1/60 YF-19 Fast Packs & Fold Booster

[eugimon]

The YF-19 is probably second only to the VF-1 itself, in how much it's liked by MW overall. And there's some pretty big flaws. Not QC issues, flat-out bad design. And they charged a lot for it. As for the armor? It should have been free, included with the -19, for that price---like the VF-0's. Sell the fold booster separately if they want to gouge us. But 4 pieces of hollow grey plastic? That should have been in the basic package, especially since there's no missiles included.

Basically---when probably the most highly-anticipated new valk in years has issues, you can bet there'll be an exponentially higher amount of battying.

There will be less battying about the Sv-51. Why? A lot fewer people like it, so fewer will buy it. And even fewer like it enough to "risk" a first release purchase. We'll hear about its issues, but not to the extent of the -19.

If you release something that people have been drooling over for years, and you are the only manufacturer--try not to have crooked gunpods and wheels on EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM.

Sorry Graham, I have to go with David on this one. When I placed my pre-order for the YF-19, I didn't KNOW that the gunpod would be crooked, that the rear landing gear was going to be half assed and I especially didn't know that there would be a fast pack gift set sold later on. This is why I won't buy a first release yamato product ever again.. they don't give us information to make an informed decision.. and lately, I feel like I've been left holding the bag.

It's great that yamato will send out free replacement garlands.. but who cares if they all have busted shoulders? It's great that yamato is replacing the VF-0 shoulders, but FRAK! they shouldn't have to replace those shoulders in the first place. And yes, goodie that yamato is going to fix the flaws on the yf-19 for the next release (unlike toynami who just kept releasing one crap alpha after another) but again.. when I paid for mine, I expected a finished toy... not one that I would have to dismantle and drill or glue bits of plastic on.

This isn't like the back pack hinges on the /148s... or those people who complained about yamato not releasing every head variant with the 1/48s. I love my 1/48s... but I love them because they were good to go right out of the box. yes yes, there were crooked skulls and yes they made improvements on the design.. but those were IMPROVEMENTS not fixes to design frak ups. Now, maybe to some, a crooked gunpod and the landing gear aren't a big deal.. they aren't to me... in fact, I think the fuselage thing is being played out of proportion...And I'm not mad or complaining about the high price point on the YF-19 either... yamato can charge what they want to charge and we as consumers decide to pay it or not. Including these fast packs, whatever. I won't buy the stand alone set, but maybe I'll pick up a bundle later on...

But after the the garland and then after the VF-0... I don't have patience anymore with yamato. Get it right the first time and people won't complain. And until they do get it right, I'm going to stand up for MY right as a consumer, when I pay full price for a brand new item, it should be free of manufacturer goofs.

[Dobber]

Gotta stand with David and Eugimon on this one too.

But as you said Graham, I will also exercise my right as a consumer and just not buy the fast packs too. 1st releases are just getting too hit or miss anymore as well.

I would also like it if they would actually give us some sort of release schedule like some else already said so I may make an informed decision with my purchases. I'm glad they are making an SV-51 and I'd really like one but with current prices coupled with current quality I have reservations. But I also don't want to miss out on a DD paint scheme. Plus I'd also like to buy a VF-11 if that ever happens, but with no info and spotty QC (at best) 'm just not sure If I should just spend my money else where. Problem is Yamato is the pretty much the only game in town for nice "looking" Macross toys.

Chris

[Lonely Soldier Boy]

Agreed. Is not that simple as "don't buy it" (unless you mean stop buying Yamato toys altogether). The boys are right: Yamato IS hiding information from the consumers. Not only we didn't know there was to be a bundle, we also didn't know that the toys will have all those flaws, but Yamato did.

I was completely convinced that this first release was going to have a lot of problems, I just knew it, so I decided to skip it. But most people still expect more from Yamato.

I can't talk for the rest of the guys here, but I'm not here to rant. When I complain I hope that by doing so, Yamato will pick up the glove and make better toys and marketing decisions, so we all be happy.

[TheLoneWolf]

I sure hope that coloring on the fold booster isn't final.

