Yamato 1/60 scale YF-19 problem thread.

[Ignacio Ocamica]

I guess I got two perfect ones

I don't want to start a debate but both my YF-19 transform smoothly. I have no problem pulling and sliding the neck section.

I can't understand how people are claiming it's the worst toy ever. I'm not advertising for Yamato but seriously, I can't label this toy as a POS

I do find the crooked gunpod and the rear landing gears annoying but it's minor for me.

Edited February 13, 2007 by Ignacio Ocamica

[Fly4victory]

The 1/60 YF-19 is better than the 1/72 YF-19 and the VF-19A.

To compare: first edition YF-19 with unbroken Tab B and the now repaired "dislocated" shoulder YF-19.

I can not see how the new 19 is the worst toy ever!?

For those that want to think as such please not include mine, just know that the shoulder can come off, it is easy to fix but if you do not want to risk breakage then don't play with it and certainly don't take it out of the box.

I will be buying the fold booster package set after release, not preordered, but if people want perfection then build the Hasegawa YF-19, do a kit bash to make it variable, or dig up the old SHE kit.

10 million dollar aircraft break and so too 200 dollar toys.

[Scream Man]

WELL SAID.

[bandit29]

The 1/60 YF-19 is better than the 1/72 YF-19 and the VF-19A.

To compare: first edition YF-19 with unbroken Tab B and the now repaired "dislocated" shoulder YF-19.

I can not see how the new 19 is the worst toy ever!?

For those that want to think as such please not include mine, just know that the shoulder can come off, it is easy to fix but if you do not want to risk breakage then don't play with it and certainly don't take it out of the box.

I will be buying the fold booster package set after release, not preordered, but if people want perfection then build the Hasegawa YF-19, do a kit bash to make it variable, or dig up the old SHE kit.

10 million dollar aircraft break and so too 200 dollar toys.

This message has been brought to you by the Yamato Defenders of the Faith Club

[nugundamII]

This message has been brought to you by the Yamato Defenders of the Faith Club

:up:

[Nani?!]

1. Not minor. It's very visible from most angles. And how is it EASILY fixed by the owner, without ruining it visually? Gluing on chunks of plastic to force it to align is NOT a solution. That's as bad as saying "just don't attach it in fighter mode". And I still don't buy ANY excuse about it "slipping through cracks". It has a 100% occurence rate.

3. The left one should be an exact mirror of the right one. Isn't this what CAD and laser-carved molds are for? Precision and symmetry? So why do the two shoulders act different? Lego was making absolutely perfect mirror-image parts decades ago, in ABS plastic no less. Yamato doesn't seem to be able to do half as well, with tools decades newer.

4. Design decision? They why are the wheels themselves tilted WAY outwards when un-modified? If the gear was supposed to be straight, then the wheels should have been straight. As-is, they can barely even make contact with the ground, they're balancing on the edge of their treads. I'll accept a "they changed it" explanation, but won't believe that's how it was originally designed. ........................... and so on

Dave your points are killer.

Exactly the nutbusting yamato, through graham (if graham actually had the intention of relaying it), should hear.

10 million dollar aircraft break and so too 200 dollar toys.

10 million dollars buys you a state of the art combat aircraft capable of destroying a small city (10 years + worth).

When those have QC issues, they're sent right back to the drawing board and hammered out.

Considering that it's a 1/60th scale toy that just sits there and looks cool (only after we take the time to panel line and decal it up) costing $200, I reckon the cost-for-what-you-get ratio is worse than the 10 million dollar warbird. So where does this belong?

You got it... back on the bloody drawing board.

[myk]

$10,000,000 warbirds might "break" but do so only after hours of envelope pushing flight time. The '19, for all intents and purposes, is problematic before opening the box...

[Graham]

I think the 1/60 YF-19 looks great even unstickered and unpanel-lined. The minor issues don't seem to warrant the extreme amount of bitching and moaning going on here IMO.

It's a great toy and I love all of mine.

Graham

[Sam]

ditto =)

[Beware of Blast]

I think the 1/60 YF-19 looks great even unstickered and unpanel-lined. The minor issues don't seem to warrant the extreme amount of battying and moaning going on here IMO.

It's a great toy and I love all of mine.

