Transformers Super Thread 5

[Fit For Natalie]

Yes but where is all this info coming from? I'd just like to see some verification just to be sure. The only official things I heard were from the botcon reports last year, and the only updates to those will be at botcon this year. Did Kyde say any of this at allspark? I know he worked, or works for hasbro.

I think we all know this was a mass market line through and through and though it was filler, many of us loved it. Nonetheless, none of us can be blamed for being dissapointed. The remaining 3 seekers would not have costed much to release in retail and to cover the cost of the new wing tooling, as much as they did for the botcon set. Remember, all Thundercracker would have been was a blue repaint. Sure the retailers might not have bitten but still there are ways to have put the figures in stores somehow.

I was shocked yesterday and thought that perhaps it was an april fools joke, till I realized that all the orders were being faxed in and that it couldn't be a mere joke.

Naturally there's no verification, official or unofficial. What it boils down to is logic, and educated guesses based upon past actions, past comments made by Hasbro.

Walky has said the same thing about the unlikelyhood of them being released, and he's good friends with Kyde, and friends with some other Hasbro people in the TF team.

Actually the extent of retooling Ramjet/Starscream's tooling into Thrust and Dirge would have neccessitated two new toolings. Hasbro has stated that surface retools (such as the removal of a faction logo) just modifies the existing tooling, but new parts require an all-new tooling.

So with that said, I am very dissapointed. Sunstorm would have been a good exclusive, nice to have, but not something people would beg for in the main line. But the remaining 3 seekers? Nah.

What they could have done was made another battle pack of cybertron downshift as wheeljack vs thundercracker. Then have Dirge, and Thrust in a wave with a grey astrotrain. It costs money to tool new wings, and you can bet hasbro would have gotten more money from domestic and international mass market release with those things rather than a under 1000 count at botcon by collectors. Not to mention kept most of us happy.

I don't know what made people angrier, the SDCC nemesis prime alternator, or completely making the last 3 seekers(along with 2 other repaints most of us might not really want nor remember) into botcon exclusives that will cost $329 to those not attending(which is most of us).

Knowing that those seekers could have been $10 each at retail infuriates most of us and it can't be helped nor blamed.

I can only hope we get these as retailer exclusives later on but is that likely? As of recent events, I doubt it.

What you propose is too many repaints within a short period of time with retailers who are looking beyond to the movie line onslaught. It is unlikely they would have been interested, and they didn't ask for an exclusive TF product (sometimes exclusives are offered, or requested by the retailer).

As for sales, maybe, maybe not. It would cost Hasbro a hell of alot of money (if retailers were willing) to sell the remaining seekers at retail. What happens if they didn't sell? Most of these toys aren't bought by us, and not every average parent is going to buy all 6 planes (or 5, discounting Skywarp) for their kids.

Australia had loads of Nemesis Prime at retail, and nobody wanted it. When pics first surfaced, people were bellowing about how unimaginative he was. Then he was revealed to be an exclusive, and suddenly everybody wanted the lazy repaint, and they were mad as hell when they couldn't get the toy they had previously slagged off.

I'd be pleasantly surprised if Hasbro released a slightly different releases of these toys, but I'd rather not hope for the unlikely.

Maybe they could have done a 3 Seeker set exclusive to Target or something. Problem solved and almost $300 less?

No they couldn't. When there is already a standard-release carded Jet Dude, with a slightly retooled Jet Dude on pegs, Target wouldn't want another exclusive with three more Jet Dudes, not would anybody else, really, as even though these would be restricted to their exclusive stores, that would mean 6 of (more or less) the same toy on the market, and sales of one or the other would just suffer in the long run.

There is NO reason that Thundercracker couldn't have been released as a HTS.com exclusive. ANYTHING is better than a Botcon exclusive.

The blame lies with both Hasbro and Botcon since apparently FP came up with the seeker idea and Hasbro ran with it. Thanks for shafting most of the fans, FP.

Hasbro Toy Shop sells too few units for Hasbro to bother making an exclusive run of Thundercrackers for it.

