The Official Yamato Price Gouging Rant Thread

[Mechamaniac]

OK, I've been thinking about this for a while and to be honest I'm too lazy to do all the necessary research but we all know it's been happening for a while so we might as well have a place to rant about it. It's been sticking in my craw ever since Graham's last interview with Yamato and his warning about the expected price of the SV-51...

The retail price point is not set yet, but expect it to cost more than the 1/60 scale YF-19, due to it's large size and complex design with greater number of parts.

I am wondering why it is that WE are expected to foot the bill for Yamato's R&D? I know that these aren't "toys" in the little kid sense of the word but I think the prices are really starting to reach the ridiculous level here.

What's worse, I've seen many a 40 dollar toy that is just as well constructed (if not better) than the $100+++ Yamato toys. Their QC lately with such glaring issues as the VF-0A and the YF-19 with regard to the price point of these toys is bordering on criminal neglect.

The disgustingly high price tag of the YF-19 FP Combo and the YF-19 FP Accessories seems like the semi-final FU from Yamato...until the SV-51 comes out and we all bend over yet again.

So, there's my rant, KEEP IT HERE and KEEP IT CIVIL.

Rant away.

[David Hingtgen]

2nd post, 2nd Mod, so now it's 2x as official.

Anyways---yup. And it seems like we may all be paying for a big display stand for the -51 that few of us will use. Last I heard, part of the reason for the -19's small gunpod was because of the stand. Stand, stand, stand----seems quite a bit of design compromises and our money goes into those stands---and I don't even own one!

And it's always appropriate to bitch about the -19's angled gunpod. WTF. Seriously---that alone pretty much proves Yamato doesn't test FINAL versions, or doesn't try every mode of the final version, or something. Because EVERY YF-19 has that problem. When it's 100%, it's not a QC error---that's a flawed design, inherent to the mold. And since Graham's samples didn't have that problem--that means somebody, somewhere, changed something---and didn't 'fess up. It's likely in the category of, "oh, this won't make any difference at all, but it'll save us 4 yen per -19 built" changes they all approved 2 days before the molds were finalized, and then realized too late that it DID make a problem.

Or something along those lines. Yes, prototypes often have problems that need to be fixed--that's what they're for. But just as often, someone tries to change or "fix" something that doesn't NEED to be changed or "fixed", and introduces new problems---but since it was OK on the prototype, they don't think to check it on the final version, assuming new problems wouldn't crop up. But they always do. Maybe they tried to tighten up the arm-to-shield joint just a little bit more, or get the elbows to tuck in .05mm closer---and didn't realize until it was too late that they little tweak, had a very big effect on the gunpod. Completely unforseeable, but still--would have been caught if ANY final, final version was simply put into fighter mode with the gunpod in place.

You always have to check the final version, in every way. If you don't and just ASSUME all the parts will fit because the computer and early mockups said so, you end up like Airbus, 2 years behind schedule and billions over budget, because the wires won't fit.

PS--lately, it seems Yamato's answer to everything is "we'll make it out of POM next time". Why don't they do that to START with? Seriously doubt it's because POM costs more--maybe like "5 yen per kilo" more or somethin. For any toy/model, materials cost is miniscule. Did you know that for many injection-molded plastic items, the cost of the paper to make the cardboard box, costs more than the plastic itself? You're literally paying for the packaging-----and we sure are with Yamato and their MegaBoxesâ„¢. They could REALLY learn a thing or two from Takara/Hasbro---they sure seem to be able/willing to pack toys into smaller boxes, even if they have to be partially transformed to do so---and they're still on full display in window boxes. There's no excuse to have GIGANTIC boxes that probably adds 1200Y to the base price, even for customers in Japan.

PS---the absolute masters of packing? Hasegawa. Open up one of their kits, and you'll never get it back in the box.

[kensei]

Big time Yamato buyer (aka psuedoshareholder) here. I'll step up and say my bit, as I am certainly every bit as important as a mod in this issue. Now it's 10x as official (multiply by David's 2x and you get 20 ).

I totally agree with the VF-0 and SV-51 over the price issues. The YF-19 is the only time, the only time that I will forgive them due to it's complexities. But it ends there. Although I love the YF-19 toy, there were a few issues like the gunpod and rear landing gear, that had silly reasons or overlooks as to why they made it that way or got through QC, unacceptable for the price. While it is not the guys in the boardroom or the designers that are at fault, they should bloody well get their arses down to the factory and tell the workers to shape up or ship out with their work quality.

Yamato, we love your toys, but you must realise that it's a blood, sweat and tears that buy them. I know that there is a very small market out there, but consider lowering the price and make profit by selling high quantities of toys, rather than high premiums on toys.

I now call Godzilla and Valk-1S, kicker and Sithlord to the stand.

