Porsches in their toys right? So the SOC Gunbuster must be a Ferrari in build then, and comes at about the same price? I am so sick of hearing "Apples and Oranges", it's a played out fruity defense... so comparing a WRX STI to a Lancer EVO is like apples to apples eh? Gomen but uh-uh....

Your're missing the point. Dicast cars is a totally different market which is much much larger. World wide consumption of diecast cars is in the millions that would drive production cost significantly lower due to volume. Macross has a market of no more than probably 20K units production run and you want to compare to a diecast car that has a production run of maybe 500K?

[Dante74]

If I were Graham I'd ban all you haters and be done with it! That's one of the benefits of a forumocracy, the owner gets to kick whoever gets on his nerves.

If people on this forum are so uptight about negative comments towards Yamato, may be this site should be renamed as Yamato's Macross World Forum with "No Yamato Ranting" policy...

And become a robotech.com forum? Surely you jest.

I was just kidding around, hence the and .

[GDomino]

Your're missing the point. Dicast cars is a totally different market which is much much larger. World wide consumption of diecast cars is in the millions that would drive production cost significantly lower due to volume. Macross has a market of no more than probably 20K units production run and you want to compare to a diecast car that has a production run of maybe 500K?

Check out CMC's diecast cars bra, some come in quantities of less than 5000-15000 units, hand made in Germany, and a lot times come in less than what a YF-19 costs. Yes apples and oranges, but "bang for buck" can't be helped sometimes for toys. It can't be helped that Yamato be compared to Bandai as well. since toys aren't exactly the easiest to compare with different gimmicks, materials used, etc. But Yamato is a toy company, Bandai is a toy company, Takara is a toy company, SHE is a toy company, they all make transforming toys, they all have to deal with QC issues, they all have to deal with manufacturing costs, procurement costs, shipping costs, inflation, and are affected by oil prices... What is bang for the buck for their products at the same price ranges? Consumer's mentality. That to me is "apples to apples".

[Twoducks]

And become a robotech.com forum? Surely you jest.

As I said before the points are made. Yes Yamato has issues. Not like I experience them but proof from the pictures posted tells us so. I am not defending Yamato but finger pointing that is it someone's fault leads us nowhere. Complaining more to a mentality of mob is just plain stupid. What else can be done? We gotten to the point on some threads that went after Graham himself and that just isnt right.

I think that was just one smart ass comment someone made about Graham.

After the last three transforming toy releases with problems that could have been avoided, I think that this entire costumer battying might be useful in the long run.

That Yamato listens to Graham (a guy that runs the most important Macross site and that people all over the world visit) must mean that they actually take seriously to some extent the overseas market.

Why is that? Because they don't have such a big market in Japan as, let’s say, Bandai does with Gundam. So all the extra sales made outside of Japan have more impact on their total sales. Tiny as it may bee, it’s still a lot higher than the impact of overseas Gundam sales.

So, in other words, all the noise made could make them take notice that the overseas gravy market won’t just fork money because the big box says Macross and that those costumers are getting tired of their first release design fartups.

We should not preorder Yamato first releases and certainly not buy them until we know they have been properly made. Catch 22 problem? Don't think so:

-If we are important to Yamato’s sales, they can perfectly see that the lack of sales are because we want more quality on their first runs, not because we don’t want more Macross toys.

-If we are not important and only Japanese buyers count, then at least we won’t buy defective toys. It’s just a matter of adding 6 to 12 months more to the official first release date in our heads.

[GDomino]

Call me (us) "whiners" if you will, but did it ever occur to some of you guys that some of us “Yamato haters†were originally “supporters†of theirs, who have seen what this company was capable of and had optimism for what they could become, and now have just had it, because of constant disappointments? Believe me, some of the things you “supporters†are saying, I’ve read or said myself countless times. I started in this hobby in 1999, just about the time when Yamato started making Mac+ toys, and became a member to MW in 2000-2001. Back then, I saw them as a “company for the people,†saviors from the expensive after-market toys that were difficult to hunt down; AND I can honestly say that even BoB, Drifand, and many others that no longer post were their biggest “groupiesâ€; biting on every release, and were vocal defenders of Yamato from “haters†that came from RT.com. We were more forgiving back then and more accepting of flaws we saw (i.e. Tab B on the original YF-19, non perfect transformation for the 1/60 VF-1, rubber seepage from the 1/48 VF-1 hips, etc), only to see improvements later on. The common mentality was “they are just starting up, and they seem to be making improvements, a step in the right direction.†Price wasn’t even an issue for me, $120 for a 1/48, “not bad†I said, “considering all the gimmicks†the 1/60 didn’t have. Go back to the old boards, you’ll see some of our “blind†optimism. So yeah, I was a “supporter†until about 7 months ago when two back to back Yamato (first release) purchases broke on me. So I haven’t purchased any since. But after 6 years of experience, not only on Macross toys but going into other toys, I expect more from them. I opened my eyes to seeing that this toy company is no different from other toy companies out there. They are out for the bottom line, that’s the reality of it. So just like every other company out there, they need to be judged and scrutinized for their flaws, for what they really are (at this time). I’ve seen their “goods†and their “bads,†unfortunately their “bads†outweigh their “goods†from what I’ve seen here and personal experience. Will I buy from them again? Maybe, if I see the improvements we have been asking for all this time start showing up in their toys.