Graham

Graham, there is no denying the beauty and potential of the 1/60 YF-19 as a great toy. How long have we been waiting for it, 4-6 years? Even with the issues that you've deemed minor and the massive letdown some of us are experiencing on the current release, that has got to mean something to Yamato.

No other toy companies are THAT lucky to have fans anticipating its releases, product after product and these Macross toys from Yamato has always spring-up unpleasant surprises ranging from minor to numerous and massive. They were never entirely problem-free or problems-easily fixed problems on the toys. We're not even asking for perfection.

So PLEASE don't downplay the issues on the 1/60 YF19 that are all brought up.

You may love all of your '19s despite its problems, but you or Yamato shouldn't dismiss the fact that our feelings aren't mutual. If anything it's more like tough love.

And so the magical beauty of the Yamato's sculpts and the love for the Macross anime saves the day again for Yamato. The fans are still here - b*tching and moaning or not.

Let's see how long this magic will last.

Edited February 14, 2007 by Beware of Blast

[promethuem5]

I'm inclinced to go with Graham here... I acknowledge that there are a few silly mistakes on the 19 that could have been avoided, but I still believe that the 19 is a far more impressive toy than the 1/48 or the 0s at the end of the day... the good engineering that went into it shows: it all actually works like it's supposed to, it's just got a little fudge room. The thing is and I've said it before and I know everyone hates hearing this, but EVERY problem on the 19 is fixable with an hour or less of work. That's my problem with all this complaining... if some of the louder members here had spent maybe a quarter of the time they spent writing batty comments, they could have fixed all the problems on the 19 real easy... The ammount of complaining here is simply astounding... everyone has been crying out for ages for a new 19, and when it finally gets here, it is amazing, except for a few minor (and to be fair, not very excusable) flaws, BUT, people have gotten SO hung up on ranting about these quirks that they miss the fact that they are easily remedyable, and doing so leaves you with a jaw-dropping toy, bar none.

[Macross73]

I don't get it. I mean theres a lot of " I hate the YF-19." going on.

And practically no listing in the For Sale section and I don't see eBay

auctions by the dozen to get rid of them either.

The 4 that I have are great. The fix to the Fuselage was easy.

The 19 looks great and it easy to transform.

[Beware of Blast]

I don't get it. I mean theres a lot of " I hate the YF-19." going on.

And practically no listing in the For Sale section and I don't see eBay

auctions by the dozen to get rid of them either.

That's because you are not suppose to sell what's broken, or in need of fixing - as new. We're not Yamato.

Edited February 14, 2007 by Beware of Blast

[takatoys]

As Graham said, I also think the 1/60 YF-19 looks great. All the manufacturing problems this toy has are minor issues. The only mayor problem with this toy is the price tag. There is nothing new of this toy rather than a wonderful design. No new diecast parts (necessary in my opinion), not a Kawamori signature, not a special edition box, no fast packs (yet). But still, the toy is way overpriced. I also collect other toys and some already compared the Bandai Gunbuster with the YF-19. Yes, Gunbuster is no Macross, but at about the same price you can see the difference in quality and extras. Yes, Bandai is not Yamato, but at least Yamato should have considered lowering the price or adding the fast packs and a special stand at the same price.

Now the fast packs are going to be sold separately for US$60-US$70. The design of the fast packs look great. But why charging so much for a couple of pieces that should have come with the toy in the first place. This is why fans feel that Yamato is taking advantage for being the only company selling 1/60 transforming Macross toys.

To aliviate this hate for Yamato charging so much for the YF-19, I always think myself years ago almost buying the Studio Half Eye YF-19. Same price but smaller, unpainted,unassambled and no landing gear

[treatment]

Yeah. I don't really have any issue with my 1/60 YF-19, unlike some of the louder moaners here.

Sure, the gunpod-placement is crooked, but I'm not too bothered with it.

Maybe a bit overpriced, but not really.

It really is a good toy. At least, to me.

Now however, the upcoming FP-set pricing is whole 'nother enchilada to be reckoned with.

[Fly4victory]

I have Yamato flavored Kool-aid for my fellow YDFCs.

