Ghost in the Shell Live Action - March 31, 2017

[Keith]

I'm gonna say get over it. I take bigger issue with Chinese & Korean people being cast as Japaneze characters (Looking at you Memoirs of a Geisha) than this.

[JetJockey]

2nd & 3rd book, yes, IMO. See here.

Thanks.

ScarJo was obviously chosen for the following reasons:

1) She's a star at the moment, thus a hot property.

2) She's experienced playing a similar secret agent/action character (Black Widow in the Marvel movies).

3) She's got big tits, same as Major Kusanagi.

Nuff said!

Graham

Rhona Mitra checks those three points. Although she's not as big of a star. She is more of an action star compared to Scarlett. And I still think she's physically closer to Mokoto than Scarlett. I bet Dreamworks will spend more money marketing Ghost in the Shell compared to the budgets of the action movies with Rhona Mitra. Also, if they are basing this off the original movie, Rhona's age shouldn't matter as I'm sure everyone knows the ending twist.

Don't forget that booty!!!

Rhona's isn't bad either.

I found someone mention Appleseed somewhere. Scarlett could play Deunan and there wouldn't be any backlash. Appleseed is probably around equal to Ghost in the Shell in terms of mass audience awareness. They have similar futuristic Cyberpunk settings and characters. And they wouldn't need to make so many major changes.

[Keith]

No, GitS is WAY more known here than Appleseed.

[JetJockey]

Ghost in the Shell is more known among anime and comic geeks. But for the larger general audience that they are most likely going for with this movie. I would assume Ghost in the Shell and Appleseed are both two unknowns.

I have a feeling that when Hollywood remakes or changes Asian stuff like an Oldboy, The Ring, Edge of Tomorrow, The Departed, etc. It's to get a different audience than the people that would watch a foreign film with subtitles.

[Keith]

Actually, I'd bet that GitS is much better known by non-anime fans than Appleseed will ever be. The Matrix borrowing the opening cypher style scroll from the first movie alone probably puts it in a higher awareness than Akira. Stand Alone Complex running on CN is another big factor.

[aerocombatpilot]

Thanks.

Rhona Mitra checks those three points. Although she's not as big of a star. She is more of an action star compared to Scarlett. And I still think she's physically closer to Mokoto than Scarlett. I bet Dreamworks will spend more money marketing Ghost in the Shell compared to the budgets of the action movies with Rhona Mitra. Also, if they are basing this off the original movie, Rhona's age shouldn't matter as I'm sure everyone knows the ending twist.

Rhona's isn't bad either.

True, Rhona's is nice, and I think she's got a little more up-top that Scarlet! However, I would like to see Scarlet in one the Major's outfits!

[Keith]

Eww, Rhona Mitra has a mannish face, and fake lookin' tits, no thank you.

[JB0]

Eww, Rhona Mitra has a mannish face, and fake lookin' tits, no thank you.

And Kusanagi had fake tits, then got a man's body at the end of the comics. Match made in heaven.

[JetJockey]

Actually, I'd bet that GitS is much better known by non-anime fans than Appleseed will ever be. The Matrix borrowing the opening cypher style scroll from the first movie alone probably puts it in a higher awareness than Akira. Stand Alone Complex running on CN is another big factor.

I thought about Ghost in the Shell on Cartoon Network. But that was late night. The mass audience isn't really watching for that. Both Appleseed and Ghost in the Shell have around the same amount of movies and TV shows. Sure The Matrix was heavily influenced by Ghost in the Shell right down to the shots used. But to the mass audience maybe they know that in passing due to watching promotional material or making of stuff on the DVDs. It's still probably around equal as I thought originally. Or in the +/- 3% area. And I doubt the marketing of Ghost in the Shell will say "the movie that influenced The Matrix." They got Scarlett to help push the movie. She could do just as well with Appleseed.

[electric indigo]

The artificial mind and human-machine merging of GITS fits much better to contemporary themes than Appleseed's human-robot conflicts, which always have been little more than a backdrop for B-Movie action material.

Anyway, they're late to the party. The best time for a live-action GITS would have been ten years ago.

[Black Valkyrie]

Ghost in the Shell movie adaptation casting angers fans !

[peter]

Ghost in the Shell movie adaptation casting angers fans !

Like nobody knew that was going to happen, lol!