Maybe I am being vocal now because I still hope to see the best come out of this company. So if anything, I don’t want them to fail. So forgive me all "ye high and mighty supporters" for betraying the cause....

Edited February 17, 2007 by GDomino

[Godzilla]

I was just kidding around, hence the and .

I know. I forgot to put this after my statement. Give me a break it has been rough 2 weeks at work and dating this girl.

[sketchley]

I find it very interesting that the majority of non-supportive of Yamato posters appear to be forgetting that they are buying an import from Japan. In simple terms, that means that the retail cost is DOUBLED. It does not matter the product - in the past, I have purchased imported Japanese manga, books and MG Gundam kits. I was blown away at how much more expensive they were compared to the sticker price, and blown away again after I came to Japan, and saw how cheap they really are, in their native market. (Double the cost when imported, half the cost when bought domestically.)

Having worked with an import/export company, I know that only a small amount of the mark-up is because of the local retailer. Most of the price increase is eaten up with middlemen, import fees, customs duties, tariffs, and the currency exchange rate. All of that combined, equals roughly a doubling of the domestic retail cost. (as has been mentioned by others earlier in this thread - thank you for the efforts.)

Some analogies - distributors sell comic books to retailers at 50% of the cover price. Up to another 25% to 35% can be added due to shipping and other middlemen. Tack on store overhead (payroll, electricity, rent, etc.,) a comic retailer is making usually less than 5% of the cover price in profit. The publishers were selling their comics to distributors at around 10 to 25% of cover price (I'm guesstimating here, based on my experience with manufacturers in other industries,) and they are definitely NOT making 100% of the cover price in profit (maybe between 0.1 and 2.5% of the cover price.)

I've worked with a wholesaler manufacterer, whose products retailed at $30 USD. The company sold the products at $2 USD to wholesalers, who sold it at $5 USD to distributors, who sold it at $10 to 15 USD to retailers. The company certainly didn't make $28+ USD in profit per item. It made a low $0.10 to $0.15 USD profit per item.

Based on that info, Yamato is only getting $7 to $12.5 USD per product you buy! (Based on a $200 USD figure quoted above.)

That $7 to $12.5 USD isn't all profit. Maybe a maximum of a 1/3 is profit. The rest? Manufacturing, company overhead, storage, materials, etc.).

I'm not a Yamato defender, please do not mistake me as one. I have never purchased their products, and doubt that I will. I wrote this to correct the gross assumptions being presented in this thread. Yes, Yamato is putting out slightly flawed product, and it hurts them in the long run*, but what do you expect for $12.5 USD or less?

*though they do improve their quality with time, and these are rather complicated transforming toys after all.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Ah...if only there were no HG issue we might even be enjoying better prices due to not having to go through importers. But yeah I agree with pretty much those points.

There are times where importing for some things can actually be cheaper though. I buy my games imported (including all the fees and currency conversion) and the total price at the end is cheaper than local. (also benefit of being region free)

Now I'm ok to pay high prices personally, (I was one of those who bought the Qrau which many can agree was overpriced for what you get) but I still agree to some extent with some people about the FP being a little overpriced compared to what you got with FP for vf-1. It does look kinda barebones since all they are, is just these covers. ("VF-0 had them included why not yf-19?" is the question that seems to be on people's minds) I'm still eventually going to buy one to have everything depending on reviews. (still wondering how the fold booster lights up and what kind of pattern it has to it)

One thing we can all agree on is: boxes too big and ugly. Would be good in future if yamato has a way to sell the vf-1 at a discounted pricepoint by sacrificing some of the presnetation. Like how these days you see pc gamecases in small boxes so retailers can actually fit more on the shelves rather than be in these humongous boxes which take up lots of space and inside the boxes is lots of empty space in them. Maybe use better cardboard and smaller overall box, and shipping cost could be lessened for the overseas buyer?