This message has been brought to you by the Yamato Defenders of the Faith Club

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

My view is different. If they can avoid stuff like the broken tailfins of the earlier releases, make the joint nice and tight, find a way to have the upper torso click together, and generally avoid the problem with easily breakable pieces...I will gladly pay the price. There is no anger or hatred behind that statement. I love yamato and want them to succeed and take my money. It is just as I am not angry at those who want to buy early because they can't wait. You are welcome to do it and if you are happy, don't let us stop you! But don't stop the valid complainers from letting others know and warning them of thier experiences. These can be helpful and just as informative as the positive posts.

Nobody is denying there are people there with good 19 without problems. This thread is for people with the problems. There probably are lots of people without the problems, and maybe the complainers are a vocal minority, but even if they are, that's $200. That means no way of getting replacement since you are not in japan to be able to go anywhere for support. This thread hopefully will try to weed out the yamato haters (complaining for the sake of it) from the people with genuine problems so it is easy for those with the breakages to voice thier concerns about the toy.

Imo We should have a seperate thread for "impressions", and thread for complaints where genuine evidence can be shown of parts breaking off. The ones who have positive experiences can post pics of thiers in the impresions thread, the complaints can go in here. It would then give the members of MWB a "choice" as to what they want to filter out. If they don't like to read whiners and complainers they simply go into the "impressions thread" and not the complaints thread. Not all complaints are non-valid ones is all I want to say. Doing it that way will mean there is a chance that the complaints guys are not drowned out by the positive experience guys. We are not saying your experiences are BS, just that those with complaints are NOT BS either. And you got to put yourselves in thier shoes too.

Edited February 15, 2007 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[SuperSkylineGTR]

Got the news that mine is coming in today, YAY! Hopefully no issues.

Anyway, I've been seeing a lot of b1tching about the problem, but what about correcting it? Perhaps there should be a "how-to" to correct any Yamato flaws (like a little glue here, etc). Graham, thoughts?

[kensei]

There are some in the customising section below this one.

[GobotFool]

I certainly don't hate my 19. Overall it is a very pretty toy, but it is a bit of a let down when a 200 dollar toy has noticable factory issues that should have been noticed during the manufacturing process.

BTW, Graham can you ask yamato to stop puting tape on the 4 vernier on the 19's back. I took mine off and a significant ammount of paint came off with it.

[Beware of Blast]

NO! DON'T REMOVE THAT TAPE! That shite is THE 3M Magic tape. Not cheap if you buy the whole roll and hard to come by in small strip.

[do not disturb]

all the people that hate their 1/60 YF-19, please PM me and i'll take it off your hands.

please note, because you took it for a test spin, the bluebook value is now half of what it cost you.

i eagerly await your PM's....

[Roy's Blues]

I have Yamato flavored Kool-aid for my fellow YDFCs.

If I drink it will I get stress cracks and will parts of me break off.

No thanks.

[myk]

Anyway, I've been seeing a lot of b1tching about the problem, but what about correcting it? Perhaps there should be a "how-to" to correct any Yamato flaws (like a little glue here, etc). Graham, thoughts?

No thoughts necessary, just a little reading:

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=21130

[Godzilla]

all the people that hate their 1/60 YF-19, please PM me and i'll take it off your hands.

please note, because you took it for a test spin, the bluebook value is now half of what it cost you.

i eagerly await your PM's....

Or PM me. :-)

[Godzilla]

That's because you are not suppose to sell what's broken, or in need of fixing - as new. We're not Yamato.

Fine, I'll buy it off of you. Put your money where your mouth is. If it is broken as you call it, I'll take it for half price. People sell stuff that is broken all the time. Dont give me that.

You ppl are getting more anal and getting worse. You compare warplanes to yamato products? You all have no idea what the hidden flaws in manufacturing. On the 757 and 737 program, there was lots of crap that was going on. Yet the airplanes still flew. You dont even see the flaws when you get on the airplane. Cargo doors will not close properly, wiring not long enough, scratched fusealge, etc. Comparing warplanes to toy is like comparing apples to oranges.

BTW, the $10 mil warbirds are built by the lowest bidder as in all military contracts.

[Beware of Blast]

Fine, I'll buy it off of you. Put your money where your mouth is. If it is broken as you call it, I'll take it for half price. People sell stuff that is broken all the time. Dont give me that.