[Dynaman]

Like nobody knew that was going to happen, lol!

And the people making the film should not care if all 10 of us are angry.

[areaseven]

Ghost in the Shell movie adaptation casting angers fans !

Edited February 18, 2015 by areaseven

[mechaninac]

There are very few things in this world more entertaining to witness than unbridled fanboy indignation (it's always so devoid of grounded objectivity), and to see if their collective tantrum actually has any effect.

Edited February 18, 2015 by mechaninac

[azrael]

Ghost in the Shell movie adaptation casting angers fans !

Would it kill the author of that article to link to the petition and the blog post he mentions?

[electric indigo]

Fixed.

[JB0]

Would it kill the author of that article to link to the petition and the blog post he mentions?

It might!

And apparently, the petition writer also believes the franchise started with the anime movie, so... pbbbbth.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/683/366/733/dreamworks-dont-whitewash-japanese-films/ There's the petition, anyways.

[technoblue]

Wow.

I think that "red carpet" pic on the petition site has me even more interested in seeing Johansson play Major Kusanagi.

[Negotiator]

There are some actresses that have been mentioned here that could probably fit the role better but at the same time, Scarlett is not bad by any means (maybe a little too short) and the studio putting up the money to make the movie would like their money back with some profit.

[peter]

So...........how would MW members react if SJ was cast in the role of Minmei in a live action Macross? Or maybe have Tom Cruise cast for the role of Ichijo Hikaru (not Rick Hunter)?

[Mog]

^^1. I've never really heard ScarJo sing (barely recall the karaoke scenes in Lost in Translation).

2. Cruise is way too damn old to play Hik'.

ScarJo playing the Major? Considering a lot of her recent film roles, I can see why she'd be considered for the part.

[JetJockey]

I thought about this casting a bit more. Everyone always has a different point of view or reasons for doing something. Every argument always can be seen from different sides. But with the Ghost in the Shell casting, every single reason is flawed. The main reasons that I’ve seen people use are the following.

1. The material needs Scarlett for investors, to get the so called green light, find an audience, and be profitable.

Ghost in the Shell is one of the best anime movies and TV series. It’s comparable and similar to Blade Runner in terms of artistic importance. If something like Ghost in the Shell can’t get a movie on the material alone then something is wrong with Hollywood.

Also, since when does every movie have to be profitable? Not every movie is profitable. It would be nice if every movie was a guaranteed hit. A handful of known franchises are and will continue to be profitable. But many movies flop or under perform. It’s not like those movies didn’t have movie stars or marketing to support them. Although I just found out that DreamWorks isn’t as financially stable as I thought. So maybe they can’t take that much risk on movies.

2. Scarlett played this sort of role before.

This is true. But there are people called actresses. They are supposed to be good enough to become a character. The director is supposed to work with them to create that character on screen. Not to simply pick an actress because they have played played a role before no matter how good. If anything they should try to cast someone different because Scarlett already played similar roles.

3. The character is a cyborg so it shouldn’t matter. And it’s simply a futuristic cop movie.

But she’s originally Japanese going by her name and a cyborg created by a future Japanese company in a future Asian city working for a future Japanese Intelligence squad. Her name isn’t Melissa or some other American / European name. How can you be true to the material and change all that? When they attempt to sell this movie they will say the story is true to the material even with all the stuff they will change. But it won’t be.

I’m signing the petition. It might not help. And I do think Scarlett is a cool actress. I wish she would put her star power behind Appleseed. Or Danger Girl, an American comic that would be similar and more fun than the sort of dark spy characters she’s played. She can get some of her Hollywood actress friends to play the other girls.

Actors and actresses do talk about not wanting to get type cast in the same role over and over. Anyway, maybe if the people that sign don’t go to the movie in the opening weeks. If they wait and only watch it on cable. Then maybe it will show Hollywood not to take the easy path with future projects. That’s what I’m going to do if and when they continue this route.

So...........how would MW members react if SJ was cast in the role of Minmei in a live action Macross? Or maybe have Tom Cruise cast for the role of Ichijo Hikaru (not Rick Hunter)?

Scarlett as Minmei would be bad too. Tom Cruise as Rick Hunter I wouldn't have a problem with. I grew up with Robotech and didn't get the Hikaru name until DYRL.

