Yamato's Fragile?

[eugimon]

Transformers are not meant to be the same level as a Valk. They're neither designed, nor intended for the same market. And despite that i think some of their recent mainstream works has been exceptional. And as people mentioned; Alternators and masterpiece have both been very well designed.

i totally understand people frustrations here. U ask for something and u pay for it and then u dont get it. believe me I was devestated to find my zeros had damage, partly because i think they're a STUNNING toy.

and yet ihave a lot of Yamato. I have never had a serious issue with a 1/48/ SOme seaping and Maxes leg, but itsbeen like that for a very long time and deosnt seem to be causing me any problems. My 19 is fine. my Q Rau is fine. All my 1/60's were fine. I accept there have been some probelms, especially with the 0's and 19. but dont go around saying that everything they do will suck, because thats not correct.

I agree with you... the reason I'm so mad at yamato about the VF-0 shoulders is because I love the VF-0 toy. I love the VF-0 design and I think the 1/60 is a great representation of it. I WANT to show it, and display and play with it... but the way it is now, I have it in the box, in my clost gathering dust until NB4M can get us those re-engineered shoulders. it should NOT be this way.

BTW, my SS came with a bent tail spike and it has a bunch of stressed joints after being transformed 2 times... my reaction, meh.

Edited January 25, 2007 by eugimon

[HoveringCheesecake]

Transformers are not meant to be the same level as a Valk.

but dont go around saying that everything they do will suck, because thats not correct.

I'm going to disagree with you there. What do you mean not the same level? Aimed at collectors? Price? Engineering? I think that the Masterpiece line meets all that criteria.

And I didn't say that everything they do will suck. I just expect something next to flawless when I pay this much.

I'm eagerly awaiting a fixed VF-0S release. I'd have purchased one already but the joint problem has me more than a little concerned since it seems more widespread.

As for MP Starscream... don't even get me started. You'll find plenty of people that think the HFH screwed that one up and I agree. I had it on preorder, but I canceled it when I saw the final version.

[promethuem5]

its not so much downplay(it can be preceive it that way, though its hard to determine ones tone over the internet), its just people overreacting. these are toys afterall, overpriced yes, but its not the end of the world and people don't need to make mountains out of molehills.

now granted some people can have issues that others are lucky to avoid but the fact is, nothing in life is perfect and everything is a compromise.

the sooner people can accept this, the easier it will be to deal with things that aren't to your liking. i.e. crooked gunpod, landing gear, tight fuselage, rubber seepage etc.

the question to ask yourself is, is there single company out there that makes transformable toys that are anywhere near the level of yamato?

Thank you... for both points. First off, my age or how I aquire my toys (I do work, yes, so cool it) should not affect people's view on my opinion, because that is just unfair, and second, nothing I have said is supposed to come off as pretentious or down-putting, I'm merely trying to point out that not everyone gets a consistent set of lemons, plenty of people end up with good solid products here, and I'm willing to bet for the msot part, the good ones are the majority. There's more than one person here who sorely overreact everytime some minor thing goes wrong with one of their toys, and the main point I try to re-enforce is that that is NOT the average, and people should find more than one opinion about the toy before swearing off everything made by Yamato (because, I swear this is how some people react...) What people fail to understand here is that this is a specialty niche market provided by a niche market toy company, and they can't always compete in some aspects with a humungous company like say, Takara. People also miss the fact that while there are occasionally some minor slip ups, noone else is or is going to be making these designs, and yet once again, I don't see anyone selling off their 19s real fast because of some minor issue, so at the end of the day, alot of poeple here must have much bigger mouths than the problems precipitate, because there's an awful lot of complaining over some minor (and I hate to say it, but except for a few rare cases like David H's second 19, completely fixable with a minimum of work and a screw driver.)

[Beware of Blast]

One thing to keep in mind though and this is not meant to excuse Yamato's recent flubs.Takara is a much bigger company that has been in the transforming robot game for a lot longer.

No offense to you, but I disagree. Yamato's flubs are not recent. As I have pointed out in the other 1/60 YF19 thread, Yamato's been unable to make a perfect toy ever since they start out back in the day. Every release would spring us AT LEAST one unpleasant surprise, however minor. We even get problems on the Yamato 1/48 VF1s rehashes.

And that Takara being a bigger company and all reasoning is as they say in management, "the economics of volume"... ie:- The bigger you are, the better are your resources, options, quantity, quality etc, etc... - I think is pure bull shite - That's just a professional sounding excuse that managers use to report to their bosses / shareholders to cover their arses.

The point is, it's either ya got it, or ya don't. Yamato don't got it, is cuz they assumed that their job is done after they've gotten their CAD drawings and sculpt approved by Kawamori and Co.

They obviously did not work hard enough on ensuring Build Quality and Finishing, unfortunately for us

Edited January 25, 2007 by Beware of Blast

[drifand]

The point is, it's either ya got it, or ya don't. Yamato don't got it, is cuz they assumed that their job is done after they've gotten their CAD drawings and sculpt approved by Kawamori and Co.

They obviously did not work hard enough on ensuring Build Quality and Finishing, unfortunately for us

AMEN.

It is fantastic that Yamato has moved on from hand-drawings to CAD for designing their transforming toys, but CAD alone will not automagically resolve engineering problems that arise from LACK OF FORESIGHT and FAILURE to consider materials usage and mass production issues.

How else to account for the tragic metal fatigue and snap-off shoulders on the otherwise crisply sculpted and molded Garland? How else to account for the low tolerances on the BP8 hinge? The VF-0 shoulders?

All the new CAD'd toys LOOK and FIT together fantastically! It just makes your heart hurt even more when something breaks because Yamato didn't think harder about HOW to make it last. 'Being lucky' should never be part of the sticker price.

[EXO]

I agree with BoB... I thought the trade off for low production runs were the increased prices? Takara and Hasbro can sell their toys for less by making more and Yamato charges more because they manufacture less... by charging more that should mean we can expect the same quality.

I'm paying extra to eat your excuses Yamato! Stop giving us expensive pieces of shits! I haven't bought any valks in a while and I'm kinda glad, I'm waiting to see if there's a second run of YF-19s and Vf-0As. And will definitely skip the first run SV-51. If that means I'm not supporting Yamato so that they can ensure future releases then they are still to blame... get your crap together...

[nugundamII]

I am loosing confidence in Yamato Products!!! I just purchased the VF-1J Stealth with Strike Booster pack

and the flimsiness of the plastic is disappointing. For a $200 plus CDN dollar toy I cant help the feeling I have that I got reamed again!

The small hinge that is supposed to hold the folded wing pack to allow you to add the booster does not have enough strength to hold the booster upright and within seconds launches off like a takara missile! I have purchased many Yamato products over the years and have steadily been getting more disappointed. Which is why I did not buy the first production run of the YF 19. I still believe that the first (2nd Production run) Di- Cast set of their Macross Plus toys were their best.

When I bought the Koeing Monster for $250 CDN the bottom Cockpit of the ship mode does not stay flush under the chin of the gerwalk mode and just hangs there. The whole thing is a lumpy mess of plastic!

I cant believe people would poo on Toyanamis valks and little on Yamatos. Toyanamis 1/100 scale valks are much more studier and we still have to wait how they incorporate the booster packs, but I bet that I wont have to crazy glue pieces to hold them in place!

As a collector of transforming mecha/robots especially transformers, quality wise I would rate these companies as follows

Takara ie MP,THS line, Binaltech, Micromen, Robot Masters, BW (all lines), MP Liokaiser, main line transformers

Bandai SOC line, ( I have the Aquarion, Dancouga and Unit 1 Evangelion and all are spitting images of Quality and engineering design.)

Hasbro ie Main line transformers, BW, Titaniums, Movie toys, etc

Toynami ie Robotech valks, MP Voltron, 1/100 Macross veritechs

Yamato - what I own... VF-0 1/60, (2nd production run)all 3 Macross 1/72 die-cast valks, transforming Escaflowne, 1/60 Garland, Koeing Monster, Die-cast 1/72 VF-1 Hikaru, Vf-1J Super Strike Stealth 1/48

Here is a list of the Yamato stuff I am disappointed with:

-Escaflowne

-Koeing Monster

-Vf-1J Super Strike Stealth 1/48

-1/60 Garland

thats $800 plus of dispointment there and I think Im done with yamato. AND IM SICK of people saying that Yamato is small company so their prices reflect that fact BULL! There not that small....they sell many different product lines and do quite well with them in Japan.! Hey Yamato.... want my money... how about concentrating on smaller scale products, put back the die-cast! and can it with the huge boxes! (they might save more there alone in production costs and at least get nicer boxes like the Toynami ones)

ok im done with my rant

-

Edited January 25, 2007 by nugundamII

[EXO]

I am loosing confidence in Yamato Products!!! I just purchased the VF-1J Stealth with Strike Booster pack

and the flimsiness of the plastic is disappointing. For a $200 plus CDN dollar toy I cant help the feeling I have that I got reamed again!

The small hinge that is supposed to hold the folded wing pack to allow you to add the booster does not have enough strength to hold the booster upright and within seconds launches off like a takara missile! I have purchased many Yamato products over the years and have steadily been getting more disappointed. Which is why I did not buy the first production run of the YF 19. I still believe that the first (2nd Production run) Di- Cast set of their Macross Plus toys were their best.

-

Are you sure you're putting the tab in all the way, that's seems to be a common mistake among people.

[nugundamII]

Are you sure you're putting the tab in all the way, that's seems to be a common mistake among people.

yes

[Wicked Ace]

Are you sure you're putting the tab in all the way, that's seems to be a common mistake among people.

I know this member already posted "Yes," but a picture would probably help more than one member on here. Admittedly, it isn't really obvious to push in to lock the piece in question into the small bumps.

[jenius]

The small hinge that is supposed to hold the folded wing pack to allow you to add the booster does not have enough strength to hold the booster upright and within seconds launches off like a takara missile!

My CF does this also. Basically the tab isn't rooted well (the indents in the plastic aren't deep enough or something like that) so the pull of the backpack unseats the tab with enough pressure to shoot it. It can be quite the scare 'cause then you have to find it. I can't remember but shouldn't the white neck collar help prevent it though? Anyway, here's how you fix it, you take a piece of Scotch tape, you wrap it around the inside of the tab that becomes a projectile and snip it when you get to the top on the other side. You put the tab now back into the spot it belongs and it will fit much tighter and no longer be able to generate the force to pull it free. Since it's simple tape you can always remove the part and clean the stick-um off it should you need to later.

Edited January 25, 2007 by jenius

[eugimon]

my CF is the same way.

in general, I think the problem is yamato doesn't properly clean/maintain their molds. I was noticing the build quality between my 1st issue hikaru 1a and the later releases... the 1a was just built better. Seam lines were less apparant and everything matched up better and fit together very tightly. On many of the later valks, there's a certain amount of play and there's seam lines here and there... the knee caps are very apparant.

[nugundamII]

My CF does this also. Basically the tab isn't rooted well (the indents in the plastic aren't deep enough or something like that) so the pull of the backpack unseats the tab with enough pressure to shoot it. It can be quite the scare 'cause then you have to find it. I can't remember but shouldn't the white neck collar help prevent it though? Anyway, here's how you fix it, you take a piece of Scotch tape, you wrap it around the inside of the tab that becomes a projectile and snip it when you get to the top on the other side. You put the tab now back into the spot it belongs and it will fit much tighter and no longer be able to generate the force to pull it free. Since it's simple tape you can always remove the part and clean the stick-um off it should you need to later.

thanks I will try that. Hopefully it works. But this is still very disappointing that they wouldn't catch this in quality control since its one of the important parts that holds the booster pack. They could have used plastic posts rather than the metal ones, to attach the booster to the wing pack, it would have taken a lot of the weight out!

[Dante74]

Not really, check this thread

EDIT* Damn, the links to the pics are gone. I'll put them back up when I get home from work tonight.

Tried to find the pics last night but couldn't find them.

I'll start up my old laptop tonight, hopefully they're still on there or on an old backup dvd.

EDIT*

Well, I looked everywhere but can't find them.

Sorry

Edited January 25, 2007 by Dante74

[HoveringCheesecake]

Thank you... for both points. First off, my age or how I aquire my toys (I do work, yes, so cool it) should not affect people's view on my opinion, because that is just unfair, and second, nothing I have said is supposed to come off as pretentious or down-putting, I'm merely trying to point out that not everyone gets a consistent set of lemons, plenty of people end up with good solid products here, and I'm willing to bet for the msot part, the good ones are the majority. There's more than one person here who sorely overreact everytime some minor thing goes wrong with one of their toys, and the main point I try to re-enforce is that that is NOT the average, and people should find more than one opinion about the toy before swearing off everything made by Yamato (because, I swear this is how some people react...) What people fail to understand here is that this is a specialty niche market provided by a niche market toy company, and they can't always compete in some aspects with a humungous company like say, Takara. People also miss the fact that while there are occasionally some minor slip ups, noone else is or is going to be making these designs, and yet once again, I don't see anyone selling off their 19s real fast because of some minor issue, so at the end of the day, alot of poeple here must have much bigger mouths than the problems precipitate, because there's an awful lot of complaining over some minor (and I hate to say it, but except for a few rare cases like David H's second 19, completely fixable with a minimum of work and a screw driver.)

As I said, please don't take offense at my comment on your age. Before you said how old you were in the TF thread I figured you were in your twenties.

The only reason I brought the age up was because you have alot of expensive toys. That's all. I didn't buy my first Valk until I was 18. You joined in 2004, so you were around 14 when you started collecting! Crazy. I wish I had a job like yours.

But still, I disagree with you on the problems with Yamato's products. To each his own.

[rotorhead]

i've got one 1/48 vf-1s, definitely a re-issue (2nd, 3rd, not sure). everything has been fine on it, and i transform it every now and then, like once every week or so. even the tampo skull is nearly straight. so far, so good, except for 2 things. first, the bit on the gun where you would attach the gunstrap has broken, but that was my fault. it felt thin, and when taking off the gunstrap, it broke out. i think i forced it when i shouldn't have. also, the right arm 'cover' has a near break, a fracture if you will. it's awfully close to where the back of the gun would line up when being held. funny thing is, i didn't do anything to that one to develop such a crack. i pay very close attention to the transformation process so as not to break anything, especially after reading all the stuff here. best i can guess is that it already had some minor crackage going on there. it's still not broken all the way through, so i'm not sure if i should superglue it now, or wait till it finally gives way. maybe they should start calling these "toydels", not quite toys, not quite models. but for $120, i'd like it to be a little more durable than an eggshell.

Edited January 25, 2007 by rotorhead

[promethuem5]

Rotorhead, that sounds like a really weird break... could you possibly provide a picture? I don't think I've heard of anyone else's doing that, so I'd kinda like to see it... maybe something to look out for?

As I said, please don't take offense at my comment on your age. Before you said how old you were in the TF thread I figured you were in your twenties.

The only reason I brought the age up was because you have alot of expensive toys. That's all. I didn't buy my first Valk until I was 18. You joined in 2004, so you were around 14 when you started collecting! Crazy. I wish I had a job like yours.

No worries... you just seemed a little excited... I got my first 1/48 when I was 15, and I didn't pay for that, my Roy 1/48, or one of my armor sets, but I've payed for my 1/48 CF, a second Armor Set, the 01, and the 19 (not to mention tons of decals from Devin for them...)

[HoveringCheesecake]

Yah, so you got the equivalent of 3 Yammies for free. Lucky bastard.

Impressive collection for your age for sure though! And I dig your CF custom.

Edited January 26, 2007 by meh_cd

[kensei]

Are you sure you're putting the tab in all the way, that's seems to be a common mistake among people.

Not to mention that you actually need to use the support piece, if you play with your valks that hinge is not sufficient to hold up the FAST Packs.

[jenius]

Another tip is to make absolutely certain you've got the little fin in the back propped back down inside the battloid. If it's stuck sticking out that's a good way to break your BP8.

[eugimon]

Not to mention that you actually need to use the support piece, if you play with your valks that hinge is not sufficient to hold up the FAST Packs.

the support piece doesn't even fit in my CF. the slightest tension and it pops right out.

[kensei]

Yep ok. I pop the head forward out on it's black plate, put in the support piece and then fit the head back in. Tight, but it works better.

[HoveringCheesecake]

Is that support piece needed for fighter mode??

[jenius]

Is that support piece needed for fighter mode??

If you're talking about the neck collar.... obviously not. If you're talking about the tab that holds the backpack down, no, but it helps if you're going to be handling the valk.

[kensei]

I have a lot of them , so I use them even if they don't have the FAST Packs on. It's like a prophylaxis treatment against wearing out the tabs that you have to push past to complete Battroid mode.

[HoveringCheesecake]

If you're talking about the neck collar.... obviously not. If you're talking about the tab that holds the backpack down, no, but it helps if you're going to be handling the valk.

I don't know what it is. I just received my first set of super parts last night and I was left with a black piece in the plastic tray. No clue where it goes... must be the neck collar. I know what the tab is.

[promethuem5]

It sounds like the neck collar to me... it's a grey part, has some tabs on it, looks kind of like a couch if you look at it funny... you just pop the neck plate forward, insert the collar piece so that the tabs wrap around the backpack flap, and put the neck back in place... I don't remember exactly, but I think the instruction pics of this area aren't great... it works like a charm once you get it in there tho.

EDIT: Actually, there's a good picture of the area with the neck collar here:

In my FP review...

Which I forgot about... the neck collar in the FAST packs is white, but the neck collar in the GBP armor is grey... unless I've got those backwards and the review pic is wrong, which is possible.

Edited January 26, 2007 by promethuem5

[HoveringCheesecake]

That's what it is! Thanks. I have the stealth fast packs so the piece is black.

I thought looked like a couch as well.

[promethuem5]

Ahh, so it's black in the stealth set... guess that makes sense. And yeah, you could totally use it as a funky looking couch for the pilot figures... Glad my review pics could help.

[David Hingtgen]

Interesting, I thought they were ALL white, the same shade--because my Milia came with a "valk off-white" instead of a matching "Milia/Max pure white" piece. Kinda annoyed me, it doesn't quite match, even though every other white piece of the valk matches, and doesn't use any Roy or Hikaru off-white pieces.

[promethuem5]

Hmmm... I don't know why they would do that. The one for the GBP was grey to match, and I almost think the LV camod GBP had a matching one, and now the stealth... maybe it hadn't occured to them yet when they released M&M... or maybe they figured it was close enough?

[mister_e]

I believe there are 3 distinct color variations for the support piece:

- White (included with the stand-alone Super/Strike parts and the TV 1J's)

- Dark Gray (included with the standard and LV GBP armors)

- Black (included with stand-alone Stealth Super/Strike parts and Stealth Super VF-1J giftset)

[rotorhead]

Rotorhead, that sounds like a really weird break... could you possibly provide a picture? I don't think I've heard of anyone else's doing that, so I'd kinda like to see it... maybe something to look out for?

yeah, it is a weird one. i've never heard of anyone else having that either. my camera is sick at the moment, but it's easy to describe: right arm cover, the one that opens to allow the hand to fold inside the forearm. the hinge is just below the elbow. the crack is about 1/8" below the hinge. the crack is from the inside, but not all the way through to the outside, so the forearm cover can open using the crack as a hinge. i couldn't see anything in any mode that pushes or rests on that area enough to cause a crack. however, when the gunpod is in hand, the fin on the back of the gunpod is remarkably close to where the crack is. that's the only thing i can think of that could've affected the cover at all. from the outside, you can barely tell there is a crack, as it doesn't show from the outside. i guess i probably should superglue it before it gets worse.... just need to make sure superglue is safe for it. either that or i may get lucky and find someone that's got a spare.

[Scream Man]

all the supports i had were the same white, and I bought a few more of N4BM. Sadly, one of the ones he gave me broke, but that was my faulty for forcing it

[mujuro]

I just bought my first valk, the VF-0S. I am quite disappointed with this purchase. When I pick it up it seems really flimsy in plane mode at least (didn't transform to prevent breaking it). Are they all llike this or are some actually sturdy? It still looks amazing in plane mode though. The tampo printing on it was pretty good tho and the magnets were okay as were the tailfins. Is the 0A much better than the 0S because I am seriously reconsidering my shin 0A preorder. Any thoughts?

Thanks