Edited February 13, 2007 by kensei

[David Hingtgen]

Forget lowering the price (it'll never happen)---just stop making flawed stuff, so that it's worth the price they charge! If the YF-19's gear didn't look all wonky, and the gunpod was straight-----few people would complain at all---sure it'd still be expensive, but at least you'd feel like you got your money's worth. And maybe if the FP's were included with the -19. I've ranted plenty of times how the VF-0 had "free" leg armor, and the -19's is little different, yet we didn't get it AND paid more for it. And no missiles, either.

[Mechamaniac]

Agreed, the price will never lower, and to be honest as I stated before, these aren't kids toys.

However, they are getting to the point where the only adults that will buy them will be the "Otaku No Video" types that live in tiny apartments crammed full of anime stuff and never interact with the outside world. I get collector's level toys and all, but these are reaching the point where anyone with a LIFE beyond saving for and buying toys will either not be able to afford them, or simply choose not to buy them because they'd rather EAT or feed their family.

[kensei]

True about the price. Add value if you are going to charge that price. Put a decent effort into and and prove that you have, and I'll pay a decent price.

[Mowe]

Dido all.

My simple answer would be greed but some people justify it by calling it business profiting.

Unfortunately, there is a market out there willing to pay for these expensive toys (suckers like you and me...) Right now, the"Then 80s" grown up professionals have an incredible buying power and toy makers are simply doing what ever they can to suck us dry.

We know everything is made in China by dirt-cheap labour. I can understand if diecast toys prices go up due to sky rocketing metal prices, but Yamato’s stuff are 90% plastic. It could not be the raw materials.

I hear excuses like expensive tooling, mould, and "many little parts", but I really like to hear somebody from the industry to give us an insight to what $ figures we are talking about or what their percentage to the final production cost. Convince me with hard figures and I'll believe these excuses.

I think in the end, it is down to what profit margin Yamato want to set, and I think they are making a killing.

[Dangard Ace]

I'm done with pre-ordering Yamato's. As I've said I hate the oversized boxes. For $200 the YF-19 shouldn't have required any of the "fixes" that I had to do to get the shoulders, landing gear, and gun to sit right. Plus the toy is light on accessories. 1 gunpod and spare canards? WTH do I want with spare canards? I don't customize so I don't need those pieces. Fast Packs should've been included considering the price.

1/48's at ~$130? The price has gone up since it was first released and it's at, what the 10th version released now where the only colour change is a stripe? The price should be lowered or not increased at all since R&D is over and done with ages ago. Even if they did hire a custom painter to come up with new color schemes like the stealth and low vis2 the hiring cost of that painter is not going to add up to the cost of a R&D team.

SV-51? I like it but I don't like it enough to drop down over $200. My price limit for toys is $200. If it's over $200 it better be the size of the transformer Fortress Maximus or it better be something that can make and serve me toasted bread in the morning.

[drifand]

The only other company I know from personal experience that commands such equal amounts of love and hate is... APPLE. The whole 'David vs Goliath' mentality translates especially well (only Yamato makes Macross stuff for the rest of us!); as does the premium pricing for materials that don't always make the grade (PPC chips are FASTER than Intels, REALLY! Right.)

Heck, when I first got into Macs because of my design studies, I felt the first flush of heady excitement too... that this company (Apple) 'understood' what I needed to feed my passion. That was pretty much how I felt about the early M+ releases too... 'At last!' etc. And no matter how expensive it may seem at the time, it felt justifiable. I know I paid a small fortune for my first PowerMac running a bare 80MHz and loved it too.

But everything goes in cycles. Apple lost a lot of love in the mid 90s because they produced turds and still priced them like Belgian chocolates. My feelings then when I saw PCs speeding away at GHz levels while Macs ate dust is just like how I feel about Yamato's recent output: sad, hurt, outraged and yet... hopeful. It took near financial disaster for Apple to wake up and take notice of what really mattered to their loyal customers. But they did and now are thriving once more... not just on past glories but on their own merits.

Is Yamato on a similar track? Who knows how long we're willing to take the collective whipping in the wallets? Lord knows, the sheer APPEAL of Mac OS kept users faithful to Apple for the longest, most illogical time. The magical lure of Macross may yet surpass a mere computer operating system.

[Beware of Blast]

Ya know, the SOC Gunbuster came out at about the same time as the 1/60 '19. IIRC, the MSRP for Gunbuster was 19,800 yen, the '19, 18,8000 yen and you know what? The YF19 retailed for slightly higher than the Gunbuster st shops in both Singapore and Kuala Lumpur. They say it's because everybody is clamoring for the '19. Gunbuster was just 'nother supa robot... they say.

UNFECKINGBELIEVABLE.