[JB0]

So...........how would MW members react if SJ was cast in the role of Minmei in a live action Macross? Or maybe have Tom Cruise cast for the role of Ichijo Hikaru (not Rick Hunter)?

I'd laugh.

I mean, I'd have low expectations to start, but could the movie's casting GET any worse? Those two should CLEARLY be playing Misa and Roy Focker!

3. The character is a cyborg so it shouldn’t matter. And it’s simply a futuristic cop movie.

But she’s originally Japanese going by her name

First chapter of the original comix sez: "Motoko Kusanagi(obviously an alias)"

We don't even know her birth name. She was probably born female, but that's really all we know about her.

and a cyborg created by a future Japanese company in a future Asian city working for a future Japanese Intelligence squad. Her name isn’t Melissa or some other American / European name. How can you be true to the material and change all that?

I don't disagree with you, really.

But the story could, largely, be set anywhere industrialized. It has a less japanese feel than a lot of other things I've seen.

And the Major that Masamune Shirow wrote is as close to a blank slate as you can get. She has no backstory, does not use her birth name, does not use her original face, and by the end of it she's not even the same gender she started the story as. (Tangentally: Can we cast Tom Cruise as the crackhead whose body Batou steals for her?).

When they attempt to sell this movie they will say the story is true to the material even with all the stuff they will change. But it won’t be.

Oh, I doubt it will be, truly I do. But it could be.

And, well, it can't be a worse take on the universe than the first movie was. That movie was a betrayal of everything I expected to see, and I have a deep-seated mistrust of Ghost adaptations because of it.

It's probably to blame for why I never watched SAC or Arise, actually. I was filled with dread when I first heard about SAC, and assurances that "they did it right this time" never really soothed my nerves enough.

I’m signing the petition.

The petition started by someone who thinks the franchise began with the first animated movie, and probably thinks it ended there too. Great.

Also, online petitions don't work. Letter campaigns are far more effective. And, of course, an actual boycott sends a far stronger message, But the vast majority of people who signed that petition were either never going to see it regardless, or are going to see it opening weekend regardless.

Points to you for sticking to your guns, but... don't watch it on cable either.

Don't watch it on Netflix, don't watch it on Bittorrent, don't watch it on your friend's copy that you borrowed. Just DON'T WATCH IT.

That's how you do a boycott. It's not about denial of resources, it's about sending a message. Let them know you won't stand for this, under any circumstances. Let your friend know you won't stand for this if he tries to loan you the disk. Bitch on the internet about how you refuse to watch it because it's racist. Get that message out there, make sure people know this matters to you.

(While I have done very little bitching, I still refuse to watch Amazing Spiderman on account of Sony ruined Spiderman 3, then after everyone involved quit because they were trying to ruin Spiderman 4 even more, they remade the first movie. Not on cable, not on Netflix, not from Redbox, not by borrowing a friend's copy, not off bittorrent. I don't even care that it was apparently a good movie. I refuse to watch it on principle, and I let people know this when it comes up.)

[Jefuemon]

Also, online petitions don't work.

Exactly. Some petitions aren't worth the paper they're printed on, e-petitions are definitely not the worth the electrons they're printed on.

[technoblue]

First chapter of the original comix sez: "Motoko Kusanagi(obviously an alias)"

We don't even know her birth name. She was probably born female, but that's really all we know about her.

That's been the question that I've been mulling over since learning about the on-line petition: Have any of these enraged fans read the manga?

And thank you, JB0, for pointing out how Mamoru Oshii's movies were different! Although, I didn't have a problem with them, they did tweak the story and the characters. Oshii's penchant for philosophy and introspection also made for a very dour, serious retelling. I'm sorry that it wasn't your thing. I can see how it could be a shock, especially if you read the manga first (I saw the movie first, and enjoyed the manga all the more).

Each version of GitS does something different. Even SAC started to embellish details, especially with certain characters to add dimension and give something for the audience to hold onto. I don't think any of the animated releases have been a 1:1 retelling of Masamune Shirow's original story. I do think they are all heavily influenced by it.

Myself, I'm easy when it comes to GitS. I like the cyberpunk setting and I have enjoyed each and every release. I'm curious about whether Dreamworks as a studio can do a good live adaptation. I do think it will be fantastic if this gets done right, and so I wait for more news.