You ppl are getting more anal and getting worse. You compare warplanes to yamato products? You all have no idea what the hidden flaws in manufacturing. On the 757 and 737 program, there was lots of crap that was going on. Yet the airplanes still flew. You dont even see the flaws when you get on the airplane. Cargo doors will not close properly, wiring not long enough, scratched fusealge, etc. Comparing warplanes to toy is like comparing apples to oranges.

BTW, the $10 mil warbirds are built by the lowest bidder as in all military contracts.

I was not the one who compared warplanes to yamato products. but you're right on the $10 mil warbirds are built by the lowest bidder as in most military contracts.

But heh, AT LEAST the lowest bidder KNOWS what is QUALITY and they mostly delivered. Unlike Yamato.

That's why I suggested that Yamato should take up government projects. Government mofos look at the invoice of the lowest bidders and think that's the final amount they're gonna pay - without realising the ultimate on-going cost to maintain these things. Maybe they do, so they take more and more out of your taxes. It's not their money

But you missed the point. We ain't dealing with no governments. We're talking about consumer products. I am a consumer. I shouldn't have to worry about cargo doors not shutting properly, wiring not long enough, scratched fusealge, etc. That's Yamato's or the lowest bidders' job. The only problem for us is there is no government protection when our valks fail - Heh, although relevant, the analogies are getting ridiculously funny.

What I don't understand is why when someone b*tches and moan about quality (especially when it's Yamato) gushers like you would take it that we're pissing on your investments. We're not. I'm a fan as much as you are. They just need to improve their game.

If Yamato can get it right the first time or AT LEAST not screw up so much, everybody wins.

About my lemony 1/60 YF19, I have never expressed my desire to sell it. This is where YOU and Do not Disturb missed the point. It's not just my 1/60 YF19. My money is spent as well. I am not going to worsen my situation by selling a new broken toy for half price or any amount of money. I can live with one more broken toy. You guys may have the money to spend but don't prey on unfortunate people like this - be above the whole Yamato furore.

I even got a more sincere deal from Eugimon who's willing to trade my lemony 1/60 YF19 (stressmark on fuselage and grey tabs) with his nice 1/72 YF19. But I already have one.

[Godzilla]

Wait a min, you mean to tell me I am getting toys as investments? I never ever stated that. If I did so, then I have no business getting these.

I dont want your yf-19. My point is that you said you dont sell toys that are deemed broken. I have seen toys on ebay and here go for sale. You can get half or more. I am sure the yf-19 would be snatched up.

What I dont understand (and the point you missed) is that we have gone over these points well beyond its shelf life. I never by means say Yamato is perfect. Sure they have problems. My Point: This b!tch fest has long outlived its welcome. We see the issues so let's move on. Although I see it as minor yet you think it is major. So we have difference in opinion on that but it is a toy. I am saying this isnt a perfect world yet everyone wants what they buy to be perfect. Has anyone bought a perfect house? Car? If you want perfect, you have been watching way too many Walgreen's commercials.

BTW 757 and 737 are not govt projects, they are civilian contracts. AA, United, Delta, British and other airlines like them buys from Boeing. They are consumers as well.

[rotorhead]

people can buy what they want to buy, but complaining about a broken brand new item is totally legit in my book. i had bought a $16 transformer and took it home only to realize it had a broken arm. i took it back to the point of purchase, and it was cheerfully replaced with an unbroken one. people should vote with their wallets. if you want to pay $200 for a broken brand new toy, go right ahead. more power to ya! however, i won't. from what i've read, i seriously doubt i'll pick up a yf-19. personally, i don't see a reason to buy a brand new flawed item. maybe yamato would start paying more attention to what they sell if others did the same.

[Twoducks]

I'm sorry, but I side with the whiners here (called unsatisfied customers in some places). After all, they actually paid for the product; they aren't talking about 2D line art accuracy. Minor as the problems may be the fact is that if I buy a 2nd release YF-19 I'll pay the same these guys paid but I'll get a better toy. Doesn’t seem fair to me.

In exchange for getting the toy early (and just that), first release buyers pay to become toy testers. Then, as a way of giving thanks to first release supporters, they get the chance to buy four thin pieces of plastic and a tube that light up... for the same price as the meaty VF-1 FP. Not even a crummy gummy hand that could hold the gunpod like a stick.