Even Alt Nemesis Prime was made in considerably greater quantities than people realized. Australia became a dumping ground of Nemesis Primes last year.

As I pointed out, as it would have been highly unlikely that Hasbro would have made those toys anyway, all parties figured this would be the only way those characters would ever see the light of day within the near future in toy form.

Before anybody says anything, Titaniums can get away with several repaints of WW Thundercracker in the same line because those figures are usually shipped once in their assortment, and don't appear again afterwards. And as a collector-aimed line, they have lower production numbers

[HoveringCheesecake]

Limited runs are a problem for Hasbro Toy Shop? I disagree. They have plenty Star Wars exclusives, and so does StarWarsShop.com. And these exclusives just happen to be repaints... (501st Stormtrooper, Shadow Stormtrooper, Covert Ops Clonetrooper, etc) Don't tell me Hasbro doesn't have the capability to make TC an online exclusive, because there is no reason they couldn't.

And as for TC being "unlikely"... yeah sorry I'm not buying it.

Edited April 5, 2007 by meh_cd

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

Nonetheless I remain dissapointed that I, and most of us will not be able to get those seekers. Sure titanium might be aimed towards collectors but I'm of the opinion most of us(whom are collectors) bought more classics than titanium. I don't know about the rest but in my area classics sells faster, and titaniums shelfwarm at walmart. I can't tell you how many optimal optimus's and scourges I have seen.

Point is, IF hasbro sold the rest of the the 3 seekers at retail, they would have higher production runs than the botcon exclusives, and thus they would be able to make more money back. Remember there are only going to be a limited number of the botcon sets. Sure maybe some retailers would not have bitten who knows.

At the end of the day I don't think most of us can say we are happy and have a smile on our face. Of course it all boils down to business but I'm not going to lie and say I love what just happened. I am not willing to spend 2-300$ for 3 toys that I could, yes COULD have bought at retail for $30 + tax. And the bug dude and jetfire remold? I could live without them.

Hasbro did internet exclusives before and still does to this day. The Kir Kanos star wars pack, the gijoe bat box 6 pack and such. Not exclusive to HTS but exclusive to online stores.

And we won't know till botcon if any retailers requested or were offered exclusives.

Sure the seekers are the same toys but they are all different characters. Someone explain to me why power ranger figures of the same costumes but different color continue to sell at retail without sales of one or the other affecting each other. And someone tell me how this is able to happen every year.

Perhaps its the same premise, same toy, similar deco but different paints, but different character.

There is hope. If takara ever gets classics, perhaps they can use the botcon molds to make the rest of the seeker team. Not to mention a g1color megatron. If they are willing to reintroduce beast wars I am sure they are up for classics.

And yea a lot of us in the US were mad when we found out that nemesis prime was readily available overseas while we got shafted here.

[David Hingtgen]

Just look at the zillions of repaints for many BW and RiD/Armada toys. Hell, there's more TransMetal 1 Cheetor repaints than there are seekers I think---and they sold! (Personally, I thought the TRU-exclusive FoxKids repaint was cool, and it's the only version I have). If stuff like THAT sells, there surely should be room for major characters like Thundercracker. Heck, they could even use Skywarp's paint pattern to save money, just in different colors.

How many repaints of Armada Prime are there?

[Hoptimus]

Yeah I really wanted the rest of the Classics seekers.

I bought an extra Skywarp vs Magnus set. Gonna make a ThunderCracker and a Nemesis Prime.

Now onto todays news.

GOT MP5 Megatron!!

Man I love the bot mode. Finally a Megatron that looks almost like Anime Megs and can transform(no I havent yet. Have you seen the book? Jeebus he has alot of flippy twisty parts)

Goes great with Mp1 Optimus!

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

Just look at the zillions of repaints for many BW and RiD/Armada toys. Hell, there's more TransMetal 1 Cheetor repaints than there are seekers I think---and they sold! (Personally, I thought the TRU-exclusive FoxKids repaint was cool, and it's the only version I have). If stuff like THAT sells, there surely should be room for major characters like Thundercracker. Heck, they could even use Skywarp's paint pattern to save money, just in different colors.

How many repaints of Armada Prime are there?

EXACTLY! And they are all the same character, and some versions costed more! And seriously only a few of the titaniums even appeal to collectors, its definitely a hit or miss line and the materials and supposed lower numbers in production make it cost more.

Classics is more appealing to me and most tf fans.

I'd rather see someone like Sunstorm be a repaint as a botcon exclusive, not Thundercracker. And Sunstorm's colors are much closer to classics starscream than thundercracker ever would have been.

Our best hope is that takara makes classics for japan using the botcon seekers as well.

Fact is there could have been other classics characters to make using other toys. The energon aerialbot limbs, the A-10 molds could have been painted as Powerglide. The helicopter mold from the constructicon team could have been repainted and retooled into Whirl. Vector Prime with a new head and paint could have easily been Vector Sigma and still fit in quite well with classics and the g1 mythos. Bulkhead from energon could have been repainted into Springer, hell him or EVAC could work as Springer. Swoop could have been Swoop from the energon set but repainted in g1 colors(not to mention the only reason a lot of people bought that set was for swoop). List can go on and on.

[M'Kyuun]

Hasbro certainly has never been shy about peddling repaints. TF and SW both see the repaint treatment over and over. Thundercracker should have been a sure bet. It's odd that they took the time and expenditure to produce only one of the "conehead" seekers without following through with the remaining two. Thrust was on my wish list(love the VTOL wings). Funny, I didn't like the Classics seeker design much until I finally broke down and bought Starscream. The plane still looks ungainly with the bulky undercarriage, but the bot form captures the look nicely. And, he has knees!

[Fit For Natalie]

Limited runs are a problem for Hasbro Toy Shop? I disagree. They have plenty Star Wars exclusives, and so does StarWarsShop.com. And these exclusives just happen to be repaints... (501st Stormtrooper, Shadow Stormtrooper, Covert Ops Clonetrooper, etc) Don't tell me Hasbro doesn't have the capability to make TC an online exclusive, because there is no reason they couldn't.

And as for TC being "unlikely"... yeah sorry I'm not buying it.

Those toys you cited were also available in other markets as well, not just HTS. So for a HTS to work for TC, they'd most likely need to make enough to sell as exclusives under different arrangements, assuming they find willing retailers to carry them.

TC would also cost more to manufacture per unit than a simple SW figure.

Hasbro did internet exclusives before and still does to this day. The Kir Kanos star wars pack, the gijoe bat box 6 pack and such. Not exclusive to HTS but exclusive to online stores.

I believe the 6 pack of BATs you are talking about were made for the cancelled GI Joe: Rise of the Robots/BATS line. Most of Hasbro's DTC GI Joe line are remnants of that series.

Sure the seekers are the same toys but they are all different characters. Someone explain to me why power ranger figures of the same costumes but different color continue to sell at retail without sales of one or the other affecting each other. And someone tell me how this is able to happen every year.

Perhaps its the same premise, same toy, similar deco but different paints, but different character.

I presume it is because the 5 or 6 Rangers are all main characters. The 5 other seekers are less famous than SS, and there's no cartoon to flog them anyway.

Just look at the zillions of repaints for many BW and RiD/Armada toys. Hell, there's more TransMetal 1 Cheetor repaints than there are seekers I think---and they sold! (Personally, I thought the TRU-exclusive FoxKids repaint was cool, and it's the only version I have). If stuff like THAT sells, there surely should be room for major characters like Thundercracker. Heck, they could even use Skywarp's paint pattern to save money, just in different colors.

How many repaints of Armada Prime are there?

But those repaints you cited were released gradually over several years. Transmetal 1 Cheetor was only repainted once, not counting differences between the US and Japanese Metals release. I think you meant the original Cheetor tooling, who was repainted 6 times over 11 years.

There are 6 repaints of Supercon Armada Prime excluding running changes, original release (Late 2002), mail-in Crystal Convoy (2003 - Japan Only, limited numbers), Mail-in Scourge (2003 - Japan Only, limited numbers), Nemesis Prime (2003), Universe Battle in a Box Ultra Magnus (2005), Cybertron (deluxe truck) Optimus Prime (2006).

[Matt Random]

Even though I know I'll never have all three of the original Seekers, I couldn't resist picking up the Skywarp 2-pack for $5 today. Skywarp has always been my favorite Decipticon and this is the best version of him to date. Ultra Magnus is nice too although I have to admit I'm getting fed up with the whole paint Prime white and call him UM. The original UM, the one that defined the character, was never a white Prime. He was a unique looking character whose vehicle mode happened to have a component that looked like Prime.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

Those toys you cited were also available in other markets as well, not just HTS. So for a HTS to work for TC, they'd most likely need to make enough to sell as exclusives under different arrangements, assuming they find willing retailers to carry them.

TC would also cost more to manufacture per unit than a simple SW figure.

I believe the 6 pack of BATs you are talking about were made for the cancelled GI Joe: Rise of the Robots/BATS line. Most of Hasbro's DTC GI Joe line are remnants of that series.

I presume it is because the 5 or 6 Rangers are all main characters. The 5 other seekers are less famous than SS, and there's no cartoon to flog them anyway.

But those repaints you cited were released gradually over several years. Transmetal 1 Cheetor was only repainted once, not counting differences between the US and Japanese Metals release. I think you meant the original Cheetor tooling, who was repainted 6 times over 11 years.

There are 6 repaints of Supercon Armada Prime excluding running changes, original release (Late 2002), mail-in Crystal Convoy (2003 - Japan Only, limited numbers), Mail-in Scourge (2003 - Japan Only, limited numbers), Nemesis Prime (2003), Universe Battle in a Box Ultra Magnus (2005), Cybertron (deluxe truck) Optimus Prime (2006).

Transmetal 1 Cheetor was repainted more than that. There is an armada version and possibly others.

No, the BAT pack I was talking about is from years before the DTC BAT pack. The one I was talking about came in a plain white box and was an online exclusive, bbts and other estores had it for a while. It had translucent v2 BATS from ARAH.

And with rangers usually the red ranger and then the special out of nowhere silver green or white ranger comes out of nowhere towards the middle with some conflict and ends up being a main character. The others are just side characters. People and kids buy them for the sake of completing a team, for example the blue ranger can't exactly be called a main character nor can the yellow ranger. Same reason we want the rest of the seekers.

[JB0]

I just realized something...

With the last 2 Alternators being Rumble and Ravage, we now have 3 cassette robot Alternators(2 different Ravages + Rumble). But they never did Soundwave.

Does anyone else find that just a tad ironic?

[Guest sh002]

They could have finished a line of Stunticon Alternators with Nemesis Prime or something for the leader. If Thundercracker is not as famous as Starscream, why is his character and colors still used in different lines? Only the G1 reissue of Ramjet and Thrust weren't made in the US. Is Dirge popular too? Thundercracker was released first as a Titanium before Starscream. I think all 3 original seekers are popular. They repaint Bumblebee and release Cliffjumper individually. Couldn't they do that for Thundercracker and sell another seeker individually? Can't this line and others continue after the movie releases die down?

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

They could have finished a line of Stunticon Alternators with Nemesis Prime or something for the leader. If Thundercracker is not as famous as Starscream, why is his character and colors still used in different lines? Only the G1 reissue of Ramjet and Thrust weren't made in the US. Is Dirge popular too? Thundercracker was released first as a Titanium before Starscream. I think all 3 original seekers are popular. They repaint Bumblebee and release Cliffjumper individually. Couldn't they do that for Thundercracker and sell another seeker individually? Can't this line and others continue after the movie releases die down?

They can but we won't know for sure until botcon. Until then, everything else is either an assumption or fanboy hypothesis.

[Hikuro]

I just got my Protoform Optimus and Starscream in the mail from hasbro...I like 'em 0_o my only big complaint is 1, Starscreams arms can pop out of the sockets because of his shoulder armor continues to get in the wayand his arms involve alot of twisting to Cometary form.

The poseability and articulation for these figures are just FANTASTIC, and I think it's really because of all the balljoints on the bodies, espically the hips. I'm really having fun messing around with the toys.

I think, personally, I should of been hired for the movie.

Starscreaming taking one RIGHT IN THE FSKIN MOUTH! "Roll out some of this and smoke it"

[Fit For Natalie]

They could have finished a line of Stunticon Alternators with Nemesis Prime or something for the leader. If Thundercracker is not as famous as Starscream, why is his character and colors still used in different lines? Only the G1 reissue of Ramjet and Thrust weren't made in the US. Is Dirge popular too? Thundercracker was released first as a Titanium before Starscream. I think all 3 original seekers are popular. They repaint Bumblebee and release Cliffjumper individually. Couldn't they do that for Thundercracker and sell another seeker individually? Can't this line and others continue after the movie releases die down?

G1 Thundecracker's (toy) colours have only been used once since his G1 release, as I recall, for Armada Thundercracker. Cybertron Thundercracker is a new character who doesn't even have the G1 scheme.

Titaniums are primarily collector-focused line. I believe they released Thundercracker first because of the many Starscream toys (G1 or not) that have been released on the market lately, and the fact he (the G1 version) hadn't been seen around for awhile.

I believe Ramjet and Thrust were going to follow Dirge in the TRU Commemorative reissue series, but by then they had begun winding the line down.

I think they did Cliffjumper because he's a car (cars are always popular TF toys) and he appears to be a friendly character to kids, even if his bio depicts him as a crazy paranoid. No idea if Hasbro will continue Classics in some manner. Right after the movie they're moving onto TF Heroes, and that has been described as quite different from TF series that have come before.

[Guest sh002]

In the US, Heroes of Cybertron Thundercracker and Titanium 3" Thundercracker. Cybertron Thundercracker has blue and black colors. If only Starscream is popular, why make G1 reissues of Skywarp, Thundercracker, and Dirge?

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

In the US, Heroes of Cybertron Thundercracker and Titanium 3" Thundercracker. Cybertron Thundercracker has blue and black colors. If only Starscream is popular, why make G1 reissues of Skywarp, Thundercracker, and Dirge?

Good question. Those did cost more and were also exclusives to TRU. Classics seekers would have been 1/3rd of the price each not to mention mass market.

[Fit For Natalie]

In the US, Heroes of Cybertron Thundercracker and Titanium 3" Thundercracker. Cybertron Thundercracker has blue and black colors. If only Starscream is popular, why make G1 reissues of Skywarp, Thundercracker, and Dirge?

HOC Thundercracker was merchandise, a low-cost product meant to (in the end) support and advertise the brand in an inexpensive manner. To a lesser extent, Titanium 3" figurines do the same, though it is much more important as its own toy franchise.

Cybertron Thundercracker was grey with bright orange and baby blue. He was not black.

G1 reissues are not an kid-targeted mainline. Starscream was released about a year or more before Skywarp, Thundercracker and Dirge. Also, the reissues as I understand were not released in similar sorts of waves that Mainline toys are. They are confined to their assigned assortments, and when its gone, its gone.

As I have repeatedly tried to explain, in a mass-market mainline the stores do not want 6 jets of near identical design on their pegs at almost the same time.

When I talk about popularity, I mean by recognisability in name and character with kids and the general public. Starscream has been a very prominent TF character since 2002 and is the best known of the three F-15 seekers.

That's why he was reissued first, and why he gets pimped the most out of the 6 original jets, and why he's the Decepticon jet character who is recycled in every subsequent TF series, and why the other remaining jets usually aren't seen too often, at least not all together in a single line anymore.

[HoveringCheesecake]

I don't care if the stores don't want a bunch of jets on the pegs - an online store exclusive would have worked perfectly fine.

[David Hingtgen]

Exactly. They'd sell WAY more and make more profit from Classic TC, Dirge and Thrust at Hasbro's online shop than they ever could at Botcon. Even if they only charged like $12.99 each, instead of 300 bucks for 5-packs. There's a LOT more people our age who will pay normal prices for their fave seeker, than will drive to Botcon and pay 300 bucks for them.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

Exactly. They'd sell WAY more and make more profit from Classic TC, Dirge and Thrust at Hasbro's online shop than they ever could at Botcon. Even if they only charged like $12.99 each, instead of 300 bucks for 5-packs. There's a LOT more people our age who will pay normal prices for their fave seeker, than will drive to Botcon and pay 300 bucks for them.

You and meh cd are right on the money. And sure some can say HTS sales can't justify this thing going online but as I said earlier, there have been star wars and gijoe exclusives sold online only to not only hts but also bbts, and other popular etailers.

This would again, generate more sales than the botcon sets due to the higher production numbers/availability not to mention cheaper price.

Not to mention if kids go to the hasbro site and see some seekers there, they might be inclined to ask their parents to order them.

I mean really the only people happy with the botcon set are those who are able to go and buy the thing, and that sure as hell is not the entire fandom, not even the majority.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

http://www.shortpacked.com/d/20050831.html

Pat Lee tutorial LOL

[Hoptimus]

I love the one about how Pat Lee screwed his employee's over. LOL. What a hoser.

[doodler7]

Hi,

Out of topic here, but have any of you guys bought the BT-17 black dodge truck...and are you guys also planning to get the BT-18 that's coming out...a transluscent Mirage?

Is it worth it to collect and complete the BT series? Do you guys think Takara will stop at BT-18?

The BT-17 is around $290 shipped from eBay...which is pretty "whack!"

What do you guys think?

[Hoptimus]

Hi,

Out of topic here, but have any of you guys bought the BT-17 black dodge truck...and are you guys also planning to get the BT-18 that's coming out...a transluscent Mirage?

Is it worth it to collect and complete the BT series? Do you guys think Takara will stop at BT-18?

The BT-17 is around $290 shipped from eBay...which is pretty "whack!"

What do you guys think?

No those exclusives arent worth it to me. Heck when I was at ComicCon last year every morning I tried to get the RAFFLE ticket for Nemesis Prime Alternator and it was always sold out. Bah.

[Cyclone]

No those exclusives arent worth it to me. Heck when I was at ComicCon last year every morning I tried to get the RAFFLE ticket for Nemesis Prime Alternator and it was always sold out. Bah.

and yet Nemsis Prime was a $50Aus shelfwarmer in Australia. Irony...

[Guest sh002]

Get the Alternators Nemesis Prime version for $50 or less. I like it better with trademark red windows.

[do not disturb]

just wondering if anyone got their MP megs yet?

mine shipped out today but i wanted to read some opinions/reviews of the toy for those who already have them, thanks.

[VF-2SS-BloodPhoenix]

As far as Nemesis Prime/BT Black Convoy is concerned, I'm more partial to the BT. I don't really like the red windows on Nemesis Prime, but I especially don't like the price gouging on BT Black Convoy. I don't have either though and I'm not particularly desperate given my preferences on the matter.

There's plenty of photos of MP-5, and at the Invincible Robot Laboratory, Yone-san has a photo of the broken tab to watch out for. I haven't come across a good review of the toy yet, but the photos should speak for themselves.

[Dangard Ace]

No those exclusives arent worth it to me. Heck when I was at ComicCon last year every morning I tried to get the RAFFLE ticket for Nemesis Prime Alternator and it was always sold out. Bah.

Raffle ticket? I bought 3 on opening night.

Mirage is so totally worth it. Think. BT=Diecast. Mirage is going to be transparent. Transparent aluminum!!

[Los]

I told a friend that I wanted to take this picture since we got our MP-05s, but I have been too busy the last few days to do it! Anyway, he was able to do it today and I thought I would share...

[mister_e]

^ Nice! I like that

[kensei]

That's the ticket. It's great. Old skool!

[JB0]

I told a friend that I wanted to take this picture since we got our MP-05s, but I have been too busy the last few days to do it! Anyway, he was able to do it today and I thought I would share...

I believe that justifies the entire production run right there.

[The Shade]

I believe that justifies the entire production run right there.

Yep, from a marketing POV, that certainly looks like a winning photo to me.