Edited February 19, 2015 by technoblue

[JB0]

And thank you, JB0, for pointing out how Mamoru Oshii's movies were different! Although, I didn't have a problem with them, they did tweak the story and the characters. Oshii's penchant for philosophy and introspection also made for a very dour, serious retelling. I'm sorry that it wasn't your thing. I can see how it could be a shock, especially if you read the manga first (I saw the movie first, and enjoyed the manga all the more).

I might would've enjoyed the movie had I not read the comics first. But I liked the badass gives-no-craps version of the Major WAY more than the depressed introspective Major.

Also the manga had cooler guns. And fuchicomas. Given my tastes when I last saw it, I may've been as disappointed by THAT as I was the angsty Major more introspective philosophical tone.

Each version of GitS does something different. Even SAC started to embellish details, especially with certain characters to add dimension and give something for the audience to hold onto. I don't think any of the animated releases have been a 1:1 retelling of Masamune Shirow's original story. I do think they are all heavily influenced by it.

Myself, I'm easy when it comes to GitS. I like the cyberpunk setting and I have enjoyed each and every release. I'm curious about whether Dreamworks as a studio can do a good live adaptation. I do think it will be fantastic if this gets done right, and so I wait for more news.

And I don't think a 1:1 adaptation would work very well... well, maybe as a high-budget all-the-stops OVA, but ...

It'd go better than some franchises, but as a general rule the things that work in print and the things that work onscreen are very different.

I truly am all for adapting and taking liberties. That doesn't mean I have to liek the end result, of course, but it's better to have tried than to cut out important details and large swaths of setting information to ensure you never deviate from a scene-by-scene, word-for-word recreation of the original material in moving pictures.

And sometimes putting it to animation just reveals flaws that weren't as evident in the print version. Granted, I think some shows have been IMPROVED by people having a minute or two of conversation in the time it takes them to throw a single punch, but... it's still something that shouldn't happen most of the time. (And it's entirely possible in some of these that the author simply expected the reader to fill in the blanks and didn't write down EVERY punch that was thrown, but the TV adaptation adheres too slavishly to the scene as written).

Anyways, I'm rambling now.

I have low hopes for the Hollywood adaptation, but casting is not at all a concern. I will be happily surprised if it winds up being a decent and thoughtful adaptation.

Now, this is not to say there are not PROBLEMS with Hollywood's whitewashing of damn near every story that comes through the town, as it happens to be a rather large problem(and much more pervasive than one single instance of a character with a japanese name being played by a white person).

Just that it is rarely a problem to the actual story being told, and this specific character is one of the few instances where it could be justified in-continuity.

[peter]

1. SJ as Minmei (regardless of the ability to sing)

Tom Cruise as Ichijo Hikaru

Samuel L Jackson as Roy

Ron Jeremy as the Captain

DIRECTED BY MICHAEL BAY

[sketchley]

(While I have done very little bitching, I still refuse to watch Amazing Spiderman on account of Sony ruined Spiderman 3, then after everyone involved quit because they were trying to ruin Spiderman 4 even more, they remade the first movie. Not on cable, not on Netflix, not from Redbox, not by borrowing a friend's copy, not off bittorrent. I don't even care that it was apparently a good movie. I refuse to watch it on principle, and I let people know this when it comes up.)

Heh. I'm refusing to watch the movie, too - but for different reasons. It was too soon for a reboot (even my 12 year old students were complaining about that at the time!)

That's been the question that I've been mulling over since learning about the on-line petition: Have any of these enraged fans read the manga?

Fully agreed. It doesn't matter who is playing the *main* instance of the character, as she changes bodies all the time. Just get different actresses to play the different bodies. It can be done, and done well (ref: "Inception").

Each version of GitS does something different. Even SAC started to embellish details, especially with certain characters to add dimension and give something for the audience to hold onto. I don't think any of the animated releases have been a 1:1 retelling of Masamune Shirow's original story. I do think they are all heavily influenced by it.

Agreed. I really liked the movie versions - probably because they took a philosophical approach to what's going on (like how they take the time to develop the epic-ness of the encounter in "Alien"). The TV series, on the other hand, has other merits. It has a lot of the "fun" things that weren't in the movie, but also develop things in new directions. I really liked their exploration of cybernetics and disease (and diseases specifically related to cybernetics). It was something that the manga was just starting to dabble into, but didn't have the time (err, page count) to fully delve into.

[JB0]

Heh. I'm refusing to watch the movie, too - but for different reasons. It was too soon for a reboot (even my 12 year old students were complaining about that at the time!)

That was definitely an issue, but I viewed it as more a symptom than a cause.

That said, I was pretty dubious about the need to "begin at the beginning" the FIRST time around. I felt like just about everyone going in already knew that Peter Parker was bitten by a radioactive arachnid that gave him the abilities of a spider, and that when his uncle was gunned down by a criminal he had opted not to stop he learned that with great power comes great responsibility.

They sold me on it, though. It came out quite nicely, and I retracted my complaints. Which made me all the more dubious when they decided to redo it.

[technoblue]

(While I have done very little bitching, I still refuse to watch Amazing Spiderman on account of Sony ruined Spiderman 3, then after everyone involved quit because they were trying to ruin Spiderman 4 even more, they remade the first movie. Not on cable, not on Netflix, not from Redbox, not by borrowing a friend's copy, not off bittorrent. I don't even care that it was apparently a good movie. I refuse to watch it on principle, and I let people know this when it comes up.)

Heh. I'm refusing to watch the movie, too - but for different reasons. It was too soon for a reboot (even my 12 year old students were complaining about that at the time!)

Oh boy. I missed the train wreck that was Spiderman 3. I did see the first two McGuire films and both Garfield films, and I agree that rebooting Peter Parker's character a second time for Garfield was completely unnecessary and wasted precious screen time. Sony had a good supporting cast for both ASM films. I would have liked to see better writing build those actors up, but what's done is done.

And I think that is my main concern with a live action GitS movie. I wouls like to see Dreamworks hire writers that can use the story elements that exist in the wild today and give us something cool that builds on that resource. I would hate to see another reboot that spends 2 to 3 hours reintroducing the members of Section 9.

[JetJockey]

I'd laugh.

I mean, I'd have low expectations to start, but could the movie's casting GET any worse? Those two should CLEARLY be playing Misa and Roy Focker!

First chapter of the original comix sez: "Motoko Kusanagi(obviously an alias)"

We don't even know her birth name. She was probably born female, but that's really all we know about her.

I don't disagree with you, really.

But the story could, largely, be set anywhere industrialized. It has a less japanese feel than a lot of other things I've seen.

And the Major that Masamune Shirow wrote is as close to a blank slate as you can get. She has no backstory, does not use her birth name, does not use her original face, and by the end of it she's not even the same gender she started the story as. (Tangentally: Can we cast Tom Cruise as the crackhead whose body Batou steals for her?).

Oh, I doubt it will be, truly I do. But it could be.

And, well, it can't be a worse take on the universe than the first movie was. That movie was a betrayal of everything I expected to see, and I have a deep-seated mistrust of Ghost adaptations because of it.

It's probably to blame for why I never watched SAC or Arise, actually. I was filled with dread when I first heard about SAC, and assurances that "they did it right this time" never really soothed my nerves enough.

The petition started by someone who thinks the franchise began with the first animated movie, and probably thinks it ended there too. Great.

Also, online petitions don't work. Letter campaigns are far more effective. And, of course, an actual boycott sends a far stronger message, But the vast majority of people who signed that petition were either never going to see it regardless, or are going to see it opening weekend regardless.

Points to you for sticking to your guns, but... don't watch it on cable either.

Don't watch it on Netflix, don't watch it on Bittorrent, don't watch it on your friend's copy that you borrowed. Just DON'T WATCH IT.

That's how you do a boycott. It's not about denial of resources, it's about sending a message. Let them know you won't stand for this, under any circumstances. Let your friend know you won't stand for this if he tries to loan you the disk. Bitch on the internet about how you refuse to watch it because it's racist. Get that message out there, make sure people know this matters to you.

(While I have done very little bitching, I still refuse to watch Amazing Spiderman on account of Sony ruined Spiderman 3, then after everyone involved quit because they were trying to ruin Spiderman 4 even more, they remade the first movie. Not on cable, not on Netflix, not from Redbox, not by borrowing a friend's copy, not off bittorrent. I don't even care that it was apparently a good movie. I refuse to watch it on principle, and I let people know this when it comes up.)