The thing for me is, both prices (although crazy expensive) is already a secondary issue for me. I understand that if I'm to have these things, arguing about it won't help. What I'm unable to understand is, why is Yamato's '19 so badly made? They went all the way to get the best CAD drawings done, which I'm sure wasn't cheap at all, they went all the way to make sure the sculpts of the '19 they make is SUPA accurate to the CAD drawings, which sure is another hole in their pocket.... Then, they handover their blood sweat and tears to some toy manufacturer (who are surely not cheap also) to get it fvcked up.

I mean, I looked at my Gunbuster and I can't help comparing them both. Apples and oranges I know. But we're talking about BUILD QUALITY and FINISHING. Gunbuster is almost 60% plastic, none of them are POM and yet, everything holds together nicely, tightly and transforms like a dream. You know why? His innards and crucial areas that hold the transforming ABS as hinges, pegs and sockets are all DIECAST METAL.

Diecast metal innards.

What gives Yamato the balls and creativity to attempt such crazy transforming feats of the '19 to rival someone more established, more careful when making the Gunbuster in toydom to attempt the same thing with nothing but plastics?

Maybe it's our money.

Yamato needs to be taught a lesson guys. We gotta hurt their bottom line. We gotta stop buying anything Yamato for a while, at least until they shape up.

[kensei]

1/48's at ~$130? The price has gone up since it was first released and it's at, what the 10th version released now where the only colour change is a stripe? The price should be lowered or not increased at all since R&D is over and done with ages ago. Even if they did hire a custom painter to come up with new color schemes like the stealth and low vis2 the hiring cost of that painter is not going to add up to the cost of a R&D team.=

Where? I've seen 1/48s close to a hundred before buying. Shouldn't be too much more. I remember the day a few years ago where it was NORMAL to be paying $130 USD before shipping!

[eugimon]

drifand, I was totally thinking the same thing... the only other company that I felt I was burned for being an early adopter has been apple. I no longer trust a first release of any apple product! And I grew disgruntled with the 20% apple premium a long long time ago.

As for yamato... well, I said it in a previous post... the past three yamato releases: garland, vf-0 and yf-19 have turned me from enthusiast to consumer. I'm not willing to be an apologist for them anymore. When I spend 200+ dollars on something, I fully expect that it won't fall apart simply because some exec at yamato decided that they would be cheap and use inferior plastics or couldn't be bothered to inspect a production sample for QC errors.

I'll wait and see how the SV-51 turns out. I'm not bothering to pre-order this thing at all. No more 1st releases for me.. not when I have every reason to expect it to have design flaws, to be addressed in the next release and that will have over priced stand alone accessories that would have been cheaper if I waited until the gift bundle.

Graham, I'm sorry you think we're being overly critical and negative. But right now, I have some 800 dollars woth of busted yamato toys sitting in my closet and it looks like i'll have to spend more money just to fix them. This isn't stuff that broke because I'm so clumsy american who can't be bothered to read the manual.. this is stuff that just shattered on me because of poor design or poor materials choice.

[Dangard Ace]

Where? I've seen 1/48s close to a hundred before buying. Shouldn't be too much more. I remember the day a few years ago where it was NORMAL to be paying $130 USD before shipping!

You buy in bulk. Not many of us want to buy that many of the same toy in multiples to get that lowered price. Take a look at all the sellers who sell single valks. eBay's got plenty at the $130 mark. Many of the retail sellers that advert in the sellers section sell at $130. In fact going to check their prices at their websites they range from $120 to $140 depending on where in the world they're located before shipping.

Whoops found a new high. $180 from a highly regarded online toy store.

[Fortress_Maximus]

So many valid reasons why none of us should accept the qc/design errors that Yamato continues to subject their paying customers to. Like many other people have clearly expressed their disapproval, I too can no longer bring myself to spend $200+ on any bloody Yamato product that continues to have inexcusable qc/design mistakes.

I don't believe the price point will ever drop and I am willing to back away from Yamato all together. If I stopped today, yes I will eventually miss out on some great Macross goodness, but IMO I'd feel I am getting my monies worth paying $500 for one 100% complete, no yellowing MIB Fortress Maximus or $500 for a MIB 1/55 Elintseeker instead of buying even one more error prone Yamato product.

From here on out, as far as I am concerned Yamato needs to prove their products are truly worth buying... otherwise I predict they will continue to lose their once loyal customers.

Edited February 13, 2007 by Fortress_Maximus

[TheLoneWolf]

I too have found Yamato's recent prices questionable.

When the 1/48 was released, we justified it's pricetag due to it's 1) relatively small production run and 2) the R&D involved in making such a complex toy. Four years later, with numerous reissues and repaints under their belt, and the prices for the 1/48 have actually gone higher? Sounds like we're being taken for a ride.

The 1/60 YF-19 is a marvelous piece of engineering which would seem to justify it's high pricetag. But having built several of the past YF/VF-19 models, owned the Bandai 19 toys, and even Yamato's previous 1/72 YF-19 toy, there doesn't seem to be as many innovative transformation techniques used here as there are improvements of what's already been done in the past. Kudos to the accurate canopy, cod piece, and rotating canards which were all new (to me at least), but the folding fists, rotating knee joints, et al have all been done before by Yamato or other companies. So does this justify the 19 as Yamato's most expensive Valkyrie to date? And can we expect the 19 to become even more expensive with the inevitable repaints and reissues?

David, I agree with you that Yamato's boxes are unusually large, but I wonder just how much Yamato can shrink it down without risking the toy being put to risk. On the other hand, the VF-1 FAST Packs have absolutely no reason for such large packaging, and I have a feeling that the YF-19 Fold Booster and armor will come in a similiarly sized box. Other than protecting it's contents, I see no advantage in large boxes. If you're going to embellish it with beautiful artwork (Takatoku) or intricate designs (Toynami), then it's ok. But Yamato's boxes are very dull and won't catch the eyes of non-Macross fans. Having worked in retail, shelf space is very precious and I think Yamato is hurting themselves with their bloated boxes.

I realize Yamato isn't a charity group and that they're here to make money, but if I'm going to pay the premium for a toy, it had better fantastic and not require me to modify or reinforce it right out of the box. Threads like these remind me why I stick to 2 - 3 Yamato products a year.

[bandit29]

I've been done Yamato toys for awhile. I just felt I wasn't getting my money's worth anymore. For the price, the quality is just not there.

200.00 for DIY fix it up YF-19? No thanks. I love the YF-19 but who needs the aggrivation. The SV-51 is an overpriced nightmare waiting to happen.

Ya I've heard all excuses Macross is a niche' market, Yamato is a small company etc..

The one thing that bugs me about Macross toys is that there is no middle ground. You either have junky gashapons or high end toys.

[do not disturb]

you guys are blaming the wrong people as far as the prices are concerned.

yamato is not at fault, sellers/vendors and idiotic people who place preorders at ridiculously high prices are the ones to blame.

a HK member paid $120 for his YF-19 and walked out the store with it....how is that possible?

that same HK member pays on average of $89 for his VF-1's....how is that possible?

you still want to blame yamato? you really think its their fault?

try blaming the sellers/vendors, try blaming the morons that voice how much their willing to pay for something, try blaming the people who place preorders at inflated prices.

yamato is a wholesaler, the sell their toys at wholesale prices. they don't have a retail store, nor a retail website, its sellers both here in the US, and the sellers overseas that are gouging us, no one else.

when a preorder comes up and no one places it, the website will lower the preorder price. if a preorder is set at a very high price and a bunch of people preorder it, then you can expect to pay more becauss of those idiots. why would they sell it for any less?

heres another example,

how is it that a small fry like me, that paid full retail and shipping for his YF-19's, was able to offer them for less than any US seller at that time? maybe shipping by boat? i guess, but twinmoons, BBTS, and every other vendor gets their stuff by boat, yet they still charged on average of $205 plus shipping.....and mind you they paid WHOLESALE PRICES for their stuff.

our showing of interest + voicing what were willing to pay + placing preorders = ripoff.

still want to blame yamato? sorry but i ain't on that bandwagon.

greedy sellers cashing in on the fans is who i blame. i know i'm pissing off mad vendors here but you know what, i just don't give a sh!t anymore. its not like you give a sh!t about me or anyone else, all you dudes give a sh!t about is money......say it ain't so.

theres nothing wrong with chasing money but i'm certainly not going to blame yamato because a vendo gouges us.

[Mechamaniac]

True to some extent, however, Yamato sets the MSRP for their items. Furthermore, they sell their items at a certain dealer cost and no lower, they do that so that they make money. You can only blame certain dealers so much for inflating their own profit margin because they know they can.

Bottom line, their toys cost more to the dealers hence they cost more for us.

As to the 89 dollar valkyries, remember that you're dealing with an exchange rate here too.

[big F]

Well the only way to get "cheap" ones is to get them yourself in Japan. Now you could say that the airfare and hotel bill would make it more expensive, so in that sense you arnt a winner, but if you only buy one or two a year just time your holiday to encompass your desired release.

True we all bend over when Yamato ask us to.

I`d like to say Im done with Yamato.

1. I dont care for the stands they look tacky. I`d sooner have John Moscato do one or some one like that do one and charge as much as Yamato. At least you `d get a good classy job.

2. The price increases suck. I know how R&D works I have worked in R&D in the past, you cant add your R&D on to the finnished product and justify it like they do. Im not an avid "Gotta get em all" Collector but can see how It would hurt the pocket if I was.

3. For $200 + bucks/pounds you could get one really nice custom made model kit, in a nice large size as is frequently demonstrated here by members ~ 1/72 Monster etc.

4. Did I read right that they are gonna charge the same for the 19 FP as they did for the 1/48 FP. WTF do you get two in the box or something or are they cast from Titanium and plated with gold.

5. My summer trip to Japan may well be Yamato free this time. Buck up or Hasegawa and Bandai will get all my cash.

6. "Just thinking If we build it they will buy it" is not gonna work for ever.

Edited February 13, 2007 by big F

[do not disturb]

True to some extent, however, Yamato sets the MSRP for their items. Furthermore, they sell their items at a certain dealer cost and no lower, they do that so that they make money. You can only blame certain dealers so much for inflating their own profit margin because they know they can.

Bottom line, their toys cost more to the dealers hence they cost more for us.

As to the 89 dollar valkyries, remember that you're dealing with an exchange rate here too.

i contacted HLJ about opening up a wholesale acct and got all the info straight from the horse mouth. IIRC, they charge between 30%-50% off the listed price on their site. theres nothing that says anything about how much a seller HAS to charge. its up to each individual seller how much or little they want to charge. if you want to question the validity, i ask that you contact HLJ yourself about opening up a wholesale acct.

whatever the case may be, yamato really isn't at fault.

as i said before a HK member paid $120($940HKD) for his YF-19 and he bought it from a B&M store where they have to actually pay rent, not like most of the US sellers that do it out of their home/garage.

as far as the $89 valks, that was converted from HKD to USD, so yes he really pays on average of $695 HKD which is about $89 USD per valk.

just because yamato sets the MSRP doesn't mean squat. every company out there sets MSRPs but that certainly doesn't mean everyone has follow it....or else. i'm sure yamato is to blame in some regards but lets be honest, its the sellers who are jacking up the prices, not yamato.

$120 in HK versus $205 in the US, you make the call.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Forget lowering the price (it'll never happen)---just stop making flawed stuff, so that it's worth the price they charge!

Yeah so long as the toy holds together, snaps firmly in place, has tight joints with materials that can take reasonable amount of abuse, the buyer is only limited to complaints about the toy and not the quality. It means you can still sell your yamato to another and get back a good price for it from another if you weren't happy.

But in the case of breakages and damage to the toy from normal wear and tear (just transforming it and having stress marks), it means you can't really feel safe buying one. The high prices I'm not a fan of, but the danger of something snapping and not having a fix for it, is the more worrying thing for me.

Fix those problems and they can still make thier big profit, just don't rush it and expect the first buyers to have to suffer because these are your most loyal fans. If you piss them off, they will be less likely to be return customers. The relationship with the customers is important. Even if a product is more expensive than it is worth, if a person feels like they are being taken care of and listened to, that extra peace of mind can still make up for an overpriced product.

I'm still giving them a chance depending on how sturdy future runs of thier VF-0, YF-19, and later stuff turns out, but until they get it close to vf-1 in satisfaction then I will be waiting waiting waiting. I'm not an early adopter of things generally, I see more sense in waiting for impressions and reviews before jumping in. Because I take the laid back approach, I have been able to avoid stuff like the toynami vf-1 MPC line and other things and not really let anger take hold such that I would swear off any future products. (if the company shows they are gradually making the improvements, then it's a wait and see thing for me rather than an indefinite boycott)

[Twoducks]

I agree in general with what most people are saying. We aren’t talking about how the toys look compared to the line art but about how someone f0cked up doing his job. A f*up that could have been avoided. And I’m not talking about the chinese slaves/ underpaid workers. These are design screw ups we are talking about.

I want to buy new Yamato Macross products. But good thing I haven’t done so with the new releases. Why? Because Yamato has made pretty clear how they do business:

Yamato first release = test sample at the expense of the buyer.

I WAS going to get the VF-0S but the general impression made me wait. And the VF-0A HAS IMPROVED on the design and the Shin version will improve more). Prices are very close yet one is better than the other. Same thing with the YF-19.

Prices aside… (well, not to much aside; the whole thin Fp+dildo priced as the meaty VF-1 FP is a slap on the face, a good way to make money but still a slap on the face); why bother buying a first release when the next one will be improved with better use of materials and corrected designs flaws? You can bet that in the future the YF-19 will have a locking mechanism for the upper torso.

Good luck to those that can’t resist first releases. I’ll have a hard time resisting the SV-51 but in the long run I’ll be happier with my purchase.

Wish Bandai started to make Macross stuff again. Competition between manufactures would give us better results than any king of protest or boycott.

Edited February 14, 2007 by Twoducks

[eugimon]

some people have been saying that the high yamato prices are not the fault of yamato but due to retailers marking the products up... while it is certainly true that retailers are middle men and do mark up prices, how do you know that yamato didn't the raise the wholesale prices first?

[Beware of Blast]

some people have been saying that the high yamato prices are not the fault of yamato but due to retailers marking the products up... while it is certainly true that retailers are middle men and do mark up prices, how do you know that yamato didn't the raise the wholesale prices first?

Yup, they know they're the only ones making the transforming VFs (Toynami is no competition) and their ever increasing prices show it. Yamato affect the lion share of the retail price.

Picture a small lawn pool crowded with kids and very little water... the FATTEST boy there is usually the problem.

[Graham]

i contacted HLJ about opening up a wholesale acct and got all the info straight from the horse mouth. IIRC, they charge between 30%-50% off the listed price on their site.

Usually with buying wholesale from Japan you will get between 30% to 35% off retail price. It doesn't vary more than that. I've also asked about this before.

When a wholesaler buys from Yamato (or any toy manufacturer) they are also getting a further discount. I'm not sure how much it is, but let's say 30% to 40%.

This means that Yamato is not getting mega bucks for each toy they sell. If a toy retails in Japan for US$100 for example, Yamato may only be selling it to the wholesaler for say US$40. Deduct the manufacturing cost from that and Yamato is only making a few bucks per toy.

The money is always in the volume, but Yamato toys are not historically high volume items, with production runs being far smaller than popular franchises like Transformers & Gundam.

Graham

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Assuming most people don't have a problem with the actual price of the toy (given how some people on MWB have 1/48 VF-1 valks in the double digits ) is there hope that (even if these are minor) problems like breaking arms (ie garland for megazone 23) will eventually be addressed in later runs?

The reason I ask is because if yamato say that the problem doesn't exist in japan, (and the us fans have no way of knowing) what incentive would there be to take the risk early on? I'm just assuming that yamato are not at fault and that they are "just as surprised" about the problem as people who found the toys with stress marks or had stuff break on them with little force applied. And that like the 1/72 hip breakages that happen after a time, these problems will be fixed later.

That is my greatest fear: you end up having to buy extra pieces for replacement the same way some people have to send thier busted early xbox to microsoft and end up paying for shipping or having the "fixed" unit break down again. As a result not many people like to be the reciever of a dud, regardless of whether it is anyone's fault because it ultimately means more risk for them.

Because of shipping, (and because of experiences I've had where the system broke down after 1 year warranty and had to pay more to get a replacement) I tend to think waiting is the best choice because it means you get the benefits of fixes. But if these fixes never come (in later runs of the yf-19 since the japanese don't have the probs for yamato to take the claims seriously) I may as well just buy the yf-19 right now. But if they do admit to the problems and announce publicly that they will improve on the first release, it makes more sense for us Importers who live outside japan to wait.

So what I want to know is: have yamato acknowledged our complaints? And in your personal opinion having seen stress marks on yours and experienced the dangers of broken tailfins in early vf-0 etc, would you recommend waiting? (when the review for the "yf-19 with fast packs bundle" is ready I will be looking for comments about any kind of improvements - I really do want a non-crooked gunpod release, just as we got less loose nosecones for vf-1)

For me it's a case of: "You can charge me a high price, but I hope to get as good a yf-19 as I can, selling any earlier runs off to get an improved one without any issues." It's more me than yamato. (as I see no reason to own everything in a line, or multiples of the same thing from different runs. Only stuff that interests me. My reasons have to partly do with: not having much space, tight budget, and generally being a tightass rather than because "I am angry" and didn't expect to see a few nitpicks in these early runs because of some assumption that problems like fragile areas that crack or stress wouldn't occur at all)

It's an important question to me because if the release is limited run and nobody buys the first run, (yamato then interprets this as "demand for it is low" and don't bother with a second release for a looooong time) it might risk making the toy more rare and the price goes even higher as scalpers see an opportunity to take advantage of the yf-19 being hard to find anymore and gouge even more! (look at the people who try to find low vis for example. I don't want to be in a situation like that for the 19)

It's not about value for me, as I understand that they are expensive otherwise I would not have gotten into the vf-1. It's more a question of: "how far can we push yamato to give us slight improvements over time so the toy is as close to flawless as we can get it?". If we assume there will be no improvements, then better to just eat the cost and get the 19 now than to wait. But it is $200 which for some is a "risk" if they have set thier expectations higher than normal (as a result of it being more expensive than 1/48 vf-1)

Edited February 14, 2007 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Phren]

huh, I'm wondering if it were possibe to get one of M-world's 'Agents' to become a wholesaler to filer down less inflated Valks to the community?

As for increasing prices, I can see a jump from the less complicated VF1's to the newer ones, but not to such a degree (and an ever increasing one). ~$45 for VF19 FPs?! that's two plastic plates and a non-moving ledkeychain equivalent? They sould have added the FPs to the toy originally for it's price - no question.

Edited February 14, 2007 by Phren

[Duymon]

I'm Very...Very hard pressed to buy a yammie in the US at all since I Started buying them in Japan.

I went on a rampage in Japan over the course of 2 weeks (I snuck off when my Fiance went to do wedding plannign things with her mom)

I got:

MIB NEW:

VF-1A CF 9120 Yen - 76.00 USD

VF-1a Max 8350 Yen - 69.58 USD

VF-1s Hikaru 10400 Yen - 86.67 USD

Fast Packs 4500 Yen - 37.50 USD

GBP Reg 9800 Yen - 81.67 USD

GBP Low Vis 8000 Yen - 66.67 USD

Discounted:

Half off Closing Sale:

Stealth 7490 Yen - 62.40 USD

Low Vis 2 7490 Yen - 62.40 USD

Used:

Fast Packs 3000 Yen - 25.00 USD

Damaged Box:

VF-1a CF 7800 Yen - 65.00 USD

Exchange rate helped since 1 USD is about 120 Yen and has been for the last 2 or so months, but I was just surprised to see why valks in the US cost 30-70 dollars more than what I paid for the same item.

It's prolly a culmination of the availability of 1/48 Yammies in Japan, not needing to go through HK distros and added shipping that make the cost in Japan seem so cheap. And about getting tickets to Japan? I have to go anyways once a year so that my soon-to-be wife doesn't go insane from homesickness, I hope everyone else can find a good excuse to go too har har.

Edited February 14, 2007 by Duymon

[do not disturb]

Usually with buying wholesale from Japan you will get between 30% to 35% off retail price. It doesn't vary more than that. I've also asked about this before.

When a wholesaler buys from Yamato (or any toy manufacturer) they are also getting a further discount. I'm not sure how much it is, but let's say 30% to 40%.

This means that Yamato is not getting mega bucks for each toy they sell. If a toy retails in Japan for US$100 for example, Yamato may only be selling it to the wholesaler for say US$40. Deduct the manufacturing cost from that and Yamato is only making a few bucks per toy.

The money is always in the volume, but Yamato toys are not historically high volume items, with production runs being far smaller than popular franchises like Transformers & Gundam.

Graham

wow someone who understands.

people keep thinking that because they pay $200 for one of their toys, yamato is getting all $200 of it when nothing could be further from the truth. this in turn makes people base their QC/design issues with the retail price instead of the actual cost of production. if it cost them XYZ dollars to produce, you can only expect XYZ dollars worth of effort.

yamato is partly to blame for the ever so slight price increases but sellers are cashing in every chance they get....and who really can blame them? if you were a seller, why would you charge less then what everyone says they're willing to pay?

thinking more about it, the way it see it...

pointing the finger at yamato makes no sense.

pointing the finger at sellers make some sense.

pointing the finger at over anxious buyers makes total sense.

_____________________________________________________________

huh, I'm wondering if it were possibe to get one of M-world's 'Agents' to become a wholesaler to filer down less inflated Valks to the community?

i tried to do this when i first got hooked on macross and realized i'm getting hosed on prices but people were too untrusting.

basically was willing do it all the work for free and simply divide the total cost of my invoice amongst everyone. but for whatever reason people would rather pay more, than show some faith/trust and pay $100 or less.....go figure? *shrug*

Edited February 15, 2007 by do not disturb

[Beware of Blast]

wow someone who understands.

people keep thinking that because they pay $200 for one of their toys, yamato is getting all $200 of it when nothing could be further from the truth. this in turn makes people base their QC/design issues with the retail price instead of the actual cost of production. if it cost them XYZ dollars to produce, you can only expect XYZ dollars worth of effort.

If this is true the retail (of any kind) business as we know it will implode and the economies dependant on retail sector would collapse. There is such a thing known as a higher "perceived value". That's how the MSRP of all the products that are old out there is generated. It enables the chain of businesses dependant on each other (from the maker to the retail chains to yer joe blow's mom & pop shop) to profit from a set market or retail price.

Yamato makes the call on how much their product is worth out there, proceeds to make a volume to fill a projected market that they think is gainfully profitable to them. They sell lower and lower to whoever are willing to carry more of their stuff. But the MSRP / Retail price / price point is ALWAYS there and Yamato must generate the promised product with the "perceived value" to match it. Otherwise, the whole exercise is pointless.

[Roy Focker]

Here's a solution if you think Yamato, the middle man or the seller is charging too much don't buy them item.

[Beware of Blast]

Heh, everybody just loves an easy way out don't we? I LOVE mirages as much as the next Macross fan and his pet dog... but a mirage is still a mirage. Let's not kid ourselves.

Edited February 15, 2007 by Beware of Blast

[do not disturb]

Yamato makes the call on how much their product is worth out there, proceeds to make a volume to fill a projected market that they think is gainfully profitable to them. They sell lower and lower to whoever are willing to carry more of their stuff. But the MSRP / Retail price / price point is ALWAYS there and Yamato must generate the promised product with the "perceived value" to match it. Otherwise, the whole exercise is pointless.

sorry but the customers make the call on what something is worth. if no one buying it, its not worth anything. its only worth something if people are actually buying it, if thats the price people are willing to pay for it.

if something costs $10 to make but has a higher preceived value(usually done through advertising which is not cheap), you expect it to be worth $200? is a louis vutton handbag really "worth" $3K?

you really think yamato comes up with the MSRP? sorry i think its on HLJ as they are the only distributors for yamato products. vendors and sellers also use HLJ to gauge prices for upcoming toys as thats where most of the US based vendors buy from.

its simple really, HLJ sets a pre-order price based on info gathered on various messageboards and the interest shown by its members, not just here but everywhere. that allows them to get first hand info from the end consumer, straight from mouths of the people who buy their products, thats the power of the internet.

if 1000 people say "i'll pay $200", HLJ puts up a preorder at $200, and 500 people place preorders at $200, you think they're going to lower the price even if it cost them $20 wholesale? why would they? why would any seller lower the price if that what people are willing to pay?

the YF-19 retailed at $120 USD in HK, yet we in the US ended up paying $200, an $80 price hike....how exactly is that yamatos fault?

[big F]

I'm Very...Very hard pressed to buy a yammie in the US at all since I Started buying them in Japan.

I went on a rampage in Japan over the course of 2 weeks

Yes thats usually the catalyst that makes you not want to pay extra to get them at home.

Conversion rates have been very kind to me and allowed me to buy Yamies and such for less than I`d usually pay for postage

[Godzilla]

I guess I should chime in as one of the large share holder of Yamato save for Lord Kungfu. Ok, back to being serious on the issue at hand. The prices of yammies are affected these factors:

1. Currency. USD vs Japanese Yen. USD has been weaker than the yen. Yamato is adjusting prices according to

2. Gaugers. The middleman stores are selling for the profit. As I see on ebay, ppl pay ungodly prices for a yammie. Folks like BBTS, tinsc, etc, makes their money and then some when they ppl on ebay pay those prices.

3. Shipping costs. They are higher. Energy prices are going thru roof and now subsided. Remember it cost money to ship the goods.

4. Customs Tax. Remember those dealers here in the US has to pay these taxes.

I dont understand why everyone complain about Yamato, middle man, sellers etc. Good lord folks, it is a free market. If you dont like the price, dont buy it. People you need to accept the price or move on. If you see all the warning signs and ignore it and then you get bitten on the butt and biatch about it, you are not getting any sympathy from me on this. If you know that the 1st production is gonna suck then do not buy it. That simple. I dont believe there is a conspiracy theory that the Yamato is raping us. I dont buy it. They have been more responsive to us the fans and come out with products. People on this board are too snobbish. They b!tch why should I pay that much for that. And yet we get a more than decent toy such as the yf-19 in 1/60. People nick pick this and that. Good god ppl, if you only knew what was going on in the real world of manufacturing, you'd flip. I worked for Boeing and you wanna know what? The things and problems I can tell, you all would so damn afraid to fly you would need a new change of underwear on your next flight.

Also, I notice ppl b!tch about say Toydeals888 (Jason). He charges a little higher price but his shipping is way lower. Then people complain he is higher than HLJ or some HK folks yet the shipping cost is like $40 from those stores. Toydeals total cost including shipping is way cheaper than most HK folks (who were initially cheaper) when you include the shipping. I mean, you all look at the initial price? WTH? I look at everything total cost which includes shipping, inital price, customs tax, etc. If you delude yourself saying you bought this yammie for $100 yet you pay $40 shipping, be glad you dont run a business. Now if you want it now now, then that is your own problem. I am more than willing to wait to get the cheaper price.

In general, everyone is seeing their own pocketbook but goddamn it we get so narrow minded we lose sight of everything. No one here looks at the bigger picture. Do you know how run a business? Do you look at the overall cost of storing, transporting, taxes and whatnot? No, you look at the damn price and cry like a baby about your wallet. If you need to buy a toy or feed your family, you should know what to do. If not, I pity you. Everyone knows in this hobby it will be expensive. If you can't take, maybe you need to find another hobby.

I know I am gonna be accused of being a fanboy for Yamato and quite frankly, I don't give a rip what you think. If I am being insensitive, tough shiet. I am taking a look at this objectively and giving you my view. And let me tell you what, I am being way more than objective that most ppl on this board.

EDIT: for grammar and spelling mistakes.

Edited February 15, 2007 by Godzilla