And thank goodness that there are unsatisfied customers… no, wait “whiners†that bring up constantly the minor and mayor problems they have with their legally made purchases. Remember the floppy arms of the VF-0S? Well, to Graham it wasn’t such a big deal but people kept whining and whining so he told Yamato about the whining and now the VF-0A has tighter arms. If I buy a second release VF-0S, I’ll get a tighter toy that won’t loose an arm.

It’s great that Yamato makes Macross toys when nobody else does, but they make them because they make money, not because they are doing us a favour. And costumers can complain all they want when their purchase does not reach the level it could have easily reached and WILL reach when it gets reissued (as has happened time and time again with Yamato).

[eugimon]

well said.

[Aegis!]

Ditto.

Can´t argue with that.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

....and hopefully all this whining = better materials, future fixes etc. Like you guys I don't think it is unreasonable to expect a quality checked masterpiece grade level toy. Yeah it is a toy but we do go after the yamato's for that reason: to get as good as they can make of a mecha that is usually out of the price range of kids who pester thier parents. (ie aimed right at the adult collector)

But with aiming at that market you also got to expect that adults have higher standards too. I'm sure there are just as many people who complain about the takara mpc starscream as there are with other recent yammy valks in large scale. You just might not see them if you only hang out at a maross board. The fans are usually the most strict critics. I am a big fan of the mospeada legioss but didn't actually buy one. That doesn't mean I should be happy that I will never get to own one that doesn't have to have problems and that toynami is the only choice for them.

We all want that "dream" toy. If it is possible to get it, then better to voice your negative opinions on all the little tiny flaws than just say "ok I accept it is crap but will buy it anyway. Let's move onto the next valk now.." and then have all the releases rushed out without checking them. It's possible to have your cake (a beautifully sculpted transforming mecha) and eat it. (something that feels at least as good as the vf-1)

No one said it was supposed to be easy, (they are very complex toys) but that doesn't stop us from wanting it even if it isn't perfect at first. I do agree the complaints threads need to sink to the bottom though. But that will come in time when the "complaints about complainers" also stop repeating themselves and not allowing the thread to sink.

1. someone complains

2. someone complains they've heard the complaints and wish them to stop whining

3. complainers respond to that saying it's thier right to complain.

4. the people who are sick of complaints say not to buy it or else shut up

5. people say they want to buy it, just in some fixed form instead

6. fixed version comes out

7. anti-complainers gain benefits from the improvements along with the complainers

In the grand scheme of things, the complaints will die down after a time as people's wallets heal so don't worry. In the meantime noobs who didn't expect the problems will come into the forum and find these threads actually helpful and informative. Thats how I knew about the probs with early toynamis MPCs. For those with no problems, they have nothing to complain about so you won't hear much from them. IT would be natural for these people to think the whiners have no solid basis for thier negative comments. But to that I say: how do you know unless you see it from thier perspective? Freedom to voice the complaint is important if we are to give some useful feedback to yamato so they can at least keep some of the concerns fans have in mind on other releases. Once they get a perfect record (not many complainers anymore for vf-1 these days for example) then things will get quiet.

But having said all this, all companies make mistakes: I don't think yamato intentionally seeks to ignore things and deliberately seeks to ruin your life, I think it is more a case of they were not aware of the problem and would have not released it if they had foreseen these probs to begin with. Can they do something about it? Yeah. Will they do something about it? We will all know when reviews for the next releases come out and impressions for them are out. Most of my yamato purchases are informed purchases where I have read reviews beforehand and gathered as much info as possible before deciding to buy anything. In the end yamato will benefit in the long term from any improvements they make themselves thanks to some feedback gained from those with toys that have the genuine problems in them. (whether they be minor or major)

So to all those people who say: "I've sworn off yamato forever" I say "give them a chance and read the reviews first"

For those who say: "don't buy first releases" I say "not if you want to wait, some people are anxious, may as well let them have the freedom to do this if they want. It's thier money, it won't hurt you"

For those who complain: I say "do something about it through a fix, give us a detailed review with pics, and/or show us the problem you have and where the damage is. Some might be more severe than others. It just might be there is a slight trick to locking something in place or something. As an example before I even transformed the monster, I looked at all the transformation guides online first so I wouldn't mistransform or damage certain parts that look complex like the leg and knee section which looks very complicated the first time."