To get a anime accurate colors I made some screencaps from the R2 of Macross Plus (the R1's colors have been oversaturated and contain lots of artifacts, thanks Manga!). The fold booster appears to be a gun-metal grey with a tint of green. Yamato seems to be taking it from the opposite direction by coloring it green with a gun-metal tint. How quickly they forget that the Purple People Eater, aka the YF-21 FP, sold poorly because no one likes their mecha sporting fruity colors. Ok, transfans do, but they're the exception.

Just noticed that the YF-19's gunpod does seem small in fighter mode, looks like Yamato got that one right after all! Also noticed that the fold booster glows red while folding, weird.

[eugimon]

I don't know... the yamato green looks pretty spot on in the middle picture you put up.

I wonder if the LED will make the entire clear cone glow red like it is in the anime?

[Beware of Blast]

It's suppose to glow white (pre-fold) to red (fold). Hey, maybe they're incorporating some smart lighting color change device inside? Probably that's why it's expensive - just guessing.

[eugimon]

It's suppose to glow white (pre-fold) to red (fold). Hey, maybe they're incorporating some smart lighting color change device inside? Probably that's why it's expensive - just guessing.

well, that would answer my smart ass questin (why is it worth 50 bucks?) quite nicely.

I'll pick up a bundled version if that's the case... especially if it is the case that all the clear bits glow through like in the anime...

I don't know why that makes me happy... I'm usually not that excited about light up gimmicks on my toys.

[Beware of Blast]

well, that would answer my smart ass questin (why is it worth 50 bucks?) quite nicely.

I'll pick up a bundled version if that's the case... especially if it is the case that all the clear bits glow through like in the anime...

I don't know why that makes me happy... I'm usually not that excited about light up gimmicks on my toys.

Since we're guessing here, if they added a vibrating device also on top of that lighting change gimmick, that would be quite a decent attempt. The '19 does vibrate and warp in shape during fold in the anime... besides, a vibrating '19 in toy form will be heavier than when it's static - so we can have the illusion than the damn thing ACTUALLY has diecast metal and heft to it!

[Graham]

The boys are right: Yamato IS hiding information from the consumers. Not only we didn't know there was to be a bundle, we also didn't know that the toys will have all those flaws, but Yamato did.

Yamato is not hiding information. The gunpod flaw was not known until I got probably one of the very first production toys, opened it and immediatly pointed it out to Yamato. By that time it was too late and the toys were already on their way to the various wholesalers.

With the bundle set, Yamato was also not hiding anything either. The descision to release a bundle set was only made recently, i.e. about a month ago. Originaly it was not planned, but as soon as Yamato decided to do it, I got the news and announced it in my newsletter of Jan-14-2007.

Graham

[Beware of Blast]

Yamato is not hiding information. The gunpod flaw was not known until I got probably one of the very first production toys, opened it and immediatly pointed it out to Yamato. By that time it was too late and the toys were already on their way to the various wholesalers.

With the bundle set, Yamato was also not hiding anything either. The descision to release a bundle set was only made recently, i.e. about a month ago. Originaly it was not planned, but as soon as Yamato decided to do it, I got the news and announced it in my newsletter of Jan-14-2007.

Graham

Ha! Bad, bad QC and planning and fly-by-night marketing. Straight from the horse's mouth.

[David Hingtgen]

Green-to-red LED's are VERY cheap and simple. That's why they're the on/off status indicator on so many electronics--go look at a PS2. It's been around for decades. You can go to Radio Shack and get a bunch cheap. And I could wire up the circuit myself in 30 secs to make it switch colors. (And if you get really fancy, you can get the tri-color red/green/yellow LED's for slightly more money)

And also, the switch/circuit to make it change colors, is almost identical, and VERY VERY VERY easily integrated into an on/off switch like you'll find on any electronic toy.

Anyways----somebody, somewhere, changed something to make the YF-19 gunpod not fit. Molds don't just mysteriously change themselves, yet the prototypes didn't have that problem. Also, "it was too late" means they don't check FINAL production versions---just "near final"---which isn't good enough. The very first one off the line would have shown the gunpod problem, but that didn't matter, as they were shipping them all immediately since the PREVIOUS version didn't have any gunpod problems.