We can complain and make jokes about how George Lucas is milking the fanbase with his starwars dvd releases, we can complain about hg with the various robotech dvd versions which is even made fun of on tv, (in the other anime forums) so I think (although I may not agree with thier view) a person should also be allowed to do it on occassion with yamato. ie Poor quality stickers, lack of tampo prints compared to other companies, materials that might need a bit more strength, joints that need a bit more stiffness or ratchets etc Some of these things are things people complained about the toynami toys too. It's not like we are picking on only yamato when we batty.. Welcome to the internet, where no matter how good quality you think something is, there will always be a group who is disapointed by something minor and who has different standard of measuring things to others. What's minor to one person is a major thing to another.

Edited February 18, 2007 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Ultra Leader]

Hmm...I'm not so sure about that sketchley.

I have serious doubts regarding the whole Yamato selling each product for $12.50 USD...while the end consumer pays $200.00 USD. I don't think any Manufacturer would be suicidal enough to allow that sort of mark up to occur. By this logic the mark up exceeds the Manufacturer Sale Price by 1000%.

Unless you're purely referring to Foreign Exports. If so, these sorts of mark ups still amount to robbery in broad daylight! Is this $200.00 price tag issued by Yamato? Or is this $200.00 price tag issued by their distributor? Or is this $200.00 tag issued by a local retailer in the States? You'd have to determine that in order to get a rough idea of how much profit Yamato's making on each of their products.

What'd I'd also be interested in knowing is how much it costs Yamato to manufacture each product...

[sketchley]

Knowing how much a product costs to be manufactured is misleading at best. The $2 USD product mentioned in my previous post cost something like $0.98 CAD in materials, and $1.50 to 1.85 in labor, overhead, and etc..

Anyhow... as for the above figures, it was based on imports costing double the domestic retail cost ($200/2 = $100. Fairly similar to the $120 USD paid in HK - also an import into that country. )

The $200 USD is obviously not issued by Yamato - given that it retails for far less in HK, and Japan doesn't use the USD as it's currency.

All of the other questions were answered in my previous post. However, just to clarify - that $12.50* isn't to any customer. It's to a wholesaler who is buying somewhere in the ballpark of 5,000 to 10,000 (probably more) units. Distributors, paying at least double the wholesale cost of $12.50, would still be purchasing hundreds, if not thousands of units.

It's all to do with the economy of scale, etc., my friend.

*Edit: the $12.50 is an estimation based on similar experiences. It may not be accurate, and it is probably higher. The point of the figure is to highlight the small sum that Yamato actually receives, in proportion to the total amount spent on the product.

Edited February 18, 2007 by sketchley

[toysaddict]

I find it very interesting that the majority of non-supportive of Yamato posters appear to be forgetting that they are buying an import from Japan. In simple terms, that means that the retail cost is DOUBLED. It does not matter the product - in the past, I have purchased imported Japanese manga, books and MG Gundam kits. I was blown away at how much more expensive they were compared to the sticker price, and blown away again after I came to Japan, and saw how cheap they really are, in their native market. (Double the cost when imported, half the cost when bought domestically.)

Having worked with an import/export company, I know that only a small amount of the mark-up is because of the local retailer. Most of the price increase is eaten up with middlemen, import fees, customs duties, tariffs, and the currency exchange rate. All of that combined, equals roughly a doubling of the domestic retail cost. (as has been mentioned by others earlier in this thread - thank you for the efforts.)

Some analogies - distributors sell comic books to retailers at 50% of the cover price. Up to another 25% to 35% can be added due to shipping and other middlemen. Tack on store overhead (payroll, electricity, rent, etc.,) a comic retailer is making usually less than 5% of the cover price in profit. The publishers were selling their comics to distributors at around 10 to 25% of cover price (I'm guesstimating here, based on my experience with manufacturers in other industries,) and they are definitely NOT making 100% of the cover price in profit (maybe between 0.1 and 2.5% of the cover price.)

I've worked with a wholesaler manufacterer, whose products retailed at $30 USD. The company sold the products at $2 USD to wholesalers, who sold it at $5 USD to distributors, who sold it at $10 to 15 USD to retailers. The company certainly didn't make $28+ USD in profit per item. It made a low $0.10 to $0.15 USD profit per item.