Edited February 18, 2007 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Ultra Leader]

Hmm...I can't say that I know very much about this VF 19 toy, but from the sounds of things, the standard/quality of this product is poor. More worrying is the fact that the problems associated with the said poor standard is rather widespread. The reason why disgruntled members have a lot of weight and absolute legitimacy in their complaints is because the 'toy' is rather expensive. Actually very expensive. I certainly didn't think toys like this would cost that much...$100 + USD! Maybe they shouldn't even be classified as toys, but collector items.

Consumers paying this sort of money should expect and are most definitely entitled to a 'certain' degree of quality and high standard...something there seems to be a disturbing lack of in this particular Yamato product, according to this thread. The golden rule of consumerism: "You get what you pay for." But for some odd reason, that gold rule doesn't seem to apply here...why?

The whole 'Stress mark' thing is more than likely the result of poor manufacturing practice. (Are these toys all hand made or manufactured via automation?) In this case it's up to the individual consumer's goodwill to overlook the imperfections or resolve to have something done about them. The reported problems regarding 'breakages whilst transforming' are clearly a product issue and cannot be overlooked. Regardless-manufacturers/retailers have a responsibility of selling quality products to customers.

If Yamato didn't know about these flaws to begin with (More rigourous Quality Control would be in order.) then ok...afflicted customers should be allowed to have their purchases replaced/fixed or refunded. It should not be the responsibility of the consumer to pay for repairs/replacements.

Yamato knows about these problems now? If they do and if they refuse to correct/address the concerns of disgruntled consumers then they're sitting on a PR time bomb. You cannot make money if you cannot retain your customer base-and you cannot retain customers if you ignore their greviances. They will simply stop purchasing your products and will simply spend their precious money elsewhere-at worst on a competitor's product instead. Either way, this faulty sort of business mentality will lead to Yamoto's demise.

I'm not sure what the Fair Trade laws are like in the United States/Europe/Japan...but in Australia, the consumer has alot of power. Various manufacturers/retailers often issue voluntary recalls on their products, when they (Said products) are found to be defective/dangerous or are even 'perceived' to be a potential defect waiting to happen. Why?

In the case of motor vehicles the defects are usually safety orientated...but in other products it has to do with 'Customer satisfaction' and Company/Product image. I.E. to keep the customers/consumers happy. To maintain faith and goodwill.

Companies/manufacturers/retailers spend millions of dollars (Not sure about Yamato) on advertising campaigns just to get consumers 'interested' in their products...there's no guarantee that consumers will be moved to respond! Companies/manufacturers/retailers therefore would have a great interest in ensuring that their customers are satisfied/happy. PR!!! Good Public Relations = Better chance at selling products. If Yamato doesn't have the means to advertise it's product then it'd be doubly important for them to get their act together...as these sorts of companies rely on the 'word of mouth' or 'referred to by a friend' type marketing strategy.

From what I've gathered, Macross World Forums is home to some fiercely loyal Macross fans...it would do Yamato well to take to heart the genuine concerns and misgivings of customers and address them. If these VF 19 toys are breaking when customers are trying to 'transform' them then something is horribly wrong as the main point of these toys are their transformability.

Yamato, don't burry your head in the sand and hope that the problems will go away!!! Improve on your products or lose your customers!!! Thus far I don't collect any VF's etc...from the sounds of things...I don't think I'd be brave enough to start.

Umm...if this post is in the wrong place, Moderators please move it for me, thx!

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

.afflicted customers should be allowed to have their purchases replaced/fixed or refunded.

For macross they can't even if they want to, because of the Harmony Gold thing. Votoms and megazone 23 are ok as far as I know. But this is why I think impressions that highlight these little problems are all the more important in the long run to highlight anything that needs addressing so the future ones benefit from fixes or improvements. For example if you knew about hip breakages on vf11 1/72, you'd probably hold off on a purchase of that and wait for the FP version with the fix to be safe. That info saves you the grief if you are the type who doesn't like fixing stuff for fear you might make something even worse. (also for some things like electronics, if you try to fix something yourself, you will void the warranty, so you are forced to put up with the prob if you are the unlucky early buyer - noisy xbox360s anyone?)

Edited February 18, 2007 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker