Battlestar Galactica Discussion

[kaiotheforsaken]

Point taken. Zarek suggested that Baltar use that planet as a hot button issue to win the election. He also, in the end, did provide a way for Roslyn to become president again. I think the later was more because he knew he wasn't the right man to be the commander and chief so to speak. He wanted a hand in the government, but not be it's figurehead. I also think that at that point, he also more or less that Roslyn was right for the job.

Tori attempted to fix an election with the aid, of another final 5 member (Tigh) and was partially involved with the resistance on New Caprica. I think her role is a bit more equal to Tom though.

However, Anders has played his part. He lead the resistance on Caprica, was a prominent member of the resistance on New Caprica. I also credit him (along with Athena and Helo) with saving Kara from the farm on Caprica (she would have easily been recaptured without the rescue). So while his screen time is minimal, he's done quite a bit in my eyes. He also is or was in a romantic relationship with Kara, tying him to one of the shows most important figures.

We may see more of Tom in S4, but I'm still pretty adamant the final Cylon is going to be big, or it wouldn't be such a deep dark secret.

Imagine if it was say, D or Gaeta or even Tom. Would there be that huge "Holy frak" moment like when we found out Tigh and Tyrol were Cylons? I for one would be like...well crap, that was a waste of some perfectly good conflict.

Also, in addition to my Baltar theory, I'd like to add a few things onto that. His ability to project, or have an experience so remarkably similar. Also, I noticed that one of the drawings D'anna does before she is boxed, features a bearded man, with hair behind the ears. At the time of this episode, the image is a solid ringer for Gaius. I've probably seen that episode...5 maybe 6 times now before I noticed, as it's not the primary focus of the shot. I think I still have S3 on my comp, I'll try and screen cap the shot I'm talking about.

I also think in terms of the 5th, D'anna's reaction and the first Hybrids prophecy are our best clues to revealing who is our final Cylon. "The 5th, still in shadow, will claw towards the light. Hungering for redemption, that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering."

Zarek to me, doesn't fit this. He's done plenty that some may think he needs to be redeemed for, but he hardly strikes me as hungering for redemption. Also, while Tom pushed for settlement of New Caprica, it was Gaius' actions that ultimately lead humanity to being discovered. His "head 6" made him request the nuclear warhead for the Cylon detector wayyy wayyy back in season 1, which he then gives to Gina Inviere (Pegasus 6), who then proceeds to blow herself up. Which is what the Cylons detect drawing them to our haven and leading to the occupation.

edit: typos

Edited April 6, 2008 by kaiotheforsaken

[chowyunskinny]

well the idea of us trying to convince each other of their predictions for a TV show is kind of ridiculous, so I'd like to propose a ridiculous idea

let's start a pool on who we think the Final Cylon is

Winner gets to choose one of the following as the "I Told You" prize

They are each about 120 dollars so if we get 12 people to put 10 dollars down on the pool....

whaddya say? Are you fracking in?

[Fatalist]

Ok, soooooo what if there's a tie? I'm down though! I want that frakin Mark II!!!!!!!!

[chowyunskinny]

LOL,

I guess we can discuss the particulars if 10 other people besides you is willing to throw in on this pool

I guess the fairest way though would be to split the value of the prize by however many ties there are

Edited April 6, 2008 by chowyunskinny

[kaiotheforsaken]

That's part of what makes this show so awesome though. Is that we can debate on all the ins and outs of it. Hell we could all be wrong, and that'd be ok too as long as it stays true the series we've all come to enjoy.

As for the pool, I think that might be pretty awesome. I suppose with as big as my mouth is on the subject I should put some money where it is at 10ish bucks a person. I'd be down. I love that MK II statue.

EDIT: My vote is definitely for Baltar as the final Cylon.

Edited April 6, 2008 by kaiotheforsaken

[chowyunskinny]

WOOHOO!!!!

who will the 7 others be?

It's almost as big of a cliffhanger

Agreed Kai, it is part of what makes the show awesome.

So, currently we have

Chowyunskinny - Tom Zarek

Kaitheforsaken - Gaius Baltar

Fatalist - Tom Zarek

Uminoken - Ellen Tigh

Mog - Laura Roslin

any other takers?

Edited April 6, 2008 by chowyunskinny

[uminoken]

Oh hells yeah, I'll throw in my 10...

Prediction - Ellen Tigh

Edited April 6, 2008 by uminoken

[chowyunskinny]

I'm not sure uminoken

I just came up with the idea but haven't really thought too hard of the rules,

what do you all think?

[kaiotheforsaken]

I think holding off to see if we get more bites wouldn't hurt. But I'm pretty open either way.

In case it was missed above: Prediction, Baltar

[chowyunskinny]

Oh hells yeah, I'll throw in my 10...

Prediction - Ellen Tigh

oohhh...you know uminoken, I was considering her also

but the funny thing was, Boomer was the first to get preggers with a human, so if Ellen was she definitely should have been the first give birth to a hybrid with the way she slept around

k, i gotta get some shuteye, but i'll check this thread tomorrow for more takers on the pool

i think we should limit the pool to 12 people, ya know to keep in theme with the 12 cylon models thing

Edited April 6, 2008 by chowyunskinny

[uminoken]

Yeah, I've considered that as well, although Baltar's got a pretty good track record with sleeping around as well, and I just can't belive Anders and Tori were virgins, and we haven't heard of any of them having children (aside from Tyrol and Cally), so mayhaps birth control (either of the Trojan variety or the Cylon variety) works REALLY well in the BSG verse!

[kaiotheforsaken]

Well, for those with good memories, Athena stated to Helo, Kara and possibly Anders (while on Caprica) that the Cylons had a theory that love was missing from the equation in prior attempts at reproduction. I doubt, save Tigh, Ellen loved anyone she was with, same situation applies with Baltar.

I see Kara with a patch on her shoulder all the time, so either she's on the patch, or trying to kick smoking . Regardless, with as much sex as BSG has, their birth control must be 100%. I also recall some pretty nasty complications with Hera's birth. This may continue to speak about the differences between the 7 and the 5. The only problem with Chief's son, is he is frakin fat .

Speaking of children, anyone wondering what little Cally is going to do when she finds out she's married to a Cylon and bore a half Cylon child to boot? She hates the Cylon. After seeing that last supper picture with Chief holding the knife, and the way Cally is towards the Cylon, I could see her trying to off her kid and herself, and Chief having to stop her with a good old fashion shanking to save his child, the 2nd of a new generation.

There are so many interpersonal relationships that will strain and I imagine, break as a result of the people who are now known to be 4 of the final 5. I can see where things have the potential, as was mentioned, to get a whole lot darker.

Edited April 6, 2008 by kaiotheforsaken

[eugimon]

I just want to say, I fraking hate cally and I can't wait for the hysterics to start when she finds out that Chief is a cylon.

[kaiotheforsaken]

Agreed, Cally is my least favorite character still alive. I was not a fan of Ellen, or Kat (though the ep where Kat died, really redeemed that character).

[Mog]

Well, I think that Kat's final episode kinda messed up the character for me. The big reveal where she has this deep, dark secret past never really clicked with me.

Whereas, I think Ellen's actions and death in Season 3 really helped to give her character a lot of much-needed depth.

In any case, put me down for $10 on Laura Roslin being the last Cylon. I know it's probably a long-shot. But it would be ever-so-slightly plausible, and it would be one hell of a shocker. Imagine how both Adamas would react to such a reveal. Imagine how the whole fleet would feel, once they find out their dying leader is a frakkin' toaster. Hell, imagine Laura's reaction herself, especially when her first reaction is to space most Cylons out the nearest airlock.

And there is some history to support this idea: her visions (even if they are Kamala extract-induced) way back in Season 1, her sparing the life of Hera (Sharon's baby), and her shared visions of the opera house with Athena and Caprica Six.

Again, probably a long-shot. But I'll put down some funds for some bragging rights.

[Macross73]

Agreed, Cally is my least favorite character still alive. I was not a fan of Ellen, or Kat (though the ep where Kat died, really redeemed that character).

I have to say I'm ok with Cally . Ellen didtnt have a whole lot to add as character.

Kat , I hated her character and I didnt care when she died.

The scene between Anders and Kara about how she would shoot him

if she ever found out he was a Cylon - that was nice

Edited April 6, 2008 by Macross73

[chowyunskinny]

yeah, I remember them saying it was love missing from the equation, I was just trying to make a joke about how much of a Ho Ellen Tigh was

As for Cally, I think her "I hate Cylons" actually translates to "I hate Sharon/Boomer" because she was jealous of her relationship with Chief.

Cally's like the Baltar worshippers except that she's a 1 person cult who's altar is Chief Tyrol.

I think she's gonna flip her stance 180 when she finds out he's a cylon

"leave Chief alone!!!!....he's a cylon but he's under a lot of pressure, if anyone has a problem with him being a cylon you'll have to go through me!!! Leave Chief Alone!" HAHAHAHAHAHAHH

kat.... *groan* "Where you at Starbuck?"

Man, what if it turns out to be someone who was a dead non-main char that we've forgotten about...like Billy? God I hope not, I found him more annoying than Cally and would be pissed if they made it him just for the sake of it being someone no one would have guessed.

So for the pool, I figured everyone involved could just paypal the $10 to the winner once it's revealed. In the event of ties, we'll just divy up the pot among the members with the correct predictions. Sound ok?

[Dobber]

Ha Ha! how about Crashdown.

Always hated Kat....and I find Cally more and more annoying too.

My money, for who the final cylon is, is on:

Either Tom Zarek or Romo Lamkin.

Gaeta would be a bad pick either.....but mainly I think Zarek or Lamkin....they are both master manipulators.

Chris

[Batou]

In any case, put me down for $10 on Laura Roslin being the last Cylon. I know it's probably a long-shot. But it would be ever-so-slightly plausible, and it would be one hell of a shocker. Imagine how both Adamas would react to such a reveal. Imagine how the whole fleet would feel, once they find out their dying leader is a frakkin' toaster. Hell, imagine Laura's reaction herself, especially when her first reaction is to space most Cylons out the nearest airlock.

And there is some history to support this idea: her visions (even if they are Kamala extract-induced) way back in Season 1, her sparing the life of Hera (Sharon's baby), and her shared visions of the opera house with Athena and Caprica Six.

Again, probably a long-shot. But I'll put down some funds for some bragging rights.

If she was a Cylon, why would injecting her with blood from the hybrid baby heal her cancer? Why would they have given her cancer to begin with, if it was going to kill her before she was "activated" and could perform her mission? They couldn't have possibly foreseen Hera's arrival when they were designing the humanoid models. (Or maybe they did, who knows).

If I had to take a guess, the final Cylon hasn't been introduced yet and the humans and toasters team up in the end against him/her as a common enemy of something a la DYRL. (Then Starbuck flies in, transforms into a robot, and shoots him in the face). I'm sure the Internet fanboys will be pissing and moaning about it for years to come, whichever way it goes.

I'm just really hoping no one jumps a shark, that's all.

Edited April 6, 2008 by Batou

[Effect]

How strongly is Lee out of the running when it comes to being the 5th?

[Evil Porkchop]

I say it's Rosalyn. I just think about S1 when Leoben said "Adama is a cylon", the Bill Adama says thay Leoben mixes lies with truths. Well it seems like the Admiral and Pres are getting cozy, what if they get married? Makes Leoben's lie from S1 the truth then. IMO having the Admiral or Apollo a cylon is pointless.

Or and here is my way outta left field idea... Humanity itself is the final cylon.

Edited April 6, 2008 by Evil Porkchop

[the white drew carey]

If she was a Cylon, why would injecting her with blood from the hybrid baby heal her cancer? Why would they have given her cancer to begin with, if it was going to kill her before she was "activated" and could perform her mission? They couldn't have possibly foreseen Hera's arrival when they were designing the humanoid models. (Or maybe they did, who knows).

Your question is based on the assumption that the Final Five are manufactured like the Significant Seven.

As for foreseeing things, this whole show is definitely in the "This has all happened before, and it will happen again" plotline, so I couldn't discount any type of prescience at all, nowadays.

[Evil Porkchop]

One other thing, I think the Galactica Fleet is the 13th tribe.

[kaiotheforsaken]

I'm fairly certain Leoben's line to Ros back in S1 is purely to seed doubt and suspicion within the leaders of the fleet. From what we know, the 7 aren't aware of the identities of the 5, so his statement being truth either violates what we know OR is just incredibly ironic.

I've heard some Lee theories, seeing as how they talk about when Zack was born a few times, but never Lee, so there was speculation he was adopted. I don't buy it, seeing as how they dyed Jamie's hair to match Eddie Olmos' and they gave Eddie blue contacts to match Jamie. I just think that Adama blood line, more than anything else in the entire series, is solid history. Hell even Romo worked for Joe Adama, so we have record of at least 3 generations of them. Course, that would make an Adama as a Cylon be the biggest mind frak of all.

I saw the vote for Ellen made last night and while her character doesn't really match the prophecy, and I don't think she ever met D'anna. She DOES have some interesting things going for her. The fact that no one could remember treating her for injuries until several days after that attack on the colonies that coupled with the fact Baltar tests her via the Cylon detector yet says he would never share the results when asked by head 6. It certainly plants the seed about Ellen. My biggest issue with Ellen coming back, is that A) it shows the 5 download just like the 7, which, unless the 5 are sporting their own fleet with their own rez ships, this seems highly unlikely and B) it creates one of two issue for Saul, either he is overjoyed that Ellen has returned, hey their both Cylons, no harm right? Or she comes back and lays down a pile of grief on Saul so thick that he loses it.

I think Saul has enough on his plate, he already struggles with what he felt he had to do to her. This grief is then compounded by the fact, he IS a Cylon, and he killed her for feeding them information. He also has to deal with his relationships with the living, which are going to undoubtedly become more strained as time goes on. All this puts a huge microscope over Saul, and while he is a main character, there is so much else that is going to be happening, I'm not sure it would play out all that well.

IF we believe at least some things RDM say as fact about the show, the final Cylon has been around since season 1. Which discredits Romo. However I take many things he says with a grain of salt, seeing as how, to protect the big spoiler of Kara, both him and Katie insisted she was dead for good.

edit: Chow, that idea seems good to me with regards to the winner.

Edited April 7, 2008 by kaiotheforsaken

[Tober]

Here's an interesting little link:

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20169703,00.html

Click on the numbered red dots to bring up some hints. the bar at the bottom is a slider to reveal the rest of the "supper".

It might hold the clue to who the final Cylon is.

[HoveringCheesecake]

I'm going to say Gaeta. I don't trust him.

[Duke Togo]

So, if I go by what Moore says here (assuming I read that right), the final Cylon is NOT at the table.

Which makes it not the Adamas, not Rosalyn, not Kara, not Baltar, and not Helo.

Edited April 7, 2008 by Duke Togo

[Evil Porkchop]

Well if it's not Rosalyn as suggested by the "Last Supper" picture. I'm now leaning heavily towards Tom Zarek as the final Cylon... and I'm still very much convinced that Leoban's "Adama is a cylon" is important. Richard Hatch did play Apollo in the orginal BSG... maybe I'm grasping at straws there, but still it's the "truth mixed in with a lie". And Zarek was/is much more important to the BSG story than Tory was/is and she was outted as a Cylon.

[Duke Togo]

But none of the seven knew who the final five were. There is no way any of them would have known Adama was a Cylon.

[Baldrick]

My vote = Zak Adama

[Evil Porkchop]

But none of the seven knew who the final five were. There is no way any of them would have known Adama was a Cylon.

Maybe, but then the "6" on Galactica shouldn't know that the final 5 are "near" either. Sharon/Athena hasn't said anything about the other 5 being near. It would seem that some of the 7 can see things that others of them can't. If the Significant 7 don't know who the others are, then why would "6" be trying not to think of them.

Seems like the Cylons do have the capability to alter their own programming, Sharon/Athena, Caprica 6, D'anna and go outside the bounds of what they were originally programmed for... why not Leoban too?

Edited April 7, 2008 by Evil Porkchop

[Duke Togo]

I wouldn't read too much into that. Otherwise this would have been exposed a LONG time ago.

[kaiotheforsaken]

I believe that now that 4/5 are activated, they are able to be recognized, at least in some fashion. Obviously Athena noticed nothing, but that raider did, and so did 6.

I don't believe Moore's comment on the last supper. In interviews with multiple cast members, it was stated that the idea was just kinda thrown out there, everyone liked it, and so they did it. Moore didn't even come up with the idea.

If you believe his comments are doctrine though. The central figure seems to me to be head 6, which is the only version of 6 to ever sport that dress or wear red (the exception being the one at armistice station, who did wear red). Who is to say the Baltar figure, isn't head Baltar? Technically then, real Baltar isn't in the shot.

From my browsing of other forums, it seems a lot of people think that more is misleading us for this particular photo. In his podcast for the final episode of season 3. He talks about publishing fake information to keep Kara's return secret, and states he'll probably have to do more of it in the future. I believe that is the truth, and I don't think we can put too much stock in the photo itself. Something created by the sci-fi PR department just cause it looks neat, probably doesn't hold the key. It was also said, that they took several different versions, with each character taking up a different role if you will, within the photo. While an awesome add/image for the BSG universe, I don't put a ton of stock in the "facts" we have on it, or the image itself.

However I'll pose a few questions here. Why does everyone assume the final Cylon must be manipulative? Is our lovely Athena that way? Are all Cylons this way? Was Sharon this way before she went and popped Adama? The sixes seem to be, and the Leoben model is definitely, but not all models share the manipulative trait.

Also, are the revealed 4 like this at all? Tigh..no, he has flaws, but he's not manipulative. Tyrol.. no, Tyrol strikes me as the Helo of the knuckle draggers, or the lower class as Baltar calls it. He does the right thing, and is a good person, does the revelation that he is a Cylon change this? Anders..no, he can be a little soft at times, at least in the eyes of certain characters, but he is also a good person who has saved hundreds of peoples lives through his resistance work. Tori.. if there is a manipulative one in the group, it's her, but only for her work in trying to steal an election (which President Roslin authorized). Yes, Tigh did agree to help Tori with fixing the election. Though I think most would agree, that humanity (at least as we stand now) would be better off if they had gone through with it.

They are all flawed, they all have made mistakes, but none of them are particularly manipulative. I wouldn't put that trait under any of them in a profile. So why must our final Cylon have it?

Also, why is it, that only Athena, is considered a person amongst the crew, Adama and it seems now even Roslin? The 6 currently on Galactica is a "thing" despite her help to bring Athena and Hera back to Galactica. I imagine, Saul, Tyrol, Tori and Anders will face this too. Why is Athena a special case? Why is it that most people still feel that all Cylons are evil and dangerous? The species obviously has reason to fear them, but the lines between what makes you human or not are quickly fading. Also note, that this is in the context of the characters and their attitudes, not people here on this forum.

Edited April 7, 2008 by kaiotheforsaken

[GogDog]

If a group of synthetic beings murdered almost a trillion people and left the remaining without even a planet to live on, I say it's just fine if they are not treated as regular human beings. Makes perfect sense to me.

Edited April 7, 2008 by GogDog

[kaiotheforsaken]

So, only one Cylon can be forgiven for the acts committed against our race? No others can make a choice to part ways and become one of us?

Your analysis, albeit short, is also too cut and dry. Are the final 5 we know of instantly bad people? Should we shove Tigh and the others out the nearest airlock? Maybe round up Athena and her half breed son and toss them out too? Cally, and her son, one is half Cylon, the other is married to one. Cylon conspirators! Better round them up too. Roslin, well she had half breed blood, maybe it corrupted her? Airlock time.

If we went by your logic, and applied it to real life. If humanity, as a species was so wrapped up in revenge and hatred over those who have wronged us. The real human race would have obliterated itself long ago, and the humans of BSG, would not have put trust in any of the Cylons (not even Athena, her story line would be meaningless) and we would have committed genocide against them via the virus.

In my mind, if you can brand all Cylons evil and the people of the fleet as good you are missing a giant part of what this whole story is about.

Also, humanity created intelligent artificial beings, and enslaved them. How are the Cylons the only ones at fault?

edit: typos

Edited April 7, 2008 by kaiotheforsaken