[jenius]

OOOoh I didn't realize this thread had devolved into a good ol' fashion hate fest. Lemme go grab my pitch fork and torch....

Okay guys, I'm back, where's that Yamato... Let's get 'em!!!

Every now-and-then, when the hate really starts festering, I kinda wonder if it isn't just all the people who are realizing they spend way too much money on toys (and don't think I'm passing judgment, I'd be included in this group) projecting their anger of their inability to stop onto the company providing the goods. I mean really, if everyone was so incensed about Yamato's prices or Yamato's quality we wouldn't sit on boards and snivel and try to convince people that sniveling is the right thing to do. We'd actually just say "Meh, I'm over it." If you've said in one thread "I'm not going to buy Yamato products any more because they keep letting me down." That's a fair statement, good for you. When you continually post that sentiment you're just posturing or trying to get people to join you to make you feel better about your decision. Anyway, that's my musing today on the self-conscious... and again, it's directed at myself as much as anyone else.

[recon]

Lets not too carried away with the yamato bashing thingy ...like what graham said if you feel uncomfortable with purchasing a toy with defects, you can refrain from getting it till a corrected and improved version come along...like what im doing now. Afterall despite the lousy QC, some design errors, yamato have since from the beginning produce beautiful, transforming toys for the macross line. Even though they have been 6 years in the business, they would never of bandai's equal in terms of QC, design and plastics used.

[hirohawa]

It's funny how long people where claomoring for the 19 to come out and now everyone is complaining about it.

Mine looks great and has none of the problems listed. I look forward to adding the Booster/FP set and also buying the bundles version.

Remember we have gotten basically zilch form any toy company in terms of new valkyries going back to Takatoku almost 25 years ago. Bandai added strike/elint/ostrch packs but the valk was not changed. Also those crappy bandai versions of the fire valkries really blew.

I think Yamato has spoiled us and we forget the decades long drought from "we love Gundma "Bandai.

[kanedaestes]

I agree i love mine two. there is only one thing on mine that bothered me and that was the loose wing joint, but i have learned to fix and work around that. The wheels don't bother me much cause they are rarely out, and the gunpod doesn't bother me much but then it wasn't that bad. I can understand the anger but as many have said before instead of battying don't buy, nuff said. When other releases come out just simply don't buy them.

[Beware of Blast]

Even though they have been 6 years in the business, they would never of bandai's equal in terms of QC, design and plastics used.

This is more of an end by choice made by the company rather than circumstantial outcome. There are so many other small time companies out there competing with the big boys at same street price levels like Maxfactory, Softgarage, Marmit, Aoshima, Kaiyodo, Kotobukiya etc... Of course, you could say they don't make transforming toys like Yamato.

But we're talking about BUILD QUALITY and FINISHING here. Had any of these people undertake Macross VFs as their project, the materials used will certainly be in tandem with the demands of the job.

[myk]

It's funny how long people where claomoring for the 19 to come out and now everyone is complaining about it.

Mine looks great and has none of the problems listed. I look forward to adding the Booster/FP set and also buying the bundles version.

Remember we have gotten basically zilch form any toy company in terms of new valkyries going back to Takatoku almost 25 years ago. Bandai added strike/elint/ostrch packs but the valk was not changed. Also those crappy bandai versions of the fire valkries really blew.

I think Yamato has spoiled us and we forget the decades long drought from "we love Gundma "Bandai.

I've stayed away from the ranting and complaining, but I can't let this one pass...

1. Funny? We were clamoring for a '19 that wasn't problematic, certainly not a Do-it-yourself-variable fighter that we've had to cumulatively spend hundreds of hours modding. Where is the humor in that? You think that's funny?

2. Ok, so your '19 came from the factory WITHOUT the crooked gunpod or landing gear that doesn't deploy completely or the stress marks on that grey joint/hinge thingy? I'll bet you one of my cars that isn't the case. And even if your '19 did come from the factory with no defects, somehow the rest of us are just supposed to shut up and ignore the problems we've had to deal with just because YOU got lucky?