Based on that info, Yamato is only getting $7 to $12.5 USD per product you buy! (Based on a $200 USD figure quoted above.)

That $7 to $12.5 USD isn't all profit. Maybe a maximum of a 1/3 is profit. The rest? Manufacturing, company overhead, storage, materials, etc.).

I'm not a Yamato defender, please do not mistake me as one. I have never purchased their products, and doubt that I will. I wrote this to correct the gross assumptions being presented in this thread. Yes, Yamato is putting out slightly flawed product, and it hurts them in the long run*, but what do you expect for $12.5 USD or less?

*though they do improve their quality with time, and these are rather complicated transforming toys after all.

Right on ! Somebody understands!

[eugimon]

Hmm...I'm not so sure about that sketchley.

I have serious doubts regarding the whole Yamato selling each product for $12.50 USD...while the end consumer pays $200.00 USD. I don't think any Manufacturer would be suicidal enough to allow that sort of mark up to occur. By this logic the mark up exceeds the Manufacturer Sale Price by 1000%.

Unless you're purely referring to Foreign Exports. If so, these sorts of mark ups still amount to robbery in broad daylight! Is this $200.00 price tag issued by Yamato? Or is this $200.00 price tag issued by their distributor? Or is this $200.00 tag issued by a local retailer in the States? You'd have to determine that in order to get a rough idea of how much profit Yamato's making on each of their products.

What'd I'd also be interested in knowing is how much it costs Yamato to manufacture each product...

Having also worked in retail where 90% of our goods came from overseas... I think sketchley is definitely on the right path with what yamato takes home.

What I find disturbing is this notion that yamato needs to account for what they charge. This stuff isn't bread and milk.. these are luxury goods and yamato can charge whatever they want. If yamato want's to charge 50 bucks for a light up pen and some plastic, that's their right. It OUR right to decide if that plastic is worth it to US. If it's not, OH WELL, don't buy it then. These things aren't life saving medicines, these aren't basic staples for life, these are toys. Debating about the relative worth of their toys is fine and dandy... and I'm sure there are plenty of people who think 50 bucks is a fair price and they'll buy it. Good for them and there will some people who think 50 bucks is too much and won't buy it... fine for them as well. It's our choice and right as a consumer. If you think that some retailer is ripping you off, go buy it from someone else. If you think it's suspicious that everyone is selling the same item within 5% of each other... well, maybe there's a reason... if you think the reason has to do with small rooms, sweaty fatty white guys smoking sigars, then go file a complaint with the better business bureau or try to have them investigated for collusion or something.

But arguing about yamatos business practices, or comparing them to some other company selling a toy based off a different license is just all so much intellectual masturbation. We don't have the information, we're not going to get the information and even if we had the information, the second it gets put up on a public forum, i bet there will be a nice cease and desist coming down the pipes.

[LL Cool VF1J]

I know. I forgot to put this after my statement. Give me a break it has been rough 2 weeks at work and dating this girl.

judging by the amount of 1/48s you have, I refuse to believe you are dating a girl.

j/k

[kensei]

judging by the amount of 1/48s you have, I refuse to believe you are dating a girl.

j/k

Ah believe it. Cause he's barely opened even 10% of them. He's saving up for his retirement.

[big F]

Ah believe it. Cause he's barely opened even 10% of them. He's saving up for his retirement.

As long as Gozilla dosnt start collecting girls like he does Vf`s he should be o.k

I mean a basement full of Yamato products is one thing but a bunch of girls would take up ten times as much room and would eat him out of house and home.

[danth]

But arguing about yamatos business practices, or comparing them to some other company selling a toy based off a different license is just all so much intellectual masturbation. We don't have the information, we're not going to get the information and even if we had the information, the second it gets put up on a public forum, i bet there will be a nice cease and desist coming down the pipes.

That may be true, but there is another issue that Yamato supporters tend to ignore: even when someone gets a great deal on a Yamato, it better be damn-near perfect right out of the box. Why? Because Yamatos are advertised, and priced, as high-end collectibles. When a company charges eighty dollars or more for their "collectible" toys, and they break easily, or have defects across the line, that's a problem.

As for "price gouging," I think it's happening. I don't know who's responsible -- probably a little bit Yamato, a little bit retailers, and a little bit insane fans with too much money. But you can't deny that YF-19 prices are a huge jump, and it can't be explained by actual costs.

Damn...remember when capitalism and technology were actually supposed to make things cheaper?

Edited February 18, 2007 by danth