They would be better as Lisa and Roy. I didn’t think about that.

I haven’t read the manga in a while. I have it sitting here as I intend on reading it again before reading Human Error Processor which I haven’t read. After that it’s the Appleseed mangas. I’ve only read the first one and that was a long time ago back when it was originally released here in the States. With Motoko’s character I go by the movie and SAC which gives more background to her origins. And whether her name is an alias or not I think the fact that it’s Japanese is what matters.

When I first saw the movie the locations were very Asian to me. I never read the manga before seeing the movie. I go through dry periods with anime. I remember seeing the movie in mid 90s. Someone gave it to me to watch. I was hooked and went to purchase it the next day. The movie is very Blade Runner. Ghost in the Shell even has the same building structure in the opening that is in Blade Runner’s final battle scene. Innocence is even more of a Blade Runner style detective story.

I’m not big on following the original story exactly. Watchmen was almost like that. I liked it. Some people still had problems with the smallest changes. The first two Harry Potter movies are close to the books and they just feel like movie versions of the books and not something more. That’s probably why most like Potter 3 the most. It’s the one that tried to do more and removed what was necessary without damaging a lot of the story. SAC is a lot closer to the manga compared to the movies. At the end of 2nd gig they tie it into the movie. Although I guess they didn’t know they were going to make Solid State Society at that time as they tied that into the movie as well. Still there is more thought about the series as a whole in SAC compared to Arise which doesn’t really leave a lasting impression.

I think the online petition worked for that Terminator TV show. At least for the first season. I think there was a petition for Dollhouse or something else that worked too. I don’t know about movies. It probably won’t work for something this scale unless they get into the million signatures. That would make them reconsider.

I think as long as you watch a movie for free it’s ok. You should see Amazing Spider-Man. Or at least watch the effect sequences on youtube since they are the best part of those movies. I feel whatever Ghost in the Shell movie they make will have good effects and I don’t want to punish the artists. Even this recent Avengers Age of Ultron artwork makes me think that Scarlett will look good as Motoko or whatever they end up calling her.

But I still don’t agree with it. Rhona Mitra would look just as cool. So would many other actresses. She doesn’t have to be Japanese. But at least Eurasian or Eastern. They didn’t even consider Zhang Ziyi it seems. I thought she was a popular action star a while back. And if they are going to Americanize Ghost in the Shell, why not just make a new cyberpunk character? Would that be so difficult since they are betting on Scarlett to bring an audience. They aren’t making this movie for fans of the series. So who cares if it’s called Ghost in the Shell.

[JB0]

Even this recent Avengers Age of Ultron artwork makes me think that Scarlett will look good as Motoko or whatever they end up calling her.

To be fair, Scarlett looks good no matter what role she's playing. Let's be honest here.

And if they are going to Americanize Ghost in the Shell, why not just make a new cyberpunk character? Would that be so difficult since they are betting on Scarlett to bring an audience. They aren’t making this movie for fans of the series. So who cares if it’s called Ghost in the Shell.

And here we get to the root problem. Holllywood doesn't want to make new properties. They don't want to make anything without a proven track record amd built-in fanbase. Everything has to be a remake, a sequel, or an adaptation. Preferably a sequel to a remake of an adaptation.

But at the same time, they want them sanitized, polished, and just like every other big-budget blockbuster, completely devoid of anything that made the original work compelling.

And then they tune them for maximum mass-market appeal by matching them to a checklist of "things done in recent blockbusters" that omits points like "compelling original story" and "superb acting", but includes things like "they froze everything and spun the camera around"(I know it's dated, but the number of completely pointless "bullet-time" effects that showed up in the years following the Matrix was just absurd, and really was why I started noticing the checklist in the first place.)

They aren't alone in this practice, but... they might be the worst about it.

[JetJockey]

I remember seeing Underworld and thinking how much of that was inspired by The Matrix. The opening shootout is right out of The Matrix and Selene might as well be Trinity.

After the success of Inception I'm kind of surprised that they didn't try to Americanize Paprika. That's an anime that I wouldn't have a problem seeing in an American or European setting. But I'm sure many of the more out there anime themes scared whatever producers away.

[aerocombatpilot]

To be fair, Scarlett looks good no matter what role she's playing. Let's be honest here.

Agreed! Her Booty looks good to me!!!