3. It's your money to blow, so buy the foldildo and all of the stupid single-stripe, jungle-camo, all grey, all black, all blue, Dukes of Hazzard variants of the '19 that Yamato will come up with-I'm glad someone's got money to throw away on nonsense.

4. So, because no one other than Yamato and Bandai have developed variable-fighters we're just supposed to accept what they dish out, regardless of any issues we may have with the products? And those Bandai valkyries that you so easily dismissed NEVER, EVER had any QC issues that anyone can remember during the 20 or so years of their production. Hell, even their BOOTLEGS don't have a considerable history of defects over the last 20 years.

5. You gotta' love the 'ol "Remember the Macross drought so love whatever comes our way now" mentality. That's alot like this gif, just pretend it's Yamato instead of Sony:

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/im...lshit_anim4.gif

Yeah, the whining and complaining, although justified, is out of control and ridiculous, but the "Yamato-can-do-no-wrong" as well as the sympathizer/apologizer types are equally ridiculous if not more so....

Edited February 15, 2007 by myk

[sidearmsalpha]

Yamato is not hiding information. The gunpod flaw was not known until I got probably one of the very first production toys, opened it and immediatly pointed it out to Yamato. By that time it was too late and the toys were already on their way to the various wholesalers.

With the bundle set, Yamato was also not hiding anything either. The descision to release a bundle set was only made recently, i.e. about a month ago. Originaly it was not planned, but as soon as Yamato decided to do it, I got the news and announced it in my newsletter of Jan-14-2007.

Graham

Sorry to get off topic, but has Graham announced when he was going to put up the responses he got back from his meeting with Yamato on Feb. 5th?

[Dante74]

Sorry to get off topic, but has Graham announced when he was going to put up the responses he got back from his meeting with Yamato on Feb. 5th?

He was too drunk to remember any meeting so he won't post any responses.

Actually, he stated that there isn't that much to report on, cause the Yamato rep. was kinda tired from the journey and they just ate and drank a lot.

[Mowe]

When Yamato put out a nice product, positive comments are posted;

When Yamato makes mistakes, negative comments are posted.

It is as simple as that. No hate fest, no sniveling.

When people first reported the loose joint problems with VF-0S, there were people kept telling us: "what problem, mine is perfect, it is a minor problem, don't like the toy, don't buy it, stop b itching".

Well, it turned out that there were problems. Had Yamato received no complaints, do you think they would fix the problems in the following issue?

God help us if everyone is carrying the same attitude of "put up or shut up"... sigh ....

Edited February 15, 2007 by Mowe

[eugimon]

Yamato is not hiding information. The gunpod flaw was not known until I got probably one of the very first production toys, opened it and immediatly pointed it out to Yamato. By that time it was too late and the toys were already on their way to the various wholesalers.

With the bundle set, Yamato was also not hiding anything either. The descision to release a bundle set was only made recently, i.e. about a month ago. Originaly it was not planned, but as soon as Yamato decided to do it, I got the news and announced it in my newsletter of Jan-14-2007.

Graham

Graham... this information just furthers my resolve to not buy any more first release yamatos.

The fact that you, a non yamato employee, knew BEFORE yamato about a manufacturing defect does not fill me with confidence. And if yamato does not know what products they're going to release month to month, I certainly shouldn't put money aside for them, only to receive products that break or in the very least, less bang for my buck.

At least with the Stealth, yamato told us that there would be two versions packaged... why can't THAT marketing guy be in charge of future releases?

[AlphaOne]

Wow, whereas this issue used to unite us, it now divides us...

Graham, it seems that when you can't divulge information, people are upset. And when you do provide information, people are upset. It reminds me of a Futurama episode. (insert Graham for God - not trying to offend anyone btw.)

God: Bender, being God isn't easy. If you do too much, people get dependent on you. And if you do nothing, they lose hope. You have to use a light touch, like a safecracker or a pickpocket.

Bender: Or a guy who burns down a bar for the insurance money.

God: Yes, if he makes it look like an electrical thing. If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.

[TheLoneWolf]

Since the crooked landing gears was a planned decision, is the Fast Pack bundle is going to feature the same "problem?"

4) Rear landing Gear unable to cant outwards. This was a design decision by the factory, not a QC problem, therefore not a genuine issue. It is easily modified by those that desire outwarded canted rear landing gear.

Graham

[Lonely Soldier Boy]

Yamato is not hiding information. The gunpod flaw was not known until I got probably one of the very first production toys, opened it and immediatly pointed it out to Yamato. By that time it was too late and the toys were already on their way to the various wholesalers.

With the bundle set, Yamato was also not hiding anything either. The descision to release a bundle set was only made recently, i.e. about a month ago. Originaly it was not planned, but as soon as Yamato decided to do it, I got the news and announced it in my newsletter of Jan-14-2007.

Graham

Thanks for clarify on that, Graham.

I assumed that Yamato knew all this from the beginning. My mistake.

Still, I hope that all the complains reaches the ears of the people at Yamato so we can keep buying their products with confidence.

Edit: Grammar.

Edited February 15, 2007 by Lonely Soldier Boy

[Dampiel]

This is more of an end by choice made by the company rather than circumstantial outcome. There are so many other small time companies out there competing with the big boys at same street price levels like Maxfactory, Kaiyodo,

But we're talking about BUILD QUALITY and FINISHING here.

I've yet to get a toy made by either Kaiyodo or Maxfactory that didn't have problems.Still neat toys but not good companys to use in that analogy.

[gian7675]

Hmmm...I was just wondering if fans stopped buying the first release runs of a Yamato's product and would wait for a second release...this would mean fewer sales for Yamato...so...would Yamato even consider releasing the same product on a second run?

It's kind of a predicament. "Buy our non-quality first release products now so that we can release a 2nd run of the same product with better/quality or we will not release a second run at all due to poor sales"

I didn't buy any first release Yamato products because I've read from the past here in MW about Yamato's habit of releasing poor quality products on it's first run so better wait for the second run.

I'll still hoping that Yamato will make a Low Viz version of the YF-19 and theoretically, even though it'll be a first run release of a color variant of the YF-19, it'll be actually a kind of second run because Yamato has already seen the flaws (and hopefully acted on the complaints on the initial run of the YF-19).

[eugimon]

that's an interesting question... and honestly, I hope that more people will put off buying 1st release yamato toys.. maybe that will force yamato to make better engineering and manufacturing decisions... like not using cheap materials on expensive products.

[Fly4victory]

For those of us in America, I doubt we would effect Yamato much since they do not target this market or provide parts support. Unless you get parts support from the retailer.

If those countries that had macross products sent directly such action may have the desired effect or Yamato could just stop production.

that's an interesting question... and honestly, I hope that more people will put off buying 1st release yamato toys.. maybe that will force yamato to make better engineering and manufacturing decisions... like not using cheap materials on expensive products.

[Aegis!]

eugimon

Graham... this information just furthers my resolve to not buy any more first release yamatos.

The fact that you, a non yamato employee, knew BEFORE yamato about a manufacturing defect does not fill me with confidence. And if yamato does not know what products they're going to release month to month, I certainly shouldn't put money aside for them, only to receive products that break or in the very least, less bang for my buck.

At least with the Stealth, yamato told us that there would be two versions packaged... why can't THAT marketing guy be in charge of future releases?

David Hingtgen

Anyways----somebody, somewhere, changed something to make the YF-19 gunpod not fit. Molds don't just mysteriously change themselves, yet the prototypes didn't have that problem. Also, "it was too late" means they don't check FINAL production versions---just "near final"---which isn't good enough. The very first one off the line would have shown the gunpod problem, but that didn't matter, as they were shipping them all immediately since the PREVIOUS version didn't have any gunpod problems.

I´m sure Graham must be pissed-off by now because of all the complaining and battyin` and he´s probably right in being so, but eugimon & David Hingtgen both make a pretty good point here.

This kind of products are BOUND to have all sort of problems, there´s no denying that, and I don´t blame Yamato for having a tough time producing this toys after all this time, but what cannot be tolerated is for Yamato to waste time before they release these toys and not check wheter they´re perfect before shipping.

It´s just a matter of looking at how rapidly they´ve been releasing toys for the last 2 years, I´t been a long time since i last remember waiting more than 6-8 months for a new yamato toy to be released. They´ve been spewing toys without taking their time to check whether they had any issues. I don´t think it´s beneficial for them to waste money on defective molds the first time around and worse yet, have marginal profits from first runs beucause people know they´re flawed.

[Beware of Blast]

For those of us in America, I doubt we would effect Yamato much since they do not target this market or provide parts support. Unless you get parts support from the retailer.

If those countries that had macross products sent directly such action may have the desired effect or Yamato could just stop production.

That's the whole point of the b*tching and moaning. WE ARE NOT IN CONTROL. If everyone just make a stand for a better quality product, we can still have a win-win situation.

[Uxi]

I will get this version with the FP and booster IF the gunpod and landing gear issue is fixed. I've passed so far...

[hirohawa]

I've stayed away from the ranting and complaining, but I can't let this one pass...

1. Funny? We were clamoring for a '19 that wasn't problematic, certainly not a Do-it-yourself-variable fighter that we've had to cumulatively spend hundreds of hours modding. Where is the humor in that? You think that's funny?

2. Ok, so your '19 came from the factory WITHOUT the crooked gunpod or landing gear that doesn't deploy completely or the stress marks on that grey joint/hinge thingy? I'll bet you one of my cars that isn't the case. And even if your '19 did come from the factory with no defects, somehow the rest of us are just supposed to shut up and ignore the problems we've had to deal with just because YOU got lucky?

3. It's your money to blow, so buy the foldildo and all of the stupid single-stripe, jungle-camo, all grey, all black, all blue, Dukes of Hazzard variants of the '19 that Yamato will come up with-I'm glad someone's got money to throw away on nonsense.

4. So, because no one other than Yamato and Bandai have developed variable-fighters we're just supposed to accept what they dish out, regardless of any issues we may have with the products? And those Bandai valkyries that you so easily dismissed NEVER, EVER had any QC issues that anyone can remember during the 20 or so years of their production. Hell, even their BOOTLEGS don't have a considerable history of defects over the last 20 years.

5. You gotta' love the 'ol "Remember the Macross drought so love whatever comes our way now" mentality. That's alot like this gif, just pretend it's Yamato instead of Sony:

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/im...lshit_anim4.gif

Yeah, the whining and complaining, although justified, is out of control and ridiculous, but the "Yamato-can-do-no-wrong" as well as the sympathizer/apologizer types are equally ridiculous if not more so....

1. You should look up "funny" in the dictionary - many words have more than one meaning and usage - crazy I know.

2. OK I'll take one of your cars although it will have to get street parking as I am not giving up my garage for one of your rides.

3. Thanks for your permission.

4. Bandai and Takatoku are built like tanks but they are piss-poor for accuracy and poseabilty. They don't even include pilots.

5. Thanks. Very thought provoking - Yamato craps all over us you are right.

[Graham]

I've yet to get a toy made by either Kaiyodo or Maxfactory that didn't have problems.Still neat toys but not good companys to use in that analogy.

Ditto. I've had problems with Kaiyodo and Maxfactory toys. Heck, I've even had problems with quite a few Bandai toys over the years, including breakage prone parts, missing parts and bad paint applications. Yamato is far from the only company with toys with the occasional problems.

Heck, software developers are far worse than toy companies about releasing products before they are ready and properly tested. More often than not new software is bug-ridden right out of the box and requires multiple patches before they work.

Graham

[indigofx28]

so are your preproduction sample specially made better?!?

Ditto. I've had problems with Kaiyodo and Maxfactory toys. Heck, I've even had problems with quite a few Bandai toys over the years, including breakage prone parts, missing parts and bad paint applications. Yamato is far from the only company with toys with the occasional problems.

Heck, software developers are far worse than toy companies about releasing products before they are ready and properly tested. More often than not new software is bug-ridden right out of the box and requires multiple patches before they work.

Graham

[kensei]

so are your preproduction sample specially made better?!?

I'd tone down the cheek in your post mate. You've made your point, you've battyed enough, no punching below the belt at the man that has worked so hard in getting our voice across to Yamato.

Edited February 16, 2